Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

Don't trust the polls...

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2020/10/11/the-race-for-the-white-house-is-a-little-closer-than-it-looks

is this the shy trump voter people keep saying exists? couldn't get past the first few paragraphs. paywall kicked in. 

The silent Trump voter definitely exists. Half my work meetings someone brings up how Republicans and those who vote for trump are racist. That’s basically what our “diversity trainings” are, It shouldn’t be any surprise that Trump voters are often silent when in mixed company.
Now what I don’t agree with is that transferring into a poll. I don’t see the silent supporter not being honest in a poll.

There are no significant amounts of shy trump voters. This has been debunked numerous times. Biden does just as well with online polls as he does with over the phone polls. If you're "shy" you probably are more likely to lie to a pollster over the phone as opposed to a more anonymous online survey. If there was a more significant difference between these kinds of polls, that would lend credence to this mythology but there isn't much at all. 

And just anecdotally, I have never met a shy Trump voter. Every one I've met is excited to put their Trump fanaticism in your face. If anything, I would bet there are more shy Biden voters out there. 

I’ll have to disagree. When half our staff meetings and nearly all of our diversity trainings (of which we’ve had several since the beginning of the school year) the leaders of the meetings mention republicans and conservatives are racist, they become silent on the topic. Not all obviously. But rather than be labeled a racist for simply being conservative, it’s easier to not engage in the conversation in the work place.
Thats not to say there aren’t silent or shy Biden voters too.

Everyone will have anecdotal incidents like what you are describing. But there is just no statistical evidence to prove that there is a significant amount that will swing an election. This was the case in 2016 and 2018... and all indicators appear 2020 is no different. 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-supporters-arent-shy-but-polls-could-still-be-missing-some-of-them/

Bigger question I have is why are the leaders of your company calling republicans and conservatives racist in your meetings? That seems pretty inappropriate. 

totally

Really? At this point in US history, y'all wonder why this is happening? The party and movement have been hijacked by bad actors to the point at which the terms have become synonymous with racist/racism. I don't know if the party I've voted for on more than a few occasions will ever gain back the respect it once had. And the politicians who continue to use the R moniker but who aren't in line with these bad actors are lambasted as "republicans in name only" or "RINOs." At this point, I feel like it's a losing battle for these old school GOP folks; they should just rebrand, and take all of their convention funds with them. Let the bad actors fund their own assault on democracy and common decency.



Replace "police" with "republicans and conservatives," and I think you're pretty close to what the public discourse is on this these days.

Again, a conservative Supreme Court just decided this week that black (and lower-income) lives don't matter. Quite literally. They won't even be counted among US citizens. Systemic racism.

we have conservatives/republicans here. are you saying, unequivocally, that they are all racists? 

there's quite a few here that I think would rightly be pretty pissed off at that, if in fact that is what you are saying. 

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

Don't trust the polls...

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2020/10/11/the-race-for-the-white-house-is-a-little-closer-than-it-looks

is this the shy trump voter people keep saying exists? couldn't get past the first few paragraphs. paywall kicked in. 

The silent Trump voter definitely exists. Half my work meetings someone brings up how Republicans and those who vote for trump are racist. That’s basically what our “diversity trainings” are, It shouldn’t be any surprise that Trump voters are often silent when in mixed company.
Now what I don’t agree with is that transferring into a poll. I don’t see the silent supporter not being honest in a poll.

There are no significant amounts of shy trump voters. This has been debunked numerous times. Biden does just as well with online polls as he does with over the phone polls. If you're "shy" you probably are more likely to lie to a pollster over the phone as opposed to a more anonymous online survey. If there was a more significant difference between these kinds of polls, that would lend credence to this mythology but there isn't much at all. 

And just anecdotally, I have never met a shy Trump voter. Every one I've met is excited to put their Trump fanaticism in your face. If anything, I would bet there are more shy Biden voters out there. 

I’ll have to disagree. When half our staff meetings and nearly all of our diversity trainings (of which we’ve had several since the beginning of the school year) the leaders of the meetings mention republicans and conservatives are racist, they become silent on the topic. Not all obviously. But rather than be labeled a racist for simply being conservative, it’s easier to not engage in the conversation in the work place.
Thats not to say there aren’t silent or shy Biden voters too.

Everyone will have anecdotal incidents like what you are describing. But there is just no statistical evidence to prove that there is a significant amount that will swing an election. This was the case in 2016 and 2018... and all indicators appear 2020 is no different. 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-supporters-arent-shy-but-polls-could-still-be-missing-some-of-them/

Bigger question I have is why are the leaders of your company calling republicans and conservatives racist in your meetings? That seems pretty inappropriate. 

totally

Really? At this point in US history, y'all wonder why this is happening? The party and movement have been hijacked by bad actors to the point at which the terms have become synonymous with racist/racism. I don't know if the party I've voted for on more than a few occasions will ever gain back the respect it once had. And the politicians who continue to use the R moniker but who aren't in line with these bad actors are lambasted as "republicans in name only" or "RINOs." At this point, I feel like it's a losing battle for these old school GOP folks; they should just rebrand, and take all of their convention funds with them. Let the bad actors fund their own assault on democracy and common decency.



Replace "police" with "republicans and conservatives," and I think your pretty close to what the public discourse is on this these days.

Again, a conservative Supreme Court just decided this week that black (and lower-income) lives don't matter. Quite literally. They won't even be counted among US citizens. Systemic racism.

Nah.

I do not think it is okay for any manager of a company to talk like that about a group of people. Pretty sure it would be against most companies policies and procedures. It's just not professional. 

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

Don't trust the polls...

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2020/10/11/the-race-for-the-white-house-is-a-little-closer-than-it-looks

is this the shy trump voter people keep saying exists? couldn't get past the first few paragraphs. paywall kicked in. 

The silent Trump voter definitely exists. Half my work meetings someone brings up how Republicans and those who vote for trump are racist. That’s basically what our “diversity trainings” are, It shouldn’t be any surprise that Trump voters are often silent when in mixed company.
Now what I don’t agree with is that transferring into a poll. I don’t see the silent supporter not being honest in a poll.

There are no significant amounts of shy trump voters. This has been debunked numerous times. Biden does just as well with online polls as he does with over the phone polls. If you're "shy" you probably are more likely to lie to a pollster over the phone as opposed to a more anonymous online survey. If there was a more significant difference between these kinds of polls, that would lend credence to this mythology but there isn't much at all. 

And just anecdotally, I have never met a shy Trump voter. Every one I've met is excited to put their Trump fanaticism in your face. If anything, I would bet there are more shy Biden voters out there. 

I’ll have to disagree. When half our staff meetings and nearly all of our diversity trainings (of which we’ve had several since the beginning of the school year) the leaders of the meetings mention republicans and conservatives are racist, they become silent on the topic. Not all obviously. But rather than be labeled a racist for simply being conservative, it’s easier to not engage in the conversation in the work place.
Thats not to say there aren’t silent or shy Biden voters too.

Everyone will have anecdotal incidents like what you are describing. But there is just no statistical evidence to prove that there is a significant amount that will swing an election. This was the case in 2016 and 2018... and all indicators appear 2020 is no different. 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-supporters-arent-shy-but-polls-could-still-be-missing-some-of-them/

Bigger question I have is why are the leaders of your company calling republicans and conservatives racist in your meetings? That seems pretty inappropriate. 

I 100% agree with the last statement. That’s why I not only hate our “diversity trainings,” but also find them more harmful than good. It’s an open anti white, conservative/republican and police meetings. We had a 2 day training last year and at the end of the first day they had about a 10 minute open mic to share your feelings. A teacher of color said “I’m going home today hating all white people.” And that was appropriate. Not only appropriate, but I felt the goal for the day. They don’t create equality by bringing groups up, but rather by bringing everyone else down.

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

Don't trust the polls...

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2020/10/11/the-race-for-the-white-house-is-a-little-closer-than-it-looks

is this the shy trump voter people keep saying exists? couldn't get past the first few paragraphs. paywall kicked in. 

The silent Trump voter definitely exists. Half my work meetings someone brings up how Republicans and those who vote for trump are racist. That’s basically what our “diversity trainings” are, It shouldn’t be any surprise that Trump voters are often silent when in mixed company.
Now what I don’t agree with is that transferring into a poll. I don’t see the silent supporter not being honest in a poll.

There are no significant amounts of shy trump voters. This has been debunked numerous times. Biden does just as well with online polls as he does with over the phone polls. If you're "shy" you probably are more likely to lie to a pollster over the phone as opposed to a more anonymous online survey. If there was a more significant difference between these kinds of polls, that would lend credence to this mythology but there isn't much at all. 

And just anecdotally, I have never met a shy Trump voter. Every one I've met is excited to put their Trump fanaticism in your face. If anything, I would bet there are more shy Biden voters out there. 

I’ll have to disagree. When half our staff meetings and nearly all of our diversity trainings (of which we’ve had several since the beginning of the school year) the leaders of the meetings mention republicans and conservatives are racist, they become silent on the topic. Not all obviously. But rather than be labeled a racist for simply being conservative, it’s easier to not engage in the conversation in the work place.
Thats not to say there aren’t silent or shy Biden voters too.

Everyone will have anecdotal incidents like what you are describing. But there is just no statistical evidence to prove that there is a significant amount that will swing an election. This was the case in 2016 and 2018... and all indicators appear 2020 is no different. 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-supporters-arent-shy-but-polls-could-still-be-missing-some-of-them/

Bigger question I have is why are the leaders of your company calling republicans and conservatives racist in your meetings? That seems pretty inappropriate. 

I 100% agree with the last statement. That’s why I not only hate our “diversity trainings,” but also find them more harmful than good. It’s an open anti white, conservative/republican and police meetings. We had a 2 day training last year and at the end of the first day they had about a 10 minute open mic to share your feelings. A teacher of color said “I’m going home today hating all white people.” And that was appropriate. Not only appropriate, but I felt the goal for the day. They don’t create equality by bringing groups up, but rather by bringing everyone else down.

I watched a part of the Espy Awards on ESPN, which aired at the height of George Floyd hysteria. They did a segment on racial injustice that showed a few old still photos of lynchings; photos where a black person is hanging and a group of white people are cheering. Now, while I agree that a more accurate American history should be taught in school, and the Native American genocide and African slavery shouldn't be so glossed over, is the fucking sports awards show the best place to be showing these photos? An adolescent black kid that tuned in because he voted for Lebron for best dunk or whatever gets his first exposure to photos like that on the sports awards show, and like the woman in your meeting, might just conclude that he should hate white people. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

Don't trust the polls...

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2020/10/11/the-race-for-the-white-house-is-a-little-closer-than-it-looks

is this the shy trump voter people keep saying exists? couldn't get past the first few paragraphs. paywall kicked in. 

The silent Trump voter definitely exists. Half my work meetings someone brings up how Republicans and those who vote for trump are racist. That’s basically what our “diversity trainings” are, It shouldn’t be any surprise that Trump voters are often silent when in mixed company.
Now what I don’t agree with is that transferring into a poll. I don’t see the silent supporter not being honest in a poll.

There are no significant amounts of shy trump voters. This has been debunked numerous times. Biden does just as well with online polls as he does with over the phone polls. If you're "shy" you probably are more likely to lie to a pollster over the phone as opposed to a more anonymous online survey. If there was a more significant difference between these kinds of polls, that would lend credence to this mythology but there isn't much at all. 

And just anecdotally, I have never met a shy Trump voter. Every one I've met is excited to put their Trump fanaticism in your face. If anything, I would bet there are more shy Biden voters out there. 

I’ll have to disagree. When half our staff meetings and nearly all of our diversity trainings (of which we’ve had several since the beginning of the school year) the leaders of the meetings mention republicans and conservatives are racist, they become silent on the topic. Not all obviously. But rather than be labeled a racist for simply being conservative, it’s easier to not engage in the conversation in the work place.
Thats not to say there aren’t silent or shy Biden voters too.

Everyone will have anecdotal incidents like what you are describing. But there is just no statistical evidence to prove that there is a significant amount that will swing an election. This was the case in 2016 and 2018... and all indicators appear 2020 is no different. 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-supporters-arent-shy-but-polls-could-still-be-missing-some-of-them/

Bigger question I have is why are the leaders of your company calling republicans and conservatives racist in your meetings? That seems pretty inappropriate. 

totally

Really? At this point in US history, y'all wonder why this is happening? The party and movement have been hijacked by bad actors to the point at which the terms have become synonymous with racist/racism. I don't know if the party I've voted for on more than a few occasions will ever gain back the respect it once had. And the politicians who continue to use the R moniker but who aren't in line with these bad actors are lambasted as "republicans in name only" or "RINOs." At this point, I feel like it's a losing battle for these old school GOP folks; they should just rebrand, and take all of their convention funds with them. Let the bad actors fund their own assault on democracy and common decency.



Replace "police" with "republicans and conservatives," and I think you're pretty close to what the public discourse is on this these days.

Again, a conservative Supreme Court just decided this week that black (and lower-income) lives don't matter. Quite literally. They won't even be counted among US citizens. Systemic racism.

calling every member of a certain group (effectively half the country) in a professional team meeting racist is inappropriate.

full fucking stop. 

I never said it was appropriate; I merely highlighted why some administrative types might feel emboldened to say these things at this point in US history. That doesn’t make it appropriate. It’s just where we are as a nation. 
Where’s the part where I said it’s okay or professional? Let me know, and I’ll edit accordingly. Thanks.

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

Don't trust the polls...

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2020/10/11/the-race-for-the-white-house-is-a-little-closer-than-it-looks

is this the shy trump voter people keep saying exists? couldn't get past the first few paragraphs. paywall kicked in. 

The silent Trump voter definitely exists. Half my work meetings someone brings up how Republicans and those who vote for trump are racist. That’s basically what our “diversity trainings” are, It shouldn’t be any surprise that Trump voters are often silent when in mixed company.
Now what I don’t agree with is that transferring into a poll. I don’t see the silent supporter not being honest in a poll.

There are no significant amounts of shy trump voters. This has been debunked numerous times. Biden does just as well with online polls as he does with over the phone polls. If you're "shy" you probably are more likely to lie to a pollster over the phone as opposed to a more anonymous online survey. If there was a more significant difference between these kinds of polls, that would lend credence to this mythology but there isn't much at all. 

And just anecdotally, I have never met a shy Trump voter. Every one I've met is excited to put their Trump fanaticism in your face. If anything, I would bet there are more shy Biden voters out there. 

I’ll have to disagree. When half our staff meetings and nearly all of our diversity trainings (of which we’ve had several since the beginning of the school year) the leaders of the meetings mention republicans and conservatives are racist, they become silent on the topic. Not all obviously. But rather than be labeled a racist for simply being conservative, it’s easier to not engage in the conversation in the work place.
Thats not to say there aren’t silent or shy Biden voters too.

Everyone will have anecdotal incidents like what you are describing. But there is just no statistical evidence to prove that there is a significant amount that will swing an election. This was the case in 2016 and 2018... and all indicators appear 2020 is no different. 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-supporters-arent-shy-but-polls-could-still-be-missing-some-of-them/

Bigger question I have is why are the leaders of your company calling republicans and conservatives racist in your meetings? That seems pretty inappropriate. 

totally

Really? At this point in US history, y'all wonder why this is happening? The party and movement have been hijacked by bad actors to the point at which the terms have become synonymous with racist/racism. I don't know if the party I've voted for on more than a few occasions will ever gain back the respect it once had. And the politicians who continue to use the R moniker but who aren't in line with these bad actors are lambasted as "republicans in name only" or "RINOs." At this point, I feel like it's a losing battle for these old school GOP folks; they should just rebrand, and take all of their convention funds with them. Let the bad actors fund their own assault on democracy and common decency.



Replace "police" with "republicans and conservatives," and I think you're pretty close to what the public discourse is on this these days.

Again, a conservative Supreme Court just decided this week that black (and lower-income) lives don't matter. Quite literally. They won't even be counted among US citizens. Systemic racism.

calling every member of a certain group (effectively half the country) in a professional team meeting racist is inappropriate.

full fucking stop. 

I never said it was appropriate; I merely highlighted why some administrative types might feel emboldened to say these things at this point in US history. That doesn’t make it appropriate. It’s just where we are as a nation. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

we have conservatives/republicans here. are you saying, unequivocally, that they are all racists? 

there's quite a few here that I think would rightly be pretty pissed off at that, if in fact that is what you are saying. 

See above. Did you read my post? Did I personally express that I have or support these views? If so, please show me where so that I can edit.

The Juggler said:

Nah.

I do not think it is okay for any manager of a company to talk like that about a group of people. Pretty sure it would be against most companies policies and procedures. It's just not professional. 

Where’s the part where I said it’s okay or professional? Let me know, and I’ll edit accordingly. Thanks.

So I don't understand the point of your post then. I mean we all agree that what has become of the republican party is a fucking disgrace/travesty, whatever you want to call it. People may have inferred that you were condoning that sort of talk from superiors at work because you were...you know, replying to a post about an incident that happened at work. Makes sense.

But glad to see that is not the case though. 

Good stuff:

and not only that, i simply agreed with juggler that it was unprofessional for that leader to say that in a meeting. and that prompted you to ask me why I/we wonder why it's happening and to go on a diatribe about bad actors and the republican party? did I say i wondered anything?

no, i said it was unprofessional. 

talk about the discourse of the moment. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

and not only that, i simply agreed with juggler that it was unprofessional for that leader to say that in a meeting. and that prompted you to ask me why I/we wonder why it's happening and to go on a diatribe about bad actors and the republican party? did I say i wondered anything?

no, i said it was unprofessional. 

talk about the discourse of the moment. 

Agreed.