Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

mrussel1 said:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/514738-biden-condemns-rioting-in-new-ad

Biden increasing the push back and reversal on the rioting, blaming Trump for inflammatory language.  I'm biased but that seems like a pretty easy story to sell.  Only one of the candidates is the president and responsible for what happens and how to deal with it.  

mrussel1 said:

JimmyV said:

The choice between Markey and Kennedy wasn't much of a choice at all, but I voted for Markey because Kennedy was the wrong candidate to challenge him. I absolutely agree that Markey may have been there too long and it may be time for new blood, but a Kennedy kid telling me he represents a change from the politics of old is a few bridges too far. Had he stayed in Congress I likely would have voted for Kennedy again, but his Senate challenge was ridiculous. Also...the Pelosi endorsement did not help.   

I was surprised Pelosi got involved.  It's really just payback from when he was in the House and I dont think he backed her previous bid to be Speaker,  I believe. 

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Propaganda exists on all sides. I actually believe the left is very effective with it. They've had a campaign for 4 years telling people you are evil if you don't vote for their party. I rarely hear any issues discussed, but its just how horrible of a person you are and how you deserve to suffer, etc, if you don't vote democrat. It may not be in my mailbox or phone calls, but that is the constant message from many leading politicians like Pelosi. Even the message here from many. Vote with me or you're an evil worthless piece of crap.
That's propaganda people.

To the first bold, can you point me to anything that backs this up as true?

To the second bold, can you point out or link to any public statements, campaign messaging or anything at all that backs this up as a true statement, from Pelosi or "many leading politicians?" There should be copious amounts in the public realm if what you allege is true, yes?

To the third bold, can you point to one post where you or anyone with right views or these repugnant views ("how you deserve to suffer, etc. if you don't vote democrat") that make you the target of the left have called you or alluded to you as an "evil worthless piece of crap?"

All of which is such strong and numerous propaganda in volume that it should be really easy for you to point out with a link or a cut/post and a citation, correct?.

I was mistaken. She didn't call republicans evil, she said they are "enemies of the state." My point was, there seems to be so much hate from the left at anyone who disagrees with them. Are you saying that isn't true? It goes back before the deplorables comment even.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/08/24/pelosi_republicans_are_domestic_enemies.html

You're mistaken AGAIN.  She didn't call Republicans enemies of the state.  She said that the team at 1600 Penn Ave and their allies in Congress are enemies to our voting system.  How did you screw that up twice?

Listen to the whole thing, clear as day she did.
Yes, she so she called him a domestic enemy of voting. And then included republicans in Congress, or that’s what I took her to mean his “allies in Congress.” So she called republicans domestic enemies. And then concluded by calling them enemies of the state. Trump and his allies in Congress, so most elected republicans minus a select few.

Not sure how you can deny she said that.

Did you think she was leading into the next segment about Blink182 and said enema of the state?

Republicans in congress are not most elected republicans, not by a long shot.  Nor are they republican voters.  Jumping from Trump and his allies in Congress (elected Republican congressional members) to all/most Republicans is silly.  And Trump, by his own words, is an enemy of voting simplicity. 

Fine, but it was said by 2 people Pelosi never called anyone "enemies of the state." I was even called illiterate for saying that, even though I was referring to a video and its clearly in there. Not sure how they got to illiterate or if they know what that word means, but okay. But now that I pointed out exactly where in the video she refers to Trump and his allies in congress as enemies of the state, can we agree that she said it and that she did in fact call Trump and the majority of republican congress enemies of the state?
Aren't there about 200 republicans in congress, often more? Unless you count local city council members, that's the majority of republican elected officials. I view city council as like the JV into politics, no one really knows any of them when voting or cares too much and they aren't involved with anything on a state or federal level. Between the senate, governors, and anyone else who acts on a bigger scale, a body of 200 represents the majority of that elected party. That is why I view calling congress a certain way (enemies of the state) is the same as calling the entire party the same thing. That's my opinion on that comment and how I believe she meant it. You can disagree that she meant something else, but can't disagree that she said it.

Dude, c'mon.  You think 200 is majority of elected officials?  Okay throw out city council.  Mayors, governors, state legs, state senators, AG's.  That's far, far more than 199 elected Republican officials.  

Edit- and what's with Trump supporters always trying to re-explain what people said?  I get that they feel the need to always have to walk back whatever dumb thing Trump said as "he really meant this", but Nancy said what she said and pointed to Trump and Congress.  You can 'interpret' that however you want and take pains to explain it with bad math, but why feel compelled to re-explain Nancy's own words?

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Propaganda exists on all sides. I actually believe the left is very effective with it. They've had a campaign for 4 years telling people you are evil if you don't vote for their party. I rarely hear any issues discussed, but its just how horrible of a person you are and how you deserve to suffer, etc, if you don't vote democrat. It may not be in my mailbox or phone calls, but that is the constant message from many leading politicians like Pelosi. Even the message here from many. Vote with me or you're an evil worthless piece of crap.
That's propaganda people.

To the first bold, can you point me to anything that backs this up as true?

To the second bold, can you point out or link to any public statements, campaign messaging or anything at all that backs this up as a true statement, from Pelosi or "many leading politicians?" There should be copious amounts in the public realm if what you allege is true, yes?

To the third bold, can you point to one post where you or anyone with right views or these repugnant views ("how you deserve to suffer, etc. if you don't vote democrat") that make you the target of the left have called you or alluded to you as an "evil worthless piece of crap?"

All of which is such strong and numerous propaganda in volume that it should be really easy for you to point out with a link or a cut/post and a citation, correct?.

I was mistaken. She didn't call republicans evil, she said they are "enemies of the state." My point was, there seems to be so much hate from the left at anyone who disagrees with them. Are you saying that isn't true? It goes back before the deplorables comment even.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/08/24/pelosi_republicans_are_domestic_enemies.html

You're mistaken AGAIN.  She didn't call Republicans enemies of the state.  She said that the team at 1600 Penn Ave and their allies in Congress are enemies to our voting system.  How did you screw that up twice?

Listen to the whole thing, clear as day she did.
Yes, she so she called him a domestic enemy of voting. And then included republicans in Congress, or that’s what I took her to mean his “allies in Congress.” So she called republicans domestic enemies. And then concluded by calling them enemies of the state. Trump and his allies in Congress, so most elected republicans minus a select few.

Not sure how you can deny she said that.

Did you think she was leading into the next segment about Blink182 and said enema of the state?

Republicans in congress are not most elected republicans, not by a long shot.  Nor are they republican voters.  Jumping from Trump and his allies in Congress (elected Republican congressional members) to all/most Republicans is silly.  And Trump, by his own words, is an enemy of voting simplicity. 

Fine, but it was said by 2 people Pelosi never called anyone "enemies of the state." I was even called illiterate for saying that, even though I was referring to a video and its clearly in there. Not sure how they got to illiterate or if they know what that word means, but okay. But now that I pointed out exactly where in the video she refers to Trump and his allies in congress as enemies of the state, can we agree that she said it and that she did in fact call Trump and the majority of republican congress enemies of the state?
Aren't there about 200 republicans in congress, often more? Unless you count local city council members, that's the majority of republican elected officials. I view city council as like the JV into politics, no one really knows any of them when voting or cares too much and they aren't involved with anything on a state or federal level. Between the senate, governors, and anyone else who acts on a bigger scale, a body of 200 represents the majority of that elected party. That is why I view calling congress a certain way (enemies of the state) is the same as calling the entire party the same thing. That's my opinion on that comment and how I believe she meant it. You can disagree that she meant something else, but can't disagree that she said it.

Dude, c'mon.  You think 200 is majority of elected officials?  Okay throw out city council.  Mayors, governors, state legs, state senators, AG's.  That's far, far more than 199 elected Republican officials.  

Edit- and what's with Trump supporters always trying to re-explain what people said?  I get that they feel the need to always have to walk back whatever dumb thing Trump said as "he really meant this", but Nancy said what she said and pointed to Trump and Congress.  You can 'interpret' that however you want and take pains to explain it with bad math, but why feel compelled to re-explain Nancy's own words?

I said at the state and federal level, because thats all that Pelosi deals with. Are there more than 200 elected republicans as governors and senate? I forgot about AGs, but fine, include them, theres still not 200 elected republicans at a state and federal level are there?  
We can disagree on what she meant. But if anyone was to say Biden and his allies in congress are stupid, most would probably take that to mean democrats in general, would you not? Or would you think they just meant the 200 elected officials that millions of poeple voted for are stupid, but no one beyond that list of 200? Forget city counel and mayors, etc.,  maybe I was wrong on the exact total number, doesn't really matter, the thing is everyone she called an enemy of the state represents millions and were voted for by millions. I would think they are included in that statement. People here lump anyone who voted for Trump in with all of his mistakes and ideologies. Happens every day, Trump is a racist, therefore anyone who voted for him is also a racist. Probably don't have to scroll through more than 5 minutes to find someone saying that here. I would htink that applies to most elected officals and not just Trump. So by calling half of congress enemies of the state, by extension you're calling everyone who supports them and votes for them the same. Maybe you don't thats okay.

Anyway, this is my only break until the end of the day and hopefully we'll be far beyond this converrsation by the time I check back in next. 

There are 66 Republican state senators and legislatures in VA alone (my state), and they are in the minority in both chambers.  So do the math..  
Pelosi is very, very careful to not insult Republican voters and citizens.  So I don't think this is a matter of disagreement on her meaning. She is very precise in her language purposefully.  

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Propaganda exists on all sides. I actually believe the left is very effective with it. They've had a campaign for 4 years telling people you are evil if you don't vote for their party. I rarely hear any issues discussed, but its just how horrible of a person you are and how you deserve to suffer, etc, if you don't vote democrat. It may not be in my mailbox or phone calls, but that is the constant message from many leading politicians like Pelosi. Even the message here from many. Vote with me or you're an evil worthless piece of crap.
That's propaganda people.

To the first bold, can you point me to anything that backs this up as true?

To the second bold, can you point out or link to any public statements, campaign messaging or anything at all that backs this up as a true statement, from Pelosi or "many leading politicians?" There should be copious amounts in the public realm if what you allege is true, yes?

To the third bold, can you point to one post where you or anyone with right views or these repugnant views ("how you deserve to suffer, etc. if you don't vote democrat") that make you the target of the left have called you or alluded to you as an "evil worthless piece of crap?"

All of which is such strong and numerous propaganda in volume that it should be really easy for you to point out with a link or a cut/post and a citation, correct?.

I was mistaken. She didn't call republicans evil, she said they are "enemies of the state." My point was, there seems to be so much hate from the left at anyone who disagrees with them. Are you saying that isn't true? It goes back before the deplorables comment even.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/08/24/pelosi_republicans_are_domestic_enemies.html

You're mistaken AGAIN.  She didn't call Republicans enemies of the state.  She said that the team at 1600 Penn Ave and their allies in Congress are enemies to our voting system.  How did you screw that up twice?

Listen to the whole thing, clear as day she did.
Yes, she so she called him a domestic enemy of voting. And then included republicans in Congress, or that’s what I took her to mean his “allies in Congress.” So she called republicans domestic enemies. And then concluded by calling them enemies of the state. Trump and his allies in Congress, so most elected republicans minus a select few.

Not sure how you can deny she said that.

Did you think she was leading into the next segment about Blink182 and said enema of the state?

Republicans in congress are not most elected republicans, not by a long shot.  Nor are they republican voters.  Jumping from Trump and his allies in Congress (elected Republican congressional members) to all/most Republicans is silly.  And Trump, by his own words, is an enemy of voting simplicity. 

Fine, but it was said by 2 people Pelosi never called anyone "enemies of the state." I was even called illiterate for saying that, even though I was referring to a video and its clearly in there. Not sure how they got to illiterate or if they know what that word means, but okay. But now that I pointed out exactly where in the video she refers to Trump and his allies in congress as enemies of the state, can we agree that she said it and that she did in fact call Trump and the majority of republican congress enemies of the state?
Aren't there about 200 republicans in congress, often more? Unless you count local city council members, that's the majority of republican elected officials. I view city council as like the JV into politics, no one really knows any of them when voting or cares too much and they aren't involved with anything on a state or federal level. Between the senate, governors, and anyone else who acts on a bigger scale, a body of 200 represents the majority of that elected party. That is why I view calling congress a certain way (enemies of the state) is the same as calling the entire party the same thing. That's my opinion on that comment and how I believe she meant it. You can disagree that she meant something else, but can't disagree that she said it.

Dude, c'mon.  You think 200 is majority of elected officials?  Okay throw out city council.  Mayors, governors, state legs, state senators, AG's.  That's far, far more than 199 elected Republican officials.  

Edit- and what's with Trump supporters always trying to re-explain what people said?  I get that they feel the need to always have to walk back whatever dumb thing Trump said as "he really meant this", but Nancy said what she said and pointed to Trump and Congress.  You can 'interpret' that however you want and take pains to explain it with bad math, but why feel compelled to re-explain Nancy's own words?

I said at the state and federal level, because thats all that Pelosi deals with. Are there more than 200 elected republicans as governors and senate? I forgot about AGs, but fine, include them, theres still not 200 elected republicans at a state and federal level are there?  
We can disagree on what she meant. But if anyone was to say Biden and his allies in congress are stupid, most would probably take that to mean democrats in general, would you not? Or would you think they just meant the 200 elected officials that millions of poeple voted for are stupid, but no one beyond that list of 200? Forget city counel and mayors, etc.,  maybe I was wrong on the exact total number, doesn't really matter, the thing is everyone she called an enemy of the state represents millions and were voted for by millions. I would think they are included in that statement. People here lump anyone who voted for Trump in with all of his mistakes and ideologies. Happens every day, Trump is a racist, therefore anyone who voted for him is also a racist. Probably don't have to scroll through more than 5 minutes to find someone saying that here. I would htink that applies to most elected officals and not just Trump. So by calling half of congress enemies of the state, by extension you're calling everyone who supports them and votes for them the same. Maybe you don't thats okay.

Anyway, this is my only break until the end of the day and hopefully we'll be far beyond this converrsation by the time I check back in next. 

There are 66 Republican state senators and legislatures in VA alone (my state), and they are in the minority in both chambers.  So do the math..  
Pelosi is very, very careful to not insult Republican voters and citizens.  So I don't think this is a matter of disagreement on her meaning. She is very precise in her language purposefully.  

I was wrong in not including house of reps and state assemblies. So my numbers were way off, yes.
I still believe if you insult 200 members of congress you are also insulting those that vote and support them.

mrussel1 said:

Kat said:

That's leadership there.  That's the hard work it takes,  not picking a side and doing a photo op.

mrussel1 said:

OnWis97 said:

mrussel1 said:

Kat said:

That's leadership there.  That's the hard work it takes,  not picking a side and doing a photo op.

Are you sure?  I bet he won't even have the guts to call someone a terrible reporter, flip paper towels to people, or make all about himself.

I was thinking about what will happen in the debates.  When confronted in the press, he gets mad, walks away, etc.  I think Biden is going to revert to old Scranton dialogue and get rough with him.  He's going to call him out on lies and such, because you know Trump will lie.  I just think Biden will be aggressive, and not show him the respect he would normally show a president or a candidate.  It will be interesting to see the strategy Biden takes.