George Floyd Protests

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,000
    mace1229 said:
    Last time you accused me of the same thing when I shared my same brother warned LA was about to release most of their inmates. Turns out most major cities did within a few days. I guess it’s a better schtick than just personal attacks every time I disagree with someone.
    If I remember correctly, and correct me if I’m wrong, as it’s in one of these threads, covid, police abuse, etc., I did question your brother’s statement that they received a memo telling them to have riot gear handy because of civil unrest due to covid. I haven’t seen any other reporting of that directive, despite the size and scale of the law enforcement community in LA. This was before the civil unrest of George Floyd. Must be one of LA County’s best kept secrets? I also don’t believe I questioned your claim that prisons would be emptied as that had been and is widely reported upon, again due to covid. But by all means, point out my posts that lay claim as you posit.

    I don’t believe your brother’s claim that the press, whoever they were, were directed to not report on “lawlessness or riots or chaos or mayhem.” Or however he defined it.

    verifiable claims > hearsay
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  • Bentleyspop
    Bentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 11,394
    Meltdown99 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    mace1229 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    dignin said:
    mace1229 said:
    I hesitate sharing any Th omg personal because the cop haters are always going to hate. Believe me or not, just sharing some info. Because news reporters out on the corner in one of the largest cities in the world during massive protests is hard to believe you could stop at an intersection, roll down a window and have a 6 second conversation waiting on traffic. 
    A lot of information was shared in 6 seconds.

    Call me a skeptic.

    In the age of twitter it would kind of hard to hide all this secret rioting. Maybe your brother should start recording all this troubling behavior to share it with the world.
    Not to mention that LA’s skies are typically filled with police and news station traffic reporter helicopters and all the news outlets monitor police communications for that inevitable car chase they can film live. That, and I suppose neither of them called for backup or were escorted in some way, drawing more attention to the “story” that didn’t get reported. Any self respecting journalist wouldn’t say such a thing. Now, whether they file a report and their GM squashes it, that’s another story. More incitement of “lawlessness” caused by the radical left. I’m sure FaceTurd is full of posts about how the prisoners were released into the community and there’s already been rapes and murders and robbery.


    Where did I say they never called for backup? I took a 5 minute conversation and turned it into about 2 sentences to share. But of course you want leaked secured documents every time I share an experience. 
    They called for backup, he witnessed the first moments live and listened to the rest on the radio as backup arrived and Several patrol cars dispersed the crowd surrounding the bus.
    But whatever, you’re also the one that didn’t believe me when I said they are about to release most of the jails for due to Covid  because I wouldn’t provide leaked secret  documentation, then a few days later every major city was reporting they did. Either you think I made the whole thing up, or my brother lied to me, or that maybe the news isn’t reporting on violent protests. Since just a week ago they were looting stores in broad daylight in front of cops and suddenly you don’t see that happening anymore it doesn’t seem like a big stretch. Or maybe they just all decided to do better? Whatever.
    I don’t believe the press wouldn’t report on a DOC bus being attacked with rocks and protestors jumping on the roof. Not with the amount of surveillance deployed by the press and law enforcement. But typical of your posts, your information comes second hand without a verifiable source. It’s an old schtick.
    And how do you propose I provide a source when sharing personal information? I mean other than last time I was proven completely correct by the media
    Is all police communication easily monitored.  I would suspect that the LAPD have a way to communicate securely...and I would think a DOC bus under threat would be as good a reason as any to to use a secure way to communicate..
    A lot is done on the "public" channels.
    They do have "secure" channels that cannot be monitored by the public.
  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841

    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,111
    edited June 2020
    54th mass regiment monument in Boston  spray painted and damaged?  Ffs know your history.  I support change but this type of action does not help your cause.  
    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,000
    edited June 2020
    mcgruff10 said:
    54th mass regiment monument in Boston  spray painted and damaged?  Ffs know your history.  I support change but this type of action does not help your cause.  
    Yup, maybe Super Happy Fun Club America knows their history? So, who needs to know their history so they won’t hurt their cause? Meanwhile, another living, breathing, real, African American is murdered by police in Atlanta. Priorities, right? And again with the doctored images or juxtaposed images to “inflame,” “incite,” or not really represent what is being posited. But yea, rage.

    https://www.truthorfiction.com/this-is-the-54th-regiment-memorial-defaced-this-week-claim/
    Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,000
    Buh, buh, buh, buh

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/protests-antifa-absent/2020/06/13/7f14b8fa-ab80-11ea-9063-e69bd6520940_story.html

    Now, who you gonna blame?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,062
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    mace1229 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    dignin said:
    mace1229 said:
    I hesitate sharing any Th omg personal because the cop haters are always going to hate. Believe me or not, just sharing some info. Because news reporters out on the corner in one of the largest cities in the world during massive protests is hard to believe you could stop at an intersection, roll down a window and have a 6 second conversation waiting on traffic. 
    A lot of information was shared in 6 seconds.

    Call me a skeptic.

    In the age of twitter it would kind of hard to hide all this secret rioting. Maybe your brother should start recording all this troubling behavior to share it with the world.
    Not to mention that LA’s skies are typically filled with police and news station traffic reporter helicopters and all the news outlets monitor police communications for that inevitable car chase they can film live. That, and I suppose neither of them called for backup or were escorted in some way, drawing more attention to the “story” that didn’t get reported. Any self respecting journalist wouldn’t say such a thing. Now, whether they file a report and their GM squashes it, that’s another story. More incitement of “lawlessness” caused by the radical left. I’m sure FaceTurd is full of posts about how the prisoners were released into the community and there’s already been rapes and murders and robbery.


    Where did I say they never called for backup? I took a 5 minute conversation and turned it into about 2 sentences to share. But of course you want leaked secured documents every time I share an experience. 
    They called for backup, he witnessed the first moments live and listened to the rest on the radio as backup arrived and Several patrol cars dispersed the crowd surrounding the bus.
    But whatever, you’re also the one that didn’t believe me when I said they are about to release most of the jails for due to Covid  because I wouldn’t provide leaked secret  documentation, then a few days later every major city was reporting they did. Either you think I made the whole thing up, or my brother lied to me, or that maybe the news isn’t reporting on violent protests. Since just a week ago they were looting stores in broad daylight in front of cops and suddenly you don’t see that happening anymore it doesn’t seem like a big stretch. Or maybe they just all decided to do better? Whatever.
    I don’t believe the press wouldn’t report on a DOC bus being attacked with rocks and protestors jumping on the roof. Not with the amount of surveillance deployed by the press and law enforcement. But typical of your posts, your information comes second hand without a verifiable source. It’s an old schtick.
    In the age of cell phone cameras no one happened to take a picture or video of “rioters” taking over a prisoner transport bus?
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,541
    mace1229 said:
    How long does it take for you to say “you should cover the LA county buss that got swarmed 2 blocks over” “We can’t, our network said to only cover peaceful protest, no violence” ?
    If that takes you more than 8 seconds you should see a speech therapist. I stutter since I was about 4 and I can still get that out in less than 6 seconds.
    I don’t believe a word of your story! 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,810
    mace1229 said:
    Last time you accused me of the same thing when I shared my same brother warned LA was about to release most of their inmates. Turns out most major cities did within a few days. I guess it’s a better schtick than just personal attacks every time I disagree with someone.
    Have any of you actually been watching the news? It’s extremely clear that after showing a lot of rioting/looting that they made a shift to focus more on the protests and less on all the other stuff. I don’t think it is for a devious purpose. It seems they didn’t want to show and glorify and by default encourage that activity. 

    Seems all very reasonable to me.
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  • Bentleyspop
    Bentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 11,394
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Buh, buh, buh, buh

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/protests-antifa-absent/2020/06/13/7f14b8fa-ab80-11ea-9063-e69bd6520940_story.html

    Now, who you gonna blame?
    President Barack Obama 
  • Bentleyspop
    Bentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 11,394

  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    mace1229 said:
    My brother is a LA county deputy and was driving a van transporting inmates. The bus in front of him, also transporting inmates, was swarmed and ambushed by protestors. Threw rocks and bricks at it and jump on top, it was completely stuck. My brother turned around and passed some reporters a few blocks away reporting on another protest. He pulled over to tell them what was going on a few blocks away and they told him they have been instructed by their networks to not report anything violent and only cover peaceful protests.

    i have little doubt we aren’t getting a very accurate story of what is going on in some of these cities. 

    So, a few thoughts about this.

    First, it would be helpful to know what network or news agency these reporters were supposedly from. Local, regional, national, international? This matters, when judging whether this situation would even mean anything, assuming it occurred. 

    Second, reporters don't generally just go out and wander around randomly - they are given an assignment to cover. It's entirely possible that this group was given the assignment to cover peaceful protests. After all, FSM knows there's been a lot of coverage of the non-peaceful variety already.

    Third, even if we were to believe that there was some sort of directive from the top of one of the "networks" to not cover violent protests, what's to stop all of the other agencies from covering them? LA is a big place, with lots of news outlets from across the political spectrum. It's conspiracy theory to the max to believe that they would all have banded together to prevent coverage of certain aspects of the situation. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,062
    oftenreading said:
    mace1229 said:
    My brother is a LA county deputy and was driving a van transporting inmates. The bus in front of him, also transporting inmates, was swarmed and ambushed by protestors. Threw rocks and bricks at it and jump on top, it was completely stuck. My brother turned around and passed some reporters a few blocks away reporting on another protest. He pulled over to tell them what was going on a few blocks away and they told him they have been instructed by their networks to not report anything violent and only cover peaceful protests.

    i have little doubt we aren’t getting a very accurate story of what is going on in some of these cities. 

    So, a few thoughts about this.

    First, it would be helpful to know what network or news agency these reporters were supposedly from. Local, regional, national, international? This matters, when judging whether this situation would even mean anything, assuming it occurred. 

    Second, reporters don't generally just go out and wander around randomly - they are given an assignment to cover. It's entirely possible that this group was given the assignment to cover peaceful protests. After all, FSM knows there's been a lot of coverage of the non-peaceful variety already.

    Third, even if we were to believe that there was some sort of directive from the top of one of the "networks" to not cover violent protests, what's to stop all of the other agencies from covering them? LA is a big place, with lots of news outlets from across the political spectrum. It's conspiracy theory to the max to believe that they would all have banded together to prevent coverage of certain aspects of the situation. 

    Halifax2TheMax said:
    mace1229 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    dignin said:
    mace1229 said:
    I hesitate sharing any Th omg personal because the cop haters are always going to hate. Believe me or not, just sharing some info. Because news reporters out on the corner in one of the largest cities in the world during massive protests is hard to believe you could stop at an intersection, roll down a window and have a 6 second conversation waiting on traffic. 
    A lot of information was shared in 6 seconds.

    Call me a skeptic.

    In the age of twitter it would kind of hard to hide all this secret rioting. Maybe your brother should start recording all this troubling behavior to share it with the world.
    Not to mention that LA’s skies are typically filled with police and news station traffic reporter helicopters and all the news outlets monitor police communications for that inevitable car chase they can film live. That, and I suppose neither of them called for backup or were escorted in some way, drawing more attention to the “story” that didn’t get reported. Any self respecting journalist wouldn’t say such a thing. Now, whether they file a report and their GM squashes it, that’s another story. More incitement of “lawlessness” caused by the radical left. I’m sure FaceTurd is full of posts about how the prisoners were released into the community and there’s already been rapes and murders and robbery.


    Where did I say they never called for backup? I took a 5 minute conversation and turned it into about 2 sentences to share. But of course you want leaked secured documents every time I share an experience. 
    They called for backup, he witnessed the first moments live and listened to the rest on the radio as backup arrived and Several patrol cars dispersed the crowd surrounding the bus.
    But whatever, you’re also the one that didn’t believe me when I said they are about to release most of the jails for due to Covid  because I wouldn’t provide leaked secret  documentation, then a few days later every major city was reporting they did. Either you think I made the whole thing up, or my brother lied to me, or that maybe the news isn’t reporting on violent protests. Since just a week ago they were looting stores in broad daylight in front of cops and suddenly you don’t see that happening anymore it doesn’t seem like a big stretch. Or maybe they just all decided to do better? Whatever.
    I don’t believe the press wouldn’t report on a DOC bus being attacked with rocks and protestors jumping on the roof. Not with the amount of surveillance deployed by the press and law enforcement. But typical of your posts, your information comes second hand without a verifiable source. It’s an old schtick.
    In the age of cell phone cameras no one happened to take a picture or video of “rioters” taking over a prisoner transport bus?
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,000
    static111 said:
    oftenreading said:
    mace1229 said:
    My brother is a LA county deputy and was driving a van transporting inmates. The bus in front of him, also transporting inmates, was swarmed and ambushed by protestors. Threw rocks and bricks at it and jump on top, it was completely stuck. My brother turned around and passed some reporters a few blocks away reporting on another protest. He pulled over to tell them what was going on a few blocks away and they told him they have been instructed by their networks to not report anything violent and only cover peaceful protests.

    i have little doubt we aren’t getting a very accurate story of what is going on in some of these cities. 

    So, a few thoughts about this.

    First, it would be helpful to know what network or news agency these reporters were supposedly from. Local, regional, national, international? This matters, when judging whether this situation would even mean anything, assuming it occurred. 

    Second, reporters don't generally just go out and wander around randomly - they are given an assignment to cover. It's entirely possible that this group was given the assignment to cover peaceful protests. After all, FSM knows there's been a lot of coverage of the non-peaceful variety already.

    Third, even if we were to believe that there was some sort of directive from the top of one of the "networks" to not cover violent protests, what's to stop all of the other agencies from covering them? LA is a big place, with lots of news outlets from across the political spectrum. It's conspiracy theory to the max to believe that they would all have banded together to prevent coverage of certain aspects of the situation. 

    Halifax2TheMax said:
    mace1229 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    dignin said:
    mace1229 said:
    I hesitate sharing any Th omg personal because the cop haters are always going to hate. Believe me or not, just sharing some info. Because news reporters out on the corner in one of the largest cities in the world during massive protests is hard to believe you could stop at an intersection, roll down a window and have a 6 second conversation waiting on traffic. 
    A lot of information was shared in 6 seconds.

    Call me a skeptic.

    In the age of twitter it would kind of hard to hide all this secret rioting. Maybe your brother should start recording all this troubling behavior to share it with the world.
    Not to mention that LA’s skies are typically filled with police and news station traffic reporter helicopters and all the news outlets monitor police communications for that inevitable car chase they can film live. That, and I suppose neither of them called for backup or were escorted in some way, drawing more attention to the “story” that didn’t get reported. Any self respecting journalist wouldn’t say such a thing. Now, whether they file a report and their GM squashes it, that’s another story. More incitement of “lawlessness” caused by the radical left. I’m sure FaceTurd is full of posts about how the prisoners were released into the community and there’s already been rapes and murders and robbery.


    Where did I say they never called for backup? I took a 5 minute conversation and turned it into about 2 sentences to share. But of course you want leaked secured documents every time I share an experience. 
    They called for backup, he witnessed the first moments live and listened to the rest on the radio as backup arrived and Several patrol cars dispersed the crowd surrounding the bus.
    But whatever, you’re also the one that didn’t believe me when I said they are about to release most of the jails for due to Covid  because I wouldn’t provide leaked secret  documentation, then a few days later every major city was reporting they did. Either you think I made the whole thing up, or my brother lied to me, or that maybe the news isn’t reporting on violent protests. Since just a week ago they were looting stores in broad daylight in front of cops and suddenly you don’t see that happening anymore it doesn’t seem like a big stretch. Or maybe they just all decided to do better? Whatever.
    I don’t believe the press wouldn’t report on a DOC bus being attacked with rocks and protestors jumping on the roof. Not with the amount of surveillance deployed by the press and law enforcement. But typical of your posts, your information comes second hand without a verifiable source. It’s an old schtick.
    In the age of cell phone cameras no one happened to take a picture or video of “rioters” taking over a prisoner transport bus?
    Little known fact, all Obamaphones were repossessed the day after the inaugural.
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  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,062
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    static111 said:
    oftenreading said:
    mace1229 said:
    My brother is a LA county deputy and was driving a van transporting inmates. The bus in front of him, also transporting inmates, was swarmed and ambushed by protestors. Threw rocks and bricks at it and jump on top, it was completely stuck. My brother turned around and passed some reporters a few blocks away reporting on another protest. He pulled over to tell them what was going on a few blocks away and they told him they have been instructed by their networks to not report anything violent and only cover peaceful protests.

    i have little doubt we aren’t getting a very accurate story of what is going on in some of these cities. 

    So, a few thoughts about this.

    First, it would be helpful to know what network or news agency these reporters were supposedly from. Local, regional, national, international? This matters, when judging whether this situation would even mean anything, assuming it occurred. 

    Second, reporters don't generally just go out and wander around randomly - they are given an assignment to cover. It's entirely possible that this group was given the assignment to cover peaceful protests. After all, FSM knows there's been a lot of coverage of the non-peaceful variety already.

    Third, even if we were to believe that there was some sort of directive from the top of one of the "networks" to not cover violent protests, what's to stop all of the other agencies from covering them? LA is a big place, with lots of news outlets from across the political spectrum. It's conspiracy theory to the max to believe that they would all have banded together to prevent coverage of certain aspects of the situation. 

    Halifax2TheMax said:
    mace1229 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    dignin said:
    mace1229 said:
    I hesitate sharing any Th omg personal because the cop haters are always going to hate. Believe me or not, just sharing some info. Because news reporters out on the corner in one of the largest cities in the world during massive protests is hard to believe you could stop at an intersection, roll down a window and have a 6 second conversation waiting on traffic. 
    A lot of information was shared in 6 seconds.

    Call me a skeptic.

    In the age of twitter it would kind of hard to hide all this secret rioting. Maybe your brother should start recording all this troubling behavior to share it with the world.
    Not to mention that LA’s skies are typically filled with police and news station traffic reporter helicopters and all the news outlets monitor police communications for that inevitable car chase they can film live. That, and I suppose neither of them called for backup or were escorted in some way, drawing more attention to the “story” that didn’t get reported. Any self respecting journalist wouldn’t say such a thing. Now, whether they file a report and their GM squashes it, that’s another story. More incitement of “lawlessness” caused by the radical left. I’m sure FaceTurd is full of posts about how the prisoners were released into the community and there’s already been rapes and murders and robbery.


    Where did I say they never called for backup? I took a 5 minute conversation and turned it into about 2 sentences to share. But of course you want leaked secured documents every time I share an experience. 
    They called for backup, he witnessed the first moments live and listened to the rest on the radio as backup arrived and Several patrol cars dispersed the crowd surrounding the bus.
    But whatever, you’re also the one that didn’t believe me when I said they are about to release most of the jails for due to Covid  because I wouldn’t provide leaked secret  documentation, then a few days later every major city was reporting they did. Either you think I made the whole thing up, or my brother lied to me, or that maybe the news isn’t reporting on violent protests. Since just a week ago they were looting stores in broad daylight in front of cops and suddenly you don’t see that happening anymore it doesn’t seem like a big stretch. Or maybe they just all decided to do better? Whatever.
    I don’t believe the press wouldn’t report on a DOC bus being attacked with rocks and protestors jumping on the roof. Not with the amount of surveillance deployed by the press and law enforcement. But typical of your posts, your information comes second hand without a verifiable source. It’s an old schtick.
    In the age of cell phone cameras no one happened to take a picture or video of “rioters” taking over a prisoner transport bus?
    Little known fact, all Obamaphones were repossessed the day after the inaugural.
    So now Obama is keeping the press and private citizens from filming the work of looters!? Let’s impeach Obama!
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,000
    Riddle me this.


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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,336
    For what it's worth I have cell phone video of protesters throwing a garbage can at a police vehicle for no reason.  That didn't make the news either.
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,397
    tempo_n_groove said:
    For what it's worth I have cell phone video of protesters throwing a garbage can at a police vehicle for no reason.  That didn't make the news either.
    You should start your own news site. You could call it "The Daily Tempo: Get Your Groove On". Ambiguous enough to get some lingering clicks looking for something more salacious.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,824
    tempo_n_groove said:
    For what it's worth I have cell phone video of protesters throwing a garbage can at a police vehicle for no reason.  That didn't make the news either.
    Apparently if it didn’t make CNN, it doesn’t exist. Sorry.
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,336
    tbergs said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    For what it's worth I have cell phone video of protesters throwing a garbage can at a police vehicle for no reason.  That didn't make the news either.
    You should start your own news site. You could call it "The Daily Tempo: Get Your Groove On". Ambiguous enough to get some lingering clicks looking for something more salacious.
    lol, no dick pics allowed.
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