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George Floyd Protests

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  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 4,297
    DewieCox said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    dankind said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    Are you literally saying burn it down? I just can’t understand that. I guess most here aren’t affected by the actual burning down and looting and rioting that follow these unfortunate situations. 
    I would guess that most here aren’t affected by "these unfortunate situations" that can lead a person to burn down, loot, and riot. 

    And that's why you/they can't understand.


    Cool. That’s your opinion. I think it’s bullshit. 2 wrongs don’t make a right. I don’t think anyone has the right to destroy or steal property that doesn’t belong to them under any circumstances 
    Yeah, because peaceful protests are always work and it’s always the protestors that instigate the rioting.
    Where’s the proof that violent looting and destroying businesses that have nothing to do with the situation work? If you want to say that cops instigate the rioting 100% of the time, cool. Do they also instigate the looting? Cmon. 
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 10,931
    I’m not saying it’s the best solution or the preferable route but I think beating people over the head with “look how fucked up our country is” is sure as hell going to get a lot farther than listening to a  bunch of people saying “I’m not racist, I have a black friend” or “he should’ve complied”

    People are always going to take advantage of a combustible situation. 
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 20,565

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  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 18,570
    nicknyr15 said:
    DewieCox said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    dankind said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    Are you literally saying burn it down? I just can’t understand that. I guess most here aren’t affected by the actual burning down and looting and rioting that follow these unfortunate situations. 
    I would guess that most here aren’t affected by "these unfortunate situations" that can lead a person to burn down, loot, and riot. 

    And that's why you/they can't understand.


    Cool. That’s your opinion. I think it’s bullshit. 2 wrongs don’t make a right. I don’t think anyone has the right to destroy or steal property that doesn’t belong to them under any circumstances 
    Yeah, because peaceful protests are always work and it’s always the protestors that instigate the rioting.
    Where’s the proof that violent looting and destroying businesses that have nothing to do with the situation work? If you want to say that cops instigate the rioting 100% of the time, cool. Do they also instigate the looting? Cmon. 
    the guy that vandalized that auto zone and started the violence was not BLM. if i remember correctly he was an off duty cop or some sort for responder dressed like BLM protester.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 18,570
    nicknyr15 said:
    DewieCox said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    dankind said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    Are you literally saying burn it down? I just can’t understand that. I guess most here aren’t affected by the actual burning down and looting and rioting that follow these unfortunate situations. 
    I would guess that most here aren’t affected by "these unfortunate situations" that can lead a person to burn down, loot, and riot. 

    And that's why you/they can't understand.


    Cool. That’s your opinion. I think it’s bullshit. 2 wrongs don’t make a right. I don’t think anyone has the right to destroy or steal property that doesn’t belong to them under any circumstances 
    Yeah, because peaceful protests are always work and it’s always the protestors that instigate the rioting.
    Where’s the proof that violent looting and destroying businesses that have nothing to do with the situation work? If you want to say that cops instigate the rioting 100% of the time, cool. Do they also instigate the looting? Cmon. 
    the guy that vandalized that auto zone and started the violence was not BLM. if i remember correctly he was an off duty cop or some sort for responder dressed like BLM protester.
    my bad. he was a white supremacist dressed as BLM protestor. difficult to keep all of these events straight in my memory. sorry for the false info

    https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/07/28/896515022/minneapolis-police-reportedly-identify-viral-umbrella-man-as-white-supremacist
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,287
    What does anyone here suggest the soon to be disenfranchised black communities of Georgia do? Go out and vote?
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,287
    And damn all those rioting and looting black protestors.

    Umbrella Man: Minneapolis police link suspect to white supremacists - BBC News
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  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 18,570
    What does anyone here suggest the soon to be disenfranchised black communities of Georgia do? Go out and vote?
    give them water while on line. because fuck that racist ass new law.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 17,388
    edited March 29
    What does anyone here suggest the soon to be disenfranchised black communities of Georgia do? Go out and vote?
    give them water while on line. because fuck that racist ass new law.
    Florida is actually trying to ban that now, too!

    Hate minds think alike!

    Edited to add link: https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/545410-florida-lawmakers-weigh-bill-banning-handing-out-food-water-within-150
    Post edited by dankind on
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 4,297
    And damn all those rioting and looting black protestors.

    Umbrella Man: Minneapolis police link suspect to white supremacists - BBC News
    I didn’t say anything about black or white. With you it’s always a race competition of who acts shittier. For me a shit person is a shit person. 
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,287
    nicknyr15 said:
    And damn all those rioting and looting black protestors.

    Umbrella Man: Minneapolis police link suspect to white supremacists - BBC News
    I didn’t say anything about black or white. With you it’s always a race competition of who acts shittier. For me a shit person is a shit person. 
    You don't have to say it. I know what you meant. Is justice color blind?
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  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 4,297
    nicknyr15 said:
    And damn all those rioting and looting black protestors.

    Umbrella Man: Minneapolis police link suspect to white supremacists - BBC News
    I didn’t say anything about black or white. With you it’s always a race competition of who acts shittier. For me a shit person is a shit person. 
    You don't have to say it. I know what you meant. Is justice color blind?
    You know what I meant? Please dude. 
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 24,647
    I’m sure most here are against violent protesters me included! I just don’t know how much more these communities will put up with if these cops who killed Floyd walk.
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  • cblock4lifecblock4life Posts: 243
    I’m sure most here are against violent protesters me included! I just don’t know how much more these communities will put up with if these cops who killed Floyd walk.
    There will be protests and rioting and violence and so on....but it’s already been 400+ years. 
    Nothing is going to stop racism until we’re all one color or we’re all dead. 
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 33,824
    I’m sure most here are against violent protesters me included! I just don’t know how much more these communities will put up with if these cops who killed Floyd walk.
    There will be protests and rioting and violence and so on....but it’s already been 400+ years. 
    Nothing is going to stop racism until we’re all one color or we’re all dead. 
    You may well be right.  Honestly though, I don't like either choice. 
    One could argue that humans should die off for the sake of the planet.  Hard to argue that one, but then who wants to die or see loved ones die?  No, I'd rather humans learn to live in balanced ecological harmony with the planet rather than kill the planet or die off ourselves.
    As for all one color, a close relative of mine was at one time strongly in favor of the idea of people inter-marrying until we are all one color.  I think her motives for wanting that were good and sincere, but I strongly object to the idea.  No Africans?  No Asians?  No tribal peoples?  No Irish? So Chileans?  No Inuit?  No Spanish?  No French? No Bedouins? No Polynesians? Etc...
    No way do I like that idea.  All of the races and nations and peoples have added so much marvelous variety to our world.  How can one not see that?  How can one not marvel at our individual and differing contributions to the wonderful stew that is humanity?
    One color, one creed, one culture?  That sounds like death to me.

    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • cblock4lifecblock4life Posts: 243
    brianlux said:
    I’m sure most here are against violent protesters me included! I just don’t know how much more these communities will put up with if these cops who killed Floyd walk.
    There will be protests and rioting and violence and so on....but it’s already been 400+ years. 
    Nothing is going to stop racism until we’re all one color or we’re all dead. 
    You may well be right.  Honestly though, I don't like either choice. 
    One could argue that humans should die off for the sake of the planet.  Hard to argue that one, but then who wants to die or see loved ones die?  No, I'd rather humans learn to live in balanced ecological harmony with the planet rather than kill the planet or die off ourselves.
    As for all one color, a close relative of mine was at one time strongly in favor of the idea of people inter-marrying until we are all one color.  I think her motives for wanting that were good and sincere, but I strongly object to the idea.  No Africans?  No Asians?  No tribal peoples?  No Irish? So Chileans?  No Inuit?  No Spanish?  No French? No Bedouins? No Polynesians? Etc...
    No way do I like that idea.  All of the races and nations and peoples have added so much marvelous variety to our world.  How can one not see that?  How can one not marvel at our individual and differing contributions to the wonderful stew that is humanity?
    One color, one creed, one culture?  That sounds like death to me. 
    I agree with everything you’ve said, no argument from me, I’m just not very optimistic. I feel as strongly as you about the diversity of humans and the enormous benefits we receive from other cultures.  I guess I’m just a realist. 
  • static111static111 Posts: 2,355
    I’m sure most here are against violent protesters me included! I just don’t know how much more these communities will put up with if these cops who killed Floyd walk.
    There will be protests and rioting and violence and so on....but it’s already been 400+ years. 
    Nothing is going to stop racism until we’re all one color or we’re all dead. 
    If we were all one color we would still find something to hate.   It’s not the color specifically. It’s some people’s need to feel superior.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 20,565
     
    Witness describes seeing Floyd 'slowly fade away'
    By STEVE KARNOWSKI and AMY FORLITI
    Yesterday

    MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — A man who was among onlookers shouting at a Minneapolis police officer to get off George Floyd last May was to continue testifying Tuesday, a day after he described seeing Floyd struggle for air and his eyes rolling back into his head, saying he saw Floyd “slowly fade away ... like a fish in a bag.”

    Donald Williams, a former wrestler who said he was trained in mixed martial arts including chokeholds, testified Monday that he thought Derek Chauvin used a shimmying motion several times to increase the pressure on Floyd. He said he yelled to the officer that he was cutting off Floyd’s blood supply.

    Williams recalled that Floyd’s voice grew thicker as his breathing became more labored, and he eventually stopped moving.

    “From there on he was lifeless,” Williams said. “He didn't move, he didn't speak, he didn't have no life in him no more on his body movements.”

    Williams was among the first prosecution witnesses as trial opened for Chauvin, 45, who is charged with murder and manslaughter in Floyd's death.

    Prosecutors led off their case by playing part of the bystander video that captured Floyd's arrest on May 25. Chauvin and three other officers were fired soon after the video touched off outrage and protest, sometimes violent, that spread from Minneapolis around the world.

    The trial for former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin began on Monday in George Floyd's death. The Associated Press' Steve Karnowski discusses the first day of the trial. (March 29)

    Prosecutor Jerry Blackwell showed the jurors the footage at the earliest opportunity, during opening statements, after telling them that the number to remember was 9 minutes, 29 seconds — the amount of time Chauvin had Floyd pinned to the pavement last May.

    The white officer “didn’t let up" even after a handcuffed Floyd said 27 times that he couldn’t breathe and went limp, Blackwell said.

    “He put his knees upon his neck and his back, grinding and crushing him, until the very breath — no, ladies and gentlemen — until the very life was squeezed out of him,” the prosecutor said.

    Chauvin attorney Eric Nelson countered by arguing: “Derek Chauvin did exactly what he had been trained to do over his 19-year career.”

    Floyd was fighting efforts to put him in a squad car as the crowd of onlookers around Chauvin and his fellow officers grew and became increasingly hostile, Nelson said.

    The defense attorney also disputed that Chauvin was to blame for Floyd’s death.

    Floyd, 46, had none of the telltale signs of asphyxiation and he had fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system, Nelson said. He said Floyd’s drug use, combined with his heart disease, high blood pressure and the adrenaline flowing through his body, caused a heart rhythm disturbance that killed him.

    “There is no political or social cause in this courtroom,” Nelson said. “But the evidence is far greater than 9 minutes and 29 seconds.”

    Blackwell, however, rejected the argument that Floyd’s drug use or any underlying health conditions were to blame, saying it was the officer's knee that killed him.

    Minneapolis police dispatcher Jena Scurry testified that she saw part of Floyd's arrest unfolding via a city surveillance camera and was so disturbed that she called a duty sergeant. Scurry said she grew concerned because the officers hadn’t moved after several minutes.

    “You can call me a snitch if you want to,” Scurry said in her call to the sergeant, which was played in court. She said she wouldn't normally call the sergeant about the use of force because it was beyond the scope of her duties, but “my instincts were telling me that something is wrong.”

    The video played during opening statements was posted to Facebook by a bystander who witnessed Floyd being arrested after he was accused of trying to pass a counterfeit $20 bill at a convenience store. Jurors watched intently as the video played on multiple screens, with one drawing a sharp breath as Floyd said he couldn’t breathe. Chauvin sat quietly and took notes, looking up at the video periodically.

    Full Coverage:
     

    “My stomach hurts. My neck hurts. Everything hurts,” Floyd says in the video, and: “I can’t breathe, officer.” Onlookers repeatedly shout at the officer to get off Floyd, saying he is not moving, breathing or resisting. One woman, identifying herself as a city Fire Department employee, shouts at Chauvin to check Floyd’s pulse.

    The prosecutor said the case was “not about split-second decision-making” by a police officer but excessive force against someone who was handcuffed and not resisting.

    Blackwell said the Fire Department employee wanted to help but was warned off by Chauvin, who pointed Mace at her.

    “She wanted to check on his pulse, check on Mr. Floyd’s well-being,” the prosecutor said. “She did her best to intervene. ... She couldn’t help.”

    The timeline differs from the initial account submitted last May by prosecutors, who said Chauvin held his knee on Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes, 46 seconds. The time 8:46 soon became a rallying cry in the case. But it was revised during the investigation.

    Fourteen jurors or alternates are hearing the case — eight of them white, six of them Black or multiracial, according to the court. Only 12 will deliberate; the judge has not said which two will be alternates.

    Before the trial began, Floyd family attorney Ben Crump blasted the idea that the trial would be a tough test for jurors.

    "We know that if George Floyd was a white American citizen, and he suffered this painful, tortuous death with a police officer’s knee on his neck, nobody, nobody, would be saying this is a hard case,” he said.

    After the day's proceedings, a few hundred protesters gathered outside the courthouse. Speakers called for justice for Floyd and others whose lives were lost in encounters with police. One speaker, Jaylani Hussein, shouted: “Police officers are not above the law!”

    The downtown Minneapolis courthouse has been fortified with concrete barriers, fences and barbed and razor wire. City and state leaders are determined to prevent a repeat of the riots that followed Floyd’s death, with National Guard troops already mobilized.

    Chauvin’s trial is being livestreamed over the objections of the prosecution. Judge Peter Cahill ordered that cameras be allowed largely because of the pandemic and the required social distancing, which left almost no room for spectators in the courtroom.

    Three other former officers go on trial in August because Cahill ruled there wasn't enough space to try all four at once.

    ___

    Find AP’s full coverage of the death of George Floyd at: https://apnews.com/hub/death-of-george-floyd


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  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 3,614
    I live in St. Paul and while I've never had it in me to watch the minutiae of any trial, I'll have to keep my eye on it for the sake of knowing when the acquittal is coming. It's going to be crazier than last year. 

    To probably say the same thing others have, I understand the need to erupt, but burning stuff down isn't particularly productive and it definitely helps white nationalist America dig in its heels. As a white guy, I guess I have the privilege to think about this but without those riots, Covid is the only headliner of 2020 and Biden wins easily. My point being that those riots and the upcoming riots can tip suburban whites towards the growing white nationalist movement.

    For the days after the acquittal, I'll be very careful about doing anything.  Even taking the dog out. It will be the latest in a long line of clear messages that cops can do what they want to anyone; particularly blacks. They kill them under just about any circumstances and their apprehension of white mass shooters shows you that they don't have to; they just like to. And they'll never be punished for it. Never. To be honest, I'm not really sure what people are supposed to do. Because none of it is working. And if you're black, you could be killed by a cop for pretty much doing nothing. (cue the "Chicago" comments).
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  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 14,449
    edited March 30
    OnWis97 said:
    I live in St. Paul and while I've never had it in me to watch the minutiae of any trial, I'll have to keep my eye on it for the sake of knowing when the acquittal is coming. It's going to be crazier than last year. 

    To probably say the same thing others have, I understand the need to erupt, but burning stuff down isn't particularly productive and it definitely helps white nationalist America dig in its heels. As a white guy, I guess I have the privilege to think about this but without those riots, Covid is the only headliner of 2020 and Biden wins easily. My point being that those riots and the upcoming riots can tip suburban whites towards the growing white nationalist movement.

    For the days after the acquittal, I'll be very careful about doing anything.  Even taking the dog out. It will be the latest in a long line of clear messages that cops can do what they want to anyone; particularly blacks. They kill them under just about any circumstances and their apprehension of white mass shooters shows you that they don't have to; they just like to. And they'll never be punished for it. Never. To be honest, I'm not really sure what people are supposed to do. Because none of it is working. And if you're black, you could be killed by a cop for pretty much doing nothing. (cue the "Chicago" comments).
    Will the riots (if there are any) tip suburban whites "towards the growing white nationalist movement," or just tip them away from the democratic party? Or is the same thing because all non-democrats are white supremacists? 

    Cops don't kill blacks "under just about any circumstances." And "If you're black, you could be killed by a cop for pretty much doing nothing" sounds a lot like the fear-mongering that has been coming from the left since Floyd's death. And that's not to say there's not some truth to it. Elijah McClain is a perfect example of someone being killed for nothing. But more often than not, the accused is resisting arrest. And I'm not saying that should result in death, but it's also not being killed "for pretty much doing nothing." 

    The white mass shooters will be punished with life imprisonment. Maybe even a death sentence, which I'd be for.
    Post edited by Ledbetterman10 on
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  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 3,614
    edited March 30
    OnWis97 said:
    I live in St. Paul and while I've never had it in me to watch the minutiae of any trial, I'll have to keep my eye on it for the sake of knowing when the acquittal is coming. It's going to be crazier than last year. 

    To probably say the same thing others have, I understand the need to erupt, but burning stuff down isn't particularly productive and it definitely helps white nationalist America dig in its heels. As a white guy, I guess I have the privilege to think about this but without those riots, Covid is the only headliner of 2020 and Biden wins easily. My point being that those riots and the upcoming riots can tip suburban whites towards the growing white nationalist movement.

    For the days after the acquittal, I'll be very careful about doing anything.  Even taking the dog out. It will be the latest in a long line of clear messages that cops can do what they want to anyone; particularly blacks. They kill them under just about any circumstances and their apprehension of white mass shooters shows you that they don't have to; they just like to. And they'll never be punished for it. Never. To be honest, I'm not really sure what people are supposed to do. Because none of it is working. And if you're black, you could be killed by a cop for pretty much doing nothing. (cue the "Chicago" comments).
    Will the riots (if there are any) tip suburban whites "towards the growing white nationalist movement," or just tip them away from the democratic party? Or is the same thing because all non-democrats are white supremacists? 

    Cops don't kill blacks "under just about any circumstances." And "If you're black, you could be killed by a cop for pretty much doing nothing" sounds a lot like the fear-mongering that has been coming from the left since Floyd's death. And that's not to say there's not some truth to it. Elijah McClain is a perfect example of someone being killed for nothing. But more often than not, the accused is resisting arrest. And I'm not saying that should result in death, but it's also not being killed "for pretty much doing nothing." 

    The white mass shooters will be punished with life imprisonment. Maybe even a death sentence, which I'd be for.
    I don't give a shit about the weak Dem party; it's just the only side that can beat the GOP, which, yeah, is rooted in white nationalism. Whites are angry (about what, I'm not clear) and seeing blacks riot in the streets opens the door for MAGA (AKA the GOP) to exploit that fear.

    So looking at what you bolded:
    • Yeah, I think the white nationalist movement is so embedded in white conservative culture that it's pretty much recruiting when it can.
    • "Kill them under just about any circumstance" was poorly worded. It's more "there are few circumstances in which a cop could not find an excuse."
    • "They'll never be punished for it." Well, a jury in Minneapolis has the chance to prove me wrong. Hey, a Minneapolis jury did convict once (a cop of color and a white victim, though). That's my cynicism coming through a bit, but it's not like it's not rooted in history.
    • I stand by "if you're black you could be killed by a cop for doing pretty much nothing." Hell, even you gave an example. Black kids have to be taught things I was never taught about how to behave in the presence of a cop. I'm not a good butt-kisser and I never say "sir," etc. Statistically are they more likely to be killed in a car wreck than by a cop? Probably. But imagine going through life having to make sure that your hands are in the right place, you use the right "respectful" terminology, and you don't accidentally twitch or the people that are protecting whites might kill you.
    My point about the white mass shooters isn't what should happen to them now. I'm glad they bring them in without incident when they can. No reasonable person doesn't want them to be at least locked up for life. The point is that it's pretty solid evidence that cops apprehend legitimately dangerous people without incident and they don't need to pull the trigger on black guys selling cigarettes and passing off fake 20s. The difference in how they handle apprehending by race is stark but you keep telling yourself that they should have complied.
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  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 14,449
    OnWis97 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    I live in St. Paul and while I've never had it in me to watch the minutiae of any trial, I'll have to keep my eye on it for the sake of knowing when the acquittal is coming. It's going to be crazier than last year. 

    To probably say the same thing others have, I understand the need to erupt, but burning stuff down isn't particularly productive and it definitely helps white nationalist America dig in its heels. As a white guy, I guess I have the privilege to think about this but without those riots, Covid is the only headliner of 2020 and Biden wins easily. My point being that those riots and the upcoming riots can tip suburban whites towards the growing white nationalist movement.

    For the days after the acquittal, I'll be very careful about doing anything.  Even taking the dog out. It will be the latest in a long line of clear messages that cops can do what they want to anyone; particularly blacks. They kill them under just about any circumstances and their apprehension of white mass shooters shows you that they don't have to; they just like to. And they'll never be punished for it. Never. To be honest, I'm not really sure what people are supposed to do. Because none of it is working. And if you're black, you could be killed by a cop for pretty much doing nothing. (cue the "Chicago" comments).
    Will the riots (if there are any) tip suburban whites "towards the growing white nationalist movement," or just tip them away from the democratic party? Or is the same thing because all non-democrats are white supremacists? 

    Cops don't kill blacks "under just about any circumstances." And "If you're black, you could be killed by a cop for pretty much doing nothing" sounds a lot like the fear-mongering that has been coming from the left since Floyd's death. And that's not to say there's not some truth to it. Elijah McClain is a perfect example of someone being killed for nothing. But more often than not, the accused is resisting arrest. And I'm not saying that should result in death, but it's also not being killed "for pretty much doing nothing." 

    The white mass shooters will be punished with life imprisonment. Maybe even a death sentence, which I'd be for.
    I don't give a shit about the weak Dem party; it's just the only side that can beat the GOP, which, yeah, is rooted in white nationalism. Whites are angry (about what, I'm not clear) and seeing blacks riot in the streets opens the door for MAGA (AKA the GOP) to exploit that fear.

    So looking at what you bolded:
    • Yeah, I think the white nationalist movement is so embedded in white conservative culture that it's pretty much recruiting when it can.
    • "Kill them under just about any circumstance" was poorly worded. It's more "there are few circumstances in which a cop could not find an excuse."
    • "They'll never be punished for it." Well, a jury in Minneapolis has the chance to prove me wrong. Hey, a Minneapolis jury did convict once (a cop of color and a white victim, though). That's my cynicism coming through a bit, but it's not like it's not rooted in history.
    • I stand by "if you're black you could be killed by a cop for doing pretty much nothing." Hell, even you gave an example. Black kids have to be taught things I was never taught about how to behave in the presence of a cop. I'm not a good butt-kisser and I never say "sir," etc. Statistically are they more likely to be killed in a car wreck than by a cop? Probably. But imagine going through life having to make sure that your hands are in the right place, you use the right "respectful" terminology, and you don't accidentally twitch or the people that are protecting whites might kill you.
    My point about the white mass shooters isn't what should happen to them now. I'm glad they bring them in without incident when they can. No reasonable person doesn't want them to be at least locked up for life. The point is that it's pretty solid evidence that cops apprehend legitimately dangerous people without incident and they don't need to pull the trigger on black guys selling cigarettes and passing off fake 20s. The difference in how they handle apprehending by race is stark but you keep telling yourself that they should have complied.
    When you said “they’ll never be punished for it,” I thought you meant the mass shooters that you mentioned in the previous sentence. But you were talking about the cops. And I agree with that. And I don’t think that Minneapolis jury is going to prove you wrong. 

    I don’t disagree that there’s a racial disparity in policing. I don’t even deny there’s white privilege.  But I do think that most (not all) that were killed wouldn’t have been if they complied. So I will “keep telling myself” that. 
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  • tbergstbergs Posts: 7,772
    OnWis97 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    I live in St. Paul and while I've never had it in me to watch the minutiae of any trial, I'll have to keep my eye on it for the sake of knowing when the acquittal is coming. It's going to be crazier than last year. 

    To probably say the same thing others have, I understand the need to erupt, but burning stuff down isn't particularly productive and it definitely helps white nationalist America dig in its heels. As a white guy, I guess I have the privilege to think about this but without those riots, Covid is the only headliner of 2020 and Biden wins easily. My point being that those riots and the upcoming riots can tip suburban whites towards the growing white nationalist movement.

    For the days after the acquittal, I'll be very careful about doing anything.  Even taking the dog out. It will be the latest in a long line of clear messages that cops can do what they want to anyone; particularly blacks. They kill them under just about any circumstances and their apprehension of white mass shooters shows you that they don't have to; they just like to. And they'll never be punished for it. Never. To be honest, I'm not really sure what people are supposed to do. Because none of it is working. And if you're black, you could be killed by a cop for pretty much doing nothing. (cue the "Chicago" comments).
    Will the riots (if there are any) tip suburban whites "towards the growing white nationalist movement," or just tip them away from the democratic party? Or is the same thing because all non-democrats are white supremacists? 

    Cops don't kill blacks "under just about any circumstances." And "If you're black, you could be killed by a cop for pretty much doing nothing" sounds a lot like the fear-mongering that has been coming from the left since Floyd's death. And that's not to say there's not some truth to it. Elijah McClain is a perfect example of someone being killed for nothing. But more often than not, the accused is resisting arrest. And I'm not saying that should result in death, but it's also not being killed "for pretty much doing nothing." 

    The white mass shooters will be punished with life imprisonment. Maybe even a death sentence, which I'd be for.
    I don't give a shit about the weak Dem party; it's just the only side that can beat the GOP, which, yeah, is rooted in white nationalism. Whites are angry (about what, I'm not clear) and seeing blacks riot in the streets opens the door for MAGA (AKA the GOP) to exploit that fear.

    So looking at what you bolded:
    • Yeah, I think the white nationalist movement is so embedded in white conservative culture that it's pretty much recruiting when it can.
    • "Kill them under just about any circumstance" was poorly worded. It's more "there are few circumstances in which a cop could not find an excuse."
    • "They'll never be punished for it." Well, a jury in Minneapolis has the chance to prove me wrong. Hey, a Minneapolis jury did convict once (a cop of color and a white victim, though). That's my cynicism coming through a bit, but it's not like it's not rooted in history.
    • I stand by "if you're black you could be killed by a cop for doing pretty much nothing." Hell, even you gave an example. Black kids have to be taught things I was never taught about how to behave in the presence of a cop. I'm not a good butt-kisser and I never say "sir," etc. Statistically are they more likely to be killed in a car wreck than by a cop? Probably. But imagine going through life having to make sure that your hands are in the right place, you use the right "respectful" terminology, and you don't accidentally twitch or the people that are protecting whites might kill you.
    My point about the white mass shooters isn't what should happen to them now. I'm glad they bring them in without incident when they can. No reasonable person doesn't want them to be at least locked up for life. The point is that it's pretty solid evidence that cops apprehend legitimately dangerous people without incident and they don't need to pull the trigger on black guys selling cigarettes and passing off fake 20s. The difference in how they handle apprehending by race is stark but you keep telling yourself that they should have complied.
    When you said “they’ll never be punished for it,” I thought you meant the mass shooters that you mentioned in the previous sentence. But you were talking about the cops. And I agree with that. And I don’t think that Minneapolis jury is going to prove you wrong. 

    I don’t disagree that there’s a racial disparity in policing. I don’t even deny there’s white privilege.  But I do think that most (not all) that were killed wouldn’t have been if they complied. So I will “keep telling myself” that. 
    Yeah, I disagree with the comply part. Most didn't have a deadly weapon or pose a legitimate threat so it wasn't about compliance, but fear of the unknown and unseen that may be hidden. Cops, unfortunately, are the most scared group of people in America, but they always bring weapons to the scene.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 33,824
    brianlux said:
    I’m sure most here are against violent protesters me included! I just don’t know how much more these communities will put up with if these cops who killed Floyd walk.
    There will be protests and rioting and violence and so on....but it’s already been 400+ years. 
    Nothing is going to stop racism until we’re all one color or we’re all dead. 
    You may well be right.  Honestly though, I don't like either choice. 
    One could argue that humans should die off for the sake of the planet.  Hard to argue that one, but then who wants to die or see loved ones die?  No, I'd rather humans learn to live in balanced ecological harmony with the planet rather than kill the planet or die off ourselves.
    As for all one color, a close relative of mine was at one time strongly in favor of the idea of people inter-marrying until we are all one color.  I think her motives for wanting that were good and sincere, but I strongly object to the idea.  No Africans?  No Asians?  No tribal peoples?  No Irish? So Chileans?  No Inuit?  No Spanish?  No French? No Bedouins? No Polynesians? Etc...
    No way do I like that idea.  All of the races and nations and peoples have added so much marvelous variety to our world.  How can one not see that?  How can one not marvel at our individual and differing contributions to the wonderful stew that is humanity?
    One color, one creed, one culture?  That sounds like death to me. 
    I agree with everything you’ve said, no argument from me, I’m just not very optimistic. I feel as strongly as you about the diversity of humans and the enormous benefits we receive from other cultures.  I guess I’m just a realist. 

    Oh man, I get it.  It's hard to be optimistic.  I'm reading this book about late Medieval history called The Last Knight: The Twilight of the Middle Ages and the Birth of the Modern Era by Norman Cantor (good book, not great) and although most nations are less brutal than 14th Century Europe was, and are not as war-possessed and antagonistic to other groups of people as they were then, I can't help but think that if we've only come this far in 700 years, at this rate it will take several more centuries of progress to reach a point of fairness and civility among nations.  Maybe never?  It's hard not to think that.
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,287
    The firefighter/EMT is not a very good witness. Makes me wonder how much prep the prosecution put into their witnesses. 
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  • static111static111 Posts: 2,355
    edited March 30
    OnWis97 said:
    I live in St. Paul and while I've never had it in me to watch the minutiae of any trial, I'll have to keep my eye on it for the sake of knowing when the acquittal is coming. It's going to be crazier than last year. 

    To probably say the same thing others have, I understand the need to erupt, but burning stuff down isn't particularly productive and it definitely helps white nationalist America dig in its heels. As a white guy, I guess I have the privilege to think about this but without those riots, Covid is the only headliner of 2020 and Biden wins easily. My point being that those riots and the upcoming riots can tip suburban whites towards the growing white nationalist movement.

    For the days after the acquittal, I'll be very careful about doing anything.  Even taking the dog out. It will be the latest in a long line of clear messages that cops can do what they want to anyone; particularly blacks. They kill them under just about any circumstances and their apprehension of white mass shooters shows you that they don't have to; they just like to. And they'll never be punished for it. Never. To be honest, I'm not really sure what people are supposed to do. Because none of it is working. And if you're black, you could be killed by a cop for pretty much doing nothing. (cue the "Chicago" comments).
    Will the riots (if there are any) tip suburban whites "towards the growing white nationalist movement," or just tip them away from the democratic party? Or is the same thing because all non-democrats are white supremacists? 

    Cops don't kill blacks "under just about any circumstances." And "If you're black, you could be killed by a cop for pretty much doing nothing" sounds a lot like the fear-mongering that has been coming from the left since Floyd's death. And that's not to say there's not some truth to it. Elijah McClain is a perfect example of someone being killed for nothing. But more often than not, the accused is resisting arrest. And I'm not saying that should result in death, but it's also not being killed "for pretty much doing nothing." 

    The white mass shooters will be punished with life imprisonment. Maybe even a death sentence, which I'd be for.
    Jesus Christ.  Resisting arrest can absolutely be doing just about nothing.  Cops abuse their power constantly.  Arrested for being black, better not resist due to a cop abusing their authority or you might get killed and it will be your fault because you were doing slightly more than resisting. What kind of twisted logic must one poses to believe that garbage.  

    If the banner of the Republican Party is catering to white nationalists to get votes under the guise of “small government and the deficit” well yeah republicans are part of the white nationalist movement.

    pubishment with a death sentence for a mass murder is nothing but a false equivalency and a poor bait and switch.
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 14,449
    static111 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    I live in St. Paul and while I've never had it in me to watch the minutiae of any trial, I'll have to keep my eye on it for the sake of knowing when the acquittal is coming. It's going to be crazier than last year. 

    To probably say the same thing others have, I understand the need to erupt, but burning stuff down isn't particularly productive and it definitely helps white nationalist America dig in its heels. As a white guy, I guess I have the privilege to think about this but without those riots, Covid is the only headliner of 2020 and Biden wins easily. My point being that those riots and the upcoming riots can tip suburban whites towards the growing white nationalist movement.

    For the days after the acquittal, I'll be very careful about doing anything.  Even taking the dog out. It will be the latest in a long line of clear messages that cops can do what they want to anyone; particularly blacks. They kill them under just about any circumstances and their apprehension of white mass shooters shows you that they don't have to; they just like to. And they'll never be punished for it. Never. To be honest, I'm not really sure what people are supposed to do. Because none of it is working. And if you're black, you could be killed by a cop for pretty much doing nothing. (cue the "Chicago" comments).
    Will the riots (if there are any) tip suburban whites "towards the growing white nationalist movement," or just tip them away from the democratic party? Or is the same thing because all non-democrats are white supremacists? 

    Cops don't kill blacks "under just about any circumstances." And "If you're black, you could be killed by a cop for pretty much doing nothing" sounds a lot like the fear-mongering that has been coming from the left since Floyd's death. And that's not to say there's not some truth to it. Elijah McClain is a perfect example of someone being killed for nothing. But more often than not, the accused is resisting arrest. And I'm not saying that should result in death, but it's also not being killed "for pretty much doing nothing." 

    The white mass shooters will be punished with life imprisonment. Maybe even a death sentence, which I'd be for.
    Jesus Christ.  Resisting arrest can absolutely be doing just about nothing.  Cops abuse their power constantly.  Arrested for being black, better not resist due to a cop abusing their authority or you might get killed and it will be your fault because you were doing slightly more than resisting. What kind of twisted logic must one poses to believe that garbage.  
    I’m not trying to absolve cops for abusing their authority. But ya know what’s even less logical than being a white guy on a message board suggesting you shouldn’t resist arrest? Being the black guy that resists arrest in a WHITE SUPREMACIST country patrolled by RACIST cops that will abuse their authority and kill you. Just from a “logic” standpoint. 

    Easy for me to say though right?
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  • static111static111 Posts: 2,355
    static111 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    I live in St. Paul and while I've never had it in me to watch the minutiae of any trial, I'll have to keep my eye on it for the sake of knowing when the acquittal is coming. It's going to be crazier than last year. 

    To probably say the same thing others have, I understand the need to erupt, but burning stuff down isn't particularly productive and it definitely helps white nationalist America dig in its heels. As a white guy, I guess I have the privilege to think about this but without those riots, Covid is the only headliner of 2020 and Biden wins easily. My point being that those riots and the upcoming riots can tip suburban whites towards the growing white nationalist movement.

    For the days after the acquittal, I'll be very careful about doing anything.  Even taking the dog out. It will be the latest in a long line of clear messages that cops can do what they want to anyone; particularly blacks. They kill them under just about any circumstances and their apprehension of white mass shooters shows you that they don't have to; they just like to. And they'll never be punished for it. Never. To be honest, I'm not really sure what people are supposed to do. Because none of it is working. And if you're black, you could be killed by a cop for pretty much doing nothing. (cue the "Chicago" comments).
    Will the riots (if there are any) tip suburban whites "towards the growing white nationalist movement," or just tip them away from the democratic party? Or is the same thing because all non-democrats are white supremacists? 

    Cops don't kill blacks "under just about any circumstances." And "If you're black, you could be killed by a cop for pretty much doing nothing" sounds a lot like the fear-mongering that has been coming from the left since Floyd's death. And that's not to say there's not some truth to it. Elijah McClain is a perfect example of someone being killed for nothing. But more often than not, the accused is resisting arrest. And I'm not saying that should result in death, but it's also not being killed "for pretty much doing nothing." 

    The white mass shooters will be punished with life imprisonment. Maybe even a death sentence, which I'd be for.
    Jesus Christ.  Resisting arrest can absolutely be doing just about nothing.  Cops abuse their power constantly.  Arrested for being black, better not resist due to a cop abusing their authority or you might get killed and it will be your fault because you were doing slightly more than resisting. What kind of twisted logic must one poses to believe that garbage.  
    I’m not trying to absolve cops for abusing their authority. But ya know what’s even less logical than being a white guy on a message board suggesting you shouldn’t resist arrest? Being the black guy that resists arrest in a WHITE SUPREMACIST country patrolled by RACIST cops that will abuse their authority and kill you. Just from a “logic” standpoint. 

    Easy for me to say though right?
    Very easy.  We need cops to be held accountable, no qualified immunity no charges of resisting arrest, more body cams and consequences.  Imagine if you could constantly fuck off at your own job and cite being afraid or some such bullshit and never pay a price or face a consequence, imagine if everyone in your field was treated this way, quality of service would probably hit Rick bottom.  These people are just working jobs ffs they aren’t heroes. 

    Imagine if cops constantly eyed you and treated you that way and you had a lifetime of seeing friends and family abused. I’m sure it would be real easy to just comply.  

    Cops have too much power and too few consequences these days. 

    I swear some people love cops so much their solution would be for cops to kill all races at the same rate per capita, rather than have any meaningful reform.
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 14,449
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    I live in St. Paul and while I've never had it in me to watch the minutiae of any trial, I'll have to keep my eye on it for the sake of knowing when the acquittal is coming. It's going to be crazier than last year. 

    To probably say the same thing others have, I understand the need to erupt, but burning stuff down isn't particularly productive and it definitely helps white nationalist America dig in its heels. As a white guy, I guess I have the privilege to think about this but without those riots, Covid is the only headliner of 2020 and Biden wins easily. My point being that those riots and the upcoming riots can tip suburban whites towards the growing white nationalist movement.

    For the days after the acquittal, I'll be very careful about doing anything.  Even taking the dog out. It will be the latest in a long line of clear messages that cops can do what they want to anyone; particularly blacks. They kill them under just about any circumstances and their apprehension of white mass shooters shows you that they don't have to; they just like to. And they'll never be punished for it. Never. To be honest, I'm not really sure what people are supposed to do. Because none of it is working. And if you're black, you could be killed by a cop for pretty much doing nothing. (cue the "Chicago" comments).
    Will the riots (if there are any) tip suburban whites "towards the growing white nationalist movement," or just tip them away from the democratic party? Or is the same thing because all non-democrats are white supremacists? 

    Cops don't kill blacks "under just about any circumstances." And "If you're black, you could be killed by a cop for pretty much doing nothing" sounds a lot like the fear-mongering that has been coming from the left since Floyd's death. And that's not to say there's not some truth to it. Elijah McClain is a perfect example of someone being killed for nothing. But more often than not, the accused is resisting arrest. And I'm not saying that should result in death, but it's also not being killed "for pretty much doing nothing." 

    The white mass shooters will be punished with life imprisonment. Maybe even a death sentence, which I'd be for.
    Jesus Christ.  Resisting arrest can absolutely be doing just about nothing.  Cops abuse their power constantly.  Arrested for being black, better not resist due to a cop abusing their authority or you might get killed and it will be your fault because you were doing slightly more than resisting. What kind of twisted logic must one poses to believe that garbage.  
    I’m not trying to absolve cops for abusing their authority. But ya know what’s even less logical than being a white guy on a message board suggesting you shouldn’t resist arrest? Being the black guy that resists arrest in a WHITE SUPREMACIST country patrolled by RACIST cops that will abuse their authority and kill you. Just from a “logic” standpoint. 

    Easy for me to say though right?
    Very easy.  We need cops to be held accountable, no qualified immunity no charges of resisting arrest, more body cams and consequences.  Imagine if you could constantly fuck off at your own job and cite being afraid or some such bullshit and never pay a price or face a consequence, imagine if everyone in your field was treated this way, quality of service would probably hit Rick bottom.  These people are just working jobs ffs they aren’t heroes. 

    Imagine if cops constantly eyed you and treated you that way and you had a lifetime of seeing friends and family abused. I’m sure it would be real easy to just comply.  

    Cops have too much power and too few consequences these days. 

    I swear some people love cops so much their solution would be for cops to kill all races at the same rate per capita, rather than have any meaningful reform.
    Yeah I agree with with all of this except the stupid final paragraph and the first two words “very easy.” If it was very easy, all those regulations would’ve been in place a long time ago. 
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  • static111static111 Posts: 2,355
    edited March 31
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    I live in St. Paul and while I've never had it in me to watch the minutiae of any trial, I'll have to keep my eye on it for the sake of knowing when the acquittal is coming. It's going to be crazier than last year. 

    To probably say the same thing others have, I understand the need to erupt, but burning stuff down isn't particularly productive and it definitely helps white nationalist America dig in its heels. As a white guy, I guess I have the privilege to think about this but without those riots, Covid is the only headliner of 2020 and Biden wins easily. My point being that those riots and the upcoming riots can tip suburban whites towards the growing white nationalist movement.

    For the days after the acquittal, I'll be very careful about doing anything.  Even taking the dog out. It will be the latest in a long line of clear messages that cops can do what they want to anyone; particularly blacks. They kill them under just about any circumstances and their apprehension of white mass shooters shows you that they don't have to; they just like to. And they'll never be punished for it. Never. To be honest, I'm not really sure what people are supposed to do. Because none of it is working. And if you're black, you could be killed by a cop for pretty much doing nothing. (cue the "Chicago" comments).
    Will the riots (if there are any) tip suburban whites "towards the growing white nationalist movement," or just tip them away from the democratic party? Or is the same thing because all non-democrats are white supremacists? 

    Cops don't kill blacks "under just about any circumstances." And "If you're black, you could be killed by a cop for pretty much doing nothing" sounds a lot like the fear-mongering that has been coming from the left since Floyd's death. And that's not to say there's not some truth to it. Elijah McClain is a perfect example of someone being killed for nothing. But more often than not, the accused is resisting arrest. And I'm not saying that should result in death, but it's also not being killed "for pretty much doing nothing." 

    The white mass shooters will be punished with life imprisonment. Maybe even a death sentence, which I'd be for.
    Jesus Christ.  Resisting arrest can absolutely be doing just about nothing.  Cops abuse their power constantly.  Arrested for being black, better not resist due to a cop abusing their authority or you might get killed and it will be your fault because you were doing slightly more than resisting. What kind of twisted logic must one poses to believe that garbage.  
    I’m not trying to absolve cops for abusing their authority. But ya know what’s even less logical than being a white guy on a message board suggesting you shouldn’t resist arrest? Being the black guy that resists arrest in a WHITE SUPREMACIST country patrolled by RACIST cops that will abuse their authority and kill you. Just from a “logic” standpoint. 

    Easy for me to say though right?
    Very easy.  We need cops to be held accountable, no qualified immunity no charges of resisting arrest, more body cams and consequences.  Imagine if you could constantly fuck off at your own job and cite being afraid or some such bullshit and never pay a price or face a consequence, imagine if everyone in your field was treated this way, quality of service would probably hit Rick bottom.  These people are just working jobs ffs they aren’t heroes. 

    Imagine if cops constantly eyed you and treated you that way and you had a lifetime of seeing friends and family abused. I’m sure it would be real easy to just comply.  

    Cops have too much power and too few consequences these days. 

    I swear some people love cops so much their solution would be for cops to kill all races at the same rate per capita, rather than have any meaningful reform.
    Yeah I agree with with all of this except the stupid final paragraph and the first two words “very easy.” If it was very easy, all those regulations would’ve been in place a long time ago. 
    You don’t think there are people out there that would rather just have cops kill all races at the same per capita so they could justify the killing of minorities?  I do, all of these racists are real pieces of shit and absolutely would be ok with cops killing more whites at the cost of not being called racists.

    first “very easy” was In Response to mace saying easy for me to say. Like I was agreeing.  It’s easy to say just comply from t he sidelines
    Post edited by static111 on
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