3M Ordered - No N95 Masks to Canada

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Comments

  • 1ThoughtKnown
    1ThoughtKnown Posts: 6,155
    edited April 2020

    These bully tactics are abhorrent. The war is on the virus, not your allies. 
    Post edited by 1ThoughtKnown on
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,451
    mace1229 said:
    Like my analogy or not. I still stand by it. We are short on X. Why should we lend out X to someone else when we ourselves don’t have enough of X? Whether it’s masks, money or whoopee cushions, doesn’t matter. Seems like a perfect analogy to me, but that doesn’t matter.
    Here’s what I see. All last week everyone was crying for Trump to enact the wartime production act. But when he prevents American exports of the exact same products everyone was furious about yesterday for not being made fast enough, he’s now horrible?
    For every mask we send out we’ll have a doctor or nurse go without one here. I don’t see what’s wrong with keeping them here. It’s not like we’re keeping them just in case or to build up a stockpile. They are short here, people who need them are going to work every day without them.


    Like you said, Trump can enact wartime production of goods needed, so how about instead of turning into isolationist America, he uses his power to have production of these masks increased and made by other companies. Instead, he takes to Twitter (his bully pulpit) and ridicules or threatens companies, leaders and countries. Be a fucking leader. Instead of bullshit press conferences to tout how many people watched it, have your team contacting major manufacturing companies around the country to see who has a facility and capability of transforming their plants into much needed production of ventilators and masks. Then make it happen. We don't need to defend stupid decisions and selfish actions cloaked in a false sense of patriotism and the American flag. It's gross.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • myoung321
    myoung321 Posts: 2,855
    I'm old enough to remember when the U.S. was respected and during times of trouble we helped others...  The good old days!  

    Get offf the Lawn!!!!!!
    "The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
     


  • 1ThoughtKnown
    1ThoughtKnown Posts: 6,155
    tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    Like my analogy or not. I still stand by it. We are short on X. Why should we lend out X to someone else when we ourselves don’t have enough of X? Whether it’s masks, money or whoopee cushions, doesn’t matter. Seems like a perfect analogy to me, but that doesn’t matter.
    Here’s what I see. All last week everyone was crying for Trump to enact the wartime production act. But when he prevents American exports of the exact same products everyone was furious about yesterday for not being made fast enough, he’s now horrible?
    For every mask we send out we’ll have a doctor or nurse go without one here. I don’t see what’s wrong with keeping them here. It’s not like we’re keeping them just in case or to build up a stockpile. They are short here, people who need them are going to work every day without them.


    Like you said, Trump can enact wartime production of goods needed, so how about instead of turning into isolationist America, he uses his power to have production of these masks increased and made by other companies. Instead, he takes to Twitter (his bully pulpit) and ridicules or threatens companies, leaders and countries. Be a fucking leader. Instead of bullshit press conferences to tout how many people watched it, have your team contacting major manufacturing companies around the country to see who has a facility and capability of transforming their plants into much needed production of ventilators and masks. Then make it happen. We don't need to defend stupid decisions and selfish actions cloaked in a false sense of patriotism and the American flag. It's gross.
    I couldn’t agree more. Trump is just so damned consumed with winning a fucking election and making his “base” happy that rational decisions and compassion don’t exist. The narcissism is astounding. 
  • myoung321
    myoung321 Posts: 2,855
    edited April 2020
    mace1229 said:
    Like my analogy or not. I still stand by it. We are short on X. Why should we lend out X to someone else when we ourselves don’t have enough of X? Whether it’s masks, money or whoopee cushions, doesn’t matter. Seems like a perfect analogy to me, but that doesn’t matter.
    Here’s what I see. All last week everyone was crying for Trump to enact the wartime production act. But when he prevents American exports of the exact same products everyone was furious about yesterday for not being made fast enough, he’s now horrible?
    For every mask we send out we’ll have a doctor or nurse go without one here. I don’t see what’s wrong with keeping them here. It’s not like we’re keeping them just in case or to build up a stockpile. They are short here, people who need them are going to work every day without them.


    Yet you don't question,,, WHY ARE WE SHORT? 

    The virus doesn't care about invisible borders...  Canada matters big time to our ability to recover.. See the big picture.. The Canadian/US border is next to many big US cities and only 450 miles from NYC... it matters.. 
    Post edited by myoung321 on
    "The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
     


  • 1ThoughtKnown
    1ThoughtKnown Posts: 6,155
    Really its almost hilarious. “We are Republicans and believe in a free market capitalist society! It’s worth what someone will pay for it! No matter where in the world we will sell it/buy it”

    Pandemic happens - “That was made in the US and sold to Canada? No way... we need those. You can’t sell those! They have to stay here.”
    All if sudden Republicans are lead by a true socialist. All companies are run by the state. He really is getting advice from Putin. Oh yeah and Alex Rodriguez.  
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,722
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    I have no idea what is going on in other jurisdictions.  But here in Ontario manufacturers have been lining to help.  Our Premier Doug Ford called it the “Ontario Spirit’.  Distillers have been churning out hand sanitizer and manufacturers are getting ready to roll out other PPE in the days and weeks ahead.   Our Premier also said PPE will made in Ontario in the future and we only be buying from Canadian suppliers...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • 1ThoughtKnown
    1ThoughtKnown Posts: 6,155
    mickeyrat said:
    You think this justifies stealing them from allies? Because multi-national corporations made millions selling Masks and Ventilators to China when they were in need? 
    Wow
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,863
    myoung321 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Like my analogy or not. I still stand by it. We are short on X. Why should we lend out X to someone else when we ourselves don’t have enough of X? Whether it’s masks, money or whoopee cushions, doesn’t matter. Seems like a perfect analogy to me, but that doesn’t matter.
    Here’s what I see. All last week everyone was crying for Trump to enact the wartime production act. But when he prevents American exports of the exact same products everyone was furious about yesterday for not being made fast enough, he’s now horrible?
    For every mask we send out we’ll have a doctor or nurse go without one here. I don’t see what’s wrong with keeping them here. It’s not like we’re keeping them just in case or to build up a stockpile. They are short here, people who need them are going to work every day without them.


    Yet you don't question,,, WHY ARE WE SHORT? 

    The virus doesn't care about invisible borders...  Canada matters big time to our ability to recover.. See the big picture.. The Canadian/US border is next to many big US cities and only 450 miles from NYC... it matters.. 
    who said I haven’t questioned it? 
  • myoung321
    myoung321 Posts: 2,855
    Really its almost hilarious. “We are Republicans and believe in a free market capitalist society! It’s worth what someone will pay for it! No matter where in the world we will sell it/buy it”

    Pandemic happens - “That was made in the US and sold to Canada? No way... we need those. You can’t sell those! They have to stay here.”
    All if sudden Republicans are lead by a true socialist. All companies are run by the state. He really is getting advice from Putin. Oh yeah and Alex Rodriguez.  
    Check out our Healthcare System if you think companies don't run things,,

     Putin a Socialist?  good one!! Putin's ideology is using his political power to make him and his friends rich.. Like Trump 
    "The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
     


  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856

    Sometimes in our lives we all have pain
    We all have sorrow
    But if we are wise
    We know that there's always tomorrow
    Lean on me, when you're not strong
    And I'll be your friend
    I'll help you carry on
    For it won't be long
    'Til I'm gonna need
    Somebody to lean on
    Please swallow your pride
    If I have things you need to borrow
    For no one can fill those of your needs
    That you won't let show
    You just call on me brother, when you need a hand
    We all need somebody to lean on
    I just might have a problem that you'll understand
    We all need somebody to lean on
    Lean on me, when you're not strong
    And I'll be your friend
    I'll help you carry on
    For it won't be long
    'Til I'm gonna need
    Somebody to lean on
    You just call on me brother, when you need a hand
    We all need somebody to lean on

    Clearly some don't believe these words. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,863
    edited April 2020
    mickeyrat said:
    So when was the magic moment where exporting masks went from being evil to being the right thing to do?
    This link is what doesn’t make sense to me. The US is criticized for selling masks, now were horrible for not?
    Serious question. What the difference? When was the day selling masks stoped being evil and became the right thing to do? Sometime in March I’m gathering?

    Or am I wrong? Does everyone support selling millions of masks to China a month ago?
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,722
    mickeyrat said:
    You think this justifies stealing them from allies? Because multi-national corporations made millions selling Masks and Ventilators to China when they were in need? 
    Wow
    you got that from my posting this? it was asked why we were short.

    sales to china doubled in jan from prev year then doubled again in feb After the first cases appeared in Seattle.

    so what gives you the impression I condone this or anything fuckstick does
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • 1ThoughtKnown
    1ThoughtKnown Posts: 6,155
    edited April 2020
    myoung321 said:
    Really its almost hilarious. “We are Republicans and believe in a free market capitalist society! It’s worth what someone will pay for it! No matter where in the world we will sell it/buy it”

    Pandemic happens - “That was made in the US and sold to Canada? No way... we need those. You can’t sell those! They have to stay here.”
    All if sudden Republicans are lead by a true socialist. All companies are run by the state. He really is getting advice from Putin. Oh yeah and Alex Rodriguez.  
    Check out our Healthcare System if you think companies don't run things,,

     Putin a Socialist?  good one!! Putin's ideology is using his political power to make him and his friends rich.. Like Trump 
    Putin is a socialist.
    Socialism is a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

    As Lenin explained.. Socialism (in its truest sense) is the step prior to communism. The logic was a jump straight to communism would not be readily accepted. The Putin form of socialism is flawed as he is an authoritarian and corrupt.  The community as a whole is the government, but it is not run in the best interest of the people, but of Putin and his oligarch. It’s a giant scam on the Russian people. 

    You are right. It’s a good one. 
    Post edited by 1ThoughtKnown on
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,451
    mickeyrat said:
    I found this to be the most interesting part of that article:

    Trade issues

    As domestic firms kept exporting lifesaving equipment elsewhere, the Trump administration kept putting barriers on similar imports.

    According to Chad Bown, a senior researcher at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, the government continued placing tariffs on Chinese imports of many medical products into the U.S. even as the coronavirus reached our shores.

    The Trump administration announced on March 10 and March 12 that they would relax those tariffs.

    Bown called the move an acknowledgement that the administration’s trade policies were endangering public health. By the time they were relaxed, he said, tariffs already affected “nearly $5 billion of U.S. imports of medical goods from China, about 26% of all medical goods imported from all countries.”

    A week later, Trump issued an executive order invoking the Defense Production Act that gives the federal government the power to force companies to produce medical equipment and fulfill needs related to national defense before any other contracts.

    The language in the order also allows the administration to control distribution in civilian markets of “personal protective equipment and ventilators.” It’s not clear what the president will do with this authority.

    Economists are now warning that countries are using protectionist trade policies such as export bans and tariffs in an effort to keep medical supplies in their countries, and that these could backfire for hospitals and health professionals who need the supplies.

    A team at the University of St. Gallen in Switzerland said in a March 23 study that any tariffs on items will increase the prices that hospitals and health professionals pay for these products. The team recommended that governments reassess their restrictions to meet the social challenge of COVID-19.

    Bown generally supports free trade as an economic policy, but he also said it will benefit the public health response. There is too much uncertainty, he said, about which parts of the world will be hit hard by the coronavirus to cut off any areas of the world from production.

    “What the pandemic has revealed to the world is that nowhere is safe,” Bown said. “Keeping open to international trade right now, in a time of pandemic, gives you many, many more options about where you might be able to source this kind of material from.”

    USA TODAY used the latest trade data published by the U.S. Census Bureau for the analysis and looked at each commodity’s trade value based on its Harmonized System Code, known as HS code. The HS codes for personal protective equipment and ventilators are from a reference document for COVID-19 medical supplies published by the World Customs Organization.

    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739

    3M says Trump halting mask exports to Canada has 'significant humanitarian implications'


    Ontario Premier Doug Ford also weighed in, first on Twitter and then during his Friday press briefing when he unveiled specifics about the province’s COVID-19 modelling.

    Ford said he shared his disappointment about the order with U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer today and said in the future, Ontario will take matters into its own hands.

    "I can't stress how disappointed I am with President Trump for making this decision. I understand he’s thinking I’ve got to take care of my own people, but we’re connected," said Ford.

    "I’m not going to rely on President Trump, I’m not going to rely on any prime minister or president or any country ever again. Our manufacturing, we're gearing up and when those assemblies start, we’re aren’t going to stop them,” said Ford speaking to reporters.


    I can guarantee trump will be the first to whine and cry and threaten to take us to some kind of bullshit court outlined in the free trade agreement.   I think Doug Ford has the backbone to tell trump to go fuck himself...

    Give Peas A Chance…
  • 1ThoughtKnown
    1ThoughtKnown Posts: 6,155

    Sometimes in our lives we all have pain
    We all have sorrow
    But if we are wise
    We know that there's always tomorrow
    Lean on me, when you're not strong
    And I'll be your friend
    I'll help you carry on
    For it won't be long
    'Til I'm gonna need
    Somebody to lean on
    Please swallow your pride
    If I have things you need to borrow
    For no one can fill those of your needs
    That you won't let show
    You just call on me brother, when you need a hand
    We all need somebody to lean on
    I just might have a problem that you'll understand
    We all need somebody to lean on
    Lean on me, when you're not strong
    And I'll be your friend
    I'll help you carry on
    For it won't be long
    'Til I'm gonna need
    Somebody to lean on
    You just call on me brother, when you need a hand
    We all need somebody to lean on

    Clearly some don't believe these words.
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,866
    Not all of us would lie, cheat, and steal to cover up our mistakes.

    (Although some here clearly would )


    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Canada should shut the border to everyone except for for trade.  We can employ those medical personnel until the time to re-open the border.  We allow thousands of medical personnel to cross into Michigan daily and covid 19 is out of control Michigan...

    and its time Canada sends a warning shot to the US
    Give Peas A Chance…