3M Ordered - No N95 Masks to Canada

1ThoughtKnown

This is an attack on Canadian health care workers who rely on this PPE to protect themselves as they fight to help Canadians stricken with the virus.  I’d be shocked by this, except it’s Trump.  Look after our own (his votes) first... to hell with everyone else. 

gimmesometruth27

again fuck trump.

1ThoughtKnown

gimmesometruth27 said:

again fuck trump.

No doubt.  Isn’t everyone sick of all the bullying? Do the Americans who support this guy really think the US needs no friends or allies in this world?  Has nothing Canada has done for Americans in the past matter? 

It’s a WORLD crisis... we all need to help each other.... 

dignin

Not a great way to treat an ally considering everything that Canada has done for the US in the past, but no real surprise from Trump.

We won't forget.

mace1229

I really don’t get why this is so horrible. Every time I turn on the news they talk about how short we are in supplies. Doctors are reusing dirty masks. People are making them in their garage in who-knows what kind of sanitary conditions to donate them. If we can’t make enough for even ourselves, why would we export any?
If you were behind in your bills and about to lose your house and car due to lack of payments, would you loan a friend money? That doesn’t make you a bad friend if you don’t.

brianlux

"3M Ordered - No N95 Masks to Canada"   I'm not sure what this means.  Could you explain, please?

Hi!

Is this just the rules as it relates to the P Act or a separate act on top of the P Act?

dignin

brianlux said:

"3M Ordered - No N95 Masks to Canada"   I'm not sure what this means.  Could you explain, please?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/3m-n95-masks-1.5520326

oftenreading

mace1229 said:

I really don’t get why this is so horrible. Every time I turn on the news they talk about how short we are in supplies. Doctors are reusing dirty masks. People are making them in their garage in who-knows what kind of sanitary conditions to donate them. If we can’t make enough for even ourselves, why would we export any?
If you were behind in your bills and about to lose your house and car due to lack of payments, would you loan a friend money? That doesn’t make you a bad friend if you don’t.

This is really a terrible analogy. The US doesn't own these masks, and they are not lending or giving them to other countries out of the goodness of their little heart. 3M is a multinational corporation that makes products that it sells around the world. The masks destined for Canada were ordered and purchased as per applicable laws and trade agreements, just like the US purchases goods and raw materials from Canada. 

Furthermore, 3M only makes about a third of their masks in the US. Trump at this point wants all the masks manufactured in the US, as well as masks manufactured elsewhere. Guess what - some of those other countries don't particularly like these tactics and are already starting to talk about not allowing masks, or other essential products, manufactured there to go to the US, so the US may well end up with fewer masks than you would have if you had just behaved like reasonable, humanitarian minded citizens during a global crisis. 

And I don't know if this last bit is true, but I just read that some of the raw materials for the 3M masks made in the US come from Canada. I wonder if they still will. 

It's in times of crises like these that true colours really come out. 

Halifax2TheMax

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

I really don’t get why this is so horrible. Every time I turn on the news they talk about how short we are in supplies. Doctors are reusing dirty masks. People are making them in their garage in who-knows what kind of sanitary conditions to donate them. If we can’t make enough for even ourselves, why would we export any?
If you were behind in your bills and about to lose your house and car due to lack of payments, would you loan a friend money? That doesn’t make you a bad friend if you don’t.

This is really a terrible analogy. The US doesn't own these masks, and they are not lending or giving them to other countries out of the goodness of their little heart. 3M is a multinational corporation that makes products that it sells around the world. The masks destined for Canada were ordered and purchased as per applicable laws and trade agreements, just like the US purchases goods and raw materials from Canada. 

Furthermore, 3M only makes about a third of their masks in the US. Trump at this point wants all the masks manufactured in the US, as well as masks manufactured elsewhere. Guess what - some of those other countries don't particularly like these tactics and are already starting to talk about not allowing masks, or other essential products, manufactured there to go to the US, so the US may well end up with fewer masks than you would have if you had just behaved like reasonable, humanitarian minded citizens during a global crisis. 

And I don't know if this last bit is true, but I just read that some of the raw materials for the 3M masks made in the US come from Canada. I wonder if they still will. 

It's in times of crises like these that true colours really come out. 

USA USA USA! Lack of intelligence. Lack of leadership. Woot! Or is it brilliant brilliance in all its brilliancy?

dignin

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

I really don’t get why this is so horrible. Every time I turn on the news they talk about how short we are in supplies. Doctors are reusing dirty masks. People are making them in their garage in who-knows what kind of sanitary conditions to donate them. If we can’t make enough for even ourselves, why would we export any?
If you were behind in your bills and about to lose your house and car due to lack of payments, would you loan a friend money? That doesn’t make you a bad friend if you don’t.

This is really a terrible analogy. The US doesn't own these masks, and they are not lending or giving them to other countries out of the goodness of their little heart. 3M is a multinational corporation that makes products that it sells around the world. The masks destined for Canada were ordered and purchased as per applicable laws and trade agreements, just like the US purchases goods and raw materials from Canada. 

Furthermore, 3M only makes about a third of their masks in the US. Trump at this point wants all the masks manufactured in the US, as well as masks manufactured elsewhere. Guess what - some of those other countries don't particularly like these tactics and are already starting to talk about not allowing masks, or other essential products, manufactured there to go to the US, so the US may well end up with fewer masks than you would have if you had just behaved like reasonable, humanitarian minded citizens during a global crisis. 

And I don't know if this last bit is true, but I just read that some of the raw materials for the 3M masks made in the US come from Canada. I wonder if they still will. 

It's in times of crises like these that true colours really come out. 

Thanks, I didn't want to bother responding to such a terrible analogy.

I will also add this...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-trump-trudeau-us-canada-face-masks-supplies-doctors-a9446841.html

Mr Trudeau said medical equipment “goes both ways across the border,” and noted that thousands of nurses travel from Canada to work in Detroit every day.

“These are things that Americans rely on and it would be a mistake to create blockages or reduce the amount of back and forth trade of essential goods and services, including medical goods, across our border,” he said.

mace1229

Like my analogy or not. I still stand by it. We are short on X. Why should we lend out X to someone else when we ourselves don’t have enough of X? Whether it’s masks, money or whoopee cushions, doesn’t matter. Seems like a perfect analogy to me, but that doesn’t matter.

Here’s what I see. All last week everyone was crying for Trump to enact the wartime production act. But when he prevents American exports of the exact same products everyone was furious about yesterday for not being made fast enough, he’s now horrible?
For every mask we send out we’ll have a doctor or nurse go without one here. I don’t see what’s wrong with keeping them here. It’s not like we’re keeping them just in case or to build up a stockpile. They are short here, people who need them are going to work every day without them.

Halifax2TheMax

Nevermind.

F Me In The Brain

What a joke.  Trump acts on behalf of America.
Unfortunately.
This is the asshole we elected.  
What a bunch of goddamn dopes we are.

I obviously didn't vote for him but I live in the US and I hang a flag.  

Embarrassed for our country.

We get what we deserve.

PJ_Soul

This is absolutely sick, especially considering that Canada has nurses in the US helping them with the crisis right now.

oftenreading

mace1229 said:

Like my analogy or not. I still stand by it. We are short on X. Why should we lend out X to someone else when we ourselves don’t have enough of X? Whether it’s masks, money or whoopee cushions, doesn’t matter. Seems like a perfect analogy to me, but that doesn’t matter.

Here’s what I see. All last week everyone was crying for Trump to enact the wartime production act. But when he prevents American exports of the exact same products everyone was furious about yesterday for not being made fast enough, he’s now horrible?
For every mask we send out we’ll have a doctor or nurse go without one here. I don’t see what’s wrong with keeping them here. It’s not like we’re keeping them just in case or to build up a stockpile. They are short here, people who need them are going to work every day without them.

No, he's not "now horrible", he's been horrible all along; this is just another horrible decision in a long string of them. 

You reap what you sow. 

mace1229

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

Like my analogy or not. I still stand by it. We are short on X. Why should we lend out X to someone else when we ourselves don’t have enough of X? Whether it’s masks, money or whoopee cushions, doesn’t matter. Seems like a perfect analogy to me, but that doesn’t matter.

Here’s what I see. All last week everyone was crying for Trump to enact the wartime production act. But when he prevents American exports of the exact same products everyone was furious about yesterday for not being made fast enough, he’s now horrible?
For every mask we send out we’ll have a doctor or nurse go without one here. I don’t see what’s wrong with keeping them here. It’s not like we’re keeping them just in case or to build up a stockpile. They are short here, people who need them are going to work every day without them.

No, he's not "now horrible", he's been horrible all along; this is just another horrible decision in a long string of them. 

You reap what you sow. 

He’s made a lot of bad decisions about the virus. But I don’t think you could find someone in charge who hasn’t.

1ThoughtKnown

mace1229 said:

I really don’t get why this is so horrible. Every time I turn on the news they talk about how short we are in supplies. Doctors are reusing dirty masks. People are making them in their garage in who-knows what kind of sanitary conditions to donate them. If we can’t make enough for even ourselves, why would we export any?
If you were behind in your bills and about to lose your house and car due to lack of payments, would you loan a friend money? That doesn’t make you a bad friend if you don’t.

If the masks were already sold. That’s the problem 

dignin

German officials on Friday were stinging in their criticism of the Trump administration after a consignment of face masks that they said was ordered and paid for by the Berlin police was diverted en route from China.

Andreas Geisel, Berlin’s senator for the interior, said the delivery made it as far as Bangkok before being “confiscated.” In a statement he said he couldn’t provide further details of what happened at the airport but “we are currently assuming that this is related to the U.S. government’s ban on mask exports.”

“We consider this an act of modern piracy,” he said, calling on the United States to “comply with international rules”. “This is not how you deal with transatlantic partners. Even in times of global crisis, wild west methods shouldn’t rule.”

The statement did not name the company involved, saying only that it was a U.S. firm, but German press reports said the consignment was ordered from 3M.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/03/white-house-scrambles-scoop-up-medical-supplies-angering-canada-germany/

mace1229

dignin said:

German officials on Friday were stinging in their criticism of the Trump administration after a consignment of face masks that they said was ordered and paid for by the Berlin police was diverted en route from China.

Andreas Geisel, Berlin’s senator for the interior, said the delivery made it as far as Bangkok before being “confiscated.” In a statement he said he couldn’t provide further details of what happened at the airport but “we are currently assuming that this is related to the U.S. government’s ban on mask exports.”

“We consider this an act of modern piracy,” he said, calling on the United States to “comply with international rules”. “This is not how you deal with transatlantic partners. Even in times of global crisis, wild west methods shouldn’t rule.”

The statement did not name the company involved, saying only that it was a U.S. firm, but German press reports said the consignment was ordered from 3M.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/03/white-house-scrambles-scoop-up-medical-supplies-angering-canada-germany/

I read that part. Didn’t pay much attention to it when they said they couldn’t provide any details and assume I it was the US government. I need a little more reassurance than that to get me fired up.
But if accurate, I agree is wrong.

F Me In The Brain

Runaway Train.  

1ThoughtKnown

These bully tactics are abhorrent. The war is on the virus, not your allies. 

tbergs

mace1229 said:

Like my analogy or not. I still stand by it. We are short on X. Why should we lend out X to someone else when we ourselves don’t have enough of X? Whether it’s masks, money or whoopee cushions, doesn’t matter. Seems like a perfect analogy to me, but that doesn’t matter.

Here’s what I see. All last week everyone was crying for Trump to enact the wartime production act. But when he prevents American exports of the exact same products everyone was furious about yesterday for not being made fast enough, he’s now horrible?
For every mask we send out we’ll have a doctor or nurse go without one here. I don’t see what’s wrong with keeping them here. It’s not like we’re keeping them just in case or to build up a stockpile. They are short here, people who need them are going to work every day without them.

Like you said, Trump can enact wartime production of goods needed, so how about instead of turning into isolationist America, he uses his power to have production of these masks increased and made by other companies. Instead, he takes to Twitter (his bully pulpit) and ridicules or threatens companies, leaders and countries. Be a fucking leader. Instead of bullshit press conferences to tout how many people watched it, have your team contacting major manufacturing companies around the country to see who has a facility and capability of transforming their plants into much needed production of ventilators and masks. Then make it happen. We don't need to defend stupid decisions and selfish actions cloaked in a false sense of patriotism and the American flag. It's gross.

myoung321

I'm old enough to remember when the U.S. was respected and during times of trouble we helped others...  The good old days!  

Get offf the Lawn!!!!!!

1ThoughtKnown

tbergs said:

mace1229 said:

Like my analogy or not. I still stand by it. We are short on X. Why should we lend out X to someone else when we ourselves don’t have enough of X? Whether it’s masks, money or whoopee cushions, doesn’t matter. Seems like a perfect analogy to me, but that doesn’t matter.

Here’s what I see. All last week everyone was crying for Trump to enact the wartime production act. But when he prevents American exports of the exact same products everyone was furious about yesterday for not being made fast enough, he’s now horrible?
For every mask we send out we’ll have a doctor or nurse go without one here. I don’t see what’s wrong with keeping them here. It’s not like we’re keeping them just in case or to build up a stockpile. They are short here, people who need them are going to work every day without them.

Like you said, Trump can enact wartime production of goods needed, so how about instead of turning into isolationist America, he uses his power to have production of these masks increased and made by other companies. Instead, he takes to Twitter (his bully pulpit) and ridicules or threatens companies, leaders and countries. Be a fucking leader. Instead of bullshit press conferences to tout how many people watched it, have your team contacting major manufacturing companies around the country to see who has a facility and capability of transforming their plants into much needed production of ventilators and masks. Then make it happen. We don't need to defend stupid decisions and selfish actions cloaked in a false sense of patriotism and the American flag. It's gross.

I couldn’t agree more. Trump is just so damned consumed with winning a fucking election and making his “base” happy that rational decisions and compassion don’t exist. The narcissism is astounding. 

myoung321

mace1229 said:

Like my analogy or not. I still stand by it. We are short on X. Why should we lend out X to someone else when we ourselves don’t have enough of X? Whether it’s masks, money or whoopee cushions, doesn’t matter. Seems like a perfect analogy to me, but that doesn’t matter.

Here’s what I see. All last week everyone was crying for Trump to enact the wartime production act. But when he prevents American exports of the exact same products everyone was furious about yesterday for not being made fast enough, he’s now horrible?
For every mask we send out we’ll have a doctor or nurse go without one here. I don’t see what’s wrong with keeping them here. It’s not like we’re keeping them just in case or to build up a stockpile. They are short here, people who need them are going to work every day without them.

Yet you don't question,,, WHY ARE WE SHORT? 

The virus doesn't care about invisible borders...  Canada matters big time to our ability to recover.. See the big picture.. The Canadian/US border is next to many big US cities and only 450 miles from NYC... it matters.. 

1ThoughtKnown

Really its almost hilarious. “We are Republicans and believe in a free market capitalist society! It’s worth what someone will pay for it! No matter where in the world we will sell it/buy it”

Pandemic happens - “That was made in the US and sold to Canada? No way... we need those. You can’t sell those! They have to stay here.”
All if sudden Republicans are lead by a true socialist. All companies are run by the state. He really is getting advice from Putin. Oh yeah and Alex Rodriguez.  

mickeyrat

heres one reason why .....

https://www.dispatch.com/zz/news/20200403/us-exported-millions-in-masks-and-ventilators-ahead-of-coronavirus-crisis?fbclid=IwAR1a1njW37T3d7ztkNtIwQZ9tjyx-43_OPTmPLquXtT97mnMC7u3Nk_6G6E

Meltdown99

I have no idea what is going on in other jurisdictions.  But here in Ontario manufacturers have been lining to help.  Our Premier Doug Ford called it the “Ontario Spirit’.  Distillers have been churning out hand sanitizer and manufacturers are getting ready to roll out other PPE in the days and weeks ahead.   Our Premier also said PPE will made in Ontario in the future and we only be buying from Canadian suppliers...

1ThoughtKnown

mickeyrat said:

heres one reason why .....

https://www.dispatch.com/zz/news/20200403/us-exported-millions-in-masks-and-ventilators-ahead-of-coronavirus-crisis?fbclid=IwAR1a1njW37T3d7ztkNtIwQZ9tjyx-43_OPTmPLquXtT97mnMC7u3Nk_6G6E

You think this justifies stealing them from allies? Because multi-national corporations made millions selling Masks and Ventilators to China when they were in need? 

Wow

mace1229

myoung321 said:

mace1229 said:

Like my analogy or not. I still stand by it. We are short on X. Why should we lend out X to someone else when we ourselves don’t have enough of X? Whether it’s masks, money or whoopee cushions, doesn’t matter. Seems like a perfect analogy to me, but that doesn’t matter.

Here’s what I see. All last week everyone was crying for Trump to enact the wartime production act. But when he prevents American exports of the exact same products everyone was furious about yesterday for not being made fast enough, he’s now horrible?
For every mask we send out we’ll have a doctor or nurse go without one here. I don’t see what’s wrong with keeping them here. It’s not like we’re keeping them just in case or to build up a stockpile. They are short here, people who need them are going to work every day without them.

Yet you don't question,,, WHY ARE WE SHORT? 

The virus doesn't care about invisible borders...  Canada matters big time to our ability to recover.. See the big picture.. The Canadian/US border is next to many big US cities and only 450 miles from NYC... it matters.. 

who said I haven’t questioned it?