The Democratic Presidential Debates

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  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,316
    mrussel1 said:
    No, it wouldn't have helped.  He won the state last Tuesday effectively, and it was baked into the narrative already.  
    Gotcha. Didn't look at California's interim but that makes sense.
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  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,503
    When it comes to Democratic Party politics California is no South Carolina. 
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,597
    JimmyV said:
    When it comes to Democratic Party politics California is no South Carolina. 
    If SC was on Super Tuesday or this past Tuesday, it would have mattered less.  The timing is everything.  By time CA was done on ST, Biden had basically romped including states where he should have been weak.  The narrative was written.  TX then affirmed it as well.  

    The other thing about CA that would have been analyzed is that 4 candidates that are now gone made up 34% of the vote.  If it were a one on one match between Biden and Sanders, there's no reason to think Biden could not have won on his own.  
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,135
    I say pick the right person who you think can really lead the country if need be. Their gender or race shouldn’t matter at all. 
    I agree with that statement partially. Would I suggest picking Sara Palin over Bernie? Absolutely not. She's a train wreck of epic proportions. I have faith that democrats wouldn't choose a "token" minority, they'd choose a very capable person to fill the position, while advocating for diversity.
    "every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"




  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,135
    mrussel1 said:
    I thought Joe did a good job of setting that stage in his speech Tuesday night.  He understands that we can't alienate those voters.  
    I missed your original response about "shaming people". I'm not sure why you'd consider what i said shaming anyone?
    "every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"




  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,597
    I missed your original response about "shaming people". I'm not sure why you'd consider what i said shaming anyone?
    Me?  I don't think I said that, did I?
  • CM189191CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    Sanders wins California 

    If I'm reading this right : https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/12/politics/bernie-sanders-wins-california/index.html

    Sanders winning 184 delegates to Biden's 144, with 81 delegates left to be allocated

    I'm not 100% on delegate counting.  But it's not all or nothing?  Biden still gets a pretty big bump of support here?
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,597
    CM189191 said:

    If I'm reading this right : https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/12/politics/bernie-sanders-wins-california/index.html

    Sanders winning 184 delegates to Biden's 144, with 81 delegates left to be allocated

    I'm not 100% on delegate counting.  But it's not all or nothing?  Biden still gets a pretty big bump of support here?
    If you get 15% in a district, you're viable.  And then delegates get awarded proportionately.  That's why it's so damn hard for Sanders to catch up.  He basically needs 53% in every state going forward.  And every time he doesn't, that number goes up.  
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,916
    I missed your original response about "shaming people". I'm not sure why you'd consider what i said shaming anyone?
    It was referring to another poster and I believe the twitter thread that was shared perhaps by you?
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  • CM189191CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    Biden should pull a power move and just not show up to the debate. He's got nothing to gain by showing up.

    Let Sanders have the entire time, scream at the TV cameras, continue to dig his own grave.

    Biden already has the nomination in hand. and he would beat Trump at his own game, if Trump was thinking about skipping the debates. Trump would rattle off some tweet about how Biden was too scared to debate, forcing Trump to show.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,597
    CM189191 said:
    Biden should pull a power move and just not show up to the debate. He's got nothing to gain by showing up.

    Let Sanders have the entire time, scream at the TV cameras, continue to dig his own grave.

    Biden already has the nomination in hand. and he would beat Trump at his own game, if Trump was thinking about skipping the debates. Trump would rattle off some tweet about how Biden was too scared to debate, forcing Trump to show.
    That's just not the way Biden operates, and you know this.  He would never do that.  Allegedly Sanders never wanted to go hard after Biden because he really like him personally.  I don't know that it's true or not, but that's the story that his people were dropping in the media. 
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,597
    static111 said:
    It was referring to another poster and I believe the twitter thread that was shared perhaps by you?
    I don't think I nkow how to share a twitter post.  
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,916
    CM189191 said:
    Biden should pull a power move and just not show up to the debate. He's got nothing to gain by showing up.

    Let Sanders have the entire time, scream at the TV cameras, continue to dig his own grave.

    Biden already has the nomination in hand. and he would beat Trump at his own game, if Trump was thinking about skipping the debates. Trump would rattle off some tweet about how Biden was too scared to debate, forcing Trump to show.
    Serious question. Do you think that he can beat Trump without the support of the Bernie Bloc?  I think a move like that might alienate a lot of potential supporters.  My opinion has always been that winning the Dem nom is one thing and beating Trump is another. As a Bernie supporter that will gladly support Biden in opposition to Trump, I don’t think a large part of the Bernie base would show up for Biden after a serious diss. Even if Joe has the support without these voters it would still be a risky move.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,944
    mrussel1 said:
    That's just not the way Biden operates, and you know this.  He would never do that.  Allegedly Sanders never wanted to go hard after Biden because he really like him personally.  I don't know that it's true or not, but that's the story that his people were dropping in the media. 
    I think a debate with Bernie would be helpful. Highlight the differences on how to get there and how far you can go. I still think the berniebrosises will sit out because "The Establishment." And they think of themselves and Bernie as being ideologically pure.
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  • static111static111 Posts: 4,916
    mrussel1 said:
    I don't think I nkow how to share a twitter post.  
    Twitter post shared by Hugh. You had some reasoned debate another poster Has decided that questioning Joe and the DNC is grounds for shaming and acting like a jerk. I will admit I participated in the back and forth so it’s partially on me
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • CM189191CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    static111 said:
    Serious question. Do you think that he can beat Trump without the support of the Bernie Bloc?  I think a move like that might alienate a lot of potential supporters.  My opinion has always been that winning the Dem nom is one thing and beating Trump is another. As a Bernie supporter that will gladly support Biden in opposition to Trump, I don’t think a large part of the Bernie base would show up for Biden after a serious diss. Even if Joe has the support without these voters it would still be a risky move.
    Yes.
    This election is referendum on Trump. Not on Biden, not on Bernie, not on either of their policies.

    The only decision that voters have to make, is whether they want to vote for Trump, or vote for the person that isn't Trump.

    Voting third party, or not voting at all, is the same as a vote for Trump. There are now two options in this race: Trump, or Biden.
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 10,311

  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 16,190
    It may have been said earlier, but I would try to stay in the race as long as possible if my opponents were in their upper 70's.   Morbid, but even if no clear path to the nomination the coronavirus is out there.  Not wishing ill will on anyone but you never know. 
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 43,450
    pjl44 said:

    curious when this was first said......
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,597
    Meh
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 10,311
    mickeyrat said:
    curious when this was first said......
    Yeah, I have no idea when it was said. Just sums up my feeling on the matter. People who shriek at you are persuasive in the opposite direction they intend.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,597
  • CM189191CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    pjl44 said:


    This actually makes sense to you?  

    Each sentence contradicts the one that preceeds it.
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,916
    At this point I am for whatever candidate can get TP back on the shelves.  It’s crazy out there I just went to get a snack at Randall’s and just out of morbid curiosity looked at the TP aisle....completely bare....
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 43,450
    mrussel1 said:
    really want to know her definition of suppression...
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,944
    mickeyrat said:
    really want to know her definition of suppression...
    I’d say waiting in line for 3 hours is a form of suppression, particularly when you compare population density of registered voters by precincts and subsequent distribution of polling place employees and voting machines. It’s well documented. Whether AOC’s claim in this particular instance is accurate, I don’t know. But it’s worth investigating and if found to be true, there should be remedies.
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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 43,450
    I’d say waiting in line for 3 hours is a form of suppression, particularly when you compare population density of registered voters by precincts and subsequent distribution of polling place employees and voting machines. It’s well documented. Whether AOC’s claim in this particular instance is accurate, I don’t know. But it’s worth investigating and if found to be true, there should be remedies.
    my counter would be, despite a higher registered voter number, the election boards prepare based on historical turnout i.e. number of poll workers and machines at a given location.

    further, there is no way to predict, along with actual turnout, just what time a set of voters will actually appear.

    so the states either put up the cash to have enough machines in place for all eligible voters, registered or not. And have an equal number of volunteers on hand to  meet that potential demand. or the voters put ul with the inconvenience consistantly to force states to to put up the cash to meet demand.

    this is driven by citizen apathy not sinister motives although that can also play a role.
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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,944
    mickeyrat said:
    my counter would be, despite a higher registered voter number, the election boards prepare based on historical turnout i.e. number of poll workers and machines at a given location.

    further, there is no way to predict, along with actual turnout, just what time a set of voters will actually appear.

    so the states either put up the cash to have enough machines in place for all eligible voters, registered or not. And have an equal number of volunteers on hand to  meet that potential demand. or the voters put ul with the inconvenience consistantly to force states to to put up the cash to meet demand.

    this is driven by citizen apathy not sinister motives although that can also play a role.
    I disagree. 
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,597
    I disagree. 
    The charge of voter suppression carries the accusation that it was intentional and deliberate.  Being poorly managed, underestimating the turnout, not having enough workers, these are examples of perhaps unpreparedness, but not a deliberate attempt to try and prevent one group of people from voting.  
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