The Democratic Presidential Debates

mcgruff10 · March 2020

JimmyV · March 2020

Democrats ran an old, white, straight woman in 2016 and lost. They are now going to run an old(er), straight, white man in 2020. Both are the clear choice of the most moderate elements of the party. Maybe the result will be different this time. I really hope it will. But we have been here before.

mcgruff10 · March 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Real life.

https://twitter.com/RepKenBuck/status/1235944686910660609?s=20

Talk about a dumb thing to say. But in somewhat of the same token, I haven't seen a single post on this board about Chuck Schumer leading an angry mob outside the Supreme Court and making threats. That's strange.

That is an excellent point. Side note, Chuck Schumer is a moron.

Gern Blansten · March 2020

mcgruff10 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Real life.

https://twitter.com/RepKenBuck/status/1235944686910660609?s=20

Talk about a dumb thing to say. But in somewhat of the same token, I haven't seen a single post on this board about Chuck Schumer leading an angry mob outside the Supreme Court and making threats. That's strange.

That is an excellent point. Side note, Chuck Schumer is a moron.

I think it is stupid to call out Schumer and not tRump for similar shit he has said....we are numb to his bullshit

Ledbetterman10 · March 2020

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

^Yep! Can't argue with the data.

Plus, we can't sit around and expect every cycle we're going to have an FDR, JFK, Obama, Clinton.. they are once in a generation at best. After that, we should hope for a candidate that is competent, empathetic, and represents our values. I'd love if we had an Obama every time, but it's not reality. The R's had Reagan, and now a generation later they have Trump...for better or worse.

Yeah but don't ya feel there's a "glass ceiling" so to speak that someone like an Andrew Yang (for example) simply can't possibly break through when there's a Biden in the race? I get what you're saying about those Obama-types not coming around too often. They could break through. I just wish you didn't have to be an Obama-type to break through the "established" candidates.

No offense to Yang, but his policies were a real problem. UBI is a non-starter for the vast majority of Americans, even me. He also needs charisma. I thought it was mildly interesting, but certainly not charismatic. If you're not charismatic, and your policies are meh, why wouldn't the average Democrat go with the person they've watched for decades, saw as VP, etc.? It's perfectly rational. Obama put it all together, good policies, charisma, youth, energy, once in a lifetime. Yang isn't in the same ballpark

I just chose Yang at random as one of the younger people in the race who didn't have a national profile. I'm not suggesting he's in the same ballpark as Obama. I just wish you didn't have to be in the same ballpark as an Obama to make it. As for the part I bolded, oh yeah, that's exactly what I'd expect from the average democrat. On name alone, it was Biden's race to lose from the start.

mcgruff10 · March 2020

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Real life.

https://twitter.com/RepKenBuck/status/1235944686910660609?s=20

Talk about a dumb thing to say. But in somewhat of the same token, I haven't seen a single post on this board about Chuck Schumer leading an angry mob outside the Supreme Court and making threats. That's strange.

That is an excellent point. Side note, Chuck Schumer is a moron.

I think it is stupid to call out Schumer and not tRump for similar shit he has said....we are numb to his bullshit

I never understood this thinking.

CM189191 · March 2020

JimmyV said:

CM189191 said:

JimmyV said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

JimmyV said:

The horse race doesn't matter. Biden is going to be the nominee. Bernie's candidacy is over. Dems getting buyer's remorse as these primaries march on might not be the worst case scenario but it would be a bad one. .

It's just such a sad system that of all those people that declared themselves to be candidates, the one that's going to emerge has failed in two presidential runs, and is showing major signs of decline. Even sadder is that despite that, he probably does have the best chance to beat Trump.

It seems like the two best ways to become a major party nominee during my lifetime is to be a master politician like Bill Clinton, Obama, and Trump, or to simply hang around for a very long time like Dole, Kerry, McCain, and Hillary. And unfortunately, Biden falls into the second category. Here's hoping he gets a better outcome that than those four did.

Yeah, I don't know how to fix it but it does feel increasingly like our primary system is one more in a series that is beginning to fail.

it's seems easy to blame the system

but voters only have a voice if they actually show up to vote

Voter turnout will never not be a problem. At least not in our lifetimes. But inspired people will show up more readily than uninspired. The system these last two cycles has done a crap job of producing inspiring candidates.

again, blaming the system and not the voter

show up, vote and you will get your candidate elected

don't show up, don't vote, you get stuck with the shit sandwich

Ledbetterman10 · March 2020

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Real life.

https://twitter.com/RepKenBuck/status/1235944686910660609?s=20

Talk about a dumb thing to say. But in somewhat of the same token, I haven't seen a single post on this board about Chuck Schumer leading an angry mob outside the Supreme Court and making threats. That's strange.

That is an excellent point. Side note, Chuck Schumer is a moron.

I think it is stupid to call out Schumer and not tRump for similar shit he has said....we are numb to his bullshit

What are you talking about? Trump gets called out for anything and everything on this board every day. I just noted that nothing has been said about Schumer for doing the same sort of stuff (which isn't surprising at all). But let's face it, leading an angry mob outside the Court and calling justices out by name is worse than the equivalent Trump tweets.

JimmyV · March 2020

CM189191 said:

JimmyV said:

CM189191 said:

JimmyV said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

JimmyV said:

The horse race doesn't matter. Biden is going to be the nominee. Bernie's candidacy is over. Dems getting buyer's remorse as these primaries march on might not be the worst case scenario but it would be a bad one. .

It's just such a sad system that of all those people that declared themselves to be candidates, the one that's going to emerge has failed in two presidential runs, and is showing major signs of decline. Even sadder is that despite that, he probably does have the best chance to beat Trump.

It seems like the two best ways to become a major party nominee during my lifetime is to be a master politician like Bill Clinton, Obama, and Trump, or to simply hang around for a very long time like Dole, Kerry, McCain, and Hillary. And unfortunately, Biden falls into the second category. Here's hoping he gets a better outcome that than those four did.

Yeah, I don't know how to fix it but it does feel increasingly like our primary system is one more in a series that is beginning to fail.

it's seems easy to blame the system

but voters only have a voice if they actually show up to vote

Voter turnout will never not be a problem. At least not in our lifetimes. But inspired people will show up more readily than uninspired. The system these last two cycles has done a crap job of producing inspiring candidates.

again, blaming the system and not the voter

show up, vote and you will get your candidate elected

don't show up, don't vote, you get stuck with the shit sandwich

Voters are part of the system. Some don't show up, some make bad choices.

mrussel1 · March 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

^Yep! Can't argue with the data.

Plus, we can't sit around and expect every cycle we're going to have an FDR, JFK, Obama, Clinton.. they are once in a generation at best. After that, we should hope for a candidate that is competent, empathetic, and represents our values. I'd love if we had an Obama every time, but it's not reality. The R's had Reagan, and now a generation later they have Trump...for better or worse.

Yeah but don't ya feel there's a "glass ceiling" so to speak that someone like an Andrew Yang (for example) simply can't possibly break through when there's a Biden in the race? I get what you're saying about those Obama-types not coming around too often. They could break through. I just wish you didn't have to be an Obama-type to break through the "established" candidates.

No offense to Yang, but his policies were a real problem. UBI is a non-starter for the vast majority of Americans, even me. He also needs charisma. I thought it was mildly interesting, but certainly not charismatic. If you're not charismatic, and your policies are meh, why wouldn't the average Democrat go with the person they've watched for decades, saw as VP, etc.? It's perfectly rational. Obama put it all together, good policies, charisma, youth, energy, once in a lifetime. Yang isn't in the same ballpark
I just chose Yang at random as one of the younger people in the race who didn't have a national profile. I'm not suggesting he's in the same ballpark as Obama. I just wish you didn't have to be in the same ballpark as an Obama to make it. As for the part I bolded, oh yeah, that's exactly what I'd expect from the average democrat. On name alone, it was Biden's race to lose from the start.

Sure why not go with the person we can trust, rather than a wild card? Obama was different and I voted for him in the primaries, and then Clinton in the 16 primaries. Obama's ceiling was just too high to ignore. He was the full package, and his presidency played that out. BTW, my first choice was actually Pete but I was fine when he dropped on Sunday. It made it easy to vote for Joe in the VA primary on Tuesday. I guess I just don't see any of this of evidence of a broken system. My #1 guy didn't win, but I'm not bitter about it. C'est la vie.

Ledbetterman10 · March 2020

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

^Yep! Can't argue with the data.

Plus, we can't sit around and expect every cycle we're going to have an FDR, JFK, Obama, Clinton.. they are once in a generation at best. After that, we should hope for a candidate that is competent, empathetic, and represents our values. I'd love if we had an Obama every time, but it's not reality. The R's had Reagan, and now a generation later they have Trump...for better or worse.

Yeah but don't ya feel there's a "glass ceiling" so to speak that someone like an Andrew Yang (for example) simply can't possibly break through when there's a Biden in the race? I get what you're saying about those Obama-types not coming around too often. They could break through. I just wish you didn't have to be an Obama-type to break through the "established" candidates.

No offense to Yang, but his policies were a real problem. UBI is a non-starter for the vast majority of Americans, even me. He also needs charisma. I thought it was mildly interesting, but certainly not charismatic. If you're not charismatic, and your policies are meh, why wouldn't the average Democrat go with the person they've watched for decades, saw as VP, etc.? It's perfectly rational. Obama put it all together, good policies, charisma, youth, energy, once in a lifetime. Yang isn't in the same ballpark
I just chose Yang at random as one of the younger people in the race who didn't have a national profile. I'm not suggesting he's in the same ballpark as Obama. I just wish you didn't have to be in the same ballpark as an Obama to make it. As for the part I bolded, oh yeah, that's exactly what I'd expect from the average democrat. On name alone, it was Biden's race to lose from the start.

Sure why not go with the person we can trust, rather than a wild card? Obama was different and I voted for him in the primaries, and then Clinton in the 16 primaries. Obama's ceiling was just too high to ignore. He was the full package, and his presidency played that out. BTW, my first choice was actually Pete but I was fine when he dropped on Sunday. It made it easy to vote for Joe in the VA primary on Tuesday. I guess I just don't see any of this of evidence of a broken system. My #1 guy didn't win, but I'm not bitter about it. C'est la vie.

That's fair enough. I mean, in this two-party system, if you're a member of one of the parties, all you can do in a primary is vote for whoever's on the ballot.

I actually didn't see Obama's ceiling as that high at the time. I was a democrat then, and I voted for Hillary in the primary. But I was wrong that one. My theme of the day to some degree.

mrussel1 · March 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

^Yep! Can't argue with the data.

Plus, we can't sit around and expect every cycle we're going to have an FDR, JFK, Obama, Clinton.. they are once in a generation at best. After that, we should hope for a candidate that is competent, empathetic, and represents our values. I'd love if we had an Obama every time, but it's not reality. The R's had Reagan, and now a generation later they have Trump...for better or worse.

Yeah but don't ya feel there's a "glass ceiling" so to speak that someone like an Andrew Yang (for example) simply can't possibly break through when there's a Biden in the race? I get what you're saying about those Obama-types not coming around too often. They could break through. I just wish you didn't have to be an Obama-type to break through the "established" candidates.

No offense to Yang, but his policies were a real problem. UBI is a non-starter for the vast majority of Americans, even me. He also needs charisma. I thought it was mildly interesting, but certainly not charismatic. If you're not charismatic, and your policies are meh, why wouldn't the average Democrat go with the person they've watched for decades, saw as VP, etc.? It's perfectly rational. Obama put it all together, good policies, charisma, youth, energy, once in a lifetime. Yang isn't in the same ballpark
I just chose Yang at random as one of the younger people in the race who didn't have a national profile. I'm not suggesting he's in the same ballpark as Obama. I just wish you didn't have to be in the same ballpark as an Obama to make it. As for the part I bolded, oh yeah, that's exactly what I'd expect from the average democrat. On name alone, it was Biden's race to lose from the start.

Sure why not go with the person we can trust, rather than a wild card? Obama was different and I voted for him in the primaries, and then Clinton in the 16 primaries. Obama's ceiling was just too high to ignore. He was the full package, and his presidency played that out. BTW, my first choice was actually Pete but I was fine when he dropped on Sunday. It made it easy to vote for Joe in the VA primary on Tuesday. I guess I just don't see any of this of evidence of a broken system. My #1 guy didn't win, but I'm not bitter about it. C'est la vie.

That's fair enough. I mean, in this two-party system, if you're a member of one of the parties, all you can do in a primary is vote for whoever's on the ballot.

I actually didn't see Obama's ceiling as that high at the time. I was a democrat then, and I voted for Hillary in the primary. But I was wrong that one. My theme of the day to some degree.

I thought he was electric at the 2004 convention when he gave the key note. I was all in at that moment and was super excited about 08. I didn't need any convincing. I did and still do like Hillary. I think she's smart as a whip and am super impressed with her life. Anyone who criticizes her for losing in 16 is an idiot. How many people ever work as hard as she did to get there? She doesn't carry the same magnetic personality as Barack though.

CM189191 · March 2020

JimmyV said:

CM189191 said:

JimmyV said:

CM189191 said:

JimmyV said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

JimmyV said:

The horse race doesn't matter. Biden is going to be the nominee. Bernie's candidacy is over. Dems getting buyer's remorse as these primaries march on might not be the worst case scenario but it would be a bad one. .

It's just such a sad system that of all those people that declared themselves to be candidates, the one that's going to emerge has failed in two presidential runs, and is showing major signs of decline. Even sadder is that despite that, he probably does have the best chance to beat Trump.

It seems like the two best ways to become a major party nominee during my lifetime is to be a master politician like Bill Clinton, Obama, and Trump, or to simply hang around for a very long time like Dole, Kerry, McCain, and Hillary. And unfortunately, Biden falls into the second category. Here's hoping he gets a better outcome that than those four did.

Yeah, I don't know how to fix it but it does feel increasingly like our primary system is one more in a series that is beginning to fail.

it's seems easy to blame the system

but voters only have a voice if they actually show up to vote

Voter turnout will never not be a problem. At least not in our lifetimes. But inspired people will show up more readily than uninspired. The system these last two cycles has done a crap job of producing inspiring candidates.

again, blaming the system and not the voter

show up, vote and you will get your candidate elected

don't show up, don't vote, you get stuck with the shit sandwich

Voters are part of the system. Some don't show up, some make bad choices.

A LOT don't show up

as this election and the last indicated, it's not for lack of choices.
There were over 29 major D's to choose from
There were 17 major R candidates in 2016

it's lack of voter participation

Lerxst1992 · March 2020

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Bernie finally got the attention of the 1%!

Well...the 2%.

Lerxst1992 · March 2020

JimmyV said:

Democrats ran an old, white, straight woman in 2016 and lost. They are now going to run an old(er), straight, white man in 2020. Both are the clear choice of the most moderate elements of the party. Maybe the result will be different this time. I really hope it will. But we have been here before.

As a man (unfortunately) and as having the Vice President title preceding his name every time he will be addressed, Biden will be able to have a minimum level of respect from the independents who casually follow politics and are likely the ones to decide the election if close. He will get some slack because he is about as well know as possible.

Hillary was viciously attacked and thought she could ignore it and that cost her. Biden’s team has already said they will vigorously defend and counter attack. Ignoring the attacks cost Hilary badly, as was her decision to not pay attention to warning signs...

the fact she didn’t appear in WI is widely known. But when she did appear in swing states, it was often in safe blue cities like Philly and Ft Lauderdale. She was literally wasting everybody's time. When highly respected campaign vets tried to engage her team on strategy, they were too smart to listen.

Biden, like any D, could certainly lose. But I am confident (?) his campaign won’t be a mismanaged horror show like Hillary’s was.

Lerxst1992 · March 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

JimmyV said:

The horse race doesn't matter. Biden is going to be the nominee. Bernie's candidacy is over. Dems getting buyer's remorse as these primaries march on might not be the worst case scenario but it would be a bad one. .

It's just such a sad system that of all those people that declared themselves to be candidates, the one that's going to emerge has failed in two presidential runs, and is showing major signs of decline. Even sadder is that despite that, he probably does have the best chance to beat Trump.

It seems like the two best ways to become a major party nominee during my lifetime is to be a master politician like Bill Clinton, Obama, and Trump, or to simply hang around for a very long time like Dole, Kerry, McCain, and Hillary. And unfortunately, Biden falls into the second category. Here's hoping he gets a better outcome that than those four did.

how many times did Reagan run?

HW Bush?

Nixon?

Lerxst1992 · March 2020

CM189191 said:

JimmyV said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

JimmyV said:

The horse race doesn't matter. Biden is going to be the nominee. Bernie's candidacy is over. Dems getting buyer's remorse as these primaries march on might not be the worst case scenario but it would be a bad one. .

It's just such a sad system that of all those people that declared themselves to be candidates, the one that's going to emerge has failed in two presidential runs, and is showing major signs of decline. Even sadder is that despite that, he probably does have the best chance to beat Trump.

It seems like the two best ways to become a major party nominee during my lifetime is to be a master politician like Bill Clinton, Obama, and Trump, or to simply hang around for a very long time like Dole, Kerry, McCain, and Hillary. And unfortunately, Biden falls into the second category. Here's hoping he gets a better outcome that than those four did.

Yeah, I don't know how to fix it but it does feel increasingly like our primary system is one more in a series that is beginning to fail.

it's seems easy to blame the system

but voters only have a voice if they actually show up to vote

If polling like that were razor accurate, the GOP would be losing net 8% of the vote every year on the old side, not counting the huge margins under 40 pro democrat.

politics has changed. I can’t see too many 40 yo who voted against trump changing their minds now. In the old days they’d get a little wealthier and cross over. I can’t see that as much now,

Ledbetterman10 · March 2020

Lerxst1992 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

JimmyV said:

The horse race doesn't matter. Biden is going to be the nominee. Bernie's candidacy is over. Dems getting buyer's remorse as these primaries march on might not be the worst case scenario but it would be a bad one. .

It's just such a sad system that of all those people that declared themselves to be candidates, the one that's going to emerge has failed in two presidential runs, and is showing major signs of decline. Even sadder is that despite that, he probably does have the best chance to beat Trump.

It seems like the two best ways to become a major party nominee during my lifetime is to be a master politician like Bill Clinton, Obama, and Trump, or to simply hang around for a very long time like Dole, Kerry, McCain, and Hillary. And unfortunately, Biden falls into the second category. Here's hoping he gets a better outcome that than those four did.

how many times did Reagan run?

HW Bush?

Nixon?

I think they all ran once and lost a primary before going on to win.

I also think they were coherent during the years when they won.

JimmyV · March 2020

President Redford, anyone?

JimmyV · March 2020

Get out, Bernie. This kind of strategy will not help you.
https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/democratic-candidates-interested-winning-over-warren-supporters-would-be-wise-listen-why

The Democratic Presidential Debates

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