Who didnt see this coming? This is what happens when government intervenes in the market. I guess we can just pay them all a living wage until we run out of everyone's money.
"As minimum wage levels approach or surpass $15 nationwide, restaurant customers expecting to be greeted by a smiling face will instead be welcomed by a glowing LED screen.
As of 2020, self-service ordering kiosks will be implemented at all U.S. McDonald’s locations. Other chains, including fast-casual brands like Panera and casual-dining brands like Chili's, have already embraced this trend. Some restaurant concepts have even automated the food-preparation process; earlier this year, NBC News profiled "Flippy," a robot hamburger flipper. "
My experiences at Panera, Chilies and McDs is the kiosks supplement, not replace workers. And in many cases they are absurdly unreliable.
My experience is businesses are often willing to invest in automation or new technology, even if it is obvious (to me as an employee) the new technology is far from ready for commercial use.
Minimum wage should have been linked to inflation for the last few decades. The federal $7.50 an hour is absurd. To assume minimum wage workers have a strong enough market strength to pressure wealthy industries to move "free" market pay is unrealistic.
Edit,
And of course, if I walk into a business and there is no human to ask a question, I have the freedom to never return to that business again.
I am often offended by a business that expects me to do their job, entering my order into a computer. So good luck with that fortune 500.
Hahahaha if you find kiosks unreliable how do you find the people working at those places? My order is always right on a screen...never right in the bag. Idiots.
Yup, I'll take a computer system which performs automated, repeatable tasks in exactly the same way each and every time vs a system reliant on human perfection (which doesn't exist). Humans make constant mistakes with repeating tasks, which is why automation is almost always preferable for those tasks. Now I understand people perhaps wanting some human interaction when they're shopping (I'm not one of them), but I don't understand the preference of having a pimply 16 year old kid trying to get my order right and often failing, vs personally punching some buttons on a kiosk and knowing that my order was entered properly. Now if they could automate the cooking and bagging of that order we'd be good to go.
If they set up an economy that properly supports people who can't find jobs, I will feel exactly the same as you. I would love it if everything that can be automated was automated. It is so much easier and more reliable and more efficient (man, especially if we're talking food preparation! Consistency with that is a hug problem) .... But we don't want to put the cart ahead of the horse.
I agree with you. My point is that automation - logic based with repeatable results, will always be superior to humans in doing repetitive tasks. As you mention, there are plenty of ethical and philisophical issues to work through, as well as real life impact on low-skill, entry-level workers that need to be considered. I was just reacting to the notion that automation should be eschewed as unreliable. If automation is unreliable, that is due to the unreliable human who created the logic for the machine, not the machine itself.
Self service kiosks at fast food restaurants break all the time, and repairs don't get made timely. Execs at my company "could think of no reason" why we shouldn't upgrade to office 365, except they didn't know Microsoft made the new software so advanced with so many new features none of us use, it crashes all the time because our network is unreliable in many regions
Execs above the glass ceiling make decisions every day to go all in on new tech, without practical experience or putting in place the proper controls to ensure it works at least as well as the old processes, or having a plan to fix one the inevitable problems occur
With all that said, automation is widely used and works a hell of a lot more often than not. Bad planning on the part of people doesn't make the technology any worse. I mean, your comment almost supports automation - you described people making stupid decisions that don't work for them.
FWIW, I work in an office that is high tech (online education), and we know what we're doing. We get technology that works for us, and we have IT experts who know whether or not new software or hardware is viable in our work place before it's purchased. And when new platforms are implemented across the office, a clear transition plan is devised, and everyone gets training.
And FWIW, even when self-serve technology breaks down, that is still way cheaper than paying employees and for their benefits, and for the managers. Again, while I do love technology in many way in the work place, I don't support actually human replacement by it until the economy is reworked to keep everyone supported. Right now, technology is best used to HELP workers do their jobs better, and it definitely does that... unless people who don't know wtf they're doing are in charge.
Most entities do not exist in that high tech environment. Most large corporate entities have outsourced it's tech thousands of miles away, and created language and distance barriers. I'm guessing you know that.
As a separate example, I'll mention the table kiosks at chillies. My family loves to have dinner there..
A couple of years ago, they invested in table kiosks that the kids can pay 2 dollars and play some games, and we can pay our bill on it. Except for the fact, after a few years, they stopped working properly, and its been many months without a fix.
I'd imagine that's because to get it fixed, it's similar to the bureaucratic mess that is my office environment. Most organizations are just not nimble when it comes to investing in a tech fix, because that requires hard resources with an unknown investment and timeline at time of diagnosis.
Back to chillies...i am sure restaurants may have cut staffing a tiny % due to this technology, but since these kiosks broke, there is a noticable addition to time required to order dessert (very important for the kids :-) ) and especially to pay the check.
I am certain this has extended the wait times during peak hours, and I'm sure some have walked out the door as a result. I have a tougher time imagining customers will choose an establishment that looks to automate jobs like this, but it's possible. To me it seems to be a net decrease in revenue, but certainly, management would not put up with such ineffectiveness if it were derived from humans
Yup, I'll take a computer system which performs automated, repeatable tasks in exactly the same way each and every time vs a system reliant on human perfection (which doesn't exist). Humans make constant mistakes with repeating tasks, which is why automation is almost always preferable for those tasks. Now I understand people perhaps wanting some human interaction when they're shopping (I'm not one of them), but I don't understand the preference of having a pimply 16 year old kid trying to get my order right and often failing, vs personally punching some buttons on a kiosk and knowing that my order was entered properly. Now if they could automate the cooking and bagging of that order we'd be good to go.
If they set up an economy that properly supports people who can't find jobs, I will feel exactly the same as you. I would love it if everything that can be automated was automated. It is so much easier and more reliable and more efficient (man, especially if we're talking food preparation! Consistency with that is a hug problem) .... But we don't want to put the cart ahead of the horse.
I agree with you. My point is that automation - logic based with repeatable results, will always be superior to humans in doing repetitive tasks. As you mention, there are plenty of ethical and philisophical issues to work through, as well as real life impact on low-skill, entry-level workers that need to be considered. I was just reacting to the notion that automation should be eschewed as unreliable. If automation is unreliable, that is due to the unreliable human who created the logic for the machine, not the machine itself.
Self service kiosks at fast food restaurants break all the time, and repairs don't get made timely. Execs at my company "could think of no reason" why we shouldn't upgrade to office 365, except they didn't know Microsoft made the new software so advanced with so many new features none of us use, it crashes all the time because our network is unreliable in many regions
Execs above the glass ceiling make decisions every day to go all in on new tech, without practical experience or putting in place the proper controls to ensure it works at least as well as the old processes, or having a plan to fix one the inevitable problems occur
With all that said, automation is widely used and works a hell of a lot more often than not. Bad planning on the part of people doesn't make the technology any worse. I mean, your comment almost supports automation - you described people making stupid decisions that don't work for them.
FWIW, I work in an office that is high tech (online education), and we know what we're doing. We get technology that works for us, and we have IT experts who know whether or not new software or hardware is viable in our work place before it's purchased. And when new platforms are implemented across the office, a clear transition plan is devised, and everyone gets training.
And FWIW, even when self-serve technology breaks down, that is still way cheaper than paying employees and for their benefits, and for the managers. Again, while I do love technology in many way in the work place, I don't support actually human replacement by it until the economy is reworked to keep everyone supported. Right now, technology is best used to HELP workers do their jobs better, and it definitely does that... unless people who don't know wtf they're doing are in charge.
Most entities do not exist in that high tech environment. Most large corporate entities have outsourced it's tech thousands of miles away, and created language and distance barriers. I'm guessing you know that.
As a separate example, I'll mention the table kiosks at chillies. My family loves to have dinner there..
A couple of years ago, they invested in table kiosks that the kids can pay 2 dollars and play some games, and we can pay our bill on it. Except for the fact, after a few years, they stopped working properly, and its been many months without a fix.
I'd imagine that's because to get it fixed, it's similar to the bureaucratic mess that is my office environment. Most organizations are just not nimble when it comes to investing in a tech fix, because that requires hard resources with an unknown investment and timeline at time of diagnosis.
Back to chillies...i am sure restaurants may have cut staffing a tiny % due to this technology, but since these kiosks broke, there is a noticable addition to time required to order dessert (very important for the kids :-) ) and especially to pay the check.
I am certain this has extended the wait times during peak hours, and I'm sure some have walked out the door as a result. I have a tougher time imagining customers will choose an establishment that looks to automate jobs like this, but it's possible. To me it seems to be a net decrease in revenue, but certainly, management would not put up with such ineffectiveness if it were derived from humans
Yes, sure I know that... Of course, that doesn't mean any work environment can't make decisions about technology that work for them. It takes some research, or consultation, but it's totally possible no matter what kind of business it may be.
When it comes to fast food kiosks - I've only noticed them being installed in places that have long line ups, as a way to make service faster for the customers. So really what's happening is that cashiers aren't being fired for them... but no new cashiers are being hired to answer the large demand. I figure that's just about as bad if the unemployment rate means anything. The only time that isn't a negative in terms of human jobs is when the company actually can't fill needed positions due to lack of applicants... And that is a real problem in some places, Vancouver included. Business owners can't fill positions here right now, especially not in the food service industry. Some restaurants are being forced to close their doors some days of the week due to a lack of staff. There is a worker shortage in TONS of industries across America too (which is why the anti-immigrant arguments about them taking American jobs are ridiculous).
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,686
edited April 2019
I have a simple solution for all of you with concerns about not getting your fast food order done right by a human or not at all due to mechanical breakdown of an automated system: Instead of eating road kill garbage, eat real food, healthy food.
Edit: By the way, I'm not saying that ^^^ as a put down. I mean it sincerely. You're good folks. Please, don't put that shit in your bodies. You're too good for that!
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I have a simple solution for all of you with concerns about not getting your fast food order done right by a human or not at all due to mechanical breakdown of an automated system: Instead of eating road kill garbage, eat real food, healthy food.
Edit: By the way, I'm not saying that ^^^ as a put down. I mean it sincerely. You're good folks. Please, don't put that shit in your bodies. You're too good for that!
They re-designed my local Wal Mart...they now have about 50 self-checkouts, never more than a handful people are using them...
Shoppers Drug Mart (a Canadian rip off drug store chain) has told it's employees to insist on customers using self check-out unless paying by cash...lmfao. I'd go elsewhere if a fucking employee at a store ever told me that.
I have a simple solution for all of you with concerns about not getting your fast food order done right by a human or not at all due to mechanical breakdown of an automated system: Instead of eating road kill garbage, eat real food, healthy food.
Edit: By the way, I'm not saying that ^^^ as a put down. I mean it sincerely. You're good folks. Please, don't put that shit in your bodies. You're too good for that!
They re-designed my local Wal Mart...they now have about 50 self-checkouts, never more than a handful people are using them...
Shoppers Drug Mart (a Canadian rip off drug store chain) has told it's employees to insist on customers using self check-out unless paying by cash...lmfao. I'd go elsewhere if a fucking employee at a store ever told me that.
The Wal-Mart here also has a bunch of self-checkout lanes as well. The front of the store is constantly backed up and good luck trying to walk through it! I hardly ever go there anyway but if I do I find it easier to navigate through the clothing sections than the MAIN FUCKING AISLE of the store! Like, people have full shopping carts of groceries & other various goods and you’re making them do ALL the checkout & bagging themselves. And the conveyers are only like 3 feet long. What. The actual. Fuck?!?!? It’s done nothing but create fucking gridlock in the entire front of store!!!
I have a simple solution for all of you with concerns about not getting your fast food order done right by a human or not at all due to mechanical breakdown of an automated system: Instead of eating road kill garbage, eat real food, healthy food.
Edit: By the way, I'm not saying that ^^^ as a put down. I mean it sincerely. You're good folks. Please, don't put that shit in your bodies. You're too good for that!
They re-designed my local Wal Mart...they now have about 50 self-checkouts, never more than a handful people are using them...
Shoppers Drug Mart (a Canadian rip off drug store chain) has told it's employees to insist on customers using self check-out unless paying by cash...lmfao. I'd go elsewhere if a fucking employee at a store ever told me that.
No kidding! I'd tell them to go pound sand.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Who didnt see this coming? This is what happens when government intervenes in the market. I guess we can just pay them all a living wage until we run out of everyone's money.
"As minimum wage levels approach or surpass $15 nationwide, restaurant customers expecting to be greeted by a smiling face will instead be welcomed by a glowing LED screen.
As of 2020, self-service ordering kiosks will be implemented at all U.S. McDonald’s locations. Other chains, including fast-casual brands like Panera and casual-dining brands like Chili's, have already embraced this trend. Some restaurant concepts have even automated the food-preparation process; earlier this year, NBC News profiled "Flippy," a robot hamburger flipper. "
My experiences at Panera, Chilies and McDs is the kiosks supplement, not replace workers. And in many cases they are absurdly unreliable.
My experience is businesses are often willing to invest in automation or new technology, even if it is obvious (to me as an employee) the new technology is far from ready for commercial use.
Minimum wage should have been linked to inflation for the last few decades. The federal $7.50 an hour is absurd. To assume minimum wage workers have a strong enough market strength to pressure wealthy industries to move "free" market pay is unrealistic.
Edit,
And of course, if I walk into a business and there is no human to ask a question, I have the freedom to never return to that business again.
I am often offended by a business that expects me to do their job, entering my order into a computer. So good luck with that fortune 500.
Hahahaha if you find kiosks unreliable how do you find the people working at those places? My order is always right on a screen...never right in the bag. Idiots.
Yup, I'll take a computer system which performs automated, repeatable tasks in exactly the same way each and every time vs a system reliant on human perfection (which doesn't exist). Humans make constant mistakes with repeating tasks, which is why automation is almost always preferable for those tasks. Now I understand people perhaps wanting some human interaction when they're shopping (I'm not one of them), but I don't understand the preference of having a pimply 16 year old kid trying to get my order right and often failing, vs personally punching some buttons on a kiosk and knowing that my order was entered properly. Now if they could automate the cooking and bagging of that order we'd be good to go.
If they set up an economy that properly supports people who can't find jobs, I will feel exactly the same as you. I would love it if everything that can be automated was automated. It is so much easier and more reliable and more efficient (man, especially if we're talking food preparation! Consistency with that is a hug problem) .... But we don't want to put the cart ahead of the horse.
I agree with you. My point is that automation - logic based with repeatable results, will always be superior to humans in doing repetitive tasks. As you mention, there are plenty of ethical and philisophical issues to work through, as well as real life impact on low-skill, entry-level workers that need to be considered. I was just reacting to the notion that automation should be eschewed as unreliable. If automation is unreliable, that is due to the unreliable human who created the logic for the machine, not the machine itself.
Self service kiosks at fast food restaurants break all the time, and repairs don't get made timely. Execs at my company "could think of no reason" why we shouldn't upgrade to office 365, except they didn't know Microsoft made the new software so advanced with so many new features none of us use, it crashes all the time because our network is unreliable in many regions
Execs above the glass ceiling make decisions every day to go all in on new tech, without practical experience or putting in place the proper controls to ensure it works at least as well as the old processes, or having a plan to fix one the inevitable problems occur
With all that said, automation is widely used and works a hell of a lot more often than not. Bad planning on the part of people doesn't make the technology any worse. I mean, your comment almost supports automation - you described people making stupid decisions that don't work for them.
FWIW, I work in an office that is high tech (online education), and we know what we're doing. We get technology that works for us, and we have IT experts who know whether or not new software or hardware is viable in our work place before it's purchased. And when new platforms are implemented across the office, a clear transition plan is devised, and everyone gets training.
And FWIW, even when self-serve technology breaks down, that is still way cheaper than paying employees and for their benefits, and for the managers. Again, while I do love technology in many way in the work place, I don't support actually human replacement by it until the economy is reworked to keep everyone supported. Right now, technology is best used to HELP workers do their jobs better, and it definitely does that... unless people who don't know wtf they're doing are in charge.
Most entities do not exist in that high tech environment. Most large corporate entities have outsourced it's tech thousands of miles away, and created language and distance barriers. I'm guessing you know that.
As a separate example, I'll mention the table kiosks at chillies. My family loves to have dinner there..
A couple of years ago, they invested in table kiosks that the kids can pay 2 dollars and play some games, and we can pay our bill on it. Except for the fact, after a few years, they stopped working properly, and its been many months without a fix.
I'd imagine that's because to get it fixed, it's similar to the bureaucratic mess that is my office environment. Most organizations are just not nimble when it comes to investing in a tech fix, because that requires hard resources with an unknown investment and timeline at time of diagnosis.
Back to chillies...i am sure restaurants may have cut staffing a tiny % due to this technology, but since these kiosks broke, there is a noticable addition to time required to order dessert (very important for the kids :-) ) and especially to pay the check.
I am certain this has extended the wait times during peak hours, and I'm sure some have walked out the door as a result. I have a tougher time imagining customers will choose an establishment that looks to automate jobs like this, but it's possible. To me it seems to be a net decrease in revenue, but certainly, management would not put up with such ineffectiveness if it were derived from humans
"As minimum wage levels approach or surpass $15 nationwide, restaurant customers expecting to be greeted by a smiling face will instead be welcomed by a glowing LED screen.
As of 2020, self-service ordering kiosks will be implemented at all U.S. McDonald’s locations. Other chains, including fast-casual brands like Panera and casual-dining brands like Chili's, have already embraced this trend. Some restaurant concepts have even automated the food-preparation process; earlier this year, NBC News profiled "Flippy," a robot hamburger flipper. "
My experiences at Panera, Chilies and McDs is the kiosks supplement, not replace workers. And in many cases they are absurdly unreliable.
My experience is businesses are often willing to invest in automation or new technology, even if it is obvious (to me as an employee) the new technology is far from ready for commercial use.
Minimum wage should have been linked to inflation for the last few decades. The federal $7.50 an hour is absurd. To assume minimum wage workers have a strong enough market strength to pressure wealthy industries to move "free" market pay is unrealistic.
Edit,
And of course, if I walk into a business and there is no human to ask a question, I have the freedom to never return to that business again.
I am often offended by a business that expects me to do their job, entering my order into a computer. So good luck with that fortune 500.
Hahahaha if you find kiosks unreliable how do you find the people working at those places? My order is always right on a screen...never right in the bag. Idiots.
Yup, I'll take a computer system which performs automated, repeatable tasks in exactly the same way each and every time vs a system reliant on human perfection (which doesn't exist). Humans make constant mistakes with repeating tasks, which is why automation is almost always preferable for those tasks. Now I understand people perhaps wanting some human interaction when they're shopping (I'm not one of them), but I don't understand the preference of having a pimply 16 year old kid trying to get my order right and often failing, vs personally punching some buttons on a kiosk and knowing that my order was entered properly. Now if they could automate the cooking and bagging of that order we'd be good to go.
If they set up an economy that properly supports people who can't find jobs, I will feel exactly the same as you. I would love it if everything that can be automated was automated. It is so much easier and more reliable and more efficient (man, especially if we're talking food preparation! Consistency with that is a hug problem) .... But we don't want to put the cart ahead of the horse.
I agree with you. My point is that automation - logic based with repeatable results, will always be superior to humans in doing repetitive tasks. As you mention, there are plenty of ethical and philisophical issues to work through, as well as real life impact on low-skill, entry-level workers that need to be considered. I was just reacting to the notion that automation should be eschewed as unreliable. If automation is unreliable, that is due to the unreliable human who created the logic for the machine, not the machine itself.
Self service kiosks at fast food restaurants break all the time, and repairs don't get made timely. Execs at my company "could think of no reason" why we shouldn't upgrade to office 365, except they didn't know Microsoft made the new software so advanced with so many new features none of us use, it crashes all the time because our network is unreliable in many r the proper controls to ensure it works at least as well as the old processes, or having a plan to fix one the inevitable problems occur
With all that said, automation is widely used and works a hell of a lot more often than not. Bad planning on the part of people doesn't make the technology any worse. I mean, your comment almost supports automation - you described people making stupid decisions that don't work for them.
FWIW, I work in an office that is high tech (online education), and we know what we're doing. We get technology that works for us, and we have IT experts who know whether or not new software or hardware is viable in our work place before it's purchased. And when new platforms are implemented across the office, a clear transition plan is devised, and everyone gets training.
And FWIW, even when self-serve technology breaks down, that is still way cheaper than paying employees and for their benefits, and for the managers. Again, while I do love technology in many way in the work place, I don't support actually human replacement by it until the economy is reworked to keep everyone supported. Right now, technology is best used to HELP workers do their jobs better, and it definitely does that... unless people who don't know wtf they're doing are in charge.
Most entities do not exist in that high tech environment. Most large corporate entities have outsourced it's tech thousands of miles away, and created language and distance barriers. I'm guessing you know that.
As a separate example, I'll mention the table kiosks at chillies. My family loves to have dinner there..
A couple of years ago, they invested in table kiosks that the kids can pay 2 dollars and play some games, and we can pay our bill on it. Except for the fact, after a few years, they stopped working properly, and its been many months without a fix.
I'd imagine that's because to get it fixed, it's similar to the bureaucratic mess that is my office environment. Most organizations are just not nimble when it comes to investing in a tech fix, because that requires hard resources with an unknown investment and timeline at time of diagnosis.
Back to chillies...i am sure restaurants may have cut staffing a tiny % due to this technology, but since these kiosks broke, there is a noticable addition to time required to order dessert (very important for the kids :-) ) and especially to pay the check.
I am certain this has extended the wait times during peak hours, and I'm sure some have walked out the door as a result. I have a tougher time imagining customers will choose an establishment that looks to automate jobs like this, but it's possible. To me it seems to be a net decrease in revenue, but certainly, management would not put up with such ineffectiveness if it were derived from humans
CEO Dan Price of Gravity Payment cut his own salary down to the level of his lowest paid staff so that he could raise the salaries of every employee to $70,000 minimum. Five years on, it seems to have worked out well for him and the company. Sounds to me like an amazing action to take, and yet some community people complained, Rush Limbaugh called him a communist (when Rush complains about you, you know you're on the right track) and two employees quit in protest because they felt the wage hikes for the less senior staff were "unfair". What is it about some people that they are so rabidly in favour of the worst aspects of capitalism that they can't even appreciate a CEO doing what he could to tackle income inequality?
I basically received on-the-job-training at CVS to work the cash register last week. The manager was sitting on a barstool teaching every customer to operate it because why pay someone to do that.
I basically received on-the-job-training at CVS to work the cash register last week. The manager was sitting on a barstool teaching every customer to operate it because why pay someone to do that.
Did you get to make your own change?
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,703
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
$15 is too low for someone working in America to afford to have basic needs met. I feel like people who are against this must feel like they made less and now you should too, or are worried what paying people something above a subsistence wage. America home of the free dumb, where people should be great full they aren’t living in the gutters and infested by bugs.
If they started incrementally increasing it years ago, maybe it’d be at $15 by now. It’s $7.25 federally now. I’m not sure when $15 was first proposed. But it seems like it was some time ago. If say $10 was proposed then, maybe it would’ve happened and now they’d be moving up to $12 or something. I just think from the business-owners side of things, jumping from $7.25 to $15 won’t work logistically.
If they started incrementally increasing it years ago, maybe it’d be at $15 by now. It’s $7.25 federally now. I’m not sure when $15 was first proposed. But it seems like it was some time ago. If say $10 was proposed then, maybe it would’ve happened and now they’d be moving up to $12 or something. I just think from the business-owners side of things, jumping from $7.25 to $15 won’t work logistically.
If they can’t afford 15 but could afford 12 given two years or something that sounds disingenuous. And honestly if they can’t provide the wage, maybe they aren’t providing a needed service...it’s shaky ground when you get out there, but the answer can’t be well let’s go with what would have been fair ten years ago. Something is better than nothing politics keeps people down.
I have a simple solution for all of you with concerns about not getting your fast food order done right by a human or not at all due to mechanical breakdown of an automated system: Instead of eating road kill garbage, eat real food, healthy food.
Edit: By the way, I'm not saying that ^^^ as a put down. I mean it sincerely. You're good folks. Please, don't put that shit in your bodies. You're too good for that!
If they started incrementally increasing it years ago, maybe it’d be at $15 by now. It’s $7.25 federally now. I’m not sure when $15 was first proposed. But it seems like it was some time ago. If say $10 was proposed then, maybe it would’ve happened and now they’d be moving up to $12 or something. I just think from the business-owners side of things, jumping from $7.25 to $15 won’t work logistically.
If they can’t afford 15 but could afford 12 given two years or something that sounds disingenuous. And honestly if they can’t provide the wage, maybe they aren’t providing a needed service...it’s shaky ground when you get out there, but the answer can’t be well let’s go with what would have been fair ten years ago. Something is better than nothing politics keeps people down.
No it's the workers that will be deemed not needed, not the service. Like gas station attendants for example. We all need the service of having gas provided, but we don't need someone pumping it for us. Or some custodial workers. There's a guy that comes to my office every day and collects our garbage, and sometimes vacuums. He'd probably be gone if they raised the minimum wage to $15, and they'd tell us to go out and throw our own garbage in the dumpster.
It's not that I don't see your point from an idealistic standpoint. The minimum wage is way too low and it's unlivable and frankly, it's pretty cruel. The current bill states "The Raise the Wage Act would increase the pay floor to $9.50 an hour this year, then to $11 next year. The minimum wage would rise to $12.50 per hour in 2023, $14 in 2024 and then $15 in 2025."
I'm all for it. But my two points were it should've been done a long time ago, and many jobs will be deemed unneeded by employers when it happens.
If they started incrementally increasing it years ago, maybe it’d be at $15 by now. It’s $7.25 federally now. I’m not sure when $15 was first proposed. But it seems like it was some time ago. If say $10 was proposed then, maybe it would’ve happened and now they’d be moving up to $12 or something. I just think from the business-owners side of things, jumping from $7.25 to $15 won’t work logistically.
If they can’t afford 15 but could afford 12 given two years or something that sounds disingenuous. And honestly if they can’t provide the wage, maybe they aren’t providing a needed service...it’s shaky ground when you get out there, but the answer can’t be well let’s go with what would have been fair ten years ago. Something is better than nothing politics keeps people down.
No it's the workers that will be deemed not needed, not the service. Like gas station attendants for example. We all need the service of having gas provided, but we don't need someone pumping it for us. Or some custodial workers. There's a guy that comes to my office every day and collects our garbage, and sometimes vacuums. He'd probably be gone if they raised the minimum wage to $15, and they'd tell us to go out and throw our own garbage in the dumpster.
It's not that I don't see your point from an idealistic standpoint. The minimum wage is way too low and it's unlivable and frankly, it's pretty cruel. The current bill states "The Raise the Wage Act would increase the pay floor to $9.50 an hour this year, then to $11 next year. The minimum wage would rise to $12.50 per hour in 2023, $14 in 2024 and then $15 in 2025."
I'm all for it. But my two points were it should've been done a long time ago, and many jobs will be deemed unneeded by employers when it happens.
I don’t see how $15 by 2025 isn’t doable. Sad thing is it’s really still very low, and by 2025 once the capitalists figure out a way to drain all the extra wage from the worker, we will be right back where we started.
If they started incrementally increasing it years ago, maybe it’d be at $15 by now. It’s $7.25 federally now. I’m not sure when $15 was first proposed. But it seems like it was some time ago. If say $10 was proposed then, maybe it would’ve happened and now they’d be moving up to $12 or something. I just think from the business-owners side of things, jumping from $7.25 to $15 won’t work logistically.
If they can’t afford 15 but could afford 12 given two years or something that sounds disingenuous. And honestly if they can’t provide the wage, maybe they aren’t providing a needed service...it’s shaky ground when you get out there, but the answer can’t be well let’s go with what would have been fair ten years ago. Something is better than nothing politics keeps people down.
No it's the workers that will be deemed not needed, not the service. Like gas station attendants for example. We all need the service of having gas provided, but we don't need someone pumping it for us. Or some custodial workers. There's a guy that comes to my office every day and collects our garbage, and sometimes vacuums. He'd probably be gone if they raised the minimum wage to $15, and they'd tell us to go out and throw our own garbage in the dumpster.
It's not that I don't see your point from an idealistic standpoint. The minimum wage is way too low and it's unlivable and frankly, it's pretty cruel. The current bill states "The Raise the Wage Act would increase the pay floor to $9.50 an hour this year, then to $11 next year. The minimum wage would rise to $12.50 per hour in 2023, $14 in 2024 and then $15 in 2025."
I'm all for it. But my two points were it should've been done a long time ago, and many jobs will be deemed unneeded by employers when it happens.
I don’t see how $15 by 2025 isn’t doable. Sad thing is it’s really still very low, and by 2025 once the capitalists figure out a way to drain all the extra wage from the worker, we will be right back where we started.
Nearly every day, for myriad reasons, this being one of them, I tell at least one of my children that there are tons of better nations in which to thrive than the US.
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
Is it true that the parliamentarian can be overruled by the VP? Parliamentarian....why are there so many unelected positions that block progress in this country? It’s bad enough dealing with the elected ones.
Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
0
Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,703
Is it true that the parliamentarian can be overruled by the VP? Parliamentarian....why are there so many unelected positions that block progress in this country? It’s bad enough dealing with the elected ones.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Is it true that the parliamentarian can be overruled by the VP? Parliamentarian....why are there so many unelected positions that block progress in this country? It’s bad enough dealing with the elected ones.
Is it true that the parliamentarian can be overruled by the VP? Parliamentarian....why are there so many unelected positions that block progress in this country? It’s bad enough dealing with the elected ones.
no.
I just read several articles that claim Harris can overrule and there has been a precedent set previously for doing so.
Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
0
Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,703
Is it true that the parliamentarian can be overruled by the VP? Parliamentarian....why are there so many unelected positions that block progress in this country? It’s bad enough dealing with the elected ones.
Is it true that the parliamentarian can be overruled by the VP? Parliamentarian....why are there so many unelected positions that block progress in this country? It’s bad enough dealing with the elected ones.
no.
I just read several articles that claim Harris can overrule and there has been a precedent set previously for doing so.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Is it true that the parliamentarian can be overruled by the VP? Parliamentarian....why are there so many unelected positions that block progress in this country? It’s bad enough dealing with the elected ones.
Is it true that the parliamentarian can be overruled by the VP? Parliamentarian....why are there so many unelected positions that block progress in this country? It’s bad enough dealing with the elected ones.
no.
I just read several articles that claim Harris can overrule and there has been a precedent set previously for doing so.
the vp can override the rules?
Happened once in 1975 by a Rockefeller, apparently the parliamentarian is an advisory role and the presiding officer of the senate, in this case the VP, can choose to overrule the advice.
Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
0
Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,703
Is it true that the parliamentarian can be overruled by the VP? Parliamentarian....why are there so many unelected positions that block progress in this country? It’s bad enough dealing with the elected ones.
Is it true that the parliamentarian can be overruled by the VP? Parliamentarian....why are there so many unelected positions that block progress in this country? It’s bad enough dealing with the elected ones.
no.
I just read several articles that claim Harris can overrule and there has been a precedent set previously for doing so.
the vp can override the rules?
Happened once in 1975 by a Rockefeller, apparently the parliamentarian is an advisory role and the presiding officer of the senate, in this case the VP, can choose to overrule the advice.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Is it true that the parliamentarian can be overruled by the VP? Parliamentarian....why are there so many unelected positions that block progress in this country? It’s bad enough dealing with the elected ones.
Is it true that the parliamentarian can be overruled by the VP? Parliamentarian....why are there so many unelected positions that block progress in this country? It’s bad enough dealing with the elected ones.
no.
I just read several articles that claim Harris can overrule and there has been a precedent set previously for doing so.
the vp can override the rules?
Happened once in 1975 by a Rockefeller, apparently the parliamentarian is an advisory role and the presiding officer of the senate, in this case the VP, can choose to overrule the advice.
kiss goodbye ALL the rest of Bidens agenda then.
How so?
Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
0
Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,703
Is it true that the parliamentarian can be overruled by the VP? Parliamentarian....why are there so many unelected positions that block progress in this country? It’s bad enough dealing with the elected ones.
Is it true that the parliamentarian can be overruled by the VP? Parliamentarian....why are there so many unelected positions that block progress in this country? It’s bad enough dealing with the elected ones.
no.
I just read several articles that claim Harris can overrule and there has been a precedent set previously for doing so.
the vp can override the rules?
Happened once in 1975 by a Rockefeller, apparently the parliamentarian is an advisory role and the presiding officer of the senate, in this case the VP, can choose to overrule the advice.
kiss goodbye ALL the rest of Bidens agenda then.
How so?
to pass thia 1.9 trillion package they seem tp neef to go reconciliation route. $15hr isnt a budget item.
you suggezt hartis ovetrule that specific provisiob of reconciliation to include $15hr.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Is it true that the parliamentarian can be overruled by the VP? Parliamentarian....why are there so many unelected positions that block progress in this country? It’s bad enough dealing with the elected ones.
Is it true that the parliamentarian can be overruled by the VP? Parliamentarian....why are there so many unelected positions that block progress in this country? It’s bad enough dealing with the elected ones.
no.
I just read several articles that claim Harris can overrule and there has been a precedent set previously for doing so.
the vp can override the rules?
Happened once in 1975 by a Rockefeller, apparently the parliamentarian is an advisory role and the presiding officer of the senate, in this case the VP, can choose to overrule the advice.
kiss goodbye ALL the rest of Bidens agenda then.
How so?
to pass thia 1.9 trillion package they seem tp neef to go reconciliation route. $15hr isnt a budget item.
you suggezt hartis ovetrule that specific provisiob of reconciliation to include $15hr.
.McConnell killa everything going forward.
Well he is going to anyway, kill everything I mean
Comments
Most entities do not exist in that high tech environment. Most large corporate entities have outsourced it's tech thousands of miles away, and created language and distance barriers. I'm guessing you know that.
As a separate example, I'll mention the table kiosks at chillies. My family loves to have dinner there..
A couple of years ago, they invested in table kiosks that the kids can pay 2 dollars and play some games, and we can pay our bill on it. Except for the fact, after a few years, they stopped working properly, and its been many months without a fix.
I'd imagine that's because to get it fixed, it's similar to the bureaucratic mess that is my office environment. Most organizations are just not nimble when it comes to investing in a tech fix, because that requires hard resources with an unknown investment and timeline at time of diagnosis.
Back to chillies...i am sure restaurants may have cut staffing a tiny % due to this technology, but since these kiosks broke, there is a noticable addition to time required to order dessert (very important for the kids :-) ) and especially to pay the check.
I am certain this has extended the wait times during peak hours, and I'm sure some have walked out the door as a result. I have a tougher time imagining customers will choose an establishment that looks to automate jobs like this, but it's possible. To me it seems to be a net decrease in revenue, but certainly, management would not put up with such ineffectiveness if it were derived from humans
Shoppers Drug Mart (a Canadian rip off drug store chain) has told it's employees to insist on customers using self check-out unless paying by cash...lmfao. I'd go elsewhere if a fucking employee at a store ever told me that.
Like, people have full shopping carts of groceries & other various goods and you’re making them do ALL the checkout & bagging themselves. And the conveyers are only like 3 feet long. What. The actual. Fuck?!?!? It’s done nothing but create fucking gridlock in the entire front of store!!!
.my2hands said: If that's what you're into.
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/seattle-ceo-who-pays-workers-at-least-70k-us-says-it-s-paying-off-in-spades-1.5482394
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
I can't stop.
It's not that I don't see your point from an idealistic standpoint. The minimum wage is way too low and it's unlivable and frankly, it's pretty cruel. The current bill states "The Raise the Wage Act would increase the pay floor to $9.50 an hour this year, then to $11 next year. The minimum wage would rise to $12.50 per hour in 2023, $14 in 2024 and then $15 in 2025."
I'm all for it. But my two points were it should've been done a long time ago, and many jobs will be deemed unneeded by employers when it happens.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
no.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
the vp can override the rules?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
kiss goodbye ALL the rest of Bidens agenda then.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
There are no kings inside the gates of eden