All things Transgender related

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  • Posts: 1,814
    i skipped over a bit when you started lighting other posters up for no reason.
    Well, you apparently also skipped over the part where I answered your questions. 
  • Posts: 30,955
    edited January 2020
    ecdanc said:
    Not entirely: if they coexist as you say they do, how did you become certain of the exact relationship between the two?
    You can't possibly be certain.  I'm saying they have co-existed since the dawn of time.  Man has used scientific method for eons.  And what they could not explain through their version of the scientific method, they chalked up to gods, God, demons, bad humors, and possessed barber/doctor.  As man has advanced, the ratio of science to these myths has adjusted.  We still hold myths/religion in high regard today, as a social construct.  This has all moved together.  
  • Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    You can't possibly be certain.  I'm saying they have co-existed since the dawn of time.  Man has used science, and the method for... I don't know how many eons.  And what they could not explain through their version of the scientific method, they chalked up to gods, God, demons, bad humors, and possessed barber/doctor.  As man has advanced, the ratio of science to these myths has adjusted.  We still hold myths/religion in high regard today, as a social construct.  This has all moved together.  
    Yet people here express certainty that science isn't a social construct....

    Perhaps we're beginning to see why Simon Young, (potentially fake) PhD compared science to religion. ;) 

  • Posts: 16,940
    I kinda feel that this whole thread has become 1 person telling everyone else they are wrong without ever stating anything of their own.  That always bugs me.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Posts: 6,499
    edited January 2020
    ecdanc said:
    Again, you haven't read the thread. You're conflating science (a discourse/method for apprehending reality) with that reality itself. 
    But if reality itself is a construct created by perception and observation...
    lol, just playing devil’s advocate 

    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • Posts: 1,814
    If anyone has any more comments/questions re: the original topic, I'll be back in a bit (heading to take care of the kid now). The rest of you, just keep doing that science!
  • Posts: 1,814
    I kinda feel that this whole thread has become 1 person telling everyone else they are wrong without ever stating anything of their own.  That always bugs me.
    Or it has become several people telling one person he is wrong without saying anything. A matter of perspective?
  • Winnipeg Posts: 39,960
    ecdanc said:
    If anyone has any more comments/questions re: the original topic, I'll be back in a bit (heading to take care of the kid now). The rest of you, just keep doing that science!
    and you keep musing about how science is a philosophical concept. 
    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • Posts: 30,955
    ecdanc said:
    Yet people here express certainty that science isn't a social construct....

    Perhaps we're beginning to see why Simon Young, (potentially fake) PhD compared science to religion. ;) 

    And I'm not saying it is.  But your challenge of "show me something in science detached from the social construct" does not mean that science is purely an output of social construct and that if we had a different construct, some fundamental laws of physics would not be true any longer.  Can you really say that if we evolved to be open about gender identity in a way that was consistent with the Greeks, then perhaps the First Law of Thermodynamics may not longer be true?  Of course not.  That's silly.  But it's essentially what you're saying to us.  
  • Winnipeg Posts: 39,960
    ecdanc said:
    Or it has become several people telling one person he is wrong without saying anything. A matter of perspective?
    no, we express our opinion. you are telling us that scientists would let out a collective groan if they were to see this thread. see the difference?
    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • Posts: 1,814
    and you keep musing about how science is a philosophical concept. 
    Stop misrepresenting my stance. I said social construct, not philosophical concept. 
  • Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    And I'm not saying it is.  But your challenge of "show me something in science detached from the social construct" does not mean that science is purely an output of social construct and that if we had a different construct, some fundamental laws of physics would not be true any longer.  Can you really say that if we evolved to be open about gender identity in a way that was consistent with the Greeks, then perhaps the First Law of Thermodynamics may not longer be true?  Of course not.  That's silly.  But it's essentially what you're saying to us.  
    Again, you’re conflating science with the reality it explores
  • Posts: 30,955
    edited January 2020
    ecdanc said:
    Again, you’re conflating science with the reality it explores
    So if science is successfully (some times at least) exploring reality, and communicating that reality to us, then how can science only be a product of the social construct?  Maybe I'm missing something here, but you're making a statement and then moving the goal posts around, quite a bit.  

    Edit - if that were the case, then when the construct changes, the science would have to change.  Yet that's not the case. 
  • Posts: 1,814
    no, we express our opinion. you are telling us that scientists would let out a collective groan if they were to see this thread. see the difference?
    You don’t get an opinion on this. More accurately, your opinion doesn’t matter. I can have the opinion that throwing spaghetti at my car will make it run better, but that doesn’t mean I’m saying anything about auto repair. 
  • Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    So if science is successfully (some times at least) exploring reality, and communicating that reality to us, then how can science only be a product of the social construct?  Maybe I'm missing something here, but you're making a statement and then moving the goal posts around, quite a bit.  

    Edit - if that were the case, then when the construct changes, the science would have to change.  Yet that's not the case. 
    Two very quick things:

    I didn't say it was a product of the social construct, I said it is a social construct. If I wanted to be more precise, I'd say it's a "discourse," but I'm using that word in a highly specific way, so I've tried to avoid it for clarity. 

    And, umm...science has changed a shit ton, so....yeah. 
  • Winnipeg Posts: 39,960
    ecdanc said:
    You don’t get an opinion on this. More accurately, your opinion doesn’t matter. I can have the opinion that throwing spaghetti at my car will make it run better, but that doesn’t mean I’m saying anything about auto repair. 
    HAHA. 
    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • Winnipeg Posts: 39,960
    ecdanc said:
    Stop misrepresenting my stance. I said social construct, not philosophical concept. 
    you equated it with religion. 
    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • Posts: 30,955
    ecdanc said:
    Two very quick things:

    I didn't say it was a product of the social construct, I said it is a social construct. If I wanted to be more precise, I'd say it's a "discourse," but I'm using that word in a highly specific way, so I've tried to avoid it for clarity. 

    And, umm...science has changed a shit ton, so....yeah. 
    Science changes because more knowledge gained, not because the social construct changes.  You're skipping really important words in my sentence.  That's intellectually dishonest.  
  • Posts: 1,814
    mrussel1 said:
    Science changes because more knowledge gained, not because the social construct changes.  You're skipping really important words in my sentence.  That's intellectually dishonest.  
    No, science also changes because society changes. 
  • Posts: 1,814
    you equated it with religion. 
    No, I compared it to religion. 

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