California to ban suspensions for disruptive students

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

dignin said:

mace1229 said:

You think this is fake outrage? Why?
Have you stepped into an inner-city school? Do you know what goes on there?
Maybe this could have been in the California thread, but in my opinion most of the country is heading this way. And is a sign of how bad our education system is. To me that is very important, who would fake outrage over what is being tolerated in schools today?
La, Chicago, Denver, Baltimore and many more cities are suffering from the same problem. And instead of dealing with it, they just turn away.

Teachers can still suspend students. 

I can tell you from experience that it will become very difficult for that teacher to suspend that student for 2 class periods. Most schools will not support that teacher's right.
I have seen behavior that would warrant a full suspension, and when the kid gets sent to the office he gets escorted by back by a counselor who apologizes on the student's behalf and says he's ready to be back in the classroom. Kid never said a word, never changed behavior, and was gone maybe 10 minutes. Lesson learned from the kid and everyone else who witnessed it is I can do whatever I want and the office doesn't care. And they are right. When you send the message you don't want to suspend students, that is how they handle behavior in the classroom. I've seen it with many other teachers and I've seen it in my own classroom.

This is a drastic change from the bullying outcry from 10 years ago.  You got in a fight or bullied and you were suspended immediately.  Does it hold different for violent acts or do they not get punished either?  Does the kid plotting to shoot up his school get a stern talking to and let back in to class or does he/she actually have consequences for doing these things?

I think crimes/potential crimes against a person would be held in a different regard than just some kid yelling/carrying on in class. 

A kindergartner in my son's class last year threatened to bring in his dad's gun and shoot the teacher. He got a very stern "well, that's not very nice" from the principal.

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

dignin said:

mace1229 said:

You think this is fake outrage? Why?
Have you stepped into an inner-city school? Do you know what goes on there?
Maybe this could have been in the California thread, but in my opinion most of the country is heading this way. And is a sign of how bad our education system is. To me that is very important, who would fake outrage over what is being tolerated in schools today?
La, Chicago, Denver, Baltimore and many more cities are suffering from the same problem. And instead of dealing with it, they just turn away.

Teachers can still suspend students. 

I can tell you from experience that it will become very difficult for that teacher to suspend that student for 2 class periods. Most schools will not support that teacher's right.
I have seen behavior that would warrant a full suspension, and when the kid gets sent to the office he gets escorted by back by a counselor who apologizes on the student's behalf and says he's ready to be back in the classroom. Kid never said a word, never changed behavior, and was gone maybe 10 minutes. Lesson learned from the kid and everyone else who witnessed it is I can do whatever I want and the office doesn't care. And they are right. When you send the message you don't want to suspend students, that is how they handle behavior in the classroom. I've seen it with many other teachers and I've seen it in my own classroom.

This is a drastic change from the bullying outcry from 10 years ago.  You got in a fight or bullied and you were suspended immediately.  Does it hold different for violent acts or do they not get punished either?  Does the kid plotting to shoot up his school get a stern talking to and let back in to class or does he/she actually have consequences for doing these things?

I think crimes/potential crimes against a person would be held in a different regard than just some kid yelling/carrying on in class. 

A kindergartner in my son's class last year threatened to bring in his dad's gun and shoot the teacher. He got a very stern "well, that's not very nice" from the principal.

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

dignin said:

mace1229 said:

You think this is fake outrage? Why?
Have you stepped into an inner-city school? Do you know what goes on there?
Maybe this could have been in the California thread, but in my opinion most of the country is heading this way. And is a sign of how bad our education system is. To me that is very important, who would fake outrage over what is being tolerated in schools today?
La, Chicago, Denver, Baltimore and many more cities are suffering from the same problem. And instead of dealing with it, they just turn away.

Teachers can still suspend students. 

I can tell you from experience that it will become very difficult for that teacher to suspend that student for 2 class periods. Most schools will not support that teacher's right.
I have seen behavior that would warrant a full suspension, and when the kid gets sent to the office he gets escorted by back by a counselor who apologizes on the student's behalf and says he's ready to be back in the classroom. Kid never said a word, never changed behavior, and was gone maybe 10 minutes. Lesson learned from the kid and everyone else who witnessed it is I can do whatever I want and the office doesn't care. And they are right. When you send the message you don't want to suspend students, that is how they handle behavior in the classroom. I've seen it with many other teachers and I've seen it in my own classroom.

This is a drastic change from the bullying outcry from 10 years ago.  You got in a fight or bullied and you were suspended immediately.  Does it hold different for violent acts or do they not get punished either?  Does the kid plotting to shoot up his school get a stern talking to and let back in to class or does he/she actually have consequences for doing these things?

I think crimes/potential crimes against a person would be held in a different regard than just some kid yelling/carrying on in class. 

A kindergartner in my son's class last year threatened to bring in his dad's gun and shoot the teacher. He got a very stern "well, that's not very nice" from the principal.

and that should honestly be treated as a potential threat. kindergartner or not, I don't care. those parents need a visit from a social worker or the cops. 

The dad has the Hitler haircut that all the Proud Boy types wear these days, and the mom is perpetually pregnant with other little angels.

mcgruff10 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

mcgruff10 said:

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

dignin said:

mace1229 said:

You think this is fake outrage? Why?
Have you stepped into an inner-city school? Do you know what goes on there?
Maybe this could have been in the California thread, but in my opinion most of the country is heading this way. And is a sign of how bad our education system is. To me that is very important, who would fake outrage over what is being tolerated in schools today?
La, Chicago, Denver, Baltimore and many more cities are suffering from the same problem. And instead of dealing with it, they just turn away.

Teachers can still suspend students. 

I can tell you from experience that it will become very difficult for that teacher to suspend that student for 2 class periods. Most schools will not support that teacher's right.
I have seen behavior that would warrant a full suspension, and when the kid gets sent to the office he gets escorted by back by a counselor who apologizes on the student's behalf and says he's ready to be back in the classroom. Kid never said a word, never changed behavior, and was gone maybe 10 minutes. Lesson learned from the kid and everyone else who witnessed it is I can do whatever I want and the office doesn't care. And they are right. When you send the message you don't want to suspend students, that is how they handle behavior in the classroom. I've seen it with many other teachers and I've seen it in my own classroom.

This is a drastic change from the bullying outcry from 10 years ago.  You got in a fight or bullied and you were suspended immediately.  Does it hold different for violent acts or do they not get punished either?  Does the kid plotting to shoot up his school get a stern talking to and let back in to class or does he/she actually have consequences for doing these things?

I think crimes/potential crimes against a person would be held in a different regard than just some kid yelling/carrying on in class. 

A kindergartner in my son's class last year threatened to bring in his dad's gun and shoot the teacher. He got a very stern "well, that's not very nice" from the principal.

Move to new jersey!  we just passed Massachusetts to become the countries best public school system.  

Was the error in jest?

Nope.  Typing on my damn iPhone while waiting for the kids at the bus stop.  
Are you happy with the public school in Cherry Hill?

mcgruff10 said:

cincybearcat said:

I see in-school suspension as basically classroom with all involved.  So not isolated per se.  But a place to go, to work quietly and independently. 

I am a big fan of in school suspension over out of school suspension (depending on the violation).  Saturday detentions in our district seem to be very effective.  Four hours of sitting in silence, 8-12, no cell phones, no computer, just a book.  There aren't too many repeat offenders.  

dankind said:

mcgruff10 said:

cincybearcat said:

I see in-school suspension as basically classroom with all involved.  So not isolated per se.  But a place to go, to work quietly and independently. 

I am a big fan of in school suspension over out of school suspension (depending on the violation).  Saturday detentions in our district seem to be very effective.  Four hours of sitting in silence, 8-12, no cell phones, no computer, just a book.  There aren't too many repeat offenders.  

The first time I read the Bible was one of my stints in ISS. The teacher in charge of ISS was always reading it, so I decided to give it a go.

Neat book. Narrative is all over the fucking place, though. Eziekel was a fucking character, man, eating scrolls and shit. Esther was also pretty cool; Vashti got a bum rush.

Also, if my memory serves me well, only one dude claimed Jesus was resurrected, yet that’s the story everyone has chosen to believe in for a couple thousand years? Strange. 

jeffbr said:

Great idea, Brian! I like it!
But seriously, kids need to learn and understand boundaries. Kids also need to understand that every action has a consequence (good or bad). Removing accountability and consequence will leave these kids ill prepared for real life. I'm not looking for for corporal punishment, or crazy nuns smacking kids with rulers, but there needs to be an expectation of behavior while at school, and well defined and followed consequences for not behaving. Ain't life a bitch?

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

I just had a great idea.  Let's tell the parents this:

"OK, here's the deal- you don't want us to suspend your kids when they disrupt the class and make the teacher's job miserable.  So here's what we'll do- instead of suspending the kids for x number of days, we'll keep them and send you a prisoner for x number of days.  That way, you get to see what might become of your kids if you keep fucking up your parenting.  Deal?  Deal."

What do think?  Too much?

To be fair I don’t hear parents complain about it hardly at all. It’s the politicians, school board and civil rights organizations that cause all the fuss.
i have a handful of really challenging kids right now, the parents are either uninvolved or don’t care, or totally support consequences. But the school is afraid to enforce anything because of big organizations.

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

I just had a great idea.  Let's tell the parents this:

"OK, here's the deal- you don't want us to suspend your kids when they disrupt the class and make the teacher's job miserable.  So here's what we'll do- instead of suspending the kids for x number of days, we'll keep them and send you a prisoner for x number of days.  That way, you get to see what might become of your kids if you keep fucking up your parenting.  Deal?  Deal."

What do think?  Too much?

To be fair I don’t hear parents complain about it hardly at all. It’s the politicians, school board and civil rights organizations that cause all the fuss.
i have a handful of really challenging kids right now, the parents are either uninvolved or don’t care, or totally support consequences. But the school is afraid to enforce anything because of big organizations.

"Parents uninvolved or don't care", as you  say, is a big part of it.  But how the hell do we get parents to care?  It's a vicious cycle.

I agree it’s a big part of the problem. Was just pointing out it doesn’t seem to be that parents are behind banning suspensions though.
I’ve heard parents say “my daughter doesn’t need to graduate, her only job is to give me grand babies” or “when he’s at school he’s your problem, stop calling me about his behavior.” It’s really sad. I don’t know how to get parents like that to care.