California to ban suspensions for disruptive students

This bill is a great example why our schools continue to fail. No longer hold kids accountable. If the governor signs this bill, kids will not be allowed to be suspended for willful disobedience. They can be as defiant and disruptive as they want, and as long as they are not violent they can’t be suspended. But hey, who cares about the other 30-40 kids in the room and their right to learn.
I hope someone uses the parents of the disruptive kids for the cost of a private education. Maybe they’ll learn the .

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article234448652.html
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Comments

  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,297
    Wow- this is yet another case of school administrators and lawmakers saying, "We're sorry you young parents are doing such a shitty job of raising your brats but don't worry, we'll put it all on the shoulders of the teachers instead of sending them home for you to deal with."

    File under "Sign of a crumbing civilization #365".

    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 19,886
     I'm really glad I don't live in California.  As a teacher and parent this law boggles my mind.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,177
    Come on, guys.  What wrong with you.  Why do want to discipline those precious ones...
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,011
    I have heard the argument before as to "why would you suspend a kid when the object is for them to be in school and to learn?"

    Well California just said "Hold my beer."
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,011
    mace1229 said:
    This bill is a great example why our schools continue to fail. No longer hold kids accountable. If the governor signs this bill, kids will not be allowed to be suspended for willful disobedience. They can be as defiant and disruptive as they want, and as long as they are not violent they can’t be suspended. But hey, who cares about the other 30-40 kids in the room and their right to learn.
    I hope someone uses the parents of the disruptive kids for the cost of a private education. Maybe they’ll learn the .

    https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article234448652.html
    I read halfway through and had to stop.

    I don't see the logic in this and all I can get out of t is that you(kids) can do whatever you want and it will be ok.

    Am I reading this right?  Am I missing something?
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 17,035
    We see this in our district in NJ.  When the 14 year old first entered Middle School there was much acting out.  We had a conference with the teachers and encouraged them to continue to notify us when there were issues, and 100% to send him from the room to face further discipline from the school.  (Which would, of course, equal more restrictions at home.)  If there are no consequences at school it certainly sends the wrong message....and it directly conflicts with a parent's message/structure for the kid.  If he and "Jimmy" can sit in the back and fuck off and disturb everyone else with no consequences, what is to stop the child who wants to act out from doing that -- and in the process impacting every other child in the room?
    Nothing.

    Anyway - the response we got, consistently, from teachers was 'the administration does not support that line of action.'
    Truly, the only way to get sent from class was to be violent or threatening in some manner.

    So, so, so, so dumb. 

    For people who say that the kid just needs some discipline?  For sure, but that does not solve the issue in many instances.  Some kids are going to act out in school -- and they need to be in trouble for it.  (Whatever that looks like...sent to the office, given detention, extra work, etc...and 100% to notify parents/guardians that the kid is acting out.)  Letting the kids do whatever they want just hurts the kids who want to learn, and the teachers who want to teach.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 12,183
    Did anyone actually read the article, or just the titles?

    Teachers retain the ability to suspend for disruptive behavior and they are encouraging alternate discipline and behavior modification techniques.  When implemented by LA Unified School District suspensions went down and graduation rates went up. 
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,592
    rgambs said:
    Did anyone actually read the article, or just the titles?

    Teachers retain the ability to suspend for disruptive behavior and they are encouraging alternate discipline and behavior modification techniques.  When implemented by LA Unified School District suspensions went down and graduation rates went up. 
    I read it. Teachers can suspend them from their classroom for a period of up to 2 days. Here’s what that would look like. A student is very disruptive, the teacher has the right to remove him for 2 days for that class only. That student will sit in the office or another designated area for those 52 minutes and be given class work to do. 
    And with full suspensions being under the microscope, districts will be less willing to even do that.
    The alternative methods suggested are things like Restorative Justice, which essentially boils down to having a conversation and asking the student why he feels the need to throw scissors and ask the teacher what can he do to make kids not feel the need to throw scissors. In my opinion it is a joke for any real discipline problems. 
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 12,183
    “to provide alternatives to suspension or expulsion, using a research-based framework with strategies that improve behavioral and academic outcomes, that are age appropriate and designed to address and correct the pupil’s specific misbehavior,”

    I don't understand what there is to garumph about in this, I can't help but feel like it's a classic "just read the headline, getoffa my lawn" scenario.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,592
    And yes, no one is surprised that when you ban suspensions, suspensions go down.

    And I worked in LA school district for 4 years. I learned you can’t rely on graduation data. They fudge numbers and it’s easy to make it look a lot higher than it is. 
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,011
    rgambs said:
    “to provide alternatives to suspension or expulsion, using a research-based framework with strategies that improve behavioral and academic outcomes, that are age appropriate and designed to address and correct the pupil’s specific misbehavior,”

    I don't understand what there is to garumph about in this, I can't help but feel like it's a classic "just read the headline, getoffa my lawn" scenario.
    Ehhh,  

    "provide alternatives to suspension or expulsion, using a research-based framework with strategies that improve behavioral and academic outcomes, that are age appropriate and designed to address and correct the pupil’s specific misbehavior,”

    There isn't any alternatives put in place as of yet so it forces whom, teachers or admins, to come up with these alternatives?

    We want an all inclusive world but in reality that doesn't always work.  Some people can't be taught and others are just dicks.  Now the school(s) need to focus a lot of resources and money towards solving something else?  

    I don't know man.  Not liking the taste of this kool-aid.


  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,586
    Unless I read that wrong, it seems they are banning suspensions without first coming up with the alternatives?  Just going to be random school by school?  Seems a weird choice.

    I'm all for reducing out of school suspensions.  I do think removing a kid from the classroom and having an in-school suspension should be an alternative.  You need to be able to remove a distraction from the classroom that while may not affect graduation rates, is affecting the ability of other kids to achieve to their highest potential.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,177
    The school I worked went with in-school suspension for a while.  Basically, the kid was put in a room by him/her self and only allowed out for bathroom breaks and lunch.  I think they had to stop.  I believe they were advised that isolating a student that way is perceived bullying?  Now is it?  I do not know?  I have taken seminars on bullying, it covers a wide range of what could be perceived as bullying.  
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,586
    I see in-school suspension as basically classroom with all involved.  So not isolated per se.  But a place to go, to work quietly and independently. 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 14,153
    I think our classrooms are a spot in which the US is experimenting with following successful models elsewhere (i.e., the Nordics) and finding out that cutting and pasting simply doesn't work. We're not them.

    I'm curious to see how our more prestigious universities look in 10 years or so. My prediction would be that Asians and Europeans comprise more of their student populations than Americans as our public school administrations continue to throw things at the blackboard to see what sticks.

    I wouldn't really care if I didn't have kids of my own in the system. I have no sense of pride in my country or anything like that. The smarter kids should get into the best schools. And it ain't going to be my kids with the way things are going. I've thought about quitting my job and homeschooling them, but I don't really think that I possess the patience to do so.

    Knowing the US, though, we'll likely apply affirmative action type policies to get our adorable little American doofuses into the good schools so that we can add more to our student loan debt problem.
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 18,893
    dankind said:
    I think our classrooms are a spot in which the US is experimenting with following successful models elsewhere (i.e., the Nordics) and finding out that cutting and pasting simply doesn't work. We're not them.

    I'm curious to see how our more prestigious universities look in 10 years or so. My prediction would be that Asians and Europeans comprise more of their student populations than Americans as our public school administrations continue to throw things at the blackboard to see what sticks.

    I wouldn't really care if I didn't have kids of my own in the system. I have no sense of pride in my country or anything like that. The smarter kids should get into the best schools. And it ain't going to be my kids with the way things are going. I've thought about quitting my job and homeschooling them, but I don't really think that I possess the patience to do so.

    Knowing the US, though, we'll likely apply affirmative action type policies to get our adorable little American doofuses into the good schools so that we can add more to our student loan debt problem.
    no Caucasian left behind. 
    Headstones Fan Boy
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,592
    This is not only impacting California, but schools is other areas have already adopted a similar stance. I just moved from Colorado Springs to the Denver area because the pay was so bad. A 10-year veteran teacher with a masters degree will make about 50k in Colorado Springs. Their take home pay after benefits, taxes, retirement plans, etc is under 30k. And that is for a teacher with 10 years experience and masters. 
    So I moved near Denver where after some strikes they have decent pay. But I found out last week my district does not suspend for behavior problems.
    I was told by the admin they were threatened with lawsuits by the ACLU because the district is primarily minorities, and so suspensions were seen as us being racist. I started to question if I made the right decision to move, because after a student was defiant, refused to sit in his seat, threw paper towels at another student, threw scissors in the room all in 1 day, I was told beyond calling home there wasn't really anything else to be done. We are teaching these kids they don't have to obey authority or follow rules. No wonder when I go to McDonald's down the street it is not uncommon to see some new-hire talk back to the manager in front of the customers. That is what we are teaching them to do. The ACLU is threatening a lawsuit for the rights of the 1 disruptive kid, but then they ignore the rights of the other 30 in the class. How is that fair? Like I said before I would love to see a lawsuit against the parents of the disruptive kid for infringing on the education rights of the other 30 in class. I know that would never happen, but it would make me smile if I saw it.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,011
    mace1229 said:
    This is not only impacting California, but schools is other areas have already adopted a similar stance. I just moved from Colorado Springs to the Denver area because the pay was so bad. A 10-year veteran teacher with a masters degree will make about 50k in Colorado Springs. Their take home pay after benefits, taxes, retirement plans, etc is under 30k. And that is for a teacher with 10 years experience and masters. 
    So I moved near Denver where after some strikes they have decent pay. But I found out last week my district does not suspend for behavior problems.
    I was told by the admin they were threatened with lawsuits by the ACLU because the district is primarily minorities, and so suspensions were seen as us being racist. I started to question if I made the right decision to move, because after a student was defiant, refused to sit in his seat, threw paper towels at another student, threw scissors in the room all in 1 day, I was told beyond calling home there wasn't really anything else to be done. We are teaching these kids they don't have to obey authority or follow rules. No wonder when I go to McDonald's down the street it is not uncommon to see some new-hire talk back to the manager in front of the customers. That is what we are teaching them to do. The ACLU is threatening a lawsuit for the rights of the 1 disruptive kid, but then they ignore the rights of the other 30 in the class. How is that fair? Like I said before I would love to see a lawsuit against the parents of the disruptive kid for infringing on the education rights of the other 30 in class. I know that would never happen, but it would make me smile if I saw it.
    I wish we had some younger teacher starting out to see if they agree with you.  After reading the comments of younger folk on Chapelle I'm starting to wonder if it is age gap or there is a new movement that is out of touch?
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,011
    Oh and post this in "All things California"!!!
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,592
    And I forgot to ad the cost of this. In one of my classes there are 3 full-time adults. Instead of suspending kids, kids who are bad enough get a full-time para to follow them to class. In some of my classes there are 2 of us, and in one period 3 adults. And yet we don't have funding for electives, music programs, auto shop and so on. Imagine what other programs we could offer if we didn't have millions of dollars tied up in following unruly kids around. Or maybe start sending the bill to the parents and see how quickly that behavior changes. 
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,297
    rgambs said:
    Did anyone actually read the article, or just the titles?

    Teachers retain the ability to suspend for disruptive behavior and they are encouraging alternate discipline and behavior modification techniques.  When implemented by LA Unified School District suspensions went down and graduation rates went up. 
    Yes, I read the article.  Yes, on paper, teachers retain the right to suspend for up to two days.  But the real issue here is the intent of the bill.  The intent is toward further leniency with disruptive students, further "no child will fail" bullshit., and further cutting slack for parents doing a shitty, irresponsible and inattentive job of raising there little parent-made monsters.  Screwed up kids do fail and the fault is almost always with the parents but some ditzy lawmakers want it to become someone other than the parents problem.  The cascade of problems that follow this line of thinking increases every time some dumbshit clueless administrators and lawmakers come up with this kind of nonsense.  I feel bad as hell for the teachers that have to put up this this nonsense.
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,297
    Oh and post this in "All things California"!!!
    I grew up here.  It used to be a good place.  Fuck California.
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,011
    brianlux said:
    Oh and post this in "All things California"!!!
    I grew up here.  It used to be a good place.  Fuck California.
    lol
  • dignindignin Posts: 7,398
    rgambs said:
    Did anyone actually read the article, or just the titles?

    Teachers retain the ability to suspend for disruptive behavior and they are encouraging alternate discipline and behavior modification techniques.  When implemented by LA Unified School District suspensions went down and graduation rates went up. 
    Another thread that could be merged with the fake outrage thread.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,592
    edited September 6
    You think this is fake outrage? Why?
    Have you stepped into an inner-city school? Do you know what goes on there?
    Maybe this could have been in the California thread, but in my opinion most of the country is heading this way. And is a sign of how bad our education system is. To me that is very important, who would fake outrage over what is being tolerated in schools today?
    La, Chicago, Denver, Baltimore and many more cities are suffering from the same problem. And instead of dealing with it, they just turn away.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,011
    dignin said:
    rgambs said:
    Did anyone actually read the article, or just the titles?

    Teachers retain the ability to suspend for disruptive behavior and they are encouraging alternate discipline and behavior modification techniques.  When implemented by LA Unified School District suspensions went down and graduation rates went up. 
    Another thread that could be merged with the fake outrage thread.
    I'm wondering if the Chapelle one does too?

    I went down a rabbit hole and found myself on a website called "Queerty" reading the comments about the comedy special.  Most people reacted to one part of the show and not the context of the whole show.

    Off topic, sorry...
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 18,893
    Unless I read that wrong, it seems they are banning suspensions without first coming up with the alternatives?  Just going to be random school by school?  Seems a weird choice.

    I'm all for reducing out of school suspensions.  I do think removing a kid from the classroom and having an in-school suspension should be an alternative.  You need to be able to remove a distraction from the classroom that while may not affect graduation rates, is affecting the ability of other kids to achieve to their highest potential.
    i agree. to me, to use a (flawed) parallel to the prison system: rehabilitation should be paramount. if someone is bad, don't just throw them in solitary. same with schools. if a kid is acting up, give the family and child all the support you can in making sure that child can positively integrate back into the class with minimal disruption to the rest of the kids. 

    some kids will be a lost cause. I don't know what the answer is for those kids. But the vast majority I'm sure can be helped and educated successfully. 
    Headstones Fan Boy
  • dignindignin Posts: 7,398
    mace1229 said:
    You think this is fake outrage? Why?
    Have you stepped into an inner-city school? Do you know what goes on there?
    Maybe this could have been in the California thread, but in my opinion most of the country is heading this way. And is a sign of how bad our education system is. To me that is very important, who would fake outrage over what is being tolerated in schools today?
    La, Chicago, Denver, Baltimore and many more cities are suffering from the same problem. And instead of dealing with it, they just turn away.
    Teachers can still suspend students. 
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,586
    dignin said:
    mace1229 said:
    You think this is fake outrage? Why?
    Have you stepped into an inner-city school? Do you know what goes on there?
    Maybe this could have been in the California thread, but in my opinion most of the country is heading this way. And is a sign of how bad our education system is. To me that is very important, who would fake outrage over what is being tolerated in schools today?
    La, Chicago, Denver, Baltimore and many more cities are suffering from the same problem. And instead of dealing with it, they just turn away.
    Teachers can still suspend students. 
    Honestly I think that isn’t pretty weird in itself. The teacher should simply present facts to the principal who has the authority to suspend. Perhaps that’s what they mean?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,297
    dignin said:
    rgambs said:
    Did anyone actually read the article, or just the titles?

    Teachers retain the ability to suspend for disruptive behavior and they are encouraging alternate discipline and behavior modification techniques.  When implemented by LA Unified School District suspensions went down and graduation rates went up. 
    Another thread that could be merged with the fake outrage thread.

    dignin said:
    mace1229 said:
    You think this is fake outrage? Why?
    Have you stepped into an inner-city school? Do you know what goes on there?
    Maybe this could have been in the California thread, but in my opinion most of the country is heading this way. And is a sign of how bad our education system is. To me that is very important, who would fake outrage over what is being tolerated in schools today?
    La, Chicago, Denver, Baltimore and many more cities are suffering from the same problem. And instead of dealing with it, they just turn away.
    Teachers can still suspend students. 

    It's not fake outrage, dignin.  It's another move that makes being a teacher a harder job and being a parent a less responsible job.  Yes, on paper, teachers can still suspend up to 2 days but the intent of the bill is to make it harder for teachers to deal with kids who have been screwed up by shitty parenting.   How much time and under what circumstances have you worked in public schools?  If you have, and it went well, you are in a small minority.  
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







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