California to ban suspensions for disruptive students

brianlux

rgambs said:

Did anyone actually read the article, or just the titles?

Teachers retain the ability to suspend for disruptive behavior and they are encouraging alternate discipline and behavior modification techniques.  When implemented by LA Unified School District suspensions went down and graduation rates went up. 

Yes, I read the article.  Yes, on paper, teachers retain the right to suspend for up to two days.  But the real issue here is the intent of the bill.  The intent is toward further leniency with disruptive students, further "no child will fail" bullshit., and further cutting slack for parents doing a shitty, irresponsible and inattentive job of raising there little parent-made monsters.  Screwed up kids do fail and the fault is almost always with the parents but some ditzy lawmakers want it to become someone other than the parents problem.  The cascade of problems that follow this line of thinking increases every time some dumbshit clueless administrators and lawmakers come up with this kind of nonsense.  I feel bad as hell for the teachers that have to put up this this nonsense.

brianlux

tempo_n_groove said:

Oh and post this in "All things California"!!!

I grew up here.  It used to be a good place.  Fuck California.

tempo_n_groove

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Oh and post this in "All things California"!!!

I grew up here.  It used to be a good place.  Fuck California.

lol

dignin

rgambs said:

Did anyone actually read the article, or just the titles?

Teachers retain the ability to suspend for disruptive behavior and they are encouraging alternate discipline and behavior modification techniques.  When implemented by LA Unified School District suspensions went down and graduation rates went up. 

Another thread that could be merged with the fake outrage thread.

mace1229

You think this is fake outrage? Why?
Have you stepped into an inner-city school? Do you know what goes on there?
Maybe this could have been in the California thread, but in my opinion most of the country is heading this way. And is a sign of how bad our education system is. To me that is very important, who would fake outrage over what is being tolerated in schools today?
La, Chicago, Denver, Baltimore and many more cities are suffering from the same problem. And instead of dealing with it, they just turn away.

tempo_n_groove

dignin said:

rgambs said:

Did anyone actually read the article, or just the titles?

Teachers retain the ability to suspend for disruptive behavior and they are encouraging alternate discipline and behavior modification techniques.  When implemented by LA Unified School District suspensions went down and graduation rates went up. 

Another thread that could be merged with the fake outrage thread.

I'm wondering if the Chapelle one does too?

I went down a rabbit hole and found myself on a website called "Queerty" reading the comments about the comedy special.  Most people reacted to one part of the show and not the context of the whole show.

Off topic, sorry...

HughFreakingDillon

cincybearcat said:

Unless I read that wrong, it seems they are banning suspensions without first coming up with the alternatives?  Just going to be random school by school?  Seems a weird choice.

I'm all for reducing out of school suspensions.  I do think removing a kid from the classroom and having an in-school suspension should be an alternative.  You need to be able to remove a distraction from the classroom that while may not affect graduation rates, is affecting the ability of other kids to achieve to their highest potential.

i agree. to me, to use a (flawed) parallel to the prison system: rehabilitation should be paramount. if someone is bad, don't just throw them in solitary. same with schools. if a kid is acting up, give the family and child all the support you can in making sure that child can positively integrate back into the class with minimal disruption to the rest of the kids. 

some kids will be a lost cause. I don't know what the answer is for those kids. But the vast majority I'm sure can be helped and educated successfully. 

dignin

mace1229 said:

You think this is fake outrage? Why?
Have you stepped into an inner-city school? Do you know what goes on there?
Maybe this could have been in the California thread, but in my opinion most of the country is heading this way. And is a sign of how bad our education system is. To me that is very important, who would fake outrage over what is being tolerated in schools today?
La, Chicago, Denver, Baltimore and many more cities are suffering from the same problem. And instead of dealing with it, they just turn away.

Teachers can still suspend students. 

cincybearcat

dignin said:

mace1229 said:

You think this is fake outrage? Why?
Have you stepped into an inner-city school? Do you know what goes on there?
Maybe this could have been in the California thread, but in my opinion most of the country is heading this way. And is a sign of how bad our education system is. To me that is very important, who would fake outrage over what is being tolerated in schools today?
La, Chicago, Denver, Baltimore and many more cities are suffering from the same problem. And instead of dealing with it, they just turn away.

Teachers can still suspend students. 

Honestly I think that isn’t pretty weird in itself. The teacher should simply present facts to the principal who has the authority to suspend. Perhaps that’s what they mean?

brianlux

dignin said:

rgambs said:

Did anyone actually read the article, or just the titles?

Teachers retain the ability to suspend for disruptive behavior and they are encouraging alternate discipline and behavior modification techniques.  When implemented by LA Unified School District suspensions went down and graduation rates went up. 

Another thread that could be merged with the fake outrage thread.

dignin said:

mace1229 said:

You think this is fake outrage? Why?
Have you stepped into an inner-city school? Do you know what goes on there?
Maybe this could have been in the California thread, but in my opinion most of the country is heading this way. And is a sign of how bad our education system is. To me that is very important, who would fake outrage over what is being tolerated in schools today?
La, Chicago, Denver, Baltimore and many more cities are suffering from the same problem. And instead of dealing with it, they just turn away.

Teachers can still suspend students. 

It's not fake outrage, dignin.  It's another move that makes being a teacher a harder job and being a parent a less responsible job.  Yes, on paper, teachers can still suspend up to 2 days but the intent of the bill is to make it harder for teachers to deal with kids who have been screwed up by shitty parenting.   How much time and under what circumstances have you worked in public schools?  If you have, and it went well, you are in a small minority.  

F Me In The Brain

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

Did anyone actually read the article, or just the titles?

Teachers retain the ability to suspend for disruptive behavior and they are encouraging alternate discipline and behavior modification techniques.  When implemented by LA Unified School District suspensions went down and graduation rates went up. 

Yes, I read the article.  Yes, on paper, teachers retain the right to suspend for up to two days.  But the real issue here is the intent of the bill.  The intent is toward further leniency with disruptive students, further "no child will fail" bullshit., and further cutting slack for parents doing a shitty, irresponsible and inattentive job of raising there little parent-made monsters.  Screwed up kids do fail and the fault is almost always with the parents but some ditzy lawmakers want it to become someone other than the parents problem.  The cascade of problems that follow this line of thinking increases every time some dumbshit clueless administrators and lawmakers come up with this kind of nonsense.  I feel bad as hell for the teachers that have to put up this this nonsense.

Agree - some of us are/were trying to raise someone else's fucked up kids and having pretty much zero support from the school system made this so much tougher than it had to be.

dignin

It's harder to cast kids aside, and they are showing better results with kids graduating. Results driven and it sounds like a win to me.

dankind

dignin said:

It's harder to cast kids aside, and they are showing better results with kids graduating. Results driven and it sounds like a win to me.

According to one of the bill's co-sponsors, so, yeah, I'm just going to go right ahead and take that at face value.

And even if that's the case, a high school diploma is worth about what I just flushed down the toilet at work. Show me some third-party hard evidence of these kids getting accepted into postsecondary institutions and/or internships/work-study programs, and then I'll consider it a bill worth passing. I'd add that educators should get mandatory recurring training sessions on how to navigate the new system and that the state should pay for it since the state is making the legislation. 

tempo_n_groove

dignin said:

It's harder to cast kids aside, and they are showing better results with kids graduating. Results driven and it sounds like a win to me.

They pass these kids through the system now.  It's just easier that way and "look at the charts!  It's working!"

I have many friends in alternative teaching and many a teacher is told to pass them through.

True story.

dankind

tempo_n_groove said:

dignin said:

It's harder to cast kids aside, and they are showing better results with kids graduating. Results driven and it sounds like a win to me.

They pass these kids through the system now.  It's just easier that way and "look at the charts!  It's working!"

I have many friends in alternative teaching and many a teacher is told to pass them through.

True story.

Haha. And it doesn't stop there.

I have a buddy who taught at an Ivy League university. He had this real dolt in class, the first (and only) student he ever gave an F to on an assignment. Shortly after that F, my buddy was called to the carpet and had to defend his grading. The student was the grandkid of the billionaire whose name was on the university's library; the student should receive no grade lower than a C minus going forward.

Things are half-assed all over.

F Me In The Brain

dankind said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dignin said:

It's harder to cast kids aside, and they are showing better results with kids graduating. Results driven and it sounds like a win to me.

They pass these kids through the system now.  It's just easier that way and "look at the charts!  It's working!"

I have many friends in alternative teaching and many a teacher is told to pass them through.

True story.

Haha. And it doesn't stop there.

I have a buddy who taught at an Ivy League university. He had this real dolt in class, the first (and only) student he ever gave an F to on an assignment. Shortly after that F, my buddy was called to the carpet and had to defend his grading. The student was the grandkid of the billionaire whose name was on the university's library; the student should receive no grade lower than a C minus going forward.

Things are half-assed all over.

mace1229

dignin said:

mace1229 said:

You think this is fake outrage? Why?
Have you stepped into an inner-city school? Do you know what goes on there?
Maybe this could have been in the California thread, but in my opinion most of the country is heading this way. And is a sign of how bad our education system is. To me that is very important, who would fake outrage over what is being tolerated in schools today?
La, Chicago, Denver, Baltimore and many more cities are suffering from the same problem. And instead of dealing with it, they just turn away.

Teachers can still suspend students. 

I can tell you from experience that it will become very difficult for that teacher to suspend that student for 2 class periods. Most schools will not support that teacher's right.
I have seen behavior that would warrant a full suspension, and when the kid gets sent to the office he gets escorted by back by a counselor who apologizes on the student's behalf and says he's ready to be back in the classroom. Kid never said a word, never changed behavior, and was gone maybe 10 minutes. Lesson learned from the kid and everyone else who witnessed it is I can do whatever I want and the office doesn't care. And they are right. When you send the message you don't want to suspend students, that is how they handle behavior in the classroom. I've seen it with many other teachers and I've seen it in my own classroom.

tempo_n_groove

mace1229 said:

dignin said:

mace1229 said:

You think this is fake outrage? Why?
Have you stepped into an inner-city school? Do you know what goes on there?
Maybe this could have been in the California thread, but in my opinion most of the country is heading this way. And is a sign of how bad our education system is. To me that is very important, who would fake outrage over what is being tolerated in schools today?
La, Chicago, Denver, Baltimore and many more cities are suffering from the same problem. And instead of dealing with it, they just turn away.

Teachers can still suspend students. 

I can tell you from experience that it will become very difficult for that teacher to suspend that student for 2 class periods. Most schools will not support that teacher's right.
I have seen behavior that would warrant a full suspension, and when the kid gets sent to the office he gets escorted by back by a counselor who apologizes on the student's behalf and says he's ready to be back in the classroom. Kid never said a word, never changed behavior, and was gone maybe 10 minutes. Lesson learned from the kid and everyone else who witnessed it is I can do whatever I want and the office doesn't care. And they are right. When you send the message you don't want to suspend students, that is how they handle behavior in the classroom. I've seen it with many other teachers and I've seen it in my own classroom.

This is a drastic change from the bullying outcry from 10 years ago.  You got in a fight or bullied and you were suspended immediately.  Does it hold different for violent acts or do they not get punished either?  Does the kid plotting to shoot up his school get a stern talking to and let back in to class or does he/she actually have consequences for doing these things?

HughFreakingDillon

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

dignin said:

mace1229 said:

You think this is fake outrage? Why?
Have you stepped into an inner-city school? Do you know what goes on there?
Maybe this could have been in the California thread, but in my opinion most of the country is heading this way. And is a sign of how bad our education system is. To me that is very important, who would fake outrage over what is being tolerated in schools today?
La, Chicago, Denver, Baltimore and many more cities are suffering from the same problem. And instead of dealing with it, they just turn away.

Teachers can still suspend students. 

I can tell you from experience that it will become very difficult for that teacher to suspend that student for 2 class periods. Most schools will not support that teacher's right.
I have seen behavior that would warrant a full suspension, and when the kid gets sent to the office he gets escorted by back by a counselor who apologizes on the student's behalf and says he's ready to be back in the classroom. Kid never said a word, never changed behavior, and was gone maybe 10 minutes. Lesson learned from the kid and everyone else who witnessed it is I can do whatever I want and the office doesn't care. And they are right. When you send the message you don't want to suspend students, that is how they handle behavior in the classroom. I've seen it with many other teachers and I've seen it in my own classroom.

This is a drastic change from the bullying outcry from 10 years ago.  You got in a fight or bullied and you were suspended immediately.  Does it hold different for violent acts or do they not get punished either?  Does the kid plotting to shoot up his school get a stern talking to and let back in to class or does he/she actually have consequences for doing these things?

I think crimes/potential crimes against a person would be held in a different regard than just some kid yelling/carrying on in class. 

dankind

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

dignin said:

mace1229 said:

You think this is fake outrage? Why?
Have you stepped into an inner-city school? Do you know what goes on there?
Maybe this could have been in the California thread, but in my opinion most of the country is heading this way. And is a sign of how bad our education system is. To me that is very important, who would fake outrage over what is being tolerated in schools today?
La, Chicago, Denver, Baltimore and many more cities are suffering from the same problem. And instead of dealing with it, they just turn away.

Teachers can still suspend students. 

I can tell you from experience that it will become very difficult for that teacher to suspend that student for 2 class periods. Most schools will not support that teacher's right.
I have seen behavior that would warrant a full suspension, and when the kid gets sent to the office he gets escorted by back by a counselor who apologizes on the student's behalf and says he's ready to be back in the classroom. Kid never said a word, never changed behavior, and was gone maybe 10 minutes. Lesson learned from the kid and everyone else who witnessed it is I can do whatever I want and the office doesn't care. And they are right. When you send the message you don't want to suspend students, that is how they handle behavior in the classroom. I've seen it with many other teachers and I've seen it in my own classroom.

This is a drastic change from the bullying outcry from 10 years ago.  You got in a fight or bullied and you were suspended immediately.  Does it hold different for violent acts or do they not get punished either?  Does the kid plotting to shoot up his school get a stern talking to and let back in to class or does he/she actually have consequences for doing these things?

I think crimes/potential crimes against a person would be held in a different regard than just some kid yelling/carrying on in class. 

A kindergartner in my son's class last year threatened to bring in his dad's gun and shoot the teacher. He got a very stern "well, that's not very nice" from the principal.