oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

Hi! said:

brianlux said:

Hi! said:

brianlux said:

I was talking with my wife (who got home to late to watch) about the debates.  She dislikes Trump as much as anyone I know and said, "Trump has a lot of charisma.  His followers are like a cult.  The democrats need to find someone who can inspire and pull in enough votes to get Trump out of there." 

I agree.  And that leaves me feeling a bit nervous.  I don't see anyone (yet) with the charisma and ability to present well and speak well the way Obama does.  What I saw tonight were:

-Old men shaking fingers.

-Women yelling (one nearly screeching).

-Young men struggling and sweating.

-More focus on immigration than environment (ruin the planet and everyone goes away).

-Feeble attempts at nods to LGBTQ issues.

-All of the above trying to out yell each other.

Nothing inspiring there.

I had that exact same feeling tonight. I think it’s referred to as “cult of personality” IDK 
I do think it was a decent debate though, Harris did a great job.

Yeah, Kamala is smart.  She's a possibility.  If she were stronger on environment, I could get behind her.

Hmm, during the climate change parts of the debate I thought she gave some really solid answers. Hard for people to elaborate more due to time constraints obviously, but I thought she was strong on the issue of climate change. I liked how she referred to Trump as a threat to national security due his beliefs in climate fiction over climate facts.

Good to know!  I missed that part.  Our reception here goes in and out.  I missed about 1/3 of the debate.

Your reception? Are you living in 1979, Brian?

Haha!  Oh, that was a great year.  Yeah, I could get stuck there! 

No, we're in a semi rural area that requires satellite (or maybe there is cable here now, I'm not sure) and I'm just not enough of a TV guy to pay for that much for the little TV I watch.  I have you and the others here to keep me plenty amused.   

Not that great a year for me, but then again I was a tender age

Do you have dial up, Brian?

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

Hi! said:

brianlux said:

Hi! said:

brianlux said:

I was talking with my wife (who got home to late to watch) about the debates.  She dislikes Trump as much as anyone I know and said, "Trump has a lot of charisma.  His followers are like a cult.  The democrats need to find someone who can inspire and pull in enough votes to get Trump out of there." 

I agree.  And that leaves me feeling a bit nervous.  I don't see anyone (yet) with the charisma and ability to present well and speak well the way Obama does.  What I saw tonight were:

-Old men shaking fingers.

-Women yelling (one nearly screeching).

-Young men struggling and sweating.

-More focus on immigration than environment (ruin the planet and everyone goes away).

-Feeble attempts at nods to LGBTQ issues.

-All of the above trying to out yell each other.

Nothing inspiring there.

I had that exact same feeling tonight. I think it’s referred to as “cult of personality” IDK 
I do think it was a decent debate though, Harris did a great job.

Yeah, Kamala is smart.  She's a possibility.  If she were stronger on environment, I could get behind her.

Hmm, during the climate change parts of the debate I thought she gave some really solid answers. Hard for people to elaborate more due to time constraints obviously, but I thought she was strong on the issue of climate change. I liked how she referred to Trump as a threat to national security due his beliefs in climate fiction over climate facts.

Good to know!  I missed that part.  Our reception here goes in and out.  I missed about 1/3 of the debate.

Your reception? Are you living in 1979, Brian?

Haha!  Oh, that was a great year.  Yeah, I could get stuck there! 

No, we're in a semi rural area that requires satellite (or maybe there is cable here now, I'm not sure) and I'm just not enough of a TV guy to pay for that much for the little TV I watch.  I have you and the others here to keep me plenty amused.   

Not that great a year for me, but then again I was a tender age

Do you have dial up, Brian?

No, I have that slow version of high speed internet knows as DSL (Disastrously Slow Laptop).

I was a cord cutter for about 10 years and decided to try cable...after 6 months of that crap...time to cut the cord again.  

The Juggler said:

1-Kamala



2-Bennett
3-Pete

Then everyone else. Kamala TKO’d Biden

dignin said:

The Juggler said:

1-Kamala



2-Bennett
3-Pete

Then everyone else. Kamala TKO’d Biden

Bennett was good but I'm not quite sure he was better than Pete.

But yup, Kamala by a mile. 

brianlux said:

I was talking with my wife (who got home to late to watch) about the debates.  She dislikes Trump as much as anyone I know and said, "Trump has a lot of charisma.  His followers are like a cult.  The democrats need to find someone who can inspire and pull in enough votes to get Trump out of there." 

I agree.  And that leaves me feeling a bit nervous.  I don't see anyone (yet) with the charisma and ability to present well and speak well the way Obama does.  What I saw tonight were:

-Old men shaking fingers.

-Women yelling (one nearly screeching).

-Young men struggling and sweating.

-More focus on immigration than environment (ruin the planet and everyone goes away).

-Feeble attempts at nods to LGBTQ issues.

-All of the above trying to out yell each other.

Nothing inspiring there.

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Jearlpam0925 said:

Let's be clear about something here on student loan debt. It is on a path that goes beyond this dumb label of just stamping people with a label of "oh, you knew what you were getting into." Stop with that shit right now. I paid my loans. Do I want future generations to continue on the trajectory it's currently on? Absolutely not. "Because I did it means everyone else should do it" is terrible logic. There is a problem. It needs to be fixed as it's not sustainable. But like everything in our world - people like to pretend something isn't their problem when they're not individually attached to the issue (usually a beautifully dystopic Libertarian viewpoint).

First, they need to get rid of subsidized loans - that's #1: subsidies only drive up costs. #2 - the cost of college and higher education is no where even fucking close to what it was 20, 30, 40 years ago. Hell, it's not even close to what it was 10 years ago. College is not supposed to be only an accessible benefit to the wealthy. #3 the benefit to the economy as a whole by putting more money in the wallets of the largest generation since the fucking garbage Boomers would outweigh any costs to taxpayers. 

#4 - while we're on the topic of what comes out of my wallet for taxes that I don't want to pay for - I could name an endless list of shit that I'd want my money back from right now instead of helping out higher education. Namely, we all bitch about this college plan shit (even though Warren's plan taxes the ultra wealthy of the wealthies to fund this) when it's a fucking drop in the ocean to how much of our actual dollars are taken out of our actual wallets for some garbage war going on somewhere that in no way benefits us whatsoever.

Do I think higher education should be free? Not at all, but the access and opportunity should be fair and equal. And it is not right now.

Warren is by far the most qualified candidate both in experience and, more importantly, detail of policy. She should have been given the keys to the CFPB, as she was the one who started it. Where Obama completely dropped the ball was by not dropping the hammer on large bank and investment firm execs ten years ago, and if Warren was actually heading the CFPB this would have happened. 

Student loans and subsidies are not not the problem.  It's the cost curve of education outpacing inflation is the problem.  I also don't understand how one argues that subsidies drive up cost,  unless you're arguing that it allows too many people to go to college,  thereby driving up the cost.  

Last,  no one has articulated how this loan forgiveness isn't a regressive tax.  In fact the Post had a long editorial today calling it a rich kid bailout.  I'll post it later,  but it is. 

But WHY are college costs increasing by about 2x the inflation rate? Because more people can pay for tuition because of widely available loans.

So why are loans widely available? Because they are guaranteed. 

That is the subsidy driving up demand and limiting supply and causing tuition to increase roughly double the inflation rate.

If Warren or Sanders think they are going to win the presidency with another giveaway, we are looking at 4 more years. Address the problem, the hidden subsidy of guarantees. 

I don't know how you run on a platform if reducing access to universities.  That's not a winner.  I also think there's more to it than just subsidies.  State appointed funding has been reduced in many cases and some make the case that the reduced tuition to underprivileged has passed on higher costs to full tuition students.  Then there's the arguments about amenities,  including targeted facilities for athletes.  My guess is it's some combination of all.  Subsidies and loan guarantees are a big part I'm sure.  

I agree it's a rock and hard place. If Warren is the nom and she starts promising free stuff like tuition and debt forgiveness, its 4 more years.

A smarter tactic would be to offer lower cost tuition for 2 year colleges and lower interest rates and extended terms. Even throw in some volunteering to pay down loans.

But free stuff? They'll get tagged socialist and its hello Blondie.

Can people stop with the "free stuff" line. That's a GOP false narrative and talking point that progressives shouldn't fall for.

Nothings free, the burden is just lifted off the student or patient and carried by the rest of the populace through higher taxes. Specifically from the highest of earners.

Nobody with two brain cells to scrape together in Canada thinks our single payer health care system is free. We all pay for it together, and were happy to do it.

Healthcare and tertiary education shouldn't be discussed with the same arguments.  One is a human right,  the other is not even close.

RYME said:

Donald Trump is a racist Trump supporters are a cult.  That's not going to get you very far either.  Hit the snooze button please Zzzzzzzzzzzzz.