The Evolution of Handwriting

2456

Comments

  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,752
    Cursive is like the horse drawn buggy. Sure it’ll still get you where you are going, but it’s old, outdated and not as fast as a car. 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,534
    Cursive is like the horse drawn buggy. Sure it’ll still get you where you are going, but it’s old, outdated and not as fast as a car. 
    Long live the horse!

    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,534
    njnancy said:
    When i was in Catholic school, grades 1 - 8, Penmanship was a primary subject every year. We would be graded quarterly and at year end and it was of equal importance as Science or Reading. One could get left back if they had an F in penmanship and I suppose in another subject. (I got A's in everything so I'm not sure :smiley: )

    I prefer writing on paper than writing in a computer, although one of the smartest classes I took in high school was typing. There were no computers back then, just typewriters, but it is probably one of the classes that had a direct impact on my life. Being able to type quickly is handy, back when I was using a typewriter for work and when computers appeared I was able to type even faster.

    But when it comes to calendars, lists of things to do and journaling I always use pen and pepper and cursive. I have had a journal since grammar school (well not the same one, it would be quite large) so I have lots of books that have covered my life and they are all in cursive. I  find that when I'm writing, cursive is much faster than printing and I feel much more connected to a pen and paper than to what I'm doing now.  I am able to to express myself on a different level when I'm writing on paper. 

    When I am on the phone with any type of customer service, doctor's office, information source - I always write down the information I get in a book or on a piece of paper. I don't enter it into a computer. I have my doctor's appointments, birthdays, etc on actual calendars - not in my computer. When I was a waitress, I would not have been as good if I had to print what people were ordering instead of using cursive, it would have been a nightmare.  And being able to have a signature (and variations of it for signing in public places) is essential. 

    If I am at a lecture or taking a class in something, I write notes in a book. Most people have their laptops and I absolutely love my laptop and all things tech, but I don't feel like I'm getting the information down as clearly if I'm not writing it down in a book. It just feels different. I hate sending people texts or posts for their birthdays, I feel it is so impersonal and prefer to send a card or a letter when it's appropriate. And I don't lose all my info  if I hit the wrong key or my computer goes all blue screen on me. I can save a treasured card someone sent me with a little note and it's nice to have something special with their handwriting on it. Not so much with a text. :heart:

    Part of my degree is in English so I may be the outlier. I love proper grammar and spelling and punctuation and cursive writing. I absolutely love to copy edit, it's one of the best jobs I've had. And I still use it on a free lance basis.  I think that we are losing something as a society with the shorthand and shortcuts we take with our language with phones and computers. People don't put as much effort into their writing in this type of a forum. :glasses:

    My son still has problems signing his name and he is 21. He  was taught penmanship  as part of English for one or two years in  grammar school and I bought all kinds of books for practice and sat with him for hours but he just never got it. I think that part of it was that the school really didn't put much emphasis on it. (He didn't have to deal with nuns, I kindly sent him to public school) He also had really no interest in it after he found that he wasn't good at it. This was before he had a cell phone so I can't blame it on that.  After those two years, there was no more penmanship lessons and my son, to this day, writes in print and not so well. I used to have to hold the pen with him when he was signing something. He had no clue how to do it. I think that is sad. 

    I think all 21 year olds should have a legible signature and be able to read what someone writes if it's in cursive, I shouldn't have to dumb down and print so my child can understand me. He cannot understand cursive writing, it's like it's in another language. I keep writing in cursive though, hoping he learns the language.

    I have nice handwriting, my signature is the same, except when signing in stores. It's neat and legible, unless I'm journalling and I'm writing really quickly and trying to write too many thoughts at once.  Then it can get whacky. But there's something personal about how my emotion can change my handwriting and that is lost when typing. 

    Penmanship is important - shoot me. Both ways of expression can co-exist. We stop using part of our brain when we no longer find the written word to be important and something to do well.  (And my love for all things English language and cursive is probably why I write such long posts that are so annoying to some. I text the same way sometimes.  Sorry, not really.) :tongue:
    I enjoyed reading this, Nancy, thanks!

    You're in good company with cursive handwritten journals.  Many great writers in the past as well as today do the same.

    Seems I remember reading that John Steinbeck wrote all his book manuscripts with a no. 2 pencil on yellow legal pads... in cursive!

    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,752
    brianlux said:
    njnancy said:
    When i was in Catholic school, grades 1 - 8, Penmanship was a primary subject every year. We would be graded quarterly and at year end and it was of equal importance as Science or Reading. One could get left back if they had an F in penmanship and I suppose in another subject. (I got A's in everything so I'm not sure :smiley: )

    I prefer writing on paper than writing in a computer, although one of the smartest classes I took in high school was typing. There were no computers back then, just typewriters, but it is probably one of the classes that had a direct impact on my life. Being able to type quickly is handy, back when I was using a typewriter for work and when computers appeared I was able to type even faster.

    But when it comes to calendars, lists of things to do and journaling I always use pen and pepper and cursive. I have had a journal since grammar school (well not the same one, it would be quite large) so I have lots of books that have covered my life and they are all in cursive. I  find that when I'm writing, cursive is much faster than printing and I feel much more connected to a pen and paper than to what I'm doing now.  I am able to to express myself on a different level when I'm writing on paper. 

    When I am on the phone with any type of customer service, doctor's office, information source - I always write down the information I get in a book or on a piece of paper. I don't enter it into a computer. I have my doctor's appointments, birthdays, etc on actual calendars - not in my computer. When I was a waitress, I would not have been as good if I had to print what people were ordering instead of using cursive, it would have been a nightmare.  And being able to have a signature (and variations of it for signing in public places) is essential. 

    If I am at a lecture or taking a class in something, I write notes in a book. Most people have their laptops and I absolutely love my laptop and all things tech, but I don't feel like I'm getting the information down as clearly if I'm not writing it down in a book. It just feels different. I hate sending people texts or posts for their birthdays, I feel it is so impersonal and prefer to send a card or a letter when it's appropriate. And I don't lose all my info  if I hit the wrong key or my computer goes all blue screen on me. I can save a treasured card someone sent me with a little note and it's nice to have something special with their handwriting on it. Not so much with a text. :heart:

    Part of my degree is in English so I may be the outlier. I love proper grammar and spelling and punctuation and cursive writing. I absolutely love to copy edit, it's one of the best jobs I've had. And I still use it on a free lance basis.  I think that we are losing something as a society with the shorthand and shortcuts we take with our language with phones and computers. People don't put as much effort into their writing in this type of a forum. :glasses:

    My son still has problems signing his name and he is 21. He  was taught penmanship  as part of English for one or two years in  grammar school and I bought all kinds of books for practice and sat with him for hours but he just never got it. I think that part of it was that the school really didn't put much emphasis on it. (He didn't have to deal with nuns, I kindly sent him to public school) He also had really no interest in it after he found that he wasn't good at it. This was before he had a cell phone so I can't blame it on that.  After those two years, there was no more penmanship lessons and my son, to this day, writes in print and not so well. I used to have to hold the pen with him when he was signing something. He had no clue how to do it. I think that is sad. 

    I think all 21 year olds should have a legible signature and be able to read what someone writes if it's in cursive, I shouldn't have to dumb down and print so my child can understand me. He cannot understand cursive writing, it's like it's in another language. I keep writing in cursive though, hoping he learns the language.

    I have nice handwriting, my signature is the same, except when signing in stores. It's neat and legible, unless I'm journalling and I'm writing really quickly and trying to write too many thoughts at once.  Then it can get whacky. But there's something personal about how my emotion can change my handwriting and that is lost when typing. 

    Penmanship is important - shoot me. Both ways of expression can co-exist. We stop using part of our brain when we no longer find the written word to be important and something to do well.  (And my love for all things English language and cursive is probably why I write such long posts that are so annoying to some. I text the same way sometimes.  Sorry, not really.) :tongue:
    I enjoyed reading this, Nancy, thanks!

    You're in good company with cursive handwritten journals.  Many great writers in the past as well as today do the same.

    Seems I remember reading that John Steinbeck wrote all his book manuscripts with a no. 2 pencil on yellow legal pads... in cursive!

    And now he is dead
    hippiemom = goodness
  • drakeheuer14drakeheuer14 Posts: 2,625
    brianlux said:
    njnancy said:
    When i was in Catholic school, grades 1 - 8, Penmanship was a primary subject every year. We would be graded quarterly and at year end and it was of equal importance as Science or Reading. One could get left back if they had an F in penmanship and I suppose in another subject. (I got A's in everything so I'm not sure :smiley: )

    I prefer writing on paper than writing in a computer, although one of the smartest classes I took in high school was typing. There were no computers back then, just typewriters, but it is probably one of the classes that had a direct impact on my life. Being able to type quickly is handy, back when I was using a typewriter for work and when computers appeared I was able to type even faster.

    But when it comes to calendars, lists of things to do and journaling I always use pen and pepper and cursive. I have had a journal since grammar school (well not the same one, it would be quite large) so I have lots of books that have covered my life and they are all in cursive. I  find that when I'm writing, cursive is much faster than printing and I feel much more connected to a pen and paper than to what I'm doing now.  I am able to to express myself on a different level when I'm writing on paper. 

    When I am on the phone with any type of customer service, doctor's office, information source - I always write down the information I get in a book or on a piece of paper. I don't enter it into a computer. I have my doctor's appointments, birthdays, etc on actual calendars - not in my computer. When I was a waitress, I would not have been as good if I had to print what people were ordering instead of using cursive, it would have been a nightmare.  And being able to have a signature (and variations of it for signing in public places) is essential. 

    If I am at a lecture or taking a class in something, I write notes in a book. Most people have their laptops and I absolutely love my laptop and all things tech, but I don't feel like I'm getting the information down as clearly if I'm not writing it down in a book. It just feels different. I hate sending people texts or posts for their birthdays, I feel it is so impersonal and prefer to send a card or a letter when it's appropriate. And I don't lose all my info  if I hit the wrong key or my computer goes all blue screen on me. I can save a treasured card someone sent me with a little note and it's nice to have something special with their handwriting on it. Not so much with a text. :heart:

    Part of my degree is in English so I may be the outlier. I love proper grammar and spelling and punctuation and cursive writing. I absolutely love to copy edit, it's one of the best jobs I've had. And I still use it on a free lance basis.  I think that we are losing something as a society with the shorthand and shortcuts we take with our language with phones and computers. People don't put as much effort into their writing in this type of a forum. :glasses:

    My son still has problems signing his name and he is 21. He  was taught penmanship  as part of English for one or two years in  grammar school and I bought all kinds of books for practice and sat with him for hours but he just never got it. I think that part of it was that the school really didn't put much emphasis on it. (He didn't have to deal with nuns, I kindly sent him to public school) He also had really no interest in it after he found that he wasn't good at it. This was before he had a cell phone so I can't blame it on that.  After those two years, there was no more penmanship lessons and my son, to this day, writes in print and not so well. I used to have to hold the pen with him when he was signing something. He had no clue how to do it. I think that is sad. 

    I think all 21 year olds should have a legible signature and be able to read what someone writes if it's in cursive, I shouldn't have to dumb down and print so my child can understand me. He cannot understand cursive writing, it's like it's in another language. I keep writing in cursive though, hoping he learns the language.

    I have nice handwriting, my signature is the same, except when signing in stores. It's neat and legible, unless I'm journalling and I'm writing really quickly and trying to write too many thoughts at once.  Then it can get whacky. But there's something personal about how my emotion can change my handwriting and that is lost when typing. 

    Penmanship is important - shoot me. Both ways of expression can co-exist. We stop using part of our brain when we no longer find the written word to be important and something to do well.  (And my love for all things English language and cursive is probably why I write such long posts that are so annoying to some. I text the same way sometimes.  Sorry, not really.) :tongue:
    I enjoyed reading this, Nancy, thanks!

    You're in good company with cursive handwritten journals.  Many great writers in the past as well as today do the same.

    Seems I remember reading that John Steinbeck wrote all his book manuscripts with a no. 2 pencil on yellow legal pads... in cursive!

    And now he is dead
    I lol’d 
    Pittsburgh 2013
    Cincinnati 2014
    Greenville 2016
    (Raleigh 2016)
    Columbia 2016
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,534
    brianlux said:
    njnancy said:
    When i was in Catholic school, grades 1 - 8, Penmanship was a primary subject every year. We would be graded quarterly and at year end and it was of equal importance as Science or Reading. One could get left back if they had an F in penmanship and I suppose in another subject. (I got A's in everything so I'm not sure :smiley: )

    I prefer writing on paper than writing in a computer, although one of the smartest classes I took in high school was typing. There were no computers back then, just typewriters, but it is probably one of the classes that had a direct impact on my life. Being able to type quickly is handy, back when I was using a typewriter for work and when computers appeared I was able to type even faster.

    But when it comes to calendars, lists of things to do and journaling I always use pen and pepper and cursive. I have had a journal since grammar school (well not the same one, it would be quite large) so I have lots of books that have covered my life and they are all in cursive. I  find that when I'm writing, cursive is much faster than printing and I feel much more connected to a pen and paper than to what I'm doing now.  I am able to to express myself on a different level when I'm writing on paper. 

    When I am on the phone with any type of customer service, doctor's office, information source - I always write down the information I get in a book or on a piece of paper. I don't enter it into a computer. I have my doctor's appointments, birthdays, etc on actual calendars - not in my computer. When I was a waitress, I would not have been as good if I had to print what people were ordering instead of using cursive, it would have been a nightmare.  And being able to have a signature (and variations of it for signing in public places) is essential. 

    If I am at a lecture or taking a class in something, I write notes in a book. Most people have their laptops and I absolutely love my laptop and all things tech, but I don't feel like I'm getting the information down as clearly if I'm not writing it down in a book. It just feels different. I hate sending people texts or posts for their birthdays, I feel it is so impersonal and prefer to send a card or a letter when it's appropriate. And I don't lose all my info  if I hit the wrong key or my computer goes all blue screen on me. I can save a treasured card someone sent me with a little note and it's nice to have something special with their handwriting on it. Not so much with a text. :heart:

    Part of my degree is in English so I may be the outlier. I love proper grammar and spelling and punctuation and cursive writing. I absolutely love to copy edit, it's one of the best jobs I've had. And I still use it on a free lance basis.  I think that we are losing something as a society with the shorthand and shortcuts we take with our language with phones and computers. People don't put as much effort into their writing in this type of a forum. :glasses:

    My son still has problems signing his name and he is 21. He  was taught penmanship  as part of English for one or two years in  grammar school and I bought all kinds of books for practice and sat with him for hours but he just never got it. I think that part of it was that the school really didn't put much emphasis on it. (He didn't have to deal with nuns, I kindly sent him to public school) He also had really no interest in it after he found that he wasn't good at it. This was before he had a cell phone so I can't blame it on that.  After those two years, there was no more penmanship lessons and my son, to this day, writes in print and not so well. I used to have to hold the pen with him when he was signing something. He had no clue how to do it. I think that is sad. 

    I think all 21 year olds should have a legible signature and be able to read what someone writes if it's in cursive, I shouldn't have to dumb down and print so my child can understand me. He cannot understand cursive writing, it's like it's in another language. I keep writing in cursive though, hoping he learns the language.

    I have nice handwriting, my signature is the same, except when signing in stores. It's neat and legible, unless I'm journalling and I'm writing really quickly and trying to write too many thoughts at once.  Then it can get whacky. But there's something personal about how my emotion can change my handwriting and that is lost when typing. 

    Penmanship is important - shoot me. Both ways of expression can co-exist. We stop using part of our brain when we no longer find the written word to be important and something to do well.  (And my love for all things English language and cursive is probably why I write such long posts that are so annoying to some. I text the same way sometimes.  Sorry, not really.) :tongue:
    I enjoyed reading this, Nancy, thanks!

    You're in good company with cursive handwritten journals.  Many great writers in the past as well as today do the same.

    Seems I remember reading that John Steinbeck wrote all his book manuscripts with a no. 2 pencil on yellow legal pads... in cursive!

    And now he is dead
    Yes, but...


    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 12,230
    I am not a fan of the push to bring back cursive and penmanship.
    I'm 33, so that surely has something to do with it.
    On the other hand, I'm a pretty old-fashioned man of the land who believes the only true investments are in good soil and durable tools.  I'm also a huge literature and reading fellow, and my favorite works all came when penmanship was very important... so that lends itself to the nostalgia of penmanship.  
    Still, time moves forward and we have to look at the sensibility of things and I don't see any in focusing on penmanship.

    I have two major gripes.
    The first one is that cursive education is a mind numbing exercise in rote memory and repetition given at an age when children should be grappling with new ideas and building imaginative capacities. There's some compelling evidence that we teach children to read earlier than optimal, and I tend to believe it.  True or not, I don't think cursive handwriting is important enough to be taught until adolescence at the earliest, and by then the obsolescence and futility are too painfully obvious for anyone but the artistic souls who will find their way to it on their own anyways.

    The second gripe isn't just with cursive, but with the endeavor to make everyone's penmanship aesthetically pleasing.  
    It's a waste of time.  You can improve illegible handwriting into legibility, but you can never, ever teach someone like me make "pretty" handwriting.  It's exactly like singing, a crappy singer can work themselves to the bone to learn to sing in key, but they will never, ever turn themselves into a truly good singer.  It's a natural talent, and while it should be encouraged heartily where it's found, it should never be expected from everyone.  Legibility should be the standard, and no more.  Everyone should be taught to think, speak, and write in grammatically correct sentences.  Anything beyond that is a specialty to be chosen.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 12,230
    This discussion makes me think of my favorite sonnet.

    When I have fears that I may cease to be 
       Before my pen has gleaned my teeming brain, 
    Before high-pilèd books, in charactery,
       Hold like rich garners the full ripened grain; 
    When I behold, upon the night’s starred face, 
       Huge cloudy symbols of a high romance, 
    And think that I may never live to trace 
       Their shadows with the magic hand of chance; 
    And when I feel, fair creature of an hour, 
       That I shall never look upon thee more, 
    Never have relish in the faery power 
       Of unreflecting love—then on the shore 
    Of the wide world I stand alone, and think 
    Till love and fame to nothingness do sink.

    I've tried and failed to find the letter in which he talks about that first image, 'gleaning his teeming brain' in detail.  I seem to remember him describing it quite literally as a pot boiling over and he's trying to catch as much as he can.  I think of that and wonder what more a great and furious mind like his might have produced with a keyboard.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 19,983
    rgambs said:
    I am not a fan of the push to bring back cursive and penmanship.
    I'm 33, so that surely has something to do with it.
    On the other hand, I'm a pretty old-fashioned man of the land who believes the only true investments are in good soil and durable tools.  I'm also a huge literature and reading fellow, and my favorite works all came when penmanship was very important... so that lends itself to the nostalgia of penmanship.  
    Still, time moves forward and we have to look at the sensibility of things and I don't see any in focusing on penmanship.

    I have two major gripes.
    The first one is that cursive education is a mind numbing exercise in rote memory and repetition given at an age when children should be grappling with new ideas and building imaginative capacities. There's some compelling evidence that we teach children to read earlier than optimal, and I tend to believe it.  True or not, I don't think cursive handwriting is important enough to be taught until adolescence at the earliest, and by then the obsolescence and futility are too painfully obvious for anyone but the artistic souls who will find their way to it on their own anyways.

    The second gripe isn't just with cursive, but with the endeavor to make everyone's penmanship aesthetically pleasing.  
    It's a waste of time.  You can improve illegible handwriting into legibility, but you can never, ever teach someone like me make "pretty" handwriting.  It's exactly like singing, a crappy singer can work themselves to the bone to learn to sing in key, but they will never, ever turn themselves into a truly good singer.  It's a natural talent, and while it should be encouraged heartily where it's found, it should never be expected from everyone.  Legibility should be the standard, and no more.  Everyone should be taught to think, speak, and write in grammatically correct sentences.  Anything beyond that is a specialty to be chosen.
    I'm with you on your gripes!  And, try being a kid, and a lefty, and attempting to write cursive in pen :angry:

    By the way, good to see you back, gambo.
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,267
    There are still some professions that use cursive writing...

    Cursive writing should be taught.

    If people do not learn cursive writing, are we going to need to transcribe historical documents into the print form so they can read them?

    This just another example of people wanting technology to rule their lives.

    Not everything needs to be digital.

    1st they tried to do away with phonics now they want to away with cursive writing.

    How do you confuse a millennial?  Ask to read them to read cursive writing or drive a stick...lol...thankfully I can do both.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,534
    There are still some professions that use cursive writing...

    Cursive writing should be taught.

    If people do not learn cursive writing, are we going to need to transcribe historical documents into the print form so they can read them?

    This just another example of people wanting technology to rule their lives.

    Not everything needs to be digital.

    1st they tried to do away with phonics now they want to away with cursive writing.

    How do you confuse a millennial?  Ask to read them to read cursive writing or drive a stick...lol...thankfully I can do both.
    Haha!  No kidding!

    Or ask  them to:
    -Start a fire with one match or wet wood.
    -Sharpen a knife.
    -Treat an injured person for shock or make a tourniquet.
    -Use a compass.
    -Build a shelter.
    -Find clean water in the wild.
    -Change a flat tire.
    -Set up a budget.
    -Parallel park.
    -Know how to shut off your water, gas and electricity.
    -Change a car's oil.
    -Mend clothing.

    To be fair, it's not just millennials who aren't familiar with many basic skills.






    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,267
    brianlux said:
    There are still some professions that use cursive writing...

    Cursive writing should be taught.

    If people do not learn cursive writing, are we going to need to transcribe historical documents into the print form so they can read them?

    This just another example of people wanting technology to rule their lives.

    Not everything needs to be digital.

    1st they tried to do away with phonics now they want to away with cursive writing.

    How do you confuse a millennial?  Ask to read them to read cursive writing or drive a stick...lol...thankfully I can do both.
    Haha!  No kidding!

    Or ask  them to:
    -Start a fire with one match or wet wood.
    -Sharpen a knife.
    -Treat an injured person for shock or make a tourniquet.
    -Use a compass.
    -Build a shelter.
    -Find clean water in the wild.
    -Change a flat tire.
    -Set up a budget.
    -Parallel park.
    -Know how to shut off your water, gas and electricity.
    -Change a car's oil.
    -Mend clothing.

    To be fair, it's not just millennials who aren't familiar with many basic skills.






    Excellent list. 

    We can add reading a map.  I remember many a family vacation with Mom and Dad, and Dad driving with the map on his lap...lol...Even 40 years ago there was distracted driving...never an accident though.

    You are right.  People are losing basic skills.  And that is sad.  I am confident I could build a fire, make suitable shelter and if there is water nearby catch my dinner...all thanks to my Dad.
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 19,983
    Being able to read handwriting isn't the same as being able to do it yourself.

    (and I'm not sure I'd rank cursive writing on any level near basic survival skills!) 
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,534
    hedonist said:
    Being able to read handwriting isn't the same as being able to do it yourself.

    (and I'm not sure I'd rank cursive writing on any level near basic survival skills!) 
    Hypothetical situation:  You're in danger and locked in a cage.  A person you know who can save you walks by the cage and you slip them a note.  Turns out that person can only read cursive.  Now you've had it!

    OK, maybe a bit of a stretch?  :lol: 
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,767
    Why all this idiotic millennial hatred or shaming?? WTF?
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 12,230
    edited May 6
    There are still some professions that use cursive writing...

    Cursive writing should be taught.

    If people do not learn cursive writing, are we going to need to transcribe historical documents into the print form so they can read them?

    This just another example of people wanting technology to rule their lives.

    Not everything needs to be digital.

    1st they tried to do away with phonics now they want to away with cursive writing.

    How do you confuse a millennial?  Ask to read them to read cursive writing or drive a stick...lol...thankfully I can do both.
    Umm, you don't have to learn to write in cursive to read it.
    Millennials can absolutely read cursive lol
    I was just told this weekend by a primary teacher that phonetic reading is the only endorsed method, rote memorization is a no-no.

    You mostly get your information from your own head, don't you? lol
    Post edited by rgambs on
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,250
    PJ_Soul said:
    Why all this idiotic millennial hatred or shaming?? WTF?
    annoys the hell out of me. it's the previous generation's job to teach the next. it's not like the baby boomers or gen x'ers taught themselves how to write cursive or start a fire. 

    every generation seems to have this pervasive attitude that the next batch of young whipper snappers are useless and lazy. it was the same with mine, it was most likely the same for my parents, etc. all because technology started to advance at such a rate that things are done differently than the generation prior. I see memes about asking a millennial how to use a rotary phone, and all the laughter that follows. how about the laughter from the millennial towards us having to spend 5 minutes dialing a phone?

    yes, there are some issues with millennial (primarily with lack of independence), but that falls squarely in the lap of their parents and how they were raised. 
    Headstones and Watchmen Fan Boy
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 15,041
    rgambs said:
    I am not a fan of the push to bring back cursive and penmanship.
    I'm 33, so that surely has something to do with it.
    On the other hand, I'm a pretty old-fashioned man of the land who believes the only true investments are in good soil and durable tools.  I'm also a huge literature and reading fellow, and my favorite works all came when penmanship was very important... so that lends itself to the nostalgia of penmanship.  
    Still, time moves forward and we have to look at the sensibility of things and I don't see any in focusing on penmanship.

    I have two major gripes.
    The first one is that cursive education is a mind numbing exercise in rote memory and repetition given at an age when children should be grappling with new ideas and building imaginative capacities. There's some compelling evidence that we teach children to read earlier than optimal, and I tend to believe it.  True or not, I don't think cursive handwriting is important enough to be taught until adolescence at the earliest, and by then the obsolescence and futility are too painfully obvious for anyone but the artistic souls who will find their way to it on their own anyways.

    The second gripe isn't just with cursive, but with the endeavor to make everyone's penmanship aesthetically pleasing.  
    It's a waste of time.  You can improve illegible handwriting into legibility, but you can never, ever teach someone like me make "pretty" handwriting.  It's exactly like singing, a crappy singer can work themselves to the bone to learn to sing in key, but they will never, ever turn themselves into a truly good singer.  It's a natural talent, and while it should be encouraged heartily where it's found, it should never be expected from everyone.  Legibility should be the standard, and no more.  Everyone should be taught to think, speak, and write in grammatically correct sentences.  Anything beyond that is a specialty to be chosen.
    This bothers me way more than cursive handwriting ever will!  If I had a fucking penny for every time someone improperly used the word "of" instead of "have" (e.g. I could of been rich), I'd be the wealthiest mother fucker in the galaxy!
    Legibility is definitely a close second to proper grammar.  It's a shame I work with adults whose handwriting I can't read.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,250
    rgambs said:
    I am not a fan of the push to bring back cursive and penmanship.
    I'm 33, so that surely has something to do with it.
    On the other hand, I'm a pretty old-fashioned man of the land who believes the only true investments are in good soil and durable tools.  I'm also a huge literature and reading fellow, and my favorite works all came when penmanship was very important... so that lends itself to the nostalgia of penmanship.  
    Still, time moves forward and we have to look at the sensibility of things and I don't see any in focusing on penmanship.

    I have two major gripes.
    The first one is that cursive education is a mind numbing exercise in rote memory and repetition given at an age when children should be grappling with new ideas and building imaginative capacities. There's some compelling evidence that we teach children to read earlier than optimal, and I tend to believe it.  True or not, I don't think cursive handwriting is important enough to be taught until adolescence at the earliest, and by then the obsolescence and futility are too painfully obvious for anyone but the artistic souls who will find their way to it on their own anyways.

    The second gripe isn't just with cursive, but with the endeavor to make everyone's penmanship aesthetically pleasing.  
    It's a waste of time.  You can improve illegible handwriting into legibility, but you can never, ever teach someone like me make "pretty" handwriting.  It's exactly like singing, a crappy singer can work themselves to the bone to learn to sing in key, but they will never, ever turn themselves into a truly good singer.  It's a natural talent, and while it should be encouraged heartily where it's found, it should never be expected from everyone.  Legibility should be the standard, and no more.  Everyone should be taught to think, speak, and write in grammatically correct sentences.  Anything beyond that is a specialty to be chosen.
    This bothers me way more than cursive handwriting ever will!  If I had a fucking penny for every time someone improperly used the word "of" instead of "have" (e.g. I could of been rich), I'd be the wealthiest mother fucker in the galaxy!
    Legibility is definitely a close second to proper grammar.  It's a shame I work with adults whose handwriting I can't read.
    it really does amaze me how grammatically terrible a good portion of the population is. 
    Headstones and Watchmen Fan Boy
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,267
    rgambs said:
    There are still some professions that use cursive writing...

    Cursive writing should be taught.

    If people do not learn cursive writing, are we going to need to transcribe historical documents into the print form so they can read them?

    This just another example of people wanting technology to rule their lives.

    Not everything needs to be digital.

    1st they tried to do away with phonics now they want to away with cursive writing.

    How do you confuse a millennial?  Ask to read them to read cursive writing or drive a stick...lol...thankfully I can do both.
    Umm, you don't have to learn to write in cursive to read it.
    Millennials can absolutely read cursive lol
    I was just told this weekend by a primary teacher that phonetic reading is the only endorsed method, rote memorization is a no-no.

    You mostly get your information from your own head, don't you? lol
    Some professional still use cursive... as every lawyer I have needed writes in cursive.  Nothing digital there.  Most Dr. I have had have used cursive.  The last time I was in the hospital the dr. and nurses were writing in cursive...
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 12,230
    rgambs said:
    There are still some professions that use cursive writing...

    Cursive writing should be taught.

    If people do not learn cursive writing, are we going to need to transcribe historical documents into the print form so they can read them?

    This just another example of people wanting technology to rule their lives.

    Not everything needs to be digital.

    1st they tried to do away with phonics now they want to away with cursive writing.

    How do you confuse a millennial?  Ask to read them to read cursive writing or drive a stick...lol...thankfully I can do both.
    Umm, you don't have to learn to write in cursive to read it.
    Millennials can absolutely read cursive lol
    I was just told this weekend by a primary teacher that phonetic reading is the only endorsed method, rote memorization is a no-no.

    You mostly get your information from your own head, don't you? lol
    Some professional still use cursive... as every lawyer I have needed writes in cursive.  Nothing digital there.  Most Dr. I have had have used cursive.  The last time I was in the hospital the dr. and nurses were writing in cursive...

    Really?  You've been blessed with good health then I'm guessing?
    Most doctors don't write much at all anymore, there is no reason to write something down only to have to enter it digitally later. Much more efficient to work through a laptop.  

    That's off-point anyways, just because a few old-timers in a few careers still cling to cursive, there's no reason they NEED cursive at all, which makes countless hours drilling it into kids a collosal waste of time in a world that moves far faster than it did when that was the standard.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,250
    rgambs said:
    rgambs said:
    There are still some professions that use cursive writing...

    Cursive writing should be taught.

    If people do not learn cursive writing, are we going to need to transcribe historical documents into the print form so they can read them?

    This just another example of people wanting technology to rule their lives.

    Not everything needs to be digital.

    1st they tried to do away with phonics now they want to away with cursive writing.

    How do you confuse a millennial?  Ask to read them to read cursive writing or drive a stick...lol...thankfully I can do both.
    Umm, you don't have to learn to write in cursive to read it.
    Millennials can absolutely read cursive lol
    I was just told this weekend by a primary teacher that phonetic reading is the only endorsed method, rote memorization is a no-no.

    You mostly get your information from your own head, don't you? lol
    Some professional still use cursive... as every lawyer I have needed writes in cursive.  Nothing digital there.  Most Dr. I have had have used cursive.  The last time I was in the hospital the dr. and nurses were writing in cursive...

    Really?  You've been blessed with good health then I'm guessing?
    Most doctors don't write much at all anymore, there is no reason to write something down only to have to enter it digitally later. Much more efficient to work through a laptop.  

    That's off-point anyways, just because a few old-timers in a few careers still cling to cursive, there's no reason they NEED cursive at all, which makes countless hours drilling it into kids a collosal waste of time in a world that moves far faster than it did when that was the standard.
    yeah, my doc has been printing my scripts for years. I can't remember the last time I saw a written one. 
    Headstones and Watchmen Fan Boy
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,767
    edited May 6
    Doctors can't print?? Some of you are acting like using cursive is the only way to get letters onto paper with a pen.... 
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • LizardLizard So CalPosts: 11,945
    I think my cursive is pretty nice looking.
    However, it can look different from day to day...or even hour.  

    c'est la vie
    Is it over yet? #ITMFA
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,250
    edited May 6
    PJ_Soul said:
    Doctors can't print?? Some of you are acting like using cursive is the only way to get letters onto paper with a pen.... 
    huh? no one is acting like that at all. of course they can. but IN MY EXPERIENCE, when doc's used to write Rx's, they actually wrote in cursive. 
    Headstones and Watchmen Fan Boy
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,267
    PJ_Soul said:
    Why all this idiotic millennial hatred or shaming?? WTF?
    Relax.  It is called jokes...jeesh
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,534
    PJ_Soul said:
    Why all this idiotic millennial hatred or shaming?? WTF?
    Because boomers are the best and we changed the world and everyone else SUCKS!

    Oh, alright... I'll concede your point.  Truth is, "We're all bozos on the bus".  :lol: 

    OK, but seriously, to me it's not a clear cut generational thing, it's more a continuum that has taken place over the entire era that began with the industrial revolution.  During that time, people in developed countries have gradually and continually been losing the ability to perform basic skills with decreasing efficiency and fewer aesthetically pleasing results.  This, I truly believe.
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,267
    brianlux said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Why all this idiotic millennial hatred or shaming?? WTF?
    Because boomers are the best and we changed the world and everyone else SUCKS!

    Oh, alright... I'll concede your point.  Truth is, "We're all bozos on the bus".  :lol: 

    OK, but seriously, to me it's not a clear cut generational thing, it's more a continuum that has taken place over the entire era that began with the industrial revolution.  During that time, people in developed countries have gradually and continually been losing the ability to perform basic skills with decreasing efficiency and fewer aesthetically pleasing results.  This, I truly believe.
    You’re right we are getting further and further away from knowing basic skills.  I will also add that people are becoming way too dependent on the government for their existence. For fuck sake’s people are wanting universal basic income because they somehow think that there will be no jobs in five years.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,534
    edited May 7
    brianlux said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Why all this idiotic millennial hatred or shaming?? WTF?
    Because boomers are the best and we changed the world and everyone else SUCKS!

    Oh, alright... I'll concede your point.  Truth is, "We're all bozos on the bus".  :lol: 

    OK, but seriously, to me it's not a clear cut generational thing, it's more a continuum that has taken place over the entire era that began with the industrial revolution.  During that time, people in developed countries have gradually and continually been losing the ability to perform basic skills with decreasing efficiency and fewer aesthetically pleasing results.  This, I truly believe.
    You’re right we are getting further and further away from knowing basic skills.  I will also add that people are becoming way too dependent on the government for their existence. For fuck sake’s people are wanting universal basic income because they somehow think that there will be no jobs in five years.
    I agree, but even more, I'd say people are becoming WAY to dependent on their electronics.  Almost everything is run by a computer of some sort and when the power goes down many people are basically helpless, like they themselves have been unplugged.  I don't think this is going to turn out well. And that means me too.  Without power, I cannot do the on-line portion of my book business.
    "Hate your job, love your stuff
    If you think that's living, you are
    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong"
    -Juliana Hatfield
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.







  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,767
    edited May 7
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Why all this idiotic millennial hatred or shaming?? WTF?
    Because boomers are the best and we changed the world and everyone else SUCKS!

    Oh, alright... I'll concede your point.  Truth is, "We're all bozos on the bus".  :lol: 

    OK, but seriously, to me it's not a clear cut generational thing, it's more a continuum that has taken place over the entire era that began with the industrial revolution.  During that time, people in developed countries have gradually and continually been losing the ability to perform basic skills with decreasing efficiency and fewer aesthetically pleasing results.  This, I truly believe.
    You’re right we are getting further and further away from knowing basic skills.  I will also add that people are becoming way too dependent on the government for their existence. For fuck sake’s people are wanting universal basic income because they somehow think that there will be no jobs in five years.
    I agree, but even more, I'd say people are becoming WAY to dependent on their electronics.  Almost everything is run by a computer of some sort and when the power goes down many people are basically helpless, like they themselves have been unplugged.  I don't think this is going to turn out well. And that means me too.  Without power, I cannot do the on-line portion of my book business.
    I believe that people will actually adjust pretty quickly if the power actually goes out for an extended period of time (or indefinitely!). When everyone knows the power is going to come back on in hours or a couple of days, it really sucks and they are just waiting anxiously. But if some cataclysmic happens so that power is actually gone for good or more than a week or something, I believe that people are pretty damned adaptable when push comes to shove. Obviously in this scenario we'd all be dealing with the breakdown of society in general, because the financial system would collapse... But I don't think people would be "lost" for very long because they can't watch TV or surf the web or use electric lights. They'd go into survival mode pretty quick for the most part IMO, rather than curling into a ball. Everything would change.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Sign In or Register to comment.