The Evolution of Handwriting

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

I wouldn't have a moral issue to it, but I don't know if I could eat a human to survive. I'd obviously have to be put into that situation to truly know the answer to that. 

I'd eat anything edible to survive. I just wouldn't kill a person to make that happen.

brianlux

From cursive hand writing to cannibalism.  I think we've outdone ourselves here, haha!

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

From cursive hand writing to cannibalism.  I think we've outdone ourselves here, haha!

jeffbr

brianlux said:

From cursive hand writing to cannibalism.  I think we've outdone ourselves here, haha!

How about another leap? Human composting! My state's legislature just passed a human composting bill, and will make us the first state to allow that as an alternative to burial or cremation. Instead of dying and being a burden on the environment and nature, humans can feed it. We can have a positive impact after years of our negative impact. I know that's the option I'll be choosing. 

Washington Will Likely Be First State to Allow ‘Human Composting’ as a Burial Method

PJ_Soul

jeffbr said:

brianlux said:

From cursive hand writing to cannibalism.  I think we've outdone ourselves here, haha!

How about another leap? Human composting! My state's legislature just passed a human composting bill, and will make us the first state to allow that as an alternative to burial or cremation. Instead of dying and being a burden on the environment and nature, humans can feed it. We can have a positive impact after years of our negative impact. I know that's the option I'll be choosing. 

Washington Will Likely Be First State to Allow ‘Human Composting’ as a Burial Method

I don't understand why this is even controversial, assuming everyone is doing it in safe burial sites (we don't want rotting people in the ground water, lol). How this isn't already legal in all states or across Canada is beyond me.

Also, I feel like people should be free to scatter ashes wherever the hell they like, as long as it's not on someone else's private property.

brianlux

jeffbr said:

brianlux said:

From cursive hand writing to cannibalism.  I think we've outdone ourselves here, haha!

How about another leap? Human composting! My state's legislature just passed a human composting bill, and will make us the first state to allow that as an alternative to burial or cremation. Instead of dying and being a burden on the environment and nature, humans can feed it. We can have a positive impact after years of our negative impact. I know that's the option I'll be choosing. 

Washington Will Likely Be First State to Allow ‘Human Composting’ as a Burial Method

I love it!  There was another thread (either her or on the Hoffman forums) about this and someone mentioned Bio Urns and Tree Pod burials where you become food for a tree.  The problem with that for me is what if a relative or loved one tends your tree and they don't have a green thumb and the tree dies.  Think of the possible guilt and sorrow!  Compost, on the other hand will feed literally billions of microbes and can become food for a whole garden or soil in a forest.  I love the idea!

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

brianlux said:

From cursive hand writing to cannibalism.  I think we've outdone ourselves here, haha!

How about another leap? Human composting! My state's legislature just passed a human composting bill, and will make us the first state to allow that as an alternative to burial or cremation. Instead of dying and being a burden on the environment and nature, humans can feed it. We can have a positive impact after years of our negative impact. I know that's the option I'll be choosing. 

Washington Will Likely Be First State to Allow ‘Human Composting’ as a Burial Method

I don't understand why this is even controversial, assuming everyone is doing it in safe burial sites (we don't want rotting people in the ground water, lol). How this isn't already legal in all states or across Canada is beyond me.

Also, I feel like people should be free to scatter ashes wherever the hell they like, as long as it's not on someone else's private property.

Agreed!

HughFreakingDillon

when I die, i want to be a tree. 

"if you were a tree, what tree would you be?" will now be a question to be asked in a will. 

Meltdown99

Damn...now we are on to cannibalism.  Nope, I draw the line at eating humans...jeesh gotta have some boundaries.  Do not underestimate people's ability to survive under difficult circumstances...

oftenreading

jeffbr said:

brianlux said:

From cursive hand writing to cannibalism.  I think we've outdone ourselves here, haha!

How about another leap? Human composting! My state's legislature just passed a human composting bill, and will make us the first state to allow that as an alternative to burial or cremation. Instead of dying and being a burden on the environment and nature, humans can feed it. We can have a positive impact after years of our negative impact. I know that's the option I'll be choosing. 

Washington Will Likely Be First State to Allow ‘Human Composting’ as a Burial Method

I read an article in the NYT about this a few weeks back. To me, it sounds like a fine idea, but when the reporter asked people how they felt about the hypothetical scenario of a loved one being composted, almost everyone was pretty skeeved out. Most people said they wanted nothing to do with soil made from their loved one. Some people who thought it might be okay to have the compost to plant a tree in, for instance, said it would have to be a non-fruit bearing tree, because they couldn't stomach the idea of having fruit grown from their loved one's remains. Almost no-one was agreeable to having it used for public areas, etc. It seems this may be a harder sell than I had first thought. 

oftenreading

Personally, in my will I have opted for green burial, which means that I would be buried without any embalming in a compostable cloth bag or thin wooden box, and allowed to compost that way. Takes more space than human composting, though. 

brianlux

Meltdown99 said:

Damn...now we are on to cannibalism.  Nope, I draw the line at eating humans...jeesh gotta have some boundaries.  Do not underestimate people's ability to survive under difficult circumstances...

Yeah, it sounds absolutely disgusting and some of the Donner (and other families- it was called "Donner Party" but there were several families), some of them starved to death because the could not eat human flesh.  In other cases, family member ate family members.  I guess it depends on how each individual reacts under those extreme circumstances.  I don't think I would eat human flesh, but who knows, maybe I would.  I'm sure as hell not anxious to find out!

brianlux

oftenreading said:

Personally, in my will I have opted for green burial, which means that I would be buried without any embalming in a compostable cloth bag or thin wooden box, and allowed to compost that way. Takes more space than human composting, though. 

A fine way to go.

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Damn...now we are on to cannibalism.  Nope, I draw the line at eating humans...jeesh gotta have some boundaries.  Do not underestimate people's ability to survive under difficult circumstances...

Yeah, it sounds absolutely disgusting and some of the Donner (and other families- it was called "Donner Party" but there were several families), some of them starved to death because the could not eat human flesh.  In other cases, family member ate family members.  I guess it depends on how each individual reacts under those extreme circumstances.  I don't think I would eat human flesh, but who knows, maybe I would.  I'm sure as hell not anxious to find out!

To me it really is disgusting, no chance of them savages getting to me, Canada is a great big country with lots of places where few people want to live...I'll head there.

brianlux

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Damn...now we are on to cannibalism.  Nope, I draw the line at eating humans...jeesh gotta have some boundaries.  Do not underestimate people's ability to survive under difficult circumstances...

Yeah, it sounds absolutely disgusting and some of the Donner (and other families- it was called "Donner Party" but there were several families), some of them starved to death because the could not eat human flesh.  In other cases, family member ate family members.  I guess it depends on how each individual reacts under those extreme circumstances.  I don't think I would eat human flesh, but who knows, maybe I would.  I'm sure as hell not anxious to find out!

To me it really is disgusting, no chance of them savages getting to me, Canada is a great big country with lots of places where few people want to live...I'll head there.

What if you were ship wrecked and floating on a raft and one of the people with you died and you had to eat him or her or die?  No getting north to Canada in this scenario!

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Damn...now we are on to cannibalism.  Nope, I draw the line at eating humans...jeesh gotta have some boundaries.  Do not underestimate people's ability to survive under difficult circumstances...

Yeah, it sounds absolutely disgusting and some of the Donner (and other families- it was called "Donner Party" but there were several families), some of them starved to death because the could not eat human flesh.  In other cases, family member ate family members.  I guess it depends on how each individual reacts under those extreme circumstances.  I don't think I would eat human flesh, but who knows, maybe I would.  I'm sure as hell not anxious to find out!

More than half of them were actually younger than 18. Lots of kids. I suspect the fact that some died because they wouldn't eat people was mostly about religious fervour or lack thereof (I'm pretty sure they were all Christians). I believe the more adherent ones refused to do it, while the less adherent has less of a problem with it. I read that two Native guides who were with the small party that went for help (less than half of them actually made it) abandoned the group because they were so disgusted by the fact that they were eating human meat - they refused to eat it - and also because they were scared the white people would kill them for the meat. But then a couple days later the group found these two again, almost dead from starvation on the trail, and they straight up killed the Natives for the food! Not cool! Those were the only two people who were actually killed for food in the whole Donner party ordeal. Typical. That said, that is probably what allowed those few who actually completed the trek to make it out and trigger the rescue missions that followed.

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Damn...now we are on to cannibalism.  Nope, I draw the line at eating humans...jeesh gotta have some boundaries.  Do not underestimate people's ability to survive under difficult circumstances...

Yeah, it sounds absolutely disgusting and some of the Donner (and other families- it was called "Donner Party" but there were several families), some of them starved to death because the could not eat human flesh.  In other cases, family member ate family members.  I guess it depends on how each individual reacts under those extreme circumstances.  I don't think I would eat human flesh, but who knows, maybe I would.  I'm sure as hell not anxious to find out!

More than half of them were actually younger than 18. Lots of kids. I suspect the fact that some died because they wouldn't eat people was mostly about religious fervour or lack thereof (I'm pretty sure they were all Christians). I believe the more adherent ones refused to do it, while the less adherent has less of a problem with it. I read that two Native guide who was with the small party that went for help (less than half of them actually made it) abandoned the group because they were so disgusted by the fact that they were eating human meat - they refused to eat it - and also because they were scared the white people would kill them for the meat. But then a couple days later the group found these two again, almost dead from starvation on the trail, and they straight up killed the Natives for the food! Not cool! Those were the only two people who were actually killed for food in the whole Donner party ordeal. Typical. That said, that is probably what allowed those few who actually completed the trek to make it out and trigger the rescue missions that followed.

Good points!  I read the same thing in Rarick's Desperate Passage.  The author hinted at injustice toward Native Americans but went a bit weak on the subject- one of my few disappointments with that book.

njnancy

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Damn...now we are on to cannibalism.  Nope, I draw the line at eating humans...jeesh gotta have some boundaries.  Do not underestimate people's ability to survive under difficult circumstances...

Yeah, it sounds absolutely disgusting and some of the Donner (and other families- it was called "Donner Party" but there were several families), some of them starved to death because the could not eat human flesh.  In other cases, family member ate family members.  I guess it depends on how each individual reacts under those extreme circumstances.  I don't think I would eat human flesh, but who knows, maybe I would.  I'm sure as hell not anxious to find out!

More than half of them were actually younger than 18. Lots of kids. I suspect the fact that some died because they wouldn't eat people was mostly about religious fervour or lack thereof (I'm pretty sure they were all Christians). I believe the more adherent ones refused to do it, while the less adherent has less of a problem with it. I read that two Native guide who was with the small party that went for help (less than half of them actually made it) abandoned the group because they were so disgusted by the fact that they were eating human meat - they refused to eat it - and also because they were scared the white people would kill them for the meat. But then a couple days later the group found these two again, almost dead from starvation on the trail, and they straight up killed the Natives for the food! Not cool! Those were the only two people who were actually killed for food in the whole Donner party ordeal. Typical. That said, that is probably what allowed those few who actually completed the trek to make it out and trigger the rescue missions that followed.

Good points!  I read the same thing in Rarick's Desperate Passage.  The author hinted at injustice toward Native Americans but went a bit weak on the subject- one of my few disappointments with that book.

Once the decision is made to eat another human, you have crossed a certain line and that encompasses more than the cannibalism. Trust in others is gone. Your personal safety is gone because you are not a fellow traveler anymore, you are a potential food source, esp. if you are well and not 'diseased', more to go around. Some people became gluttons while others adhered to the strict rules made when the horrible decision was made. Some people went insane and were found doing unimaginable things. Some may have survived the Winter, but no one came out of the situation okay. There were one or two people who refused to cannibalize who survived. 

In the instance of the Donner Party, the idea of having a member of my family, especially a child, be dinner would be something that I would not be able to psychologically withstand. The idea or image of people, possibly fellow family members, chowing down on my kid would quite literally break my brain. I'd rather die (and wind up eaten) but at least I wouldn't have to experience human nature at its cruelest and most savage. Sometimes there are situations that are not worth surviving. What do you have to live for when your family has been eaten. One could say living through that makes someone psychologically strong, but I think it is quite the opposite. In the way that it went down with the Donner Party, there was a greed, callousness and disregard for human life that became apparent the moment that line was crossed. There is survival and there is depravity. Depravity over ruled those who were only willing to do the minimum needed to survive. 

I believe that all members of the Donner Party, who were literate, wrote in cursive. A very flowery and Old English sort of cursive, which we know due to the diaries that some kept and are now part of history. It is a shame that people would need to have English translated to English in order to know what they said.

Now, with the plane that crashed, there was not the depravity, due to more provisions, the possibility of rescue and the character of most of the members of the group.The fact that they were team mates seemed to play into the 'only for reason of survival' mentality.  People who didn't cannibalize survived. I don't believe they ever disclosed who engaged and who did not.

Just as I will disclose that I would rather parts of my brain that are used in the creation and interpretation of the fine arts remain alive and not die because we begin to lose interest in forms of language, such as cursive. So many people mourned the  loss of great French Gothic art & vowed to rebuild so as not to lose a long gone art form, but are willing to lose an entire art form and language in one fell swoop. 

 Fine arts are a necessary part of a diversified culture, as much as being technologically advanced. What if the vote counter in the Donner Party did not know how to read cursive and got the vote wrong? HIstory may have been changed. But we would not know how because of those damn cursive diaries.

PJ_Soul

I personally don't think that eating dead people to avoid starvation is cruel in the slightest, and not even really savage. Both terms should be used only for those who indeed want to and/or do kill others for the food. But I would expect people not to chow down on one's family member in front of them. Cannibals must maintain standards too!

As for how such an experience might affect someone psychologically... that would for sure vary wildly depending on each individual's disposition and personal psychological experience under the same circumstances, and I would guess that for the most part, how one reacts to it would not really be dependent on whether or not they are "people of character".

njnancy

PJ_Soul said:

I personally don't think that eating dead people to avoid starvation is cruel in the slightest, and not even really savage. Both terms should be used only for those who indeed want to and/or do kill others for the food. But I would expect people not to chow down on one's family member in front of them. Cannibals must maintain standards too!

As for how such an experience might affect someone psychologically... that would for sure vary wildly depending on each individual's disposition and personal psychological experience under the same circumstances, and I would guess that for the most part, how one reacts to it would not really be dependent on whether or not they are "people of character".

That only applies to people on sport's teams.

Now working cursive into the Donner Party in two different ways - I can only attribute that dedication to thread integrity to my fine character   arts developed brain. 

PJ_Soul

njnancy said:

PJ_Soul said:

I personally don't think that eating dead people to avoid starvation is cruel in the slightest, and not even really savage. Both terms should be used only for those who indeed want to and/or do kill others for the food. But I would expect people not to chow down on one's family member in front of them. Cannibals must maintain standards too!

As for how such an experience might affect someone psychologically... that would for sure vary wildly depending on each individual's disposition and personal psychological experience under the same circumstances, and I would guess that for the most part, how one reacts to it would not really be dependent on whether or not they are "people of character".

That only applies to people on sport's teams.

Sorry Nancy, I don't understand what you mean here!