The Evolution of Handwriting

1235

Comments

  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 20,132
    Random cards are the best and among my most cherished.  It matters not to me if it's bought or looks like something a three-year-old would make.  The intent and warm energy are there, regardless of the conduit (and for that, I'm thankful).

    Oh, and circling back to the cannibalism issue, while I've never had a hankering for it, I hope I'd do what's necessary to survive.  Long-term hunger can do a number on the mind.  I remember my dad telling me when he was fighting in WWII, starving and hunkered in a foxhole for lengths of time, he and his mission partner would describe in detail the most delectable meals.  Probably played a huge part in his - and now my - need to not waste food, or anything in general.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
    edited May 13
    PJ_Soul said:
    Go to $$$$ store...pay a buck for your card.
    Those are garbage. Why would anyone want one of those?
    If someone sends me a greeting card, I appreciate the gesture...I was raised to appreciate small gestures...but that comes from having grandparents growing up in the depression and having parents who saw sacrifices of Mom and Dad during WW2. 
    Oh yes, you're very special to appreciate small gestures, lol, just like millions or billions of other people, including me. My point was absolutely not that the recipient wouldn't appreciate the card. Only an asshole doesn't appreciate getting a card. My point was why would you spend even $1 on a crappy low quality card, when making your own would be so much more special, and still cheaper?
    And my overall point was stated at the beginning - the greeting card industry RIPS PEOPLE OFF.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,501
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Go to $$$$ store...pay a buck for your card.
    Those are garbage. Why would anyone want one of those?
    If someone sends me a greeting card, I appreciate the gesture...I was raised to appreciate small gestures...but that comes from having grandparents growing up in the depression and having parents who saw sacrifices of Mom and Dad during WW2. 
    Oh yes, you're very special to appreciate small gestures, lol, just like millions or billions of other people, including me. My point was absolutely not that the recipient wouldn't appreciate the card. Only an asshole doesn't appreciate getting a card. My point was why would you spend even $1 on a crappy low quality card, when making your own would be so much more special, and still cheaper?
    And my overall point was stated at the beginning - the greeting card industry RIPS PEOPLE OFF.
    Honestly, knowing my artistic abilities, it’s better for everybody if i just purchase cards. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
    edited May 13
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Go to $$$$ store...pay a buck for your card.
    Those are garbage. Why would anyone want one of those?
    If someone sends me a greeting card, I appreciate the gesture...I was raised to appreciate small gestures...but that comes from having grandparents growing up in the depression and having parents who saw sacrifices of Mom and Dad during WW2. 
    Oh yes, you're very special to appreciate small gestures, lol, just like millions or billions of other people, including me. My point was absolutely not that the recipient wouldn't appreciate the card. Only an asshole doesn't appreciate getting a card. My point was why would you spend even $1 on a crappy low quality card, when making your own would be so much more special, and still cheaper?
    And my overall point was stated at the beginning - the greeting card industry RIPS PEOPLE OFF.
    Honestly, knowing my artistic abilities, it’s better for everybody if i just purchase cards. 
    I think that would make homemade cards even better, haha! Laughing at a horribly made homemade card seems like so much more fun, lol. ;)
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,720
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Go to $$$$ store...pay a buck for your card.
    Those are garbage. Why would anyone want one of those?
    If someone sends me a greeting card, I appreciate the gesture...I was raised to appreciate small gestures...but that comes from having grandparents growing up in the depression and having parents who saw sacrifices of Mom and Dad during WW2. 
    Oh yes, you're very special to appreciate small gestures, lol, just like millions or billions of other people, including me. My point was absolutely not that the recipient wouldn't appreciate the card. Only an asshole doesn't appreciate getting a card. My point was why would you spend even $1 on a crappy low quality card, when making your own would be so much more special, and still cheaper?
    And my overall point was stated at the beginning - the greeting card industry RIPS PEOPLE OFF.
    well, not really. if people are willing to pay it, they're not really getting ripped off. it's not a necessity of life. like has been said, they can easily make one or get a cheaper option at the dollar store. 

    while i have made homemade cards in the past, one of the small pleasures I get in life is going to the greeting card aisle, reading and laughing at the cards and choosing the perfect one for the person I'm buying it for. it's no different than buying a gift that fits the person. and my family tends to put a lot of pressure on me since I always tend to find the funniest card that fits the person. it's actually a lot of fun. yeah, $7.99 for that seems a bit much, but if it brings pleasure to me and those around me then it's worth it.

    and what's funny is that my wife I have this policy of not buying expensive greeting cards for each other, as she hates how much they cost as well. she shops exclusively at the dollar store for all cards. 
    12/29/19
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
    People who choose to pay for something most definitely can still be getting ripped off. Very easily. Especially with greeting cards, since most people are made to feel that it's rude in certain situations to NOT buy a nice greeting card.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,720
    "being ripped off" is entirely subjective, though. if the person is aware of the cost for something to be produced is far lower than the cost to purchase it, and is still willing to do so, they aren't getting ripped off. an outsider's opinion of what a person is willing to pay for is irrelevant. 
    12/29/19
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
    edited May 14
    "being ripped off" is entirely subjective, though. if the person is aware of the cost for something to be produced is far lower than the cost to purchase it, and is still willing to do so, they aren't getting ripped off. an outsider's opinion of what a person is willing to pay for is irrelevant. 
    Yes, well obviously this is my opinion. IMO, it's a rip off, and IMO, people can still be ripped off even when they choose to buy something. When someone feels that they have to buy something and spend money that they don't want to spend, they can be getting ripped off by industries that are charging way too much, with insane, ridiculous markups that take advantage of people's emotions, 100%.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 20,510
    PJ_Soul said:
    People who choose to pay for something most definitely can still be getting ripped off. Very easily. Especially with greeting cards, since most people are made to feel that it's rude in certain situations to NOT buy a nice greeting card.
    To me it isn’t rude but looks awfully cheap. IMO
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
    edited May 14
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    People who choose to pay for something most definitely can still be getting ripped off. Very easily. Especially with greeting cards, since most people are made to feel that it's rude in certain situations to NOT buy a nice greeting card.
    To me it isn’t rude but looks awfully cheap. IMO
    Either/or. Social pressures/expectations have a strong influence on people.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 20,132
    This is hilarious!  It's just a fucking card, sent with good will and hopefully received as such.  And I love when someone sends me one that reminded them of me.

    I've never been concerned with the quality or price of a card.  That's icing to me.  The cake is within.

    PS - fuck pressures and expectations.  At some point, we have to let that shit go.

  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,720
    hedonist said:
    This is hilarious!  It's just a fucking card, sent with good will and hopefully received as such.  And I love when someone sends me one that reminded them of me.

    I've never been concerned with the quality or price of a card.  That's icing to me.  The cake is within.

    PS - fuck pressures and expectations.  At some point, we have to let that shit go.

    I was going to say the same thing. we can't let pressures like that (that basically amount to meaninglessness) dictate our financial or social choices. 
    12/29/19
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
    edited May 14
    hedonist said:
    This is hilarious!  It's just a fucking card, sent with good will and hopefully received as such.  And I love when someone sends me one that reminded them of me.

    I've never been concerned with the quality or price of a card.  That's icing to me.  The cake is within.

    PS - fuck pressures and expectations.  At some point, we have to let that shit go.

    For the record, I'm happy to receive any card, because of course it's the thought that counts as the recipient. I'm not a jerk, lol. I'm only speaking from the perspective of some buyers. The gift card industry is a racket. I'm sticking to that perspective, haha, and I'm not the only one who thinks so. I know people IRL who feel the same. I'm not even the one with the strong feelings about it, among those who agree. ;) But yeah, nobody is ever annoyed when they receive a card - that is not part of the argument!
    As for bowing to social pressures... I am better than most and not doing that. But in general, I think that is MUCH easier said than done for most people. Social expectations and pressures dictate a LOT of behaviour for a LOT of people. For the vast majority of people IMO.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • njnancynjnancy Northern New JerseyPosts: 4,960
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    People who choose to pay for something most definitely can still be getting ripped off. Very easily. Especially with greeting cards, since most people are made to feel that it's rude in certain situations to NOT buy a nice greeting card.
    To me it isn’t rude but looks awfully cheap. IMO
    Either/or. Social pressures/expectations have a strong influence on people.
    If I go into a card store in order to find a perfect card for someone because it gives me pleasure sending or giving it & the recipient will get pleasure from receiving it, then I'm not being ripped off. I am making a conscious decision to enter that store. I have my choice of type of card and price of card. I am not feeling pressure. It is an enjoyable experience. If I don't buy the card for the person, the world will not end. But the right card can have a strong emotional reaction between you and the recipient. I buy cards on random days more than on holidays, just because I'm thinking of someone. It is different than a text or a gif or comment on-line. 

    It's the same as saying someone going to Starbucks is getting ripped off because society says coffee is better there even though it is cheaper elsewhere, or you can make it at home. It's a choice. People who purchase organic goods, expensive cars, eco-friendly products,  name brand clothing, high end electronic and technological equipment could all be considered being ripped off by someone who doesn't value that choice. One could say that the price is worth the health value, environmental benefit or superior enjoyment of use from the product, but it could still be seen as a rip off by someone who finds those items to be ridiculous, unnecessary, peer driven and over priced.  

    If you don't value greeting cards, then buying one would be a rip-off to you. We all make purchasing decisions based upon our particular value system and what gives us the most enjoyment.

    Some of my most prized possessions are greeting cards that I have received. And on topic with the thread, when someone writes something personal in the card, it makes it even  more special. I've lost many family members so cards that I have saved from them are very dear to me. Being able to see their handwriting on the cards is like having a piece of them still alive. You cannot put a price on that for me. Someone else may throw out every card they receive as soon as they look at it.  Neither is a correct or incorrect reaction. Different strokes. 

    A good example is about a week ago, when my dog died. Several days later, I received a sympathy card from the vet where we had brought her body. We had only been there once before when my mom's dog had an infection, so this was completely unexpected. Actually, when my last dog died, the vet we used regularly who put her down didn't send us anything afterwards. And I didn't expect anything. The card had a very sweet sentiment and was on recycled parchment type paper which was very pretty. This could be cynically looked at as just an advertisement, but I was touched.

    Even more,  on the inside of the card,  they had pressed impressions of Chelsea's paw prints with her name underneath. :heart: There was no way they could have known but my son wanted her paw print to use for a tattoo but it was just not feasible for several reasons. The card was so special and brought both joy and tears. I think it was very kind of them, and to have Chelsea's paw prints is a gift. Though it may be their practice whenever this situation occurs, it does not take away from what it meant to us. This is the power of a personal message and a card. 

    I do agree with your argument in two instances, but I'm teary eyed after my last paragraph, so I'll 'save it for later'.  :heartbreak:
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
    edited May 14
    I think anyone paying that much of a markup on anything is being ripped off (and I don't think I need those making the purchases to feel like they are being ripped off to think this). I do not automatically think someone who is simply paying more at one place than at another is.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • njnancynjnancy Northern New JerseyPosts: 4,960
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think anyone paying that much of a markup on anything is being ripped off (and I don't think I need those making the purchases to feel like they are being ripped off to think this). I do not automatically think someone who is simply paying more at one place than at another is.
    I don't understand why you are so dismissive sometimes. You are a pleasure to have discussions with but when you take a stance sometimes, you refuse to think anyone who disagrees can possibly be making decisions on their own.

    Your statement is basically saying that anyone who thinks differently than you is brainwashed by the greeting card industry and isn't really thinking for themselves because, unlike you, we have not opened our minds wide enough to realize what societal pressures are forcing us to do. I reject that sort of thinking. I could accept your opinion as different than mine if you were not so insulting to my intelligence. I'm not being led about by the mind police and you are not more enlightened than me. We have a different opinion, we don't have different levels of consciousness. 

    So much for where I agree with you. So stubborn sometimes, Alli. Definitely a Taurus, for sure.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
    edited May 14
    njnancy said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think anyone paying that much of a markup on anything is being ripped off (and I don't think I need those making the purchases to feel like they are being ripped off to think this). I do not automatically think someone who is simply paying more at one place than at another is.
    I don't understand why you are so dismissive sometimes. You are a pleasure to have discussions with but when you take a stance sometimes, you refuse to think anyone who disagrees can possibly be making decisions on their own.

    Your statement is basically saying that anyone who thinks differently than you is brainwashed by the greeting card industry and isn't really thinking for themselves because, unlike you, we have not opened our minds wide enough to realize what societal pressures are forcing us to do. I reject that sort of thinking. I could accept your opinion as different than mine if you were not so insulting to my intelligence. I'm not being led about by the mind police and you are not more enlightened than me. We have a different opinion, we don't have different levels of consciousness. 

    So much for where I agree with you. So stubborn sometimes, Alli. Definitely a Taurus, for sure.
    I'm not being stubborn or dismissive. I'm just stating my own opinion about greeting cards being a rip off. I also never said that someone disagreeing isn't making decisions on their own - I'm actually not sure why you're saying that. Of course people are making decisions on their own - I don't see how that has anything to do with what I've said though!

    I am also absolutely NOT saying that anyone who thinks differently than me is brainwashed, and if that is how you've interpreted my perspective, I suppose I'm doing a bad job of expressing myself. And for the record, I buy greeting cards, lol. I do not think I am brainwashed! And your hyperbole in your post tells me that you are taking everything I said with MUCH more weight than it was intended. Finally, I never said I think everyone who buys greeting cards are doing so because of societal pressures. Those who don't want to buy them and buy them anyway are.

    I feel like the real confusion is simply coming from different ways of defining what a rip off is TBH (and also you've made some logical leaps from what I actually said to the meaning you got out of it).
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,501
    njnancy said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    People who choose to pay for something most definitely can still be getting ripped off. Very easily. Especially with greeting cards, since most people are made to feel that it's rude in certain situations to NOT buy a nice greeting card.
    To me it isn’t rude but looks awfully cheap. IMO
    Either/or. Social pressures/expectations have a strong influence on people.
    If I go into a card store in order to find a perfect card for someone because it gives me pleasure sending or giving it & the recipient will get pleasure from receiving it, then I'm not being ripped off. I am making a conscious decision to enter that store. I have my choice of type of card and price of card. I am not feeling pressure. It is an enjoyable experience. If I don't buy the card for the person, the world will not end. But the right card can have a strong emotional reaction between you and the recipient. I buy cards on random days more than on holidays, just because I'm thinking of someone. It is different than a text or a gif or comment on-line. 

    It's the same as saying someone going to Starbucks is getting ripped off because society says coffee is better there even though it is cheaper elsewhere, or you can make it at home. It's a choice. People who purchase organic goods, expensive cars, eco-friendly products,  name brand clothing, high end electronic and technological equipment could all be considered being ripped off by someone who doesn't value that choice. One could say that the price is worth the health value, environmental benefit or superior enjoyment of use from the product, but it could still be seen as a rip off by someone who finds those items to be ridiculous, unnecessary, peer driven and over priced.  

    If you don't value greeting cards, then buying one would be a rip-off to you. We all make purchasing decisions based upon our particular value system and what gives us the most enjoyment.

    Some of my most prized possessions are greeting cards that I have received. And on topic with the thread, when someone writes something personal in the card, it makes it even  more special. I've lost many family members so cards that I have saved from them are very dear to me. Being able to see their handwriting on the cards is like having a piece of them still alive. You cannot put a price on that for me. Someone else may throw out every card they receive as soon as they look at it.  Neither is a correct or incorrect reaction. Different strokes. 

    A good example is about a week ago, when my dog died. Several days later, I received a sympathy card from the vet where we had brought her body. We had only been there once before when my mom's dog had an infection, so this was completely unexpected. Actually, when my last dog died, the vet we used regularly who put her down didn't send us anything afterwards. And I didn't expect anything. The card had a very sweet sentiment and was on recycled parchment type paper which was very pretty. This could be cynically looked at as just an advertisement, but I was touched.

    Even more,  on the inside of the card,  they had pressed impressions of Chelsea's paw prints with her name underneath. :heart: There was no way they could have known but my son wanted her paw print to use for a tattoo but it was just not feasible for several reasons. The card was so special and brought both joy and tears. I think it was very kind of them, and to have Chelsea's paw prints is a gift. Though it may be their practice whenever this situation occurs, it does not take away from what it meant to us. This is the power of a personal message and a card. 

    I do agree with your argument in two instances, but I'm teary eyed after my last paragraph, so I'll 'save it for later'.  :heartbreak:
    The vet we used to see when my dog was alive made a practice of taking paw prints in plaster, for those dogs and cats that were euthanized or died in the clinic or animal hospital. When the plaster was dry, they painted it in a lovely way, sealed it, and put a ribbon on, and it became a Christmas tree ornament if you wanted to use it as such, or just a little memento. It meant a lot to receive it a few days later. 
     
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
    edited May 14
    I just lost my cat, and they offered me that paw print in plaster thing, and I turned it down because it cost $80, and I thought that was a huge rip off, even though I wanted it. I just reminded myself that I have photos of her.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • njnancynjnancy Northern New JerseyPosts: 4,960
    PJ_Soul said:
    njnancy said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think anyone paying that much of a markup on anything is being ripped off (and I don't think I need those making the purchases to feel like they are being ripped off to think this). I do not automatically think someone who is simply paying more at one place than at another is.
    I don't understand why you are so dismissive sometimes. You are a pleasure to have discussions with but when you take a stance sometimes, you refuse to think anyone who disagrees can possibly be making decisions on their own.

    Your statement is basically saying that anyone who thinks differently than you is brainwashed by the greeting card industry and isn't really thinking for themselves because, unlike you, we have not opened our minds wide enough to realize what societal pressures are forcing us to do. I reject that sort of thinking. I could accept your opinion as different than mine if you were not so insulting to my intelligence. I'm not being led about by the mind police and you are not more enlightened than me. We have a different opinion, we don't have different levels of consciousness. 

    So much for where I agree with you. So stubborn sometimes, Alli. Definitely a Taurus, for sure.
    I'm not being stubborn or dismissive. I'm just stating my own opinion about greeting cards being a rip off. I also never said that someone disagreeing isn't making decisions on their own - I'm actually not sure why you're saying that. Of course people are making decisions on their own - I don't see how that has anything to do with what I've said though!

    I am also absolutely NOT saying that anyone who thinks differently than me is brainwashed, and if that is how you've interpreted my perspective, I suppose I'm doing a bad job of expressing myself. And for the record, I buy greeting cards, lol. I do not think I am brainwashed! And your hyperbole in your post tells me that you are taking everything I said with MUCH more weight than it was intended.

    I feel like the real confusion is simply coming from different ways of defining what a rip off is TBH.
    Perhaps I have read you wrong. Perhaps we think a rip off is different. I really don't know and it really doesn't matter in the long  run. 


  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
    edited May 14
    njnancy said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    njnancy said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think anyone paying that much of a markup on anything is being ripped off (and I don't think I need those making the purchases to feel like they are being ripped off to think this). I do not automatically think someone who is simply paying more at one place than at another is.
    I don't understand why you are so dismissive sometimes. You are a pleasure to have discussions with but when you take a stance sometimes, you refuse to think anyone who disagrees can possibly be making decisions on their own.

    Your statement is basically saying that anyone who thinks differently than you is brainwashed by the greeting card industry and isn't really thinking for themselves because, unlike you, we have not opened our minds wide enough to realize what societal pressures are forcing us to do. I reject that sort of thinking. I could accept your opinion as different than mine if you were not so insulting to my intelligence. I'm not being led about by the mind police and you are not more enlightened than me. We have a different opinion, we don't have different levels of consciousness. 

    So much for where I agree with you. So stubborn sometimes, Alli. Definitely a Taurus, for sure.
    I'm not being stubborn or dismissive. I'm just stating my own opinion about greeting cards being a rip off. I also never said that someone disagreeing isn't making decisions on their own - I'm actually not sure why you're saying that. Of course people are making decisions on their own - I don't see how that has anything to do with what I've said though!

    I am also absolutely NOT saying that anyone who thinks differently than me is brainwashed, and if that is how you've interpreted my perspective, I suppose I'm doing a bad job of expressing myself. And for the record, I buy greeting cards, lol. I do not think I am brainwashed! And your hyperbole in your post tells me that you are taking everything I said with MUCH more weight than it was intended.

    I feel like the real confusion is simply coming from different ways of defining what a rip off is TBH.
    Perhaps I have read you wrong. Perhaps we think a rip off is different. I really don't know and it really doesn't matter in the long  run. 


    It does to me - I actually think I deserve a little more credit that what you just laid on me - your assumptions about where my head is at are disturbing to me! (And I edited my reply btw)
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 20,132
    njnancy said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    People who choose to pay for something most definitely can still be getting ripped off. Very easily. Especially with greeting cards, since most people are made to feel that it's rude in certain situations to NOT buy a nice greeting card.
    To me it isn’t rude but looks awfully cheap. IMO
    Either/or. Social pressures/expectations have a strong influence on people.
    If I go into a card store in order to find a perfect card for someone because it gives me pleasure sending or giving it & the recipient will get pleasure from receiving it, then I'm not being ripped off. I am making a conscious decision to enter that store. I have my choice of type of card and price of card. I am not feeling pressure. It is an enjoyable experience. If I don't buy the card for the person, the world will not end. But the right card can have a strong emotional reaction between you and the recipient. I buy cards on random days more than on holidays, just because I'm thinking of someone. It is different than a text or a gif or comment on-line. 

    It's the same as saying someone going to Starbucks is getting ripped off because society says coffee is better there even though it is cheaper elsewhere, or you can make it at home. It's a choice. People who purchase organic goods, expensive cars, eco-friendly products,  name brand clothing, high end electronic and technological equipment could all be considered being ripped off by someone who doesn't value that choice. One could say that the price is worth the health value, environmental benefit or superior enjoyment of use from the product, but it could still be seen as a rip off by someone who finds those items to be ridiculous, unnecessary, peer driven and over priced.  

    If you don't value greeting cards, then buying one would be a rip-off to you. We all make purchasing decisions based upon our particular value system and what gives us the most enjoyment.

    Some of my most prized possessions are greeting cards that I have received. And on topic with the thread, when someone writes something personal in the card, it makes it even  more special. I've lost many family members so cards that I have saved from them are very dear to me. Being able to see their handwriting on the cards is like having a piece of them still alive. You cannot put a price on that for me. Someone else may throw out every card they receive as soon as they look at it.  Neither is a correct or incorrect reaction. Different strokes. 

    A good example is about a week ago, when my dog died. Several days later, I received a sympathy card from the vet where we had brought her body. We had only been there once before when my mom's dog had an infection, so this was completely unexpected. Actually, when my last dog died, the vet we used regularly who put her down didn't send us anything afterwards. And I didn't expect anything. The card had a very sweet sentiment and was on recycled parchment type paper which was very pretty. This could be cynically looked at as just an advertisement, but I was touched.

    Even more,  on the inside of the card,  they had pressed impressions of Chelsea's paw prints with her name underneath. :heart: There was no way they could have known but my son wanted her paw print to use for a tattoo but it was just not feasible for several reasons. The card was so special and brought both joy and tears. I think it was very kind of them, and to have Chelsea's paw prints is a gift. Though it may be their practice whenever this situation occurs, it does not take away from what it meant to us. This is the power of a personal message and a card. 

    I do agree with your argument in two instances, but I'm teary eyed after my last paragraph, so I'll 'save it for later'.  :heartbreak:
    I still have and occasionally look through the cards and letters from my dad. They resonate HIM, and will be with me until I die.

    And kudos to your vet.  All should be so heart-full :)
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
    edited May 14
    (BTW, I did already say, but for those of you who think I'm dead inside or something, I'll reiterate that I do value the sentiment of greeting cards .... And I still think they are a rip off, lol. I really don't think them being a rip off has any impact on the meaning they might hold for people)
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 12,205
    hedonist said:
    Random cards are the best and among my most cherished.  It matters not to me if it's bought or looks like something a three-year-old would make.  The intent and warm energy are there, regardless of the conduit (and for that, I'm thankful).

    Oh, and circling back to the cannibalism issue, while I've never had a hankering for it, I hope I'd do what's necessary to survive.  Long-term hunger can do a number on the mind.  I remember my dad telling me when he was fighting in WWII, starving and hunkered in a foxhole for lengths of time, he and his mission partner would describe in detail the most delectable meals.  Probably played a huge part in his - and now my - need to not waste food, or anything in general.
    This was the first post in this thread that I read.  There is much confusion.
  • njnancynjnancy Northern New JerseyPosts: 4,960
    PJ_Soul said:
    njnancy said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    njnancy said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think anyone paying that much of a markup on anything is being ripped off (and I don't think I need those making the purchases to feel like they are being ripped off to think this). I do not automatically think someone who is simply paying more at one place than at another is.
    I don't understand why you are so dismissive sometimes. You are a pleasure to have discussions with but when you take a stance sometimes, you refuse to think anyone who disagrees can possibly be making decisions on their own.

    Your statement is basically saying that anyone who thinks differently than you is brainwashed by the greeting card industry and isn't really thinking for themselves because, unlike you, we have not opened our minds wide enough to realize what societal pressures are forcing us to do. I reject that sort of thinking. I could accept your opinion as different than mine if you were not so insulting to my intelligence. I'm not being led about by the mind police and you are not more enlightened than me. We have a different opinion, we don't have different levels of consciousness. 

    So much for where I agree with you. So stubborn sometimes, Alli. Definitely a Taurus, for sure.
    I'm not being stubborn or dismissive. I'm just stating my own opinion about greeting cards being a rip off. I also never said that someone disagreeing isn't making decisions on their own - I'm actually not sure why you're saying that. Of course people are making decisions on their own - I don't see how that has anything to do with what I've said though!

    I am also absolutely NOT saying that anyone who thinks differently than me is brainwashed, and if that is how you've interpreted my perspective, I suppose I'm doing a bad job of expressing myself. And for the record, I buy greeting cards, lol. I do not think I am brainwashed! And your hyperbole in your post tells me that you are taking everything I said with MUCH more weight than it was intended.

    I feel like the real confusion is simply coming from different ways of defining what a rip off is TBH.
    Perhaps I have read you wrong. Perhaps we think a rip off is different. I really don't know and it really doesn't matter in the long  run. 


    It does to me - I actually think I deserve a little more credit that what you just laid on me - your assumptions about where my head is at is disturbing to me!
    I do feel like you dismiss opinions that don't align with yours, at times. It may be in the way that you express something that you truly believe. But I would never have believed that you buy greeting cards from what you had written. I felt like you just dismissed what I had written instead of something like 'yes, I think it is an entire rip off but there are other people who are okay with that so they feel differently'.  Without that, I was just left with you doubling down on your opinion. 

    And you said that people are being ripped off even if they don't know they are being ripped off. That left me completely unvalidated, like I didn't know that cards are expensive which would make me an idiot. It's kind of the same when you talk about religion and brainwashing. People are brainwashed even if they don't realize it. That is your opinion. But you will not give an inch on anyone else's explanation. If you've been to a Catholic School, you are brainwashed but don't realize it and it's kind of insulting. This was that some sort of feeling about a much much more trivial subject.  

     When I buy gluten free food for my son, I know I'm getting ripped off. If someone needs a sponge for their boat and there is only a boat store,  they are getting ripped off because they are being charged for a  'boat sponge'. I don't feel the same in this instance.  I didn't expect to change your mind, but I did think you would give some sort of validation that another opinion could be valid.  And I give weight to what you say because I respect and like you. 


  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,924
    edited May 14
    njnancy said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    njnancy said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    njnancy said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think anyone paying that much of a markup on anything is being ripped off (and I don't think I need those making the purchases to feel like they are being ripped off to think this). I do not automatically think someone who is simply paying more at one place than at another is.
    I don't understand why you are so dismissive sometimes. You are a pleasure to have discussions with but when you take a stance sometimes, you refuse to think anyone who disagrees can possibly be making decisions on their own.

    Your statement is basically saying that anyone who thinks differently than you is brainwashed by the greeting card industry and isn't really thinking for themselves because, unlike you, we have not opened our minds wide enough to realize what societal pressures are forcing us to do. I reject that sort of thinking. I could accept your opinion as different than mine if you were not so insulting to my intelligence. I'm not being led about by the mind police and you are not more enlightened than me. We have a different opinion, we don't have different levels of consciousness. 

    So much for where I agree with you. So stubborn sometimes, Alli. Definitely a Taurus, for sure.
    I'm not being stubborn or dismissive. I'm just stating my own opinion about greeting cards being a rip off. I also never said that someone disagreeing isn't making decisions on their own - I'm actually not sure why you're saying that. Of course people are making decisions on their own - I don't see how that has anything to do with what I've said though!

    I am also absolutely NOT saying that anyone who thinks differently than me is brainwashed, and if that is how you've interpreted my perspective, I suppose I'm doing a bad job of expressing myself. And for the record, I buy greeting cards, lol. I do not think I am brainwashed! And your hyperbole in your post tells me that you are taking everything I said with MUCH more weight than it was intended.

    I feel like the real confusion is simply coming from different ways of defining what a rip off is TBH.
    Perhaps I have read you wrong. Perhaps we think a rip off is different. I really don't know and it really doesn't matter in the long  run. 


    It does to me - I actually think I deserve a little more credit that what you just laid on me - your assumptions about where my head is at is disturbing to me!
    I do feel like you dismiss opinions that don't align with yours, at times. It may be in the way that you express something that you truly believe. But I would never have believed that you buy greeting cards from what you had written. I felt like you just dismissed what I had written instead of something like 'yes, I think it is an entire rip off but there are other people who are okay with that so they feel differently'.  Without that, I was just left with you doubling down on your opinion. 

    And you said that people are being ripped off even if they don't know they are being ripped off. That left me completely unvalidated, like I didn't know that cards are expensive which would make me an idiot. It's kind of the same when you talk about religion and brainwashing. People are brainwashed even if they don't realize it. That is your opinion. But you will not give an inch on anyone else's explanation. If you've been to a Catholic School, you are brainwashed but don't realize it and it's kind of insulting. This was that some sort of feeling about a much much more trivial subject.  

     When I buy gluten free food for my son, I know I'm getting ripped off. If someone needs a sponge for their boat and there is only a boat store,  they are getting ripped off because they are being charged for a  'boat sponge'. I don't feel the same in this instance.  I didn't expect to change your mind, but I did think you would give some sort of validation that another opinion could be valid.  And I give weight to what you say because I respect and like you. 


    Okay, well, to straighten things out, I absolutely do express my own opinion strongly and confidently, but I am NEVER dismissive of anyone's opinion, whether they agree with me or not. Even if I think someone else's opinion is nuts (doesn't apply here), I'm not dismissive of the nutzo opinion, lol. I honestly think "at times" you might think that simply because when I happen to be responding, I don't have the time to type more, so I'm just being brief and sticking with limited points because of that. Not dismissive. I often don't have time (or the fortitude, sometimes) to deal with and consider every little nuance of my post or those of others, that's all, and sometimes may not address everything brought up in the post I'm responding to. Your posts are always VERY thought out and detailed, which I know many appreciate, myself included, but I'm just not in the position to always reciprocate equally! Also, as I don't really require much validation of my own opinions to feel comfortable with them, I'm not necessarily inclined to go out of my way to specifically validate other people's opinions. I just take it for granted that we're disagreeing and, and that's that. No big deal. The very fact that we are even having a conversation seems like enough validation to me.

    I did say that people are being ripped off even if they don't think they are being ripped off. That definitely is only about how I define being ripped off. To me it's not about the feelings or attitudes of the people at all, or how happy or satisfied one might feel in the purchase. It's simply about the difference between the cost of production vs the retail price!

    As for religion and brainwashing... well, yes, I'm perfectly aware that is insulting to religious people, but I can't help that. It's completely unavoidable, because I think just the belief in the existence of God alone is the result of being brainwashed, and I see no alternative to that fact (as I see it). I think that people are taught to believe in God and whatever dogma that goes with it in their religion, and that is brainwashing by definition (I do not think everyone who has gone to Catholic School is brainwashed though... I'm pretty sure Atheists have attended such schools). I don't intend to insult anyone saying that, it just is what it is. I can't help it. If I'm to be honest about my own beliefs about it, I can't get around that. I have to just accept that that will insult people who believe in God. It's not a reflection of my personality or my feelings about opinions in general. That's a very specific topic and doesn't reflect my attitude about other things.

    I like you very much.... I just wish you wouldn't think the worst of me when you find yourself disagreeing with my opinions or my delivery or whatever, because your conclusions about what I meant here were really quite monstrous IMO. Just ask me what I meant maybe, because if you think I'm being THAT unreasonable, there is likely just a misunderstanding happening.

    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 20,132
    hedonist said:
    Random cards are the best and among my most cherished.  It matters not to me if it's bought or looks like something a three-year-old would make.  The intent and warm energy are there, regardless of the conduit (and for that, I'm thankful).

    Oh, and circling back to the cannibalism issue, while I've never had a hankering for it, I hope I'd do what's necessary to survive.  Long-term hunger can do a number on the mind.  I remember my dad telling me when he was fighting in WWII, starving and hunkered in a foxhole for lengths of time, he and his mission partner would describe in detail the most delectable meals.  Probably played a huge part in his - and now my - need to not waste food, or anything in general.
    This was the first post in this thread that I read.  There is much confusion.
    Ha!
  • njnancynjnancy Northern New JerseyPosts: 4,960
    edited May 15
    PJ_Soul said:
    njnancy said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    njnancy said:
    Perhaps I have read you wrong. Perhaps we think a rip off is different. I really don't know and it really doesn't matter in the long  run. 


    It does to me - I actually think I deserve a little more credit that what you just laid on me - your assumptions about where my head is at is disturbing to me!
    I do feel like you dismiss opinions that don't align with yours, at times. It may be in the way that you express something that you truly believe. But I would never have believed that you buy greeting cards from what you had written. I felt like you just dismissed what I had written instead of something like 'yes, I think it is an entire rip off but there are other people who are okay with that so they feel differently'.  Without that, I was just left with you doubling down on your opinion. 

    And you said that people are being ripped off even if they don't know they are being ripped off. That left me completely unvalidated, like I didn't know that cards are expensive which would make me an idiot. It's kind of the same when you talk about religion and brainwashing. People are brainwashed even if they don't realize it. That is your opinion. But you will not give an inch on anyone else's explanation. If you've been to a Catholic School, you are brainwashed but don't realize it and it's kind of insulting. This was that some sort of feeling about a much much more trivial subject.  

     When I buy gluten free food for my son, I know I'm getting ripped off. If someone needs a sponge for their boat and there is only a boat store,  they are getting ripped off because they are being charged for a  'boat sponge'. I don't feel the same in this instance.  I didn't expect to change your mind, but I did think you would give some sort of validation that another opinion could be valid.  And I give weight to what you say because I respect and like you. 


    Okay, well, to straighten things out, I absolutely do express my own opinion strongly and confidently, but I am NEVER dismissive of anyone's opinion, whether they agree with me or not. Even if I think someone else's opinion is nuts (doesn't apply here), I'm not dismissive of the nutzo opinion, lol. I honestly think "at times" you might think that simply because when I happen to be responding, I don't have the time to type more, so I'm just being brief and sticking with limited points because of that. Not dismissive. I often don't have time (or the fortitude, sometimes) to deal with and consider every little nuance of my post or those of others, that's all, and sometimes may not address everything brought up in the post I'm responding to. Your posts are always VERY thought out and detailed, which I know many appreciate, myself included, but I'm just not in the position to always reciprocate equally! Also, as I don't really require much validation of my own opinions to feel comfortable with them, I'm not necessarily inclined to go out of my way to specifically validate other people's opinions. I just take it for granted that we're disagreeing and, and that's that. No big deal. The very fact that we are even having a conversation seems like enough validation to me.

    I did say that people are being ripped off even if they don't think they are being ripped off. That definitely is only about how I define being ripped off. To me it's not about the feelings or attitudes of the people at all, or how happy or satisfied one might feel in the purchase. It's simply about the difference between the cost of production vs the retail price!

    As for religion and brainwashing... well, yes, I'm perfectly aware that is insulting to religious people, but I can't help that. It's completely unavoidable, because I think just the belief in the existence of God alone is the result of being brainwashed, and I see no alternative to that fact (as I see it). I think that people are taught to believe in God and whatever dogma that goes with it in their religion, and that is brainwashing by definition (I do not think everyone who has gone to Catholic School is brainwashed though... I'm pretty sure Atheists have attended such schools). I don't intend to insult anyone saying that, it just is what it is. I can't help it. If I'm to be honest about my own beliefs about it, I can't get around that. I have to just accept that that will insult people who believe in God. It's not a reflection of my personality or my feelings about opinions in general. That's a very specific topic and doesn't reflect my attitude about other things.

    I like you very much.... I just wish you wouldn't think the worst of me when you find yourself disagreeing with my opinions or my delivery or whatever, because your conclusions about what I meant here were really quite monstrous IMO. Just ask me what I meant maybe, because if you think I'm being THAT unreasonable, there is likely just a misunderstanding happening.

    I really wasn't thinking the worst of you so I'm sorry that my description was so heavy handed. I was trying to figure out a way to explain myself without being offensive and I did not succeed, so I apologize for making you sound like someone that you aren't.  

    I think that your first paragraph explains where we got crossed. I get very into discussions and when I receive a short reply I feel like the discussion has been ended. I wasn't sure what you meant and I almost replied 'Huh?' to your post, but instead I went the dismissive route. Should have gone with my instinct for Huh. 

    I do not know how to respond to a short response like that sometimes and in the future I will ask what you mean. I don't expect you to respond to every point I made - I know that I write in a discussion style more than most and I don't usually have short responses. If I'm not in the mood to engage, I usually just skip posting. Short posts are a work in progress for me. Sometimes I see a short response as a dismissal of my opinion when the poster is just being brief. I need to work on knowing how to respond to those posts. Being dismissed is something that bothers me due to RL experience, so that hit a nerve, even though I now realize you weren't doing that.  


    I am sorry for offending you and for thinking you were being so unreasonable. We have different styles of communication and different triggers, or at least I have some, so I'll work on asking instead of assuming the worst in the future. I know you will discuss your POV with anyone. I was just taken off guard this time and things went sideways.   I REALLY did not think you were monstrous and I am sorry that my words were so strong. I didn't mean to cast you in a negative light, even though that's what I did. I can only try to do better in the future. 


    EDIT - I also missed a bunch of posts which would have changed how I viewed things. 

    Post edited by njnancy on
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 28,929
    edited May 15
    Today was C's birthday.   She loves getting cards.  Guess what?  I got her a card!  Ah!, but better yet, I gave her a big fat gift card for her favorite nursery/garden shop.  AND a really cool jigsaw puzzle.  AND made a fabulous dinner (we more often than not go vegetarian but tonight, filet mignon on the rare side-- perfect!)  AND cake.  AND a fine bottle of wine.

    Did I mention I also get her a card?  LOL.
    “After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music.”
    -Aldous Huxley
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.









  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,720
    brianlux said:
    Today was C's birthday.   She loves getting cards.  Guess what?  I got her a card!  Ah!, but better yet, I gave her a big fat gift card for her favorite nursery/garden shop.  AND a really cool jigsaw puzzle.  AND made a fabulous dinner (we more often than not go vegetarian but tonight, filet mignon on the rare side-- perfect!)  AND cake.  AND a fine bottle of wine.

    Did I mention I also get her a card?  LOL.
    the big question is.....did you get ripped off? LOL
    12/29/19
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