The Democratic Candidates

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

Mayor Pete on free college...

Americans who have a college degree earn more than Americans who don’t. As a progressive, I have a hard time getting my head around the idea of a majority who earn less because they didn’t go to college subsidizing a minority who earn more because they did.

I might be all in on this guy...

I kind of see his point but then how do we make it more affordable for people to go to college so more people can be better off?  

You see, other than receiving some support from my folks the first couple years, my college years were never subsidized by the public- all totaled about 7 years, two degrees, a teaching credential in three states, one certificate in California and about 220 college credits.  If I were young and starting today, no way could I ever afford to do that, let alone a simple two year AA or 4 your degree.

And what happens if we don't have enough health care practitioners because not enough people could afford to go to med school?  Or environmental lawyers?  Or alternative energy engineers?  Etc.

So dealing with cost curve and how it's outpacing inflation is something that has to be dealt with.  
But it's interesting that you bring up medical degrees and attorneys, specifically.  Those degrees are such high paying jobs,  that the investment in loans,  even at these inflated rates,  pays off.  

Other degrees,  non advanced degrees,  like teaching,  nursing,  etc., are an issue.  My position is that I support substantial aid for those in need,  for degrees that are in demand for society.  I would have no issue paying higher taxes for lower middle class and below,  receiving free or substantially reduced community college,  then 2 year state degrees for those types of professions.  

The average income for a family practitioner is 240k. A specialist is about 350. These are averages.  100k in medical school debt is not a death sentence and none of us should subsidize that.

But M, I said health care practitioners, not doctors. Not all health care workers are doctors.  Oh, I agree we don't need to subsidize people who are going to get stinking rich off other people misery.  But not all health care workers and/or doctors are out to rip people off. My brother in law (now deceased) worked with doctors without borders in south America.  He was not at all a wealthy man.

As for lawyers, see above.

And I'm not just talking about lawyers and doctors.  We need good, qualified fire fighters, police men and women, teachers, counselors, educated journalists and editors, archivists, librarians, fundraisers, graphic designers, recording engineers and on and on.  Anyone with a college degree  is far more apt to get jobs like these- skilled jons that offer services many of us depend on-  and be better trained to do them well.  I'm all for finding ways to get more people into and through college. 

I think Mayor Pet's comment was a bit of a gross oversight and not conducive to garnering my vote.

Brian,

Im with you all the way.  My comments about the govt helping lower income people with "in need" careers applies to what you're saying.   I agree that Pete's comments are overstated.  But Warren talking about forgiving all student debt and make college free regardless of need or income level are overstated on the other side. Im a bug believer in means testing,  in general, and when you talk about subsidized tuition,  then I add "public need of the career" to the equation. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

these blanket statements are just fucking hilarious in their ignorance. 

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

these blanket statements are just fucking hilarious in their ignorance. 

There are currently 1.34 million lawyers in the US. 1 for every 300 people. All I’m saying is that is plenty, we don’t need more and we certainly do need tax payers $ going towards creating more

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

these blanket statements are just fucking hilarious in their ignorance. 

There are currently 1.34 million lawyers in the US. 1 for every 300 people. All I’m saying is that is plenty, we don’t need more and we certainly do need tax payers $ going towards creating more

Your comment was not what I was referring to, but since you replied, the market will decide how many lawyers are needed. I'd rather have more lawyers fighting for business (lower rates) than a handful charging more than what an average person can afford. 

The market will decide....unless of course government is paying for everyone’s degree...then people will just pick what they want and it might not be what we need.