The Democratic Candidates

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Comments

  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 18,324
    Jason P said:
    I would surmise that the DNC had 10,000x more involvement in influencing Hillary’s nomination than the Russians did with Trump. 


    The DNC spent millions on sleeper agents with access to military assets impersonating democratic campaigners to help get Hillary elected?
    trillions, all culled from the masses of small donor dollars.  
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 18,324
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    it would be mind numblingly stupid to get the "fix" in for any nominee, unless you want to destroy your own party's chances. you let the people decide so you know who has the best chance of winning. 
    Agreed.

    Doesn't mean they won't do it.
    Explain 'fixing' please. 
    By the strictest of definitions, I suppose "fixed" isn't the word.  But the Brazille story points to the party hedging its bets toward Hillary.  It's kinda like the NBA.  No, they don't script a win for the higher-profile teams and players, but they give them the benefit of the doubt on the calls.  The lesser team has to do better than play even with the more important team. Similarly, I don't think you have to be outrageously cynical to think Bernie needed a better-than-50% +1 performance to beat Hillary and that it's because the party was favoring her from day 1.

    I share some of the criticism that Bernie is only a Democrat when it's convenient.  And I understand that the party can run itself how it wants to. But the superdelegates are able water down the vote.

    If the party leaders want Biden and the voters come out overwhelmingly for, say, Harris, then Harris will win the nomination.  But if it's close, the party leaders should prevail. Fix?  No. Hedge?  I'd say so.
    Hedging “bets” is a fact of life and individuals and organizations do it all the time. And party leaders want the “win.”
    The fundraising deal was made in 2015, before Bernie was even a Democrat.  I never saw how this was some indication of fixing, although I appreciate OnWis's softening of the word.  But it's annoying that this talking point persists, while materially untrue.  
    And this talking point is likely one of the reason so many Sanders voters defected to Trump (enough to tip the three key states), let alone those that stayed home.  
    This talking point is starting again.  
    I totally get it. Biden opening a huge lead early as an old stodgy white guy must be because of a fix or hedge and for no other possible reason(s). Some people can’t accept that Bernie and his policies are too radical. Has anyone ever asked Bernie how he’d get congress to go along to implement his policies or does that not matter, being pure and all?

    This is exactly why, although I like Bernie the most, I wouldn't vote for him in the primary if I were to vote in it

    What is normal to most of the world is radical policy here.  Bernie doesn't get that things need to happen incrementally to get support from moderate voters
    Yes, agreed, but it eventually happens.  Look at Obamacare.  That was ridiculed as radical (even though the Heritage Foundation wrote the same plan in the 90s) and it was highly unpopular when it came out.  It certainly had a lot to do with the 2014 drubbing.  But its popularity grows every year, and the GOP doesn't want to go near it for this election.  That's very telling.  
    True but it also consumed the first two years of Obama’s presidency and was a huge legislative lift, involving inclusion of the repubs and even some of their previous positions/ideas and the health care and insurance industry and still, it only passed on a completely partisan vote. Ted Kennedy and his health down the stretch probably contributed as well.

    As for Bernie, listened to him interviewed on PBS news hour last night and while he’s great at throwing out stats and bemoaning the facts, he has no actual statements on how he’d accomplish cutting drug prices by 50%, particularly in this hyper partisan political climate. Not one repub would support any of his policy ideas, particularly as it relates to socialist causes. He was asked about Team Trump Treason’s trade policy and wouldn’t admit to supporting Team Trump Treason’s policy, despite having talked about the unfairness of NAFTA and TPP. After 4 attempts, he finally admitted that he agrees with Team Trump Treason but not his approach. I also have an issue with his previous hesitation of releasing his tax returns. Plenty of rhetoric, sorely lacking in details. And he’s not a dem. Go Joe Go.
     
    Agreed as well.  Obama paid a pretty heavy political price and it hobbled his presidency for any real change after that.  People say "what did Obama do", well he did a ton in the first term, particularly the first two years (Stimulus, Card Act, Dodd Frank).  After that, he couldn't get much done, but it was the sacrifice of healthcare.  And every  year it's in place, it becomes more sacrosanct, more untouchable.  That will be his legacy.  
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 25,074
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    it would be mind numblingly stupid to get the "fix" in for any nominee, unless you want to destroy your own party's chances. you let the people decide so you know who has the best chance of winning. 
    Agreed.

    Doesn't mean they won't do it.
    Explain 'fixing' please. 
    By the strictest of definitions, I suppose "fixed" isn't the word.  But the Brazille story points to the party hedging its bets toward Hillary.  It's kinda like the NBA.  No, they don't script a win for the higher-profile teams and players, but they give them the benefit of the doubt on the calls.  The lesser team has to do better than play even with the more important team. Similarly, I don't think you have to be outrageously cynical to think Bernie needed a better-than-50% +1 performance to beat Hillary and that it's because the party was favoring her from day 1.

    I share some of the criticism that Bernie is only a Democrat when it's convenient.  And I understand that the party can run itself how it wants to. But the superdelegates are able water down the vote.

    If the party leaders want Biden and the voters come out overwhelmingly for, say, Harris, then Harris will win the nomination.  But if it's close, the party leaders should prevail. Fix?  No. Hedge?  I'd say so.
    Hedging “bets” is a fact of life and individuals and organizations do it all the time. And party leaders want the “win.”
    The fundraising deal was made in 2015, before Bernie was even a Democrat.  I never saw how this was some indication of fixing, although I appreciate OnWis's softening of the word.  But it's annoying that this talking point persists, while materially untrue.  
    And this talking point is likely one of the reason so many Sanders voters defected to Trump (enough to tip the three key states), let alone those that stayed home.  
    This talking point is starting again.  
    I totally get it. Biden opening a huge lead early as an old stodgy white guy must be because of a fix or hedge and for no other possible reason(s). Some people can’t accept that Bernie and his policies are too radical. Has anyone ever asked Bernie how he’d get congress to go along to implement his policies or does that not matter, being pure and all?

    This is exactly why, although I like Bernie the most, I wouldn't vote for him in the primary if I were to vote in it

    What is normal to most of the world is radical policy here.  Bernie doesn't get that things need to happen incrementally to get support from moderate voters
    Yes, agreed, but it eventually happens.  Look at Obamacare.  That was ridiculed as radical (even though the Heritage Foundation wrote the same plan in the 90s) and it was highly unpopular when it came out.  It certainly had a lot to do with the 2014 drubbing.  But its popularity grows every year, and the GOP doesn't want to go near it for this election.  That's very telling.  
    True but it also consumed the first two years of Obama’s presidency and was a huge legislative lift, involving inclusion of the repubs and even some of their previous positions/ideas and the health care and insurance industry and still, it only passed on a completely partisan vote. Ted Kennedy and his health down the stretch probably contributed as well.

    As for Bernie, listened to him interviewed on PBS news hour last night and while he’s great at throwing out stats and bemoaning the facts, he has no actual statements on how he’d accomplish cutting drug prices by 50%, particularly in this hyper partisan political climate. Not one repub would support any of his policy ideas, particularly as it relates to socialist causes. He was asked about Team Trump Treason’s trade policy and wouldn’t admit to supporting Team Trump Treason’s policy, despite having talked about the unfairness of NAFTA and TPP. After 4 attempts, he finally admitted that he agrees with Team Trump Treason but not his approach. I also have an issue with his previous hesitation of releasing his tax returns. Plenty of rhetoric, sorely lacking in details. And he’s not a dem. Go Joe Go.
     
    Agreed as well.  Obama paid a pretty heavy political price and it hobbled his presidency for any real change after that.  People say "what did Obama do", well he did a ton in the first term, particularly the first two years (Stimulus, Card Act, Dodd Frank).  After that, he couldn't get much done, but it was the sacrifice of healthcare.  And every  year it's in place, it becomes more sacrosanct, more untouchable.  That will be his legacy.  
    It is still unfathomable to me that with all the repub pissing and moaning about it and campaigning on replacing it with something better, more beautiful and cheaper, that after 11 years they’ve done zero, zilch, nada. Could have been heroes and cemented congress for at least 3 more election cycles. Brilliant.
     
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 18,324
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    it would be mind numblingly stupid to get the "fix" in for any nominee, unless you want to destroy your own party's chances. you let the people decide so you know who has the best chance of winning. 
    Agreed.

    Doesn't mean they won't do it.
    Explain 'fixing' please. 
    By the strictest of definitions, I suppose "fixed" isn't the word.  But the Brazille story points to the party hedging its bets toward Hillary.  It's kinda like the NBA.  No, they don't script a win for the higher-profile teams and players, but they give them the benefit of the doubt on the calls.  The lesser team has to do better than play even with the more important team. Similarly, I don't think you have to be outrageously cynical to think Bernie needed a better-than-50% +1 performance to beat Hillary and that it's because the party was favoring her from day 1.

    I share some of the criticism that Bernie is only a Democrat when it's convenient.  And I understand that the party can run itself how it wants to. But the superdelegates are able water down the vote.

    If the party leaders want Biden and the voters come out overwhelmingly for, say, Harris, then Harris will win the nomination.  But if it's close, the party leaders should prevail. Fix?  No. Hedge?  I'd say so.
    Hedging “bets” is a fact of life and individuals and organizations do it all the time. And party leaders want the “win.”
    The fundraising deal was made in 2015, before Bernie was even a Democrat.  I never saw how this was some indication of fixing, although I appreciate OnWis's softening of the word.  But it's annoying that this talking point persists, while materially untrue.  
    And this talking point is likely one of the reason so many Sanders voters defected to Trump (enough to tip the three key states), let alone those that stayed home.  
    This talking point is starting again.  
    I totally get it. Biden opening a huge lead early as an old stodgy white guy must be because of a fix or hedge and for no other possible reason(s). Some people can’t accept that Bernie and his policies are too radical. Has anyone ever asked Bernie how he’d get congress to go along to implement his policies or does that not matter, being pure and all?

    This is exactly why, although I like Bernie the most, I wouldn't vote for him in the primary if I were to vote in it

    What is normal to most of the world is radical policy here.  Bernie doesn't get that things need to happen incrementally to get support from moderate voters
    Yes, agreed, but it eventually happens.  Look at Obamacare.  That was ridiculed as radical (even though the Heritage Foundation wrote the same plan in the 90s) and it was highly unpopular when it came out.  It certainly had a lot to do with the 2014 drubbing.  But its popularity grows every year, and the GOP doesn't want to go near it for this election.  That's very telling.  
    True but it also consumed the first two years of Obama’s presidency and was a huge legislative lift, involving inclusion of the repubs and even some of their previous positions/ideas and the health care and insurance industry and still, it only passed on a completely partisan vote. Ted Kennedy and his health down the stretch probably contributed as well.

    As for Bernie, listened to him interviewed on PBS news hour last night and while he’s great at throwing out stats and bemoaning the facts, he has no actual statements on how he’d accomplish cutting drug prices by 50%, particularly in this hyper partisan political climate. Not one repub would support any of his policy ideas, particularly as it relates to socialist causes. He was asked about Team Trump Treason’s trade policy and wouldn’t admit to supporting Team Trump Treason’s policy, despite having talked about the unfairness of NAFTA and TPP. After 4 attempts, he finally admitted that he agrees with Team Trump Treason but not his approach. I also have an issue with his previous hesitation of releasing his tax returns. Plenty of rhetoric, sorely lacking in details. And he’s not a dem. Go Joe Go.
     
    Agreed as well.  Obama paid a pretty heavy political price and it hobbled his presidency for any real change after that.  People say "what did Obama do", well he did a ton in the first term, particularly the first two years (Stimulus, Card Act, Dodd Frank).  After that, he couldn't get much done, but it was the sacrifice of healthcare.  And every  year it's in place, it becomes more sacrosanct, more untouchable.  That will be his legacy.  
    It is still unfathomable to me that with all the repub pissing and moaning about it and campaigning on replacing it with something better, more beautiful and cheaper, that after 11 years they’ve done zero, zilch, nada. Could have been heroes and cemented congress for at least 3 more election cycles. Brilliant.
     
    If I was a cynical man, I might be inclined to think that Trump lied to me about repealing it day one with something beautiful and dirt cheap.  But I hate to be like that.  
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 13,952
    edited May 2019
    This is hilarious...


    Post edited by Ledbetterman10 on
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  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 23,679
    https://twitter.com/ezraklein/status/1126611783114838016?s=21
    He seems like a good human I’ll have give him a serious look ..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 25,074
    My nickname for Biden is Country Joe and the Fish. At least that’s what I hear in my head when I hear any reference to him.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon I'm from Winnipeg, you idiot! (Chris Jericho)Posts: 22,238
    Sloppy Joe for me. I don't care if it's negative. It's awesome! he needs his face on a can! 
    1993 - Gimli, MB (Sun/Mudfest)
    2003 - Fargo, ND
    2005 - Winnipeg, MB
    2011 - Minneapolis, MN (EV)
    2011 - Winnipeg, MB
    2014 - St. Paul, MN
    2020 - Ottawa, ON
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 14,349
    Sloppy Joe for me. I don't care if it's negative. It's awesome! he needs his face on a can! 
    He's more likely to get his face sniffing someone's can.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon I'm from Winnipeg, you idiot! (Chris Jericho)Posts: 22,238
    Sloppy Joe for me. I don't care if it's negative. It's awesome! he needs his face on a can! 
    He's more likely to get his face sniffing someone's can.
    LOL
    1993 - Gimli, MB (Sun/Mudfest)
    2003 - Fargo, ND
    2005 - Winnipeg, MB
    2011 - Minneapolis, MN (EV)
    2011 - Winnipeg, MB
    2014 - St. Paul, MN
    2020 - Ottawa, ON
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,351
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,351

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,351
    This is hilarious...


    This alone should win him the election.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 13,952
    This is hilarious...


    This alone should win him the election.
    Calling the kid that doesn't thinking reading and writing are important dumb earned him my vote if he wins the nomination. 
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 18,324
    This is hilarious...


    This alone should win him the election.
    Well it's funny, because he is acting out so many things we've been taught NOT to do over the years.  
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,351
    Lighten up people. 

    He’s funny. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 14,349
    See kids know Bernie is messed up in the head and you should run away from him.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,351
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 18,324
    Lighten up people. 

    He’s funny. 
    Not really.  Talking about stereotypes like that isn't really funny.  And telling kids that Jews have weird sex?  Wtf?
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 18,324
    So the right wing propaganda machine has been trashing him since 92? That's news to me 
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 23,690
    mrussel1 said:
    Lighten up people. 

    He’s funny. 
    Not really.  Talking about stereotypes like that isn't really funny.  And telling kids that Jews have weird sex?  Wtf?
    Especially since the third (could be second) largest Jewish population Outside of Israel went all trump last election. (Lakewood , nj).  Stereotypes of any kind are pretty moronic. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 18,324
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Lighten up people. 

    He’s funny. 
    Not really.  Talking about stereotypes like that isn't really funny.  And telling kids that Jews have weird sex?  Wtf?
    Especially since the third (could be second) largest Jewish population Outside of Israel went all trump last election. (Lakewood , nj).  Stereotypes of any kind are pretty moronic. 
    It's just a bizarre conversation to have with children. 
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 23,690
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Lighten up people. 

    He’s funny. 
    Not really.  Talking about stereotypes like that isn't really funny.  And telling kids that Jews have weird sex?  Wtf?
    Especially since the third (could be second) largest Jewish population Outside of Israel went all trump last election. (Lakewood , nj).  Stereotypes of any kind are pretty moronic. 
    It's just a bizarre conversation to have with children. 
    100% agree bud.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,351
    edited May 2019
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Lighten up people. 

    He’s funny. 
    Not really.  Talking about stereotypes like that isn't really funny.  And telling kids that Jews have weird sex?  Wtf?
    Especially since the third (could be second) largest Jewish population Outside of Israel went all trump last election. (Lakewood , nj).  Stereotypes of any kind are pretty moronic. 
    It's just a bizarre conversation to have with children. 
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Lighten up people. 

    He’s funny. 
    Not really.  Talking about stereotypes like that isn't really funny.  And telling kids that Jews have weird sex?  Wtf?
    Especially since the third (could be second) largest Jewish population Outside of Israel went all trump last election. (Lakewood , nj).  Stereotypes of any kind are pretty moronic. 
    It's just a bizarre conversation to have with children. 
    100% agree bud.
    He wasnt talking about stereotypes with the school children to be funny though. 

    It wasnt a Trump rally.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,232
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Lighten up people. 

    He’s funny. 
    Not really.  Talking about stereotypes like that isn't really funny.  And telling kids that Jews have weird sex?  Wtf?
    Especially since the third (could be second) largest Jewish population Outside of Israel went all trump last election. (Lakewood , nj).  Stereotypes of any kind are pretty moronic. 
    It's just a bizarre conversation to have with children. 
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Lighten up people. 

    He’s funny. 
    Not really.  Talking about stereotypes like that isn't really funny.  And telling kids that Jews have weird sex?  Wtf?
    Especially since the third (could be second) largest Jewish population Outside of Israel went all trump last election. (Lakewood , nj).  Stereotypes of any kind are pretty moronic. 
    It's just a bizarre conversation to have with children. 
    100% agree bud.
    He wasnt talking about stereotypes with the school children to be funny though. 

    It wasnt a Trump rally.
    I wish you luck finding a single other person on this board - regardless of their position - who didn't find that video weird as fuck. Personally though, with the exception of the most egregious character flaws that cannot be separated from an individual, I hope videos from 30 years ago are more or less written off by the public. We're not voting who politicians were 30 years ago, we're doling them out to who they are today.

    At least I hope so, or we should start seeing 7-year-old Pete Buttigieg videos shortly and forming opinions by the fact that he preferred sandwiches with the corners left on, or something. 
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
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  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,634
    Mayor Pete is who I would vote for...in a heartbeat.  Most of the rest of the candidates can advise him on the Constitution since they were around when it was wriiten...lol
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 20,554
    Another vote for Weird as Fuck
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,634
    Nothing wrong with weird.  I'd rather have weird than older than dirt running the country...but as a Canadian...I do not get a vote.  
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 18,324
    Nothing wrong with weird.  I'd rather have weird than older than dirt running the country...but as a Canadian...I do not get a vote.  
    So with Bernie you get both?
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,232
    mrussel1 said:
    Nothing wrong with weird.  I'd rather have weird than older than dirt running the country...but as a Canadian...I do not get a vote.  
    So with Bernie you get both?
    :lol:
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
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