The Democratic Candidates

Like most things to do with the criminal justice system, the US is among the most, if not the most, restrictive worldwide regarding voting rights for those convicted of crimes, whether in custody or out of custody. However, it's not a blanket restriction; it varies state to state, and two states allow felons to vote in prison. Other ban voting in prison but allow voting upon release, or upon completion of parole, or after a waiting period, or upon special application and review, etc. 

There is no real, logical reason to deny the right to vote to incarcerated people. It's really just an additional punitive measure - "you can't do this thing that we otherwise ask citizens to do". It's one of those "tough on crime" measures that feels appealing to many but in fact makes people even more disengaged from society and less invested in trying to improve things.  In many states it has been deliberately crafted to disproportionately disenfranchise black voters, as certain minor crimes carry lengthy disenfranchisement.

And in response to another point up above, I work with people with serious mental illness, and they make their voting decisions about as well as the average person. Just because someone has mental illness does not automatically mean they are incapable of understanding social and political issues. In fact, they often understand them very well, usually from the disadvantaged side of the equation. 

cincybearcat said:

pjhawks said:

tbergs said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

ugh.  Bernie Sanders is starting to wear thin on me. He just said he would be in favor of felons having the right to vote while IN prison. 

In a functional democracy, that is not an uncommon right or an uncommon stance to have. Don't see how that can be seen as outrageous by someone in a functional democracy. Agree or not.

I do understand though, you have never experienced a functional democracy. 

I can’t give a rats ass what you and your high horse are saying, felons should not vote. Period. 

Besides it being just what we have been doing, what reason is there for them not to be allowed to vote? I can see not allowing someone to vote who is committed to a mental or state institution, but beyond that, why shouldn't felons be allowed to vote? Millions of people who have done much worse deeds than some of the incarcerated individuals you are referring to are still voting. I think the rule that felons not be allowed to vote doesn't make any sense anymore. It's too generic.

I think if they served their time they should be able to vote but not while they are incarcerated.

This is my belief as well.  Why would we let someone vote that doesn't even get to decide when they can eat, sleep, etc.  Allowing inmates to vote seems pretty crazy to me.  But if someone has an interesting point as to why I'd like to hear it.

Because it is seen as a fundamental right of every citizen. Fundamental. Are people in prison also revoked of their citizenship?

There you have one point.

OnWis97 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

pjhawks said:

tbergs said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

ugh.  Bernie Sanders is starting to wear thin on me. He just said he would be in favor of felons having the right to vote while IN prison. 

In a functional democracy, that is not an uncommon right or an uncommon stance to have. Don't see how that can be seen as outrageous by someone in a functional democracy. Agree or not.

I do understand though, you have never experienced a functional democracy. 

I can’t give a rats ass what you and your high horse are saying, felons should not vote. Period. 

Besides it being just what we have been doing, what reason is there for them not to be allowed to vote? I can see not allowing someone to vote who is committed to a mental or state institution, but beyond that, why shouldn't felons be allowed to vote? Millions of people who have done much worse deeds than some of the incarcerated individuals you are referring to are still voting. I think the rule that felons not be allowed to vote doesn't make any sense anymore. It's too generic.

I think if they served their time they should be able to vote but not while they are incarcerated.

This is my belief as well.  Why would we let someone vote that doesn't even get to decide when they can eat, sleep, etc.  Allowing inmates to vote seems pretty crazy to me.  But if someone has an interesting point as to why I'd like to hear it.

Because it is seen as a fundamental right of every citizen. Fundamental. Are people in prison also revoked of their citizenship?

There you have one point.

My gut says that those who have "paid the debt to society" should vote and those that are incarcerated should not.  But I cannot quite articulately defend it.  If someone's doing 18 months for burglary, then the election impacts their lives as a free person...but if they're doing life, there's not really as much reason to let them vote.  I suppose those people would be one-issue-voters (crime/punishment/prison issues). 

There are countries who do not let people serving time for life vote, but other prisoners. 

Who cares if criminals can vote.  Life is about choices, they made theirs...now they have to deal with it.  However, I do not see inmates causing uprising over whether they can vote or not...

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

pjhawks said:

tbergs said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

ugh.  Bernie Sanders is starting to wear thin on me. He just said he would be in favor of felons having the right to vote while IN prison. 

In a functional democracy, that is not an uncommon right or an uncommon stance to have. Don't see how that can be seen as outrageous by someone in a functional democracy. Agree or not.

I do understand though, you have never experienced a functional democracy. 

I can’t give a rats ass what you and your high horse are saying, felons should not vote. Period. 

Besides it being just what we have been doing, what reason is there for them not to be allowed to vote? I can see not allowing someone to vote who is committed to a mental or state institution, but beyond that, why shouldn't felons be allowed to vote? Millions of people who have done much worse deeds than some of the incarcerated individuals you are referring to are still voting. I think the rule that felons not be allowed to vote doesn't make any sense anymore. It's too generic.

I think if they served their time they should be able to vote but not while they are incarcerated.

This is my belief as well.  Why would we let someone vote that doesn't even get to decide when they can eat, sleep, etc.  Allowing inmates to vote seems pretty crazy to me.  But if someone has an interesting point as to why I'd like to hear it.

Because it is seen as a fundamental right of every citizen. Fundamental. Are people in prison also revoked of their citizenship?

There you have one point.

No, but they have rights taken away.  They are not living in society while incarcerated.  It seems reasonable to me that they lose their voting rights while in prison and not a part of society at large and the regain them when they are released and rejoin society.

Well, if they are part of society or not could be the POV:s that give you these different opinions on the subject. maybe.

oftenreading said:

cincybearcat said:

oftenreading said:

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

pjhawks said:

tbergs said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

ugh.  Bernie Sanders is starting to wear thin on me. He just said he would be in favor of felons having the right to vote while IN prison. 

In a functional democracy, that is not an uncommon right or an uncommon stance to have. Don't see how that can be seen as outrageous by someone in a functional democracy. Agree or not.

I do understand though, you have never experienced a functional democracy. 

I can’t give a rats ass what you and your high horse are saying, felons should not vote. Period. 

Besides it being just what we have been doing, what reason is there for them not to be allowed to vote? I can see not allowing someone to vote who is committed to a mental or state institution, but beyond that, why shouldn't felons be allowed to vote? Millions of people who have done much worse deeds than some of the incarcerated individuals you are referring to are still voting. I think the rule that felons not be allowed to vote doesn't make any sense anymore. It's too generic.

I think if they served their time they should be able to vote but not while they are incarcerated.

This is my belief as well.  Why would we let someone vote that doesn't even get to decide when they can eat, sleep, etc.  Allowing inmates to vote seems pretty crazy to me.  But if someone has an interesting point as to why I'd like to hear it.

Because it is seen as a fundamental right of every citizen. Fundamental. Are people in prison also revoked of their citizenship?

There you have one point.

No, but they have rights taken away.  They are not living in society while incarcerated.  It seems reasonable to me that they lose their voting rights while in prison and not a part of society at large and the regain them when they are released and rejoin society.

They have some rights taken away, not all rights. Thus, there is a decision to make about which rights are taken away. For that to happen, there should be good reasons for it. The rationale for incarceration is generally related to risk to the public. What is the rationale for disenfranchisement? What risk to society does it pose if people in prison vote?

Well the risk is they are voting on matters that they aren’t participating in. They are not living in society.

Its a good question you ask. I’ll have to think on it more.

The vast majority will be living “in society” again, and if not, their friends and family still do. But it’s worth remembering that prisons exist in society, too, and are affected by policy and law, and not just those strictly relating to corrections policy, but issues related to the economy, the environment, and so much more. 
 

As as an aside, I have lots of thoughts on how prisons work, thanks to the bold.

Anyway...I'm starting to move toward "let 'em vote."  Hell, if they cannot vote, that leaves "throwing blacks in jail for marijuana charges" incentivized.  

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

ugh.  Bernie Sanders is starting to wear thin on me. He just said he would be in favor of felons having the right to vote while IN prison. 

In a functional democracy, that is not an uncommon right or an uncommon stance to have. Don't see how that can be seen as outrageous by someone in a functional democracy. Agree or not.

I do understand though, you have never experienced a functional democracy. 

I can’t give a rats ass what you and your high horse are saying, felons should not vote. Period. 

why so judgey?  what do you care? 
it's so statistically insignificant..