The Democratic Candidates
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Every time I hear this discussion I am once again floored by how judgemental people are about someone’s decision to stay in a marriage, and the assumptions people make about said marriage.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0
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I agree. I think she could have been successful without Bill. But again, I wonder if she could have remained as popular with the left if she wasn't linked to Bill. I guess we'll never know...and it's moot now.The Juggler said:
This certainly fueled my dislike for her back in the day. I've always felt that everything she did from the early 90's, to sticking with Bill, to running for senate etc etc was all politically calculated to eventually get her the presidency. Ironically, I think her net favorable s would've been higher had she left him. And, yeah, I would've had more respect for her as well if she did.Ledbetterman10 said:
Well she sure proved that notion wrong as stood beside Bill despite him fucking other women because it was in her best political interest to be Bill Clinton's wife. More of a political partnership than a marriage. And judging by their net worth...a successful one. But I'd have way more respect for her if she kicked him to the curb and went about the rest of her political career on her own.OnWis97 said:
When Bill hit the scene in about 1991, people hated her immediately. Most hated woman in America? Maybe not, but she was hated from day 1. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I really believe much of it was because she was the kind of woman that could succeed with or without her husband; not necessarily what we wanted (then or now) out of our first ladies.HughFreakingDillon said:
it's interesting.....before the election, I had no idea she was the "most hated woman in america". is this just revisionist history?OnWis97 said:
My gut, which is all I have but is the best gut, says that the word "socialist" would have been difficult for Bernie to overcome. But maybe that would not have hurt him as much as 25 years of Hillary being the most hated woman in America. So who knows...mrussel1 said:
You're correct. Any assumptions on the other side are just as tenuous.HughFreakingDillon said:
my question was more geared towards juggler's comment that it is simple math that if hillary won the primary, and lost to trump, that obviously that means bernie loses to trump. but if what you say is true, and is what I suspected, it's not a case of simple math. if she was the most disliked candidate in history, how is it a slam dunk that bernie would have lost to trump?mrussel1 said:
Yes the turnout is much lower. But it's hard to have sympathy for people who choose not to participate and then complain about the outcome.HughFreakingDillon said:
speaking as a canadian who doesn't vote more than once per election cycle, what are the turnout numbers in the primaries vs the general? is it not possible that a lot of people don't vote in the primaries and just wait for the general?The Juggler said:
Dude...huh? Are you drunk? I’m comparing Hillary’s to Bernie’s numbers. If he got smoked by her in the primary and she couldn’t beat Trump in the general, why on earth would you think he would’ve done better than her?Ledbetterman10 said:
That seems a little arbitrary. Trump had more viable candidates in Kasich, Cruz, Rubio, and even Carson against him to take away votes while Hillary just had Bernie to contend with. And even if I'm wrong about that making a difference...has it really come to this, Juggler? Cherry-picking numbers like the percentage of the vote Hillary and Trump got in their respective primaries? That's like a fan of the 18-0 Patriots arguing "Yeah? Well the Pats BEAT the Giants in week 17 that year!"The Juggler said:
For as passionate as those people were, the less likeable candidate still got 4 million more votes (55%-43%) than him in the primaries.Ledbetterman10 said:
Eh...I dunno. At least he had people passionate about him. There were people that enthusiastically voted for him in the primary, and probably would have in the general had he won. It didn't appear that many were passionate or enthusiastic about Hillary. Even I voted for her just under the premise of "Well, I guess I have to."The Juggler said:
Sanders would've gotten CRUSHED had he been the nominee.CM189191 said:
3 million + suckedmy2hands said:
If he was an awful candidate, then what was the candidate that LOST to Donald Trump?what dreams said:Why is it that Bernie Sanders won't accept responsibility for losing the nomination in 2016? All he ever does is blame everyone else. I've never heard him publicly say it was his fault. He lost because he was an awful candidate who couldn't get people excited enough to vote for him. He should just go away. If he loses this time, who will he blame?
Hmmm . . . where have I heard this before????
Yeah, she fucking sucked
it's not.
And anything I say negative about Hillary staying with Bill goes tenfold for Melania Trump. At least his previous wives kicked him to the curb. Imagine how much of a hero for women Melania could be if she had the nerve to divorce the president. Talk about standing up for yourself. But no, now she rarely shows her face in public.2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1
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I don't recall your point of view on this, but do you assume the best of Melania for sticking with Trump? She gets ragged on all the time as well.oftenreading said:Every time I hear this discussion I am once again floored by how judgemental people are about someone’s decision to stay in a marriage, and the assumptions people make about said marriage.It's a hopeless situation...0 -
Agreed however his resume is pretty damn impressive.tbergs said:
This would immediately make every other dem almost a non-factor besides Sanders. Back to the standard old white dudes duking it out for control of the country. I like it and I hate it because the better candidates all have no chance, but I think Biden thumps Trump in a general. Not even close.mcgruff10 said:Good news!
I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
I don’t have much of an opinion on Melania at all. I don’t see her as a significant figure. I think the only times I’ve criticized her is when she’s done something clueless. I find it hard to imagine she loves Trump, mostly because I find it hard to believe anyone loves Trump, but I don’t assume she doesn’t.tbergs said:
I don't recall your point of view on this, but do you assume the best of Melania for sticking with Trump? She gets ragged on all the time as well.oftenreading said:Every time I hear this discussion I am once again floored by how judgemental people are about someone’s decision to stay in a marriage, and the assumptions people make about said marriage.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
One person said Biden’s advisers are also considering an early event in Charlottesville, Virginia, the site of a deadly clash between white supremacists and counterprotesters in 2017. The location would be intended to draw a contrast between Biden and President Donald Trump, who initially said there were some “very fine people on both sides” of the violent confrontation.
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Hey but don’t dare make an analogy about divorced dads.oftenreading said:Every time I hear this discussion I am once again floored by how judgemental people are about someone’s decision to stay in a marriage, and the assumptions people make about said marriage.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
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You are wrong. He is a known entity. But he could be gone after the first debate.mcgruff10 said:
Agreed however his resume is pretty damn impressive.tbergs said:
This would immediately make every other dem almost a non-factor besides Sanders. Back to the standard old white dudes duking it out for control of the country. I like it and I hate it because the better candidates all have no chance, but I think Biden thumps Trump in a general. Not even close.mcgruff10 said:Good news!"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
You don’t think Biden has a solid resume?Spiritual_Chaos said:
You are wrong. He is a known entity. But he could be gone after the first debate.mcgruff10 said:
Agreed however his resume is pretty damn impressive.tbergs said:
This would immediately make every other dem almost a non-factor besides Sanders. Back to the standard old white dudes duking it out for control of the country. I like it and I hate it because the better candidates all have no chance, but I think Biden thumps Trump in a general. Not even close.mcgruff10 said:Good news!I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
The kinda comment days later that makes you nothing more than the Fox News / National Enquirer of the board.Halifax2TheMax said:
Hey but don’t dare make an analogy about divorced dads.oftenreading said:Every time I hear this discussion I am once again floored by how judgemental people are about someone’s decision to stay in a marriage, and the assumptions people make about said marriage.hippiemom = goodness0 -
He does. And I know he lost twice before, but this time he has "Vice President to Obama" on his resume. That can't hurt. I don't know whether he'll win the nomination, but I think he'll stick around for a while.mcgruff10 said:
You don’t think Biden has a solid resume?Spiritual_Chaos said:
You are wrong. He is a known entity. But he could be gone after the first debate.mcgruff10 said:
Agreed however his resume is pretty damn impressive.tbergs said:
This would immediately make every other dem almost a non-factor besides Sanders. Back to the standard old white dudes duking it out for control of the country. I like it and I hate it because the better candidates all have no chance, but I think Biden thumps Trump in a general. Not even close.mcgruff10 said:Good news!1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine
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I don't agree that the rest will be a non-factor.mcgruff10 said:
You don’t think Biden has a solid resume?Spiritual_Chaos said:
You are wrong. He is a known entity. But he could be gone after the first debate.mcgruff10 said:
Agreed however his resume is pretty damn impressive.tbergs said:
This would immediately make every other dem almost a non-factor besides Sanders. Back to the standard old white dudes duking it out for control of the country. I like it and I hate it because the better candidates all have no chance, but I think Biden thumps Trump in a general. Not even close.mcgruff10 said:Good news!
He had a solid resume last time when he ran and lost.
Biden has the Obama legacy and a bigger name recognition then the rest right now. I don't think those factors will matter enough to make other dems "almost a non-factor" after the first debate and the newscycle following it."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Why would anyone want any woman to stay with Trump...tbergs said:
I don't recall your point of view on this, but do you assume the best of Melania for sticking with Trump? She gets ragged on all the time as well.oftenreading said:Every time I hear this discussion I am once again floored by how judgemental people are about someone’s decision to stay in a marriage, and the assumptions people make about said marriage."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
I understand. I definitely like Biden the most out of the democratic candidates so far.Spiritual_Chaos said:
I don't agree that the rest will be a non-factor.mcgruff10 said:
You don’t think Biden has a solid resume?Spiritual_Chaos said:
You are wrong. He is a known entity. But he could be gone after the first debate.mcgruff10 said:
Agreed however his resume is pretty damn impressive.tbergs said:
This would immediately make every other dem almost a non-factor besides Sanders. Back to the standard old white dudes duking it out for control of the country. I like it and I hate it because the better candidates all have no chance, but I think Biden thumps Trump in a general. Not even close.mcgruff10 said:Good news!
He had a solid resume last time when he ran and lost.
Biden has the Obama legacy and a bigger name recognition then the rest right now. I don't think those factors will matter enough to make other dems "almost a non-factor" after the first debate and the newscycle following it.I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
The kind of thread that makes me wonder if you would have started the thread if it was Melania commenting on Obama. Good to see that days later you’re still wringing your hands. Buck up buttercup, it’ll be okay.cincybearcat said:
The kinda comment days later that makes you nothing more than the Fox News / National Enquirer of the board.Halifax2TheMax said:
Hey but don’t dare make an analogy about divorced dads.oftenreading said:Every time I hear this discussion I am once again floored by how judgemental people are about someone’s decision to stay in a marriage, and the assumptions people make about said marriage.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
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Whatever, sisHalifax2TheMax said:
The kind of thread that makes me wonder if you would have started the thread if it was Melania commenting on Obama. Good to see that days later you’re still wringing your hands. Buck up buttercup, it’ll be okay.cincybearcat said:
The kinda comment days later that makes you nothing more than the Fox News / National Enquirer of the board.Halifax2TheMax said:
Hey but don’t dare make an analogy about divorced dads.oftenreading said:Every time I hear this discussion I am once again floored by how judgemental people are about someone’s decision to stay in a marriage, and the assumptions people make about said marriage.hippiemom = goodness0 -
How original, plagerist.cincybearcat said:
Whatever, sisHalifax2TheMax said:
The kind of thread that makes me wonder if you would have started the thread if it was Melania commenting on Obama. Good to see that days later you’re still wringing your hands. Buck up buttercup, it’ll be okay.cincybearcat said:
The kinda comment days later that makes you nothing more than the Fox News / National Enquirer of the board.Halifax2TheMax said:
Hey but don’t dare make an analogy about divorced dads.oftenreading said:Every time I hear this discussion I am once again floored by how judgemental people are about someone’s decision to stay in a marriage, and the assumptions people make about said marriage.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
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Her = mcgruffmcgruff10 said:
I understand. I definitely like Biden the most out of the democratic candidates so far.Spiritual_Chaos said:
I don't agree that the rest will be a non-factor.mcgruff10 said:
You don’t think Biden has a solid resume?Spiritual_Chaos said:
You are wrong. He is a known entity. But he could be gone after the first debate.mcgruff10 said:
Agreed however his resume is pretty damn impressive.tbergs said:
This would immediately make every other dem almost a non-factor besides Sanders. Back to the standard old white dudes duking it out for control of the country. I like it and I hate it because the better candidates all have no chance, but I think Biden thumps Trump in a general. Not even close.mcgruff10 said:Good news!
He had a solid resume last time when he ran and lost.
Biden has the Obama legacy and a bigger name recognition then the rest right now. I don't think those factors will matter enough to make other dems "almost a non-factor" after the first debate and the newscycle following it.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0
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someone commented on the lack of coverage for the women who have declared...here is one reason why that may be so..
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