Tax Reform

HesCalledDyer said:

Lowest refund of my adult life.  And that includes when I was 18 making $4.75/hr at a part time job.  And no, my paychecks didn't make up for it.  My net pay was a lower % of my gross pay in 2018 than 2017.  Where's my "cut"???  ("Just be glad you didn't owe" is not an acceptable answer.)

Gern Blansten said:

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cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I don't blame the Dems for using the "lower refund" attack.  It takes advantage of the same ignorance that the GOP has been exploiting for years

I do. I don’t think one side doing something crappy means it’s ok for you to do it. The “they did it first” argument doesn’t hold water for me much....sometimes I guess. I understand your opinion on this though, and it’s not a terrible offense. It does highlight how stupid people are and how the democrats want to win the stupid vote back! 

The argument isn't whether the middle class is paying more or less under this plan.  It's that the cut was overwhelmingly weighted towards the wealthy and the corporations.  And that point is indisputable.  The middle class got crumbs and many will pay more, especially those in states with state income taxes. 

You know I find this argument interesting.  Everyone wants a progressive scale for taxes.  And then when it comes to cuts they want it to be progressive again in the opposite direction.  I understand your opinion in this, but again it wasn;t what I was talking about.  I'm specifically talking about idiots that think just because their refund is lower that it automatically means they paid more in taxes.

Keep in mind that a lot of them are correct....many people are definitely paying more.

cincybearcat said:

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HesCalledDyer said:

Lowest refund of my adult life.  And that includes when I was 18 making $4.75/hr at a part time job.  And no, my paychecks didn't make up for it.  My net pay was a lower % of my gross pay in 2018 than 2017.  Where's my "cut"???  ("Just be glad you didn't owe" is not an acceptable answer.)

So how much more did you end up paying in taxes?  I haven't done them yet.  I had done some previous work on it and it looked like it would be a decent amount less. At least the first couple of years

CM189191 said:

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cincybearcat said:

CM189191 said:

cincybearcat said:

CM189191 said:

cincybearcat said:

pjhawks said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Suckers.

https://apple.news/AH7dBAMH9R1OQo-sAdUH0pA

and lots of middle class people are bitching already because their tax refunds are lower or even have to pay now.  yet so many thought this guy would help them. idiots.

You know - tax refund size is a really stupid way to determine if the tax laws have helped or hurt people.  It's only 1 piece of the equation.  

You're right!  Corporations got to buyback stocks.  While their primary shareholders saw their stock values go up bc they were less diluted.  So it had a doubling effect to hurt poor/middle class, while helping the rich get richer.

But I'm sure you have a perfectly cromulent explanation as to how there's very fine people on both sides here.

Ummm, that response had nothing to do with my comment.

To figure out if the new tax laws have helped or hurt you, you need to consider if you had additional "take home" pay each paycheck.  Just because your refund is reduced doesn;t mean you paid more taxes.  You may have gotten your $ sooner.  So, this needs a tiny bit deeper dive.  Could still mean people got less, not saying it doesn;t.  But alone it doesn't mean shit. 

I always feel bad for the idiot americans that think a big refund is great...they just gave the US government an interest free loan for a year and they are happy about it.  Dummies.

You know how I know you didn't read the article....?


Back in 2017, as the tax bill moved on the Hill, lawmakers claimed the cut they proposed in the corporate tax rate to 21 percent from 35 percent would trickle down to workers in the form of higher wages and bonuses. 

The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported nominal wages increased 3.2 percent in January year over year, and by less than one percent — three cents to $27.56 — month over month. 

Bonuses have registered less of an impact, increasing just 2 cents an hour in the first nine months of 2018.  The increase was "imperceptible," "Whatever growth in bonuses has taken place is not necessarily attributable to the tax cuts, rather than employer efforts to recruit workers in a continued low unemployment environment."

By all accounts, companies poured a hefty portion of the tax windfall into buying back shares, a move designed to at least temporarily boost stock prices, which benefits executives and other large stockholders. 


I feel bad for the idiot Americans who fell for the trickle down promise....again.  Dummies.  

I’m not talking about wage increase. Is this really that difficult for you to understand? 

The tax cuts were sold on wage increases and bonuses for everyone.  That didn't happen. 

Now you can talk about how you got your money sooner, and maybe people paid more or less.  But it was always sold as a way to boost wages, invest in workers salaries, handout bonuses, blahblahblah. 

In the end, it turned out to be what everyone said it was.  Shuffling around tax schedule for lower/middle class while making the rich richer.  

So go ahead, shift the goalposts.  Tell how wonderful it was to get fucked by the GOP again.

CM189191 said:

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cincybearcat said:

CM189191 said:

cincybearcat said:

CM189191 said:

cincybearcat said:

pjhawks said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Suckers.

https://apple.news/AH7dBAMH9R1OQo-sAdUH0pA

and lots of middle class people are bitching already because their tax refunds are lower or even have to pay now.  yet so many thought this guy would help them. idiots.

You know - tax refund size is a really stupid way to determine if the tax laws have helped or hurt people.  It's only 1 piece of the equation.  

You're right!  Corporations got to buyback stocks.  While their primary shareholders saw their stock values go up bc they were less diluted.  So it had a doubling effect to hurt poor/middle class, while helping the rich get richer.

But I'm sure you have a perfectly cromulent explanation as to how there's very fine people on both sides here.

Ummm, that response had nothing to do with my comment.

To figure out if the new tax laws have helped or hurt you, you need to consider if you had additional "take home" pay each paycheck.  Just because your refund is reduced doesn;t mean you paid more taxes.  You may have gotten your $ sooner.  So, this needs a tiny bit deeper dive.  Could still mean people got less, not saying it doesn;t.  But alone it doesn't mean shit. 

I always feel bad for the idiot americans that think a big refund is great...they just gave the US government an interest free loan for a year and they are happy about it.  Dummies.

You know how I know you didn't read the article....?


Back in 2017, as the tax bill moved on the Hill, lawmakers claimed the cut they proposed in the corporate tax rate to 21 percent from 35 percent would trickle down to workers in the form of higher wages and bonuses. 

The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported nominal wages increased 3.2 percent in January year over year, and by less than one percent — three cents to $27.56 — month over month. 

Bonuses have registered less of an impact, increasing just 2 cents an hour in the first nine months of 2018.  The increase was "imperceptible," "Whatever growth in bonuses has taken place is not necessarily attributable to the tax cuts, rather than employer efforts to recruit workers in a continued low unemployment environment."

By all accounts, companies poured a hefty portion of the tax windfall into buying back shares, a move designed to at least temporarily boost stock prices, which benefits executives and other large stockholders. 


I feel bad for the idiot Americans who fell for the trickle down promise....again.  Dummies.  

I’m not talking about wage increase. Is this really that difficult for you to understand? 

The tax cuts were sold on wage increases and bonuses for everyone.  That didn't happen. 

Now you can talk about how you got your money sooner, and maybe people paid more or less.  But it was always sold as a way to boost wages, invest in workers salaries, handout bonuses, blahblahblah. 

In the end, it turned out to be what everyone said it was.  Shuffling around tax schedule for lower/middle class while making the rich richer.  

So go ahead, shift the goalposts.  Tell how wonderful it was to get fucked by the GOP again.

Gern Blansten said:

And we still haven't seen tRump's tax returns....let's imagine the outrage if Obama refused to show his returns and how he may have benefited from the new tax law.

PJ_Soul said:

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mrussel1 said:

CM189191 said:

cincybearcat said:

CM189191 said:

cincybearcat said:

CM189191 said:

cincybearcat said:

pjhawks said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Suckers.

https://apple.news/AH7dBAMH9R1OQo-sAdUH0pA

and lots of middle class people are bitching already because their tax refunds are lower or even have to pay now.  yet so many thought this guy would help them. idiots.

You know - tax refund size is a really stupid way to determine if the tax laws have helped or hurt people.  It's only 1 piece of the equation.  

You're right!  Corporations got to buyback stocks.  While their primary shareholders saw their stock values go up bc they were less diluted.  So it had a doubling effect to hurt poor/middle class, while helping the rich get richer.

But I'm sure you have a perfectly cromulent explanation as to how there's very fine people on both sides here.

Ummm, that response had nothing to do with my comment.

To figure out if the new tax laws have helped or hurt you, you need to consider if you had additional "take home" pay each paycheck.  Just because your refund is reduced doesn;t mean you paid more taxes.  You may have gotten your $ sooner.  So, this needs a tiny bit deeper dive.  Could still mean people got less, not saying it doesn;t.  But alone it doesn't mean shit. 

I always feel bad for the idiot americans that think a big refund is great...they just gave the US government an interest free loan for a year and they are happy about it.  Dummies.

You know how I know you didn't read the article....?


Back in 2017, as the tax bill moved on the Hill, lawmakers claimed the cut they proposed in the corporate tax rate to 21 percent from 35 percent would trickle down to workers in the form of higher wages and bonuses. 

The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported nominal wages increased 3.2 percent in January year over year, and by less than one percent — three cents to $27.56 — month over month. 

Bonuses have registered less of an impact, increasing just 2 cents an hour in the first nine months of 2018.  The increase was "imperceptible," "Whatever growth in bonuses has taken place is not necessarily attributable to the tax cuts, rather than employer efforts to recruit workers in a continued low unemployment environment."

By all accounts, companies poured a hefty portion of the tax windfall into buying back shares, a move designed to at least temporarily boost stock prices, which benefits executives and other large stockholders. 


I feel bad for the idiot Americans who fell for the trickle down promise....again.  Dummies.  

I’m not talking about wage increase. Is this really that difficult for you to understand? 

The tax cuts were sold on wage increases and bonuses for everyone.  That didn't happen. 

Now you can talk about how you got your money sooner, and maybe people paid more or less.  But it was always sold as a way to boost wages, invest in workers salaries, handout bonuses, blahblahblah. 

In the end, it turned out to be what everyone said it was.  Shuffling around tax schedule for lower/middle class while making the rich richer.  

So go ahead, shift the goalposts.  Tell how wonderful it was to get fucked by the GOP again.

Yes, you're absolutely correct.  The corporate tax cut would lead to jobs for the unemployed and raises for the employees.  For a few days there were stories about a business or two giving bonuses,  but those turned out to be small potatoes and fizzled out quickly.  Meanwhile,  stock buybacks and equity cash outs exploded. 

I wonder how long it will take republican voters to finally realize that the trickle down theory is complete garbage? It's been a consistent ploy by the GOP since Reagan, has never panned out and only proved itself to hurt people, and conservative voters just keep on believing it will work for some reason. They even act as though it's pure common sense. Isn't that the definition of insanity?

mrussel1 said:

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Halifax2TheMax said:

4 Trillion coming back to the US? Suckers.

https://apple.news/AXEe9rYZvSKe4Cmq1a9d0pw

Great find on the article, I hadn't heard this.  Also, the fact that more was spent on stock buy backs than capex is crazy.