Donald Trump

HughFreakingDillon said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things". 

if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again. 

we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves. 

I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future generations don't learn it from their parents and the media. 

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse. 

I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero. 

I never said our side gets a pass. It’s a false equivalence and our side holds ours more accountable. When the other side does the same, catches up to us, then we can discuss eliminating the toxicity in the body politic. And they can start by holding Team Trump Treason accountable to common decency. Maybe start there?

I look forward to when Team Trump Treason is charged with high crimes and misdemeanors and the repubs shrug their shoulders and some on here say dems need to behave themselves and follow the rule of law.

these are what I'm talking about. 

yeah, dems really should behave themselves and follow the rule of law. what you just stated there is indeed inferring they'd get a pass if they didn't. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things". 

if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again. 

we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves. 

I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future generations don't learn it from their parents and the media. 

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse. 

I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero. 

I actually think he's making a good argument against your assertion TBH. I think he's right. The Dems tend to actually hold most of those wrongdoers accountable, and the Reps don't.

that's really not what my point is. 

I was saying "you guys" because mrussel1 was a part of the conversation and you two seemed kind of teaming up with this one, haha - I was more referring to a point he made.

well you literally quoted me and said "he's making a good argument against your assertion". but ok. 

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things". 

if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again. 

we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves. 

I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future generations don't learn it from their parents and the media. 

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse. 

I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero. 

I never said our side gets a pass. It’s a false equivalence and our side holds ours more accountable. When the other side does the same, catches up to us, then we can discuss eliminating the toxicity in the body politic. And they can start by holding Team Trump Treason accountable to common decency. Maybe start there?

I look forward to when Team Trump Treason is charged with high crimes and misdemeanors and the repubs shrug their shoulders and some on here say dems need to behave themselves and follow the rule of law.

The only way you can try to hold Republicans accountable for their deplorable acts is by acting aggressively to take care of your own house.  Look at this week, Trump got to go on TV and say "Democrats are the party of anti-Semitism".  Why?  Because of Omar's tweets and all of the debate in the House after the fact.  It gave him an opening and he exploited it because the caucus was split.  First, she should keep her twitter fingers locked up, but when she says something like that, the Democrats must act swiftly or lose the moral high ground.  Keeping our house clean is the most important thing right now.  And I still have no issue with French because he has criticized PEOPLE, not parties.  That's the key.  

Speaker Pelosi brought a resolution to the floor and the dems voted for it. Lynn Cheney voted against it. Where's Team Trump Treason calling her out for being a party to hatred and bigotry? And, had Representative Omar made that tweet in reference to any other country, say Kenya or Saudi Arabia, would there have been the outrage?

“Rep. Omar’s comments were wrong and she has proven multiple times that she embodies a vile, hate-filled, anti-Semitic, anti-Israel bigotry. She deserves to be rebuked, by name, and removed from the House Foreign Affairs Committee so that there is no mistake about the values and priorities that the House stands for,” she said.

“For Democratic leadership to kowtow to their radical members and refuse to offer legislative language that criticizes Rep. Omar’s statements in the strongest possible manner confirms what we already knew: that their party is controlled by far-left extremists who can’t even muster the courage to stand up to blatant anti-Semitism."

So that's precisely the opening that Omar gave when she tweeted, and the point of my criticism.  If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet.  That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue.  Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart.  I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see. 

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things". 

if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again. 

we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves. 

I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future generations don't learn it from their parents and the media. 

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse. 

I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero. 

I never said our side gets a pass. It’s a false equivalence and our side holds ours more accountable. When the other side does the same, catches up to us, then we can discuss eliminating the toxicity in the body politic. And they can start by holding Team Trump Treason accountable to common decency. Maybe start there?

I look forward to when Team Trump Treason is charged with high crimes and misdemeanors and the repubs shrug their shoulders and some on here say dems need to behave themselves and follow the rule of law.

The only way you can try to hold Republicans accountable for their deplorable acts is by acting aggressively to take care of your own house.  Look at this week, Trump got to go on TV and say "Democrats are the party of anti-Semitism".  Why?  Because of Omar's tweets and all of the debate in the House after the fact.  It gave him an opening and he exploited it because the caucus was split.  First, she should keep her twitter fingers locked up, but when she says something like that, the Democrats must act swiftly or lose the moral high ground.  Keeping our house clean is the most important thing right now.  And I still have no issue with French because he has criticized PEOPLE, not parties.  That's the key.  

Speaker Pelosi brought a resolution to the floor and the dems voted for it. Lynn Cheney voted against it. Where's Team Trump Treason calling her out for being a party to hatred and bigotry? And, had Representative Omar made that tweet in reference to any other country, say Kenya or Saudi Arabia, would there have been the outrage?

"Cheney — a member of leadership, who currently serves as the House Republican Conference chair — said that while she stands “wholeheartedly against discrimination outlined in this resolution,” she felt it failed to address the “issue that is front and center.”

“Rep. Omar’s comments were wrong and she has proven multiple times that she embodies a vile, hate-filled, anti-Semitic, anti-Israel bigotry. She deserves to be rebuked, by name, and removed from the House Foreign Affairs Committee so that there is no mistake about the values and priorities that the House stands for,” she said.

“For Democratic leadership to kowtow to their radical members and refuse to offer legislative language that criticizes Rep. Omar’s statements in the strongest possible manner confirms what we already knew: that their party is controlled by far-left extremists who can’t even muster the courage to stand up to blatant anti-Semitism."

So that's precisely the opening that Omar gave when she tweeted, and the point of my criticism.  If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet.  That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue.  Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart.  I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see. 

Except, equating Israel and Saudi Arabia, as it relates to “its all about the Benjamin’s” is a false equivalence. And there’s no islamaphobia from the current administration, right? I know, tit for tat or two wrongs don’t make a right. And maybe, just maybe, if repubs spoke out a little more forcefully and didn’t back the Muslim ban, I’d take their criticism of Omar a little more seriously. See how that works?
 

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

You are completely missing the point, or just don't want to acknowledge it.  No one is saying the Dems are as 'bad' as Republicans in this sense.  But there are humans on both sides of the aisle that are terrible, terrible people.  If you want me to name some on the liberal side, it would be pretty easy.  Plus, liberal groups have picked up on the right wing strategy of publishing lies on memes and on facebook.  Just last week there was the fake Trump report card.  It got outed pretty quickly, but it's the same bullshit that right wingers post.  We all laugh about it, but I guarantee there are lots of people who believe it to be true. 

Yes, please name the terrible, terrible people on the “liberal side.” And how do you know that the false report card was posted by “liberal groups?” I suggest you read the intelligence report regarding troll farms and sowing seeds of discord. The difference I see is that we hold our side more accountable and when I say our side, I’m referring to the dem Establishment. We shout ours down and are more critical of our leadership, less likely to walk in lockstep, to issue retractions and god forbid, apologize. And when we do, we’re painted as weak, feminine, etc., etc. Maybe you don’t see that?

Harvey Weinstein, Justin Smollett, Kevin Spacey, Gov. Northam, Lt Gov, Justin Fairfax, Ilhan Omar, Bob Menendez, Keith Ellison...

Now you're going to name a bunch of right wingers, but that's not the point.  Of course you can.  And yes, I know the troll farms hit both sides, but our side is taken by them too.  People forward that bullshit on to me, and it's as easy to pick apart as the right wing bs.  It's teh same damn thing.  

In what world is Ilhan Omar a terrible, terrible person?

Good question.

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things". 

if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again. 

we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves. 

I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future generations don't learn it from their parents and the media. 

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse. 

I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero. 

I never said our side gets a pass. It’s a false equivalence and our side holds ours more accountable. When the other side does the same, catches up to us, then we can discuss eliminating the toxicity in the body politic. And they can start by holding Team Trump Treason accountable to common decency. Maybe start there?

I look forward to when Team Trump Treason is charged with high crimes and misdemeanors and the repubs shrug their shoulders and some on here say dems need to behave themselves and follow the rule of law.

The only way you can try to hold Republicans accountable for their deplorable acts is by acting aggressively to take care of your own house.  Look at this week, Trump got to go on TV and say "Democrats are the party of anti-Semitism".  Why?  Because of Omar's tweets and all of the debate in the House after the fact.  It gave him an opening and he exploited it because the caucus was split.  First, she should keep her twitter fingers locked up, but when she says something like that, the Democrats must act swiftly or lose the moral high ground.  Keeping our house clean is the most important thing right now.  And I still have no issue with French because he has criticized PEOPLE, not parties.  That's the key.  

Speaker Pelosi brought a resolution to the floor and the dems voted for it. Lynn Cheney voted against it. Where's Team Trump Treason calling her out for being a party to hatred and bigotry? And, had Representative Omar made that tweet in reference to any other country, say Kenya or Saudi Arabia, would there have been the outrage?

"Cheney — a member of leadership, who currently serves as the House Republican Conference chair — said that while she stands “wholeheartedly against discrimination outlined in this resolution,” she felt it failed to address the “issue that is front and center.”

“Rep. Omar’s comments were wrong and she has proven multiple times that she embodies a vile, hate-filled, anti-Semitic, anti-Israel bigotry. She deserves to be rebuked, by name, and removed from the House Foreign Affairs Committee so that there is no mistake about the values and priorities that the House stands for,” she said.

“For Democratic leadership to kowtow to their radical members and refuse to offer legislative language that criticizes Rep. Omar’s statements in the strongest possible manner confirms what we already knew: that their party is controlled by far-left extremists who can’t even muster the courage to stand up to blatant anti-Semitism."

So that's precisely the opening that Omar gave when she tweeted, and the point of my criticism.  If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet.  That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue.  Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart.  I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see. 

Except, equating Israel and Saudi Arabia, as it relates to “its all about the Benjamin’s” is a false equivalence. And there’s no islamaphobia from the current administration, right? I know, tit for tat or two wrongs don’t make a right. And maybe, just maybe, if repubs spoke out a little more forcefully and didn’t back the Muslim ban, I’d take their criticism of Omar a little more seriously. See how that works?
 

No, I don't see how that works.  It doesn't work. Because her statement was wrong and stupid.  And it put Democrats in a position to rebuke her and allowed Trump to go on the attack.  Remember, there are several Jewish Democrats that were really pissed about it, not just because it opened up Trump but because they saw it as a trope.  Use your moral compass, not your political one.  

Criticism of Israel or US policy toward Israel does not necessarily mean you’re ( in the general sense) an anti-Semite or anti-Semitic.

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things". 

if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again. 

we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves. 

I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future generations don't learn it from their parents and the media. 

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse. 

I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero. 

I never said our side gets a pass. It’s a false equivalence and our side holds ours more accountable. When the other side does the same, catches up to us, then we can discuss eliminating the toxicity in the body politic. And they can start by holding Team Trump Treason accountable to common decency. Maybe start there?

I look forward to when Team Trump Treason is charged with high crimes and misdemeanors and the repubs shrug their shoulders and some on here say dems need to behave themselves and follow the rule of law.

The only way you can try to hold Republicans accountable for their deplorable acts is by acting aggressively to take care of your own house.  Look at this week, Trump got to go on TV and say "Democrats are the party of anti-Semitism".  Why?  Because of Omar's tweets and all of the debate in the House after the fact.  It gave him an opening and he exploited it because the caucus was split.  First, she should keep her twitter fingers locked up, but when she says something like that, the Democrats must act swiftly or lose the moral high ground.  Keeping our house clean is the most important thing right now.  And I still have no issue with French because he has criticized PEOPLE, not parties.  That's the key.  

Speaker Pelosi brought a resolution to the floor and the dems voted for it. Lynn Cheney voted against it. Where's Team Trump Treason calling her out for being a party to hatred and bigotry? And, had Representative Omar made that tweet in reference to any other country, say Kenya or Saudi Arabia, would there have been the outrage?

"Cheney — a member of leadership, who currently serves as the House Republican Conference chair — said that while she stands “wholeheartedly against discrimination outlined in this resolution,” she felt it failed to address the “issue that is front and center.”

“Rep. Omar’s comments were wrong and she has proven multiple times that she embodies a vile, hate-filled, anti-Semitic, anti-Israel bigotry. She deserves to be rebuked, by name, and removed from the House Foreign Affairs Committee so that there is no mistake about the values and priorities that the House stands for,” she said.

“For Democratic leadership to kowtow to their radical members and refuse to offer legislative language that criticizes Rep. Omar’s statements in the strongest possible manner confirms what we already knew: that their party is controlled by far-left extremists who can’t even muster the courage to stand up to blatant anti-Semitism."

So that's precisely the opening that Omar gave when she tweeted, and the point of my criticism.  If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet.  That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue.  Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart.  I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see. 

Except, equating Israel and Saudi Arabia, as it relates to “its all about the Benjamin’s” is a false equivalence. And there’s no islamaphobia from the current administration, right? I know, tit for tat or two wrongs don’t make a right. And maybe, just maybe, if repubs spoke out a little more forcefully and didn’t back the Muslim ban, I’d take their criticism of Omar a little more seriously. See how that works?
 

No, I don't see how that works.  It doesn't work. Because her statement was wrong and stupid.  And it put Democrats in a position to rebuke her and allowed Trump to go on the attack.  Remember, there are several Jewish Democrats that were really pissed about it, not just because it opened up Trump but because they saw it as a trope.  Use your moral compass, not your political one.  

Criticism of Israel or US policy toward Israel does not necessarily mean you’re ( in the general sense) an anti-Semite or anti-Semitic.

Yes I agree.  And I literally addressed that two posts ago.. I'll quote myself..
If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet.  That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue.  Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart.  I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see. 

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things". 

if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again. 

we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves. 

I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future generations don't learn it from their parents and the media. 

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse. 

I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero. 

I never said our side gets a pass. It’s a false equivalence and our side holds ours more accountable. When the other side does the same, catches up to us, then we can discuss eliminating the toxicity in the body politic. And they can start by holding Team Trump Treason accountable to common decency. Maybe start there?

I look forward to when Team Trump Treason is charged with high crimes and misdemeanors and the repubs shrug their shoulders and some on here say dems need to behave themselves and follow the rule of law.

The only way you can try to hold Republicans accountable for their deplorable acts is by acting aggressively to take care of your own house.  Look at this week, Trump got to go on TV and say "Democrats are the party of anti-Semitism".  Why?  Because of Omar's tweets and all of the debate in the House after the fact.  It gave him an opening and he exploited it because the caucus was split.  First, she should keep her twitter fingers locked up, but when she says something like that, the Democrats must act swiftly or lose the moral high ground.  Keeping our house clean is the most important thing right now.  And I still have no issue with French because he has criticized PEOPLE, not parties.  That's the key.  

Speaker Pelosi brought a resolution to the floor and the dems voted for it. Lynn Cheney voted against it. Where's Team Trump Treason calling her out for being a party to hatred and bigotry? And, had Representative Omar made that tweet in reference to any other country, say Kenya or Saudi Arabia, would there have been the outrage?

"Cheney — a member of leadership, who currently serves as the House Republican Conference chair — said that while she stands “wholeheartedly against discrimination outlined in this resolution,” she felt it failed to address the “issue that is front and center.”

“Rep. Omar’s comments were wrong and she has proven multiple times that she embodies a vile, hate-filled, anti-Semitic, anti-Israel bigotry. She deserves to be rebuked, by name, and removed from the House Foreign Affairs Committee so that there is no mistake about the values and priorities that the House stands for,” she said.

“For Democratic leadership to kowtow to their radical members and refuse to offer legislative language that criticizes Rep. Omar’s statements in the strongest possible manner confirms what we already knew: that their party is controlled by far-left extremists who can’t even muster the courage to stand up to blatant anti-Semitism."

So that's precisely the opening that Omar gave when she tweeted, and the point of my criticism.  If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet.  That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue.  Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart.  I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see. 

Except, equating Israel and Saudi Arabia, as it relates to “its all about the Benjamin’s” is a false equivalence. And there’s no islamaphobia from the current administration, right? I know, tit for tat or two wrongs don’t make a right. And maybe, just maybe, if repubs spoke out a little more forcefully and didn’t back the Muslim ban, I’d take their criticism of Omar a little more seriously. See how that works?
 

No, I don't see how that works.  It doesn't work. Because her statement was wrong and stupid.  And it put Democrats in a position to rebuke her and allowed Trump to go on the attack.  Remember, there are several Jewish Democrats that were really pissed about it, not just because it opened up Trump but because they saw it as a trope.  Use your moral compass, not your political one.  

Criticism of Israel or US policy toward Israel does not necessarily mean you’re ( in the general sense) an anti-Semite or anti-Semitic.

Yes I agree.  And I literally addressed that two posts ago.. I'll quote myself..
If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet.  That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue.  Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart.  I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see. 

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

You are completely missing the point, or just don't want to acknowledge it.  No one is saying the Dems are as 'bad' as Republicans in this sense.  But there are humans on both sides of the aisle that are terrible, terrible people.  If you want me to name some on the liberal side, it would be pretty easy.  Plus, liberal groups have picked up on the right wing strategy of publishing lies on memes and on facebook.  Just last week there was the fake Trump report card.  It got outed pretty quickly, but it's the same bullshit that right wingers post.  We all laugh about it, but I guarantee there are lots of people who believe it to be true. 

Yes, please name the terrible, terrible people on the “liberal side.” And how do you know that the false report card was posted by “liberal groups?” I suggest you read the intelligence report regarding troll farms and sowing seeds of discord. The difference I see is that we hold our side more accountable and when I say our side, I’m referring to the dem Establishment. We shout ours down and are more critical of our leadership, less likely to walk in lockstep, to issue retractions and god forbid, apologize. And when we do, we’re painted as weak, feminine, etc., etc. Maybe you don’t see that?

Harvey Weinstein, Justin Smollett, Kevin Spacey, Gov. Northam, Lt Gov, Justin Fairfax, Ilhan Omar, Bob Menendez, Keith Ellison...

Now you're going to name a bunch of right wingers, but that's not the point.  Of course you can.  And yes, I know the troll farms hit both sides, but our side is taken by them too.  People forward that bullshit on to me, and it's as easy to pick apart as the right wing bs.  It's teh same damn thing.  

In what world is Ilhan Omar a terrible, terrible person?

Good question.

I don't know if she's a terrible person.  If she is anti-Semitic, then she is.  An anti-Semite is terrible whether she is a progressive or not.  Steve King is a terrible person, right?  If they hold the same views on Jews, wouldn't that make them equivalently terrible?

I've never seen anything that would make me think she's anti-Semitic. I think that accusation is completely baseless and disgusting actually.

ok, except for the trope.  Which led to a resolution condemning hate in the House because her own colleagues were outraged.  Other than that.. yeah disgusting.  

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

You are completely missing the point, or just don't want to acknowledge it.  No one is saying the Dems are as 'bad' as Republicans in this sense.  But there are humans on both sides of the aisle that are terrible, terrible people.  If you want me to name some on the liberal side, it would be pretty easy.  Plus, liberal groups have picked up on the right wing strategy of publishing lies on memes and on facebook.  Just last week there was the fake Trump report card.  It got outed pretty quickly, but it's the same bullshit that right wingers post.  We all laugh about it, but I guarantee there are lots of people who believe it to be true. 

Yes, please name the terrible, terrible people on the “liberal side.” And how do you know that the false report card was posted by “liberal groups?” I suggest you read the intelligence report regarding troll farms and sowing seeds of discord. The difference I see is that we hold our side more accountable and when I say our side, I’m referring to the dem Establishment. We shout ours down and are more critical of our leadership, less likely to walk in lockstep, to issue retractions and god forbid, apologize. And when we do, we’re painted as weak, feminine, etc., etc. Maybe you don’t see that?

Harvey Weinstein, Justin Smollett, Kevin Spacey, Gov. Northam, Lt Gov, Justin Fairfax, Ilhan Omar, Bob Menendez, Keith Ellison...

Now you're going to name a bunch of right wingers, but that's not the point.  Of course you can.  And yes, I know the troll farms hit both sides, but our side is taken by them too.  People forward that bullshit on to me, and it's as easy to pick apart as the right wing bs.  It's teh same damn thing.  

In what world is Ilhan Omar a terrible, terrible person?

Good question.

I don't know if she's a terrible person.  If she is anti-Semitic, then she is.  An anti-Semite is terrible whether she is a progressive or not.  Steve King is a terrible person, right?  If they hold the same views on Jews, wouldn't that make them equivalently terrible?

I've never seen anything that would make me think she's anti-Semitic. I think that accusation is completely baseless and disgusting actually.

ok, except for the trope.  Which led to a resolution condemning hate in the House because her own colleagues were outraged.  Other than that.. yeah disgusting.  

Yeah, I thought that it led to that resolution was gross too. Her colleagues did the wrong thing IMO.

Well that's just the thing I was talking about... we cover for our team.  We don't see the inherent issue when it's us, but we see it when it's that team over there.  "She's a good person because she agrees with me politically" is the mindset.  But if someone is a conservative, then we see the nefarious undertones.