Leaving Neverland

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Comments

  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 17,016
    Gern Blansten said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    Anyone watching this?  Pretty amazing stuff.
    Do you believe any of it?
    I sure do. Why wouldn't you? We've known for like 20 years that Jackson was likely a child molester. And these guys have enough proof of being with Jackson on stage, backstage, and at his ranch. Hell, they even have faxes and video birthday wish videos (or "congratulations" videos as Jackson says in it that he doesn't believe in birthdays). Also, it was produced by Oprah, who I doubt would sensationalize the story and make the "beloved" Michael Jackson look worse in death than he looked in life (which was already pretty damn bad) if she didn't believe the victims. 

    Watching this, I can't believe people back in the 90's weren't worried when they saw a 33-year-old man walking around holding hands with 9-year-old boys. Maybe people were trying not to be cynical and just thought "No way Michael Jackson would be molesting that kid."  I'm not a fan of how cynical our society has become, but nowadays, the moment he was seen holding a boy's hand, he'd be the subject of ridicule and criticism, and that would have been a good thing.  
    I think they did.  It's like the R Kelly stuff....he's been accused of abusing women for years and it just finally came down on him.

    When MJ was first sued the shit hit the fan.
    It's a shame he died before he could face music like R. Kelly is. As disturbing as the graphic sexual abuse was, nearly as disturbing was Jackson's way of manipulating the kids to think they're families were bad for them and he was good. What a fucking psycho. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,663
    edited March 2019
    Will have to watch this documentary tonight after work.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Gern Blansten said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Gern Blansten said:
    curmudgeoness said:
    I'm not sure why this is making waves now, when it's all been out there forever and nobody cared. Then again, stories about Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby were out there forever, and people kept looking the other way, so --

    Too many people are willing to look away if the accused is famous enough, powerful enough, puts enough butts in seats. So, no, I'm not watching because I know it will just make me angry.
    I'm not sure that we heard from the victims as directly as this....I could be wrong.

    Interesting that Mac Culkin still denies any sexual assault.  My guess is that he just doesn't want to admit it.
    What's interesting? Maybe it's just this easy: Mac Culkin denies any sexual assault because he was never a victim of sexual assault.
    Possibly...As someone else mentioned, it is possible that MJ "friended" celebrities like Culkin and Cory Feldman and didn't molest them...knowing that they could be his "proof" that he might later need.

    Or....he did molest them and they just don't want to admit it.
    If the bolded part is true, then there might be people still alive that were close to jacko the wacko that devised that plan.  Because I doubt that fool was intelligent enough to devise a plan like that.  
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • CROJAM95
    CROJAM95 NEW YORK Posts: 11,201
    Like I heard someone say recently

    all sexual assault ALLEGATIONS should be taken seriously, not ALL  neccesarily believed

    in such a high profile case like this, I’m sure 60,70% of the accusers are telling the truth and the others are trying to make money

    if I had to guess on MJ, I’d say yes he’s a pedophile....but there is that tiny part of my brain that says he was just some weird, eccentric guy who grew up in such an environment that normal adults can’t understand him and his behavior no matter what.


  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,931
    Gern Blansten said:
    I'm curious if this documentary will cause others to come forward.
    I am curious of this as well.
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,958
    edited March 2019
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    How does one support a dead person? You mean they denied the accusations?
    I am a huge fan of MJ's earlier music. That music played a MASSIVE role in my life as a music fan, from the time when I was a very young child. I think if it weren't for his music, I may not have lived my life as into music as I have, and that is a really big part of who I am. That will never change, no matter what MJ did or didn't do. I don't defend him - I have no clue what the truth is, but whatever the truth is... that's what it is. I have no probs with that. But I'll still always have his music and influence as a part of who I am - that is how influential Off The Wall and Thriller were in my childhood (and Bad, to a lesser extent). I can't wipe that out just because he may have been a pedophile.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • MayDay10
    MayDay10 Posts: 11,899
    I agree.  I think you can separate the art from the person, and you arent morally less if you do so.  
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,965
    PJ_Soul said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    How does one support a dead person? You mean they denied the accusations?
    I am a huge fan of MJ's earlier music. That music played a MASSIVE role in my life as a music fan, from the time when I was a very young child. I think if it weren't for his music, I may not have lived my life as into music as I have, and that is a really big part of who I am. That will never change, no matter what MJ did or didn't do. I don't defend him - I have no clue what the truth is, but whatever the truth is... that's what it is. I have no probs with that. But I'll still always have his music and influence as a part of who I am - that is how influential Off The Wall and Thriller were in my childhood (and Bad, to a lesser extent). I can't wipe that out just because he may have been a pedophile.
    Yes, she did not believe he was what I believed he was - an obvious kiddie raper.
    I suppose you could support a dead person by listening to their music, buying their stuff, etc...and that support could carry to their heirs...but I am not sure how else.

    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,958
    F Me In The Brain said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    How does one support a dead person? You mean they denied the accusations?
    I am a huge fan of MJ's earlier music. That music played a MASSIVE role in my life as a music fan, from the time when I was a very young child. I think if it weren't for his music, I may not have lived my life as into music as I have, and that is a really big part of who I am. That will never change, no matter what MJ did or didn't do. I don't defend him - I have no clue what the truth is, but whatever the truth is... that's what it is. I have no probs with that. But I'll still always have his music and influence as a part of who I am - that is how influential Off The Wall and Thriller were in my childhood (and Bad, to a lesser extent). I can't wipe that out just because he may have been a pedophile.
    Yes, she did not believe he was what I believed he was - an obvious kiddie raper.
    I suppose you could support a dead person by listening to their music, buying their stuff, etc...and that support could carry to their heirs...but I am not sure how else.

    I don't know... If so, I guess I support MJ by listening??? I still spin his first 3 albums regularly, all of which are original pressings. But there is nothing for me to spend money on.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,965
    PJ_Soul said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    How does one support a dead person? You mean they denied the accusations?
    I am a huge fan of MJ's earlier music. That music played a MASSIVE role in my life as a music fan, from the time when I was a very young child. I think if it weren't for his music, I may not have lived my life as into music as I have, and that is a really big part of who I am. That will never change, no matter what MJ did or didn't do. I don't defend him - I have no clue what the truth is, but whatever the truth is... that's what it is. I have no probs with that. But I'll still always have his music and influence as a part of who I am - that is how influential Off The Wall and Thriller were in my childhood (and Bad, to a lesser extent). I can't wipe that out just because he may have been a pedophile.
    Yes, she did not believe he was what I believed he was - an obvious kiddie raper.
    I suppose you could support a dead person by listening to their music, buying their stuff, etc...and that support could carry to their heirs...but I am not sure how else.

    I don't know... If so, I guess I support MJ by listening??? I still spin his first 3 albums regularly, all of which are original pressings. But there is nothing for me to spend money on.
    I don't know.  I guess you have them and are just listening to the music so no difference is made.  If you separate the man from the music then I don't think there is anything to note there,
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,663
    Doesn't seem to be available on HBO NORDIC :(
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,663
    edited March 2019
    PJ_Soul said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    How does one support a dead person? You mean they denied the accusations?
    I am a huge fan of MJ's earlier music. That music played a MASSIVE role in my life as a music fan, from the time when I was a very young child. I think if it weren't for his music, I may not have lived my life as into music as I have, and that is a really big part of who I am. That will never change, no matter what MJ did or didn't do. I don't defend him - I have no clue what the truth is, but whatever the truth is... that's what it is. I have no probs with that. But I'll still always have his music and influence as a part of who I am - that is how influential Off The Wall and Thriller were in my childhood (and Bad, to a lesser extent). I can't wipe that out just because he may have been a pedophile.
    You mean "sexual abuser". Not "pedophile". Being a pedophile means nothing more than being one of the unlucky ones being stuck with a certain sexual disorder. I understand people use the term loosely and in a context of criminal activity, but anyways.

    The documentary doesn't seem to be available on swedish television untill 10th of mars. Boring! 
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,663
    And don't have Netflix anymore so can't see the R Kelly one. 

    Guess I'll youtube pearl jam the rest of the evening.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    How does one support a dead person? You mean they denied the accusations?
    I am a huge fan of MJ's earlier music. That music played a MASSIVE role in my life as a music fan, from the time when I was a very young child. I think if it weren't for his music, I may not have lived my life as into music as I have, and that is a really big part of who I am. That will never change, no matter what MJ did or didn't do. I don't defend him - I have no clue what the truth is, but whatever the truth is... that's what it is. I have no probs with that. But I'll still always have his music and influence as a part of who I am - that is how influential Off The Wall and Thriller were in my childhood (and Bad, to a lesser extent). I can't wipe that out just because he may have been a pedophile.
    You mean "sexual abuser". Not "pedophile". Being a pedophile means nothing more than being one of the unlucky ones being stuck with a certain sexual disorder. I understand people use the term loosely and in a context of criminal activity, but anyways.

    The documentary doesn't seem to be available on swedish television untill 10th of mars. Boring! 
    Actually, that’s a good point. Lots of people who sexually abuse kids don’t have pedophilia, and from the limited evidence available, lots of people with pedophia never abuse children.  
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Poncier
    Poncier Posts: 18,062
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    How does one support a dead person? You mean they denied the accusations?
    I am a huge fan of MJ's earlier music. That music played a MASSIVE role in my life as a music fan, from the time when I was a very young child. I think if it weren't for his music, I may not have lived my life as into music as I have, and that is a really big part of who I am. That will never change, no matter what MJ did or didn't do. I don't defend him - I have no clue what the truth is, but whatever the truth is... that's what it is. I have no probs with that. But I'll still always have his music and influence as a part of who I am - that is how influential Off The Wall and Thriller were in my childhood (and Bad, to a lesser extent). I can't wipe that out just because he may have been a pedophile.
    You mean "sexual abuser". Not "pedophile". Being a pedophile means nothing more than being one of the unlucky ones being stuck with a certain sexual disorder. 
    What the hell?
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,958
    Poncier said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    How does one support a dead person? You mean they denied the accusations?
    I am a huge fan of MJ's earlier music. That music played a MASSIVE role in my life as a music fan, from the time when I was a very young child. I think if it weren't for his music, I may not have lived my life as into music as I have, and that is a really big part of who I am. That will never change, no matter what MJ did or didn't do. I don't defend him - I have no clue what the truth is, but whatever the truth is... that's what it is. I have no probs with that. But I'll still always have his music and influence as a part of who I am - that is how influential Off The Wall and Thriller were in my childhood (and Bad, to a lesser extent). I can't wipe that out just because he may have been a pedophile.
    You mean "sexual abuser". Not "pedophile". Being a pedophile means nothing more than being one of the unlucky ones being stuck with a certain sexual disorder. 
    What the hell?
    No, it's true (but of course S_C knew what I meant). There are pedos who manage to resist ever abusing children. Obviously they are not the problem... although their potential to abuse kids still is.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,663
    edited March 2019
    Poncier said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    How does one support a dead person? You mean they denied the accusations?
    I am a huge fan of MJ's earlier music. That music played a MASSIVE role in my life as a music fan, from the time when I was a very young child. I think if it weren't for his music, I may not have lived my life as into music as I have, and that is a really big part of who I am. That will never change, no matter what MJ did or didn't do. I don't defend him - I have no clue what the truth is, but whatever the truth is... that's what it is. I have no probs with that. But I'll still always have his music and influence as a part of who I am - that is how influential Off The Wall and Thriller were in my childhood (and Bad, to a lesser extent). I can't wipe that out just because he may have been a pedophile.
    You mean "sexual abuser". Not "pedophile". Being a pedophile means nothing more than being one of the unlucky ones being stuck with a certain sexual disorder. 
    What the hell?
    What the hell what? Nothing I wrote was in any way wrong? Just clearing up the wrong use of and associations to a term.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,663
    edited March 2019
    PJ_Soul said:
    Poncier said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Jason P said:
    What's amazing is that someone today can tweet an accusation out of the blue today and the pitchforks, tar and feathers come out in full force demanding heads on pikes with little to no evidence.  But if you can dance and sing ....


    Agree.
    Everything about this just pisses me off.  I remember where I was at the time I heard he croaked and I knew the world was a much better place without this creeper.  The person I was with, a client, was a fan.  Yuck. 
    What has the client being fan to do with this story?
    That it was not a situation where I could call her out on supporting an obvious pederast.  Also, she is a good person - just was another one blinded by the "but if you can dance and sing" part that Jason P referenced.
    How does one support a dead person? You mean they denied the accusations?
    I am a huge fan of MJ's earlier music. That music played a MASSIVE role in my life as a music fan, from the time when I was a very young child. I think if it weren't for his music, I may not have lived my life as into music as I have, and that is a really big part of who I am. That will never change, no matter what MJ did or didn't do. I don't defend him - I have no clue what the truth is, but whatever the truth is... that's what it is. I have no probs with that. But I'll still always have his music and influence as a part of who I am - that is how influential Off The Wall and Thriller were in my childhood (and Bad, to a lesser extent). I can't wipe that out just because he may have been a pedophile.
    You mean "sexual abuser". Not "pedophile". Being a pedophile means nothing more than being one of the unlucky ones being stuck with a certain sexual disorder. 
    What the hell?
    No, it's true (but of course S_C knew what I meant). There are pedos who manage to resist ever abusing children. Obviously they are not the problem... although their potential to abuse kids still is.
    And associating the disorder (one can not help) with criminal and horrendous activity doesn't really help these people to seek help (if they feel they need it) because of the stigma/shame etc in society. 5% have this disorder. 

    So it's a win-win I think to separate the disorder and people doing criminal acts, as it should be.

    And yes, I knew what you meant. It was not meant as a dig at you. :)
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,663
    Man it's four hours? That's a long doc...
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • njnancy
    njnancy Posts: 5,096
    If you watch the documentary and come away not believing these guys and thinking that MJ was not a manipulative child abuser I'm not sure that anything could convince you. 

    These guys lost a lawsuit because they waited too long, not because they were not believed and they aren't profiting from the documentary. They are getting death threats and their families are in tatters. I don't see how one cannot see the pattern of grooming and abuse and it is all on video (except the sex). 

    I hope this gives other victims of abuse a chance to understand it is not their fault and if not to come forward, to get help. That entire audience that Oprah had was full of child abuse victims, including Oprah. Common sense shows he was a serial offender. 

    It's not about hating on MJ for me, it's seeing how the process occurs and being aware of it with the children in my life. 

    Domestic abusers use the same tactics. And the manipulation spreads to your children and affects everyone's life in a permanent way. Except for the abuser who usually gets away with it because they are so good at manipulating people. They do not have feelings for people, everyone is just a pawn in their life in getting whatever is their desired end. 

    Wade Robeson is famous also and he defended him into his 30;s. As one wife said - love is a powerful thing and MJ used that 'love' to manipulate innocent children. It's about psychological and emotional manipulation. Even the families fell victim to it. Having  been in an abusive relationship, they explain the manipulation that draws you in so clearly.  

    It was so powerful and disturbing. MJ is gone but his name lives on in many different ways - this is one people don't want to believe for some reason. He was an active, unabashed pedophile. I don't give him any credit for being sick or crap like that. He acted on his desires freely without care for the children he claimed he loved so much. F him and all abusers. 

    Sorry, this doc just really hit home and I almost feel protective of these guys. 


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