Have we lost the ability to engage in public discourse/ reasonable debate?

benjs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

benjs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

Please point to a time you could engage civilly in most political discussion.  There has never been a time.  People have their team and they stick with their team blindly no matter what...

been around here a long time. years ago people would actually discuss. some people got nasty, but most people would actually discuss and not just shout how right they were all the time. 

I wasn't on twitter until relatively recently, so I can't speak to that. but on tv, there is just a different tone. years ago there was no Chris Cuomo and the "counselor to the president" shouting over each other. 

Agreed. We used to have great group conversations that left me reflecting long after they ended. I've learned far too much to try to distill to one post here from people who I disagree with, people who I once disagreed with, and people who I now disagreed with. They come less frequently, but it still gives me hope that we could one day get back there. That said, hope is not a plan.

I think a lot of people, like myself (although, I do keep returning-I need a busier job, LOL) that just got tired of the bullshit and just stopped coming here. 

Definitely been there. And I find myself having to me more introspective about the damage this place does to me, just based on the toxicity. 

this place can be addictive. I find it quite easy to leave behind for a time. but then I convince myself "ah, it's not that bad" and I start lurking again and then eventually posting. 

it's not just here, though. When I've unplugged completely (like, zero internet) for a couple weeks and go to the lake, holy shit, it's really insane the effect that has. 

I really need to unplug more on a daily basis. it's not good for me at all. and research suggests I'm not in the minority. I sometimes wish I hadn't got a cell phone again after 20 years of not having one. I love/hate having everything at my fingertips at all times. 

benjs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

benjs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

Please point to a time you could engage civilly in most political discussion.  There has never been a time.  People have their team and they stick with their team blindly no matter what...

been around here a long time. years ago people would actually discuss. some people got nasty, but most people would actually discuss and not just shout how right they were all the time. 

I wasn't on twitter until relatively recently, so I can't speak to that. but on tv, there is just a different tone. years ago there was no Chris Cuomo and the "counselor to the president" shouting over each other. 

Agreed. We used to have great group conversations that left me reflecting long after they ended. I've learned far too much to try to distill to one post here from people who I disagree with, people who I once disagreed with, and people who I now disagreed with. They come less frequently, but it still gives me hope that we could one day get back there. That said, hope is not a plan.

I think a lot of people, like myself (although, I do keep returning-I need a busier job, LOL) that just got tired of the bullshit and just stopped coming here. 

Definitely been there. And I find myself having to me more introspective about the damage this place does to me, just based on the toxicity. 

I used to be on a message board for an artist in the early 2000's and there was a lot of political debate on a variety of subjects. There was one fellow member who was the complete opposite of me in lifestyle, beliefs, politics, etc.  We would have fascinating debates and neither of us ever changed the other's mind, which really wasn't the goal. We would read long posts from each other and respond and would finally  come to a place where we agreed to disagree but with an understanding of why the other person believed what they did and actually coming to the closest common ground that was possible. 

And I even attended concerts and events with her. Our political and religious differences did not bleed into our appreciation of other things and we enjoyed our debates because we both put so much thought into answering each other's questions. But those only occurred on the forum in that specific section. We could be silly with each other in other sections and agree on less weighty topics. There was no judgement or desire to silence or take each other down.  

I cannot find that type of debate with someone who I am so diametrically opposed these days; never mind having a friendship outside of that.  Our common interest in music came first and the debates were fun but secondary. It seems it is opposite nowadays. There is no desire to understand. Everything is mean spirited and sarcasm that is not meant to be funny but rather to sting. 

There is no - "would you rather be right or happy" in the development of a topic or debate. I don't see it getting any better for a long time. People do not have friends or date people who are on the opposite spectrum because it has become so intense. Healing needs to occur in the country and I'm not sure how that will happen. 

I take breaks. I'm not a person who can say 'it's just a music forum, nothing effects me'. Stuff does get to me and I need to go away for awhile. 

I saw the major shift when Obama became president. People just weren't speaking truth anymore and it has metastasized. 

I say no, we cannot to your original question. And that makes me very sad. I miss those great debates I used to have with that friend. 

I personally think there is plenty of mod activity...too much actually.

my2hands said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

there's simply just too many people waiting for their turn to talk and not listening. too much of wanting to be right instead of learning the truth. and it goes both ways. for instance, when someone brings up that Illinois has some of the strictest gun laws in the country, yet Chicago is a clusterfuck of gun violence, the left often just throw up their hands and yell "cherry picker!" or something of the like. How about "you're right, let's explore why that is"? 

there are just as many examples of the "other side" acting the same. this is not a partisan issue. 

many just aren't interested in debate where they might end up on the "losing" end. they need to be right so their interests are protected. 

Yes, it's definitely not a partisan issue.

As for not wanting to end up on the losing end- that's a great point.  Winning the game too often seems to take precedence over establishing the welfare of the people- not to mention the world that sustains us, and that requires making some sacrifices all the way around.

and I just don't see it changing. 

as an aside: Obama is speaking in Winnipeg today. Sold out the Bell MTS Place (same place the Winnipeg Jets play) in very short order. 

I was not willing to pay $600 for a floor seat nor $180 for one in the rafters. But 13,000 other people were!

Thats just ridiculous 

No one is making those people pay that to be in the building they are all there by their choice ..

brianlux said:

josevolution said:

my2hands said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

there's simply just too many people waiting for their turn to talk and not listening. too much of wanting to be right instead of learning the truth. and it goes both ways. for instance, when someone brings up that Illinois has some of the strictest gun laws in the country, yet Chicago is a clusterfuck of gun violence, the left often just throw up their hands and yell "cherry picker!" or something of the like. How about "you're right, let's explore why that is"? 

there are just as many examples of the "other side" acting the same. this is not a partisan issue. 

many just aren't interested in debate where they might end up on the "losing" end. they need to be right so their interests are protected. 

Yes, it's definitely not a partisan issue.

As for not wanting to end up on the losing end- that's a great point.  Winning the game too often seems to take precedence over establishing the welfare of the people- not to mention the world that sustains us, and that requires making some sacrifices all the way around.

and I just don't see it changing. 

as an aside: Obama is speaking in Winnipeg today. Sold out the Bell MTS Place (same place the Winnipeg Jets play) in very short order. 

I was not willing to pay $600 for a floor seat nor $180 for one in the rafters. But 13,000 other people were!

Thats just ridiculous 

No one is making those people pay that to be in the building they are all there by their choice ..

True.  The same is true with any big name be it Barack Obama, Pearl Jam, the World Series, etc.  We all have to decide to cough up the big bucks or go see/listen to/watch smaller names.  And often those smaller name/ affordable shows are the best deal anyway.

Exactly, I’m done giving my $ to stars that are filthy rich I’d rather just walk into a pub and just watch a good artist ..

benjs said:

Meltdown99 said:

Please point to a time you could engage civilly in most political discussion.  There has never been a time.  People have their team and they stick with their team blindly no matter what...

Are you blindly sticking with your team of naysayers no matter what on this topic then?

What team of naysayers do I support?    

benjs said:

Meltdown99 said:

Please point to a time you could engage civilly in most political discussion.  There has never been a time.  People have their team and they stick with their team blindly no matter what...

Are you blindly sticking with your team of naysayers no matter what on this topic then?

You have also proven my point.  I just made an observation and you continue with a personal jab.