Have we lost the ability to engage in public discourse/ reasonable debate?

my2hands

cincybearcat said:

So I think perhaps part of the problem are statements like "most of the right...human decency" and "anyone with half a brain..." thinks like me...

I think statements like that ignore the potential of the opposing or even just differing voice.  They look to try and make that differing voice stupid or even keep that differing voice from speaking up.

Amen

Smellyman

cincybearcat said:

So I think perhaps part of the problem are statements like "most of the right...human decency" and "anyone with half a brain..." thinks like me...

I think statements like that ignore the potential of the opposing or even just differing voice.  They look to try and make that differing voice stupid or even keep that differing voice from speaking up.

see the entire cpac. 

Not debatable. .

HughFreakingDillon

Meltdown99 said:

benjs said:

Meltdown99 said:

Please point to a time you could engage civilly in most political discussion.  There has never been a time.  People have their team and they stick with their team blindly no matter what...

Are you blindly sticking with your team of naysayers no matter what on this topic then?

You have also proven my point.  I just made an observation and you continue with a personal jab.  

he didn't prove your point in the slightest. you missed his point. you stated "people have their team and they stick with their team blindly no matter what". so does that mean you are sticking to your team as well by making this statement?

cincybearcat

Smellyman said:

cincybearcat said:

So I think perhaps part of the problem are statements like "most of the right...human decency" and "anyone with half a brain..." thinks like me...

I think statements like that ignore the potential of the opposing or even just differing voice.  They look to try and make that differing voice stupid or even keep that differing voice from speaking up.

see the entire cpac. 

Not debatable. .

Thanks for adding another term used that hurts public discourse... "not debatable" to clearly a topic that could be debated by reasonable people.  

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

I personally think the main problem here that didn't used to exist so much is simply people being way more mean and much more willing to throw personal insults and to demean others on a completely personal, one-on-one level, and then people reacting to it. I think dialogue would go just fine no matter how much we all disagreed with each other's views if the meanness and snark and constant pestering and so-called sarcasm (insults in poor disguises) would go away. There is altogether too much actual personal dislike here, being shared way too openly, and it's just rude.

this place was way "meaner" a long time ago. then it went pay to post and it weeded out most of the assholes. the mods went into overdrive. many of the assholes have been banned or just left. some still remain. 

as cincy pointed out, many people leave so little room for discussion that it gets frustrating. 

I do find it interesting, your entire post seems to go in direct contradiction to a previous post where you said that too many people are way too sensitive and take things too personally. and no, I'm not trying a "gotcha moment". Just trying to understand my perceived difference in  your opinion from then to now. 

Meltdown99

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

benjs said:

Meltdown99 said:

Please point to a time you could engage civilly in most political discussion.  There has never been a time.  People have their team and they stick with their team blindly no matter what...

Are you blindly sticking with your team of naysayers no matter what on this topic then?

You have also proven my point.  I just made an observation and you continue with a personal jab.  

he didn't prove your point in the slightest. you missed his point. you stated "people have their team and they stick with their team blindly no matter what". so does that mean you are sticking to your team as well by making this statement?

I do not have a team duh.  Double duh, I have voted for all 4 political parties in Canada.  WTF is the matter with you, its just general statement.  And most people stick with their team...I don't.  Have you paid attention at all?  I think most politicians are corrupt and crooked.

Fuck some of you people can twist shit up into a knot without reason...and sure as hell don't need to comment on everything I say.  I don't agree, then move the fuck on...are you capable?  Or do you just like piling on because that makes you feel good.  I'll go at you all day if you want.  One minute you are full drama, my nerves can't take this place to picking arguments...make up your fucking mind...

my2hands

Smellyman said:

cincybearcat said:

So I think perhaps part of the problem are statements like "most of the right...human decency" and "anyone with half a brain..." thinks like me...

I think statements like that ignore the potential of the opposing or even just differing voice.  They look to try and make that differing voice stupid or even keep that differing voice from speaking up.

see the entire cpac. 

Not debatable. .

So because they are a bunch of self-righteous assholes that pound their fists that they are right and the other side is dumb, weak, or the enemy........... we should do the same, just from the other side of the spectrum?

HughFreakingDillon

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

benjs said:

Meltdown99 said:

Please point to a time you could engage civilly in most political discussion.  There has never been a time.  People have their team and they stick with their team blindly no matter what...

Are you blindly sticking with your team of naysayers no matter what on this topic then?

You have also proven my point.  I just made an observation and you continue with a personal jab.  

he didn't prove your point in the slightest. you missed his point. you stated "people have their team and they stick with their team blindly no matter what". so does that mean you are sticking to your team as well by making this statement?

I do not have a team duh.  Double duh, I have voted for all 4 political parties in Canada.  WTF is the matter with you, its just general statement.  And most people stick with their team...I don't.  Have you paid attention at all?  I think most politicians are corrupt and crooked.

Fuck some of you people can twist shit up into a knot without reason...and sure as hell don't need to comment on everything I say.  I don't agree, then move the fuck on...are you capable?  Or do you just like piling on because that makes you feel good.  I'll go at you all day if you want.  One minute you are full drama, my nerves can't take this place to picking arguments...make up your fucking mind...

yikes. all you had to add was "I don't", which you did there. not sure why you had to go all ballistic. 

it's called a discussion. you made a generalized statement. benjs asked for clarification/challenged you on it. and then you whine about it/tell people not to comment on it? 

every time you get challenged on anything by more than one person you go nuclear and claim you are being bullied and throw personal insults around. jesus, talk about drama. 

Meltdown99

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

benjs said:

Meltdown99 said:

Please point to a time you could engage civilly in most political discussion.  There has never been a time.  People have their team and they stick with their team blindly no matter what...

Are you blindly sticking with your team of naysayers no matter what on this topic then?

You have also proven my point.  I just made an observation and you continue with a personal jab.  

he didn't prove your point in the slightest. you missed his point. you stated "people have their team and they stick with their team blindly no matter what". so does that mean you are sticking to your team as well by making this statement?

I do not have a team duh.  Double duh, I have voted for all 4 political parties in Canada.  WTF is the matter with you, its just general statement.  And most people stick with their team...I don't.  Have you paid attention at all?  I think most politicians are corrupt and crooked.

Fuck some of you people can twist shit up into a knot without reason...and sure as hell don't need to comment on everything I say.  I don't agree, then move the fuck on...are you capable?  Or do you just like piling on because that makes you feel good.  I'll go at you all day if you want.  One minute you are full drama, my nerves can't take this place to picking arguments...make up your fucking mind...

yikes. all you had to add was "I don't", which you did there. not sure why you had to go all ballistic. 

it's called a discussion. you made a generalized statement. benjs asked for clarification/challenged you on it. and then you whine about it/tell people not to comment on it? 

every time you get challenged on anything by more than one person you go nuclear and claim you are being bullied and throw personal insults around. jesus, talk about drama. 

Why don't you just fucking move on.  Are you capable?  You take every opportunity to pile on people.  

HughFreakingDillon

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

benjs said:

Meltdown99 said:

Please point to a time you could engage civilly in most political discussion.  There has never been a time.  People have their team and they stick with their team blindly no matter what...

Are you blindly sticking with your team of naysayers no matter what on this topic then?

You have also proven my point.  I just made an observation and you continue with a personal jab.  

he didn't prove your point in the slightest. you missed his point. you stated "people have their team and they stick with their team blindly no matter what". so does that mean you are sticking to your team as well by making this statement?

I do not have a team duh.  Double duh, I have voted for all 4 political parties in Canada.  WTF is the matter with you, its just general statement.  And most people stick with their team...I don't.  Have you paid attention at all?  I think most politicians are corrupt and crooked.

Fuck some of you people can twist shit up into a knot without reason...and sure as hell don't need to comment on everything I say.  I don't agree, then move the fuck on...are you capable?  Or do you just like piling on because that makes you feel good.  I'll go at you all day if you want.  One minute you are full drama, my nerves can't take this place to picking arguments...make up your fucking mind...

yikes. all you had to add was "I don't", which you did there. not sure why you had to go all ballistic. 

it's called a discussion. you made a generalized statement. benjs asked for clarification/challenged you on it. and then you whine about it/tell people not to comment on it? 

every time you get challenged on anything by more than one person you go nuclear and claim you are being bullied and throw personal insults around. jesus, talk about drama. 

Why don't you just fucking move on.  Are you capable?  You take every opportunity to pile on people.  

guy 1: punches guy 2
guy 2: hey, WTF?
guy 1: just move on. are you capable?  

sure, makes perfect sense. LOL

cincybearcat

Man this is priceless.  Can't even get past 3 pages without people cursing someone out, other's saying "the other side" lacks decency, another saying they have less than half a brain, and another making a point and then saying "not debatable".  

So I guess my answer to this question is, in the online/written form I do believe you can have reasonable debate from people that disagree...it's not likely though.  It becomes less likely once you have people that find others that agree with them and build a pack.  It becomes less likely when certain behaviors from individual with certain opinions is ignored while the opposing viewpoints same behaviors result in interventions.

Probably a good 10% chance...and I do not have any data to back that up.  Though I imagine if we went through this forum alone that10% might be high.

HughFreakingDillon

cincybearcat said:

Man this is priceless.  Can't even get past 3 pages without people cursing someone out, other's saying "the other side" lacks decency, another saying they have less than half a brain, and another making a point and then saying "not debatable".  

So I guess my answer to this question is, in the online/written form I do believe you can have reasonable debate from people that disagree...it's not likely though.  It becomes less likely once you have people that find others that agree with them and build a pack.  It becomes less likely when certain behaviors from individual with certain opinions is ignored while the opposing viewpoints same behaviors result in interventions.

Probably a good 10% chance...and I do not have any data to back that up.  Though I imagine if we went through this forum alone that10% might be high.

agree 100%. 

my2hands

Team Cincy

Is that how this works?

HughFreakingDillon

my2hands said:

Team Cincy

Is that how this works?

he and I have disagreed on many things. but we're never dicks to each other and can do it respectfully. 

cincybearcat

my2hands said:

Team Cincy

Is that how this works?

Hahaha be careful, I'm not the front runner here.

FYI - PM me your address and I'll send the official team jersey and hat.

brianlux

cincybearcat said:

Man this is priceless.  Can't even get past 3 pages without people cursing someone out, other's saying "the other side" lacks decency, another saying they have less than half a brain, and another making a point and then saying "not debatable".  

So I guess my answer to this question is, in the online/written form I do believe you can have reasonable debate from people that disagree...it's not likely though.  It becomes less likely once you have people that find others that agree with them and build a pack.  It becomes less likely when certain behaviors from individual with certain opinions is ignored while the opposing viewpoints same behaviors result in interventions.

Probably a good 10% chance...and I do not have any data to back that up.  Though I imagine if we went through this forum alone that10% might be high.

It begs the question, "Have we lost the ability to engage in discourse/ reasonable debate", doesn't it?

jeffbr

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

Man this is priceless.  Can't even get past 3 pages without people cursing someone out, other's saying "the other side" lacks decency, another saying they have less than half a brain, and another making a point and then saying "not debatable".  

So I guess my answer to this question is, in the online/written form I do believe you can have reasonable debate from people that disagree...it's not likely though.  It becomes less likely once you have people that find others that agree with them and build a pack.  It becomes less likely when certain behaviors from individual with certain opinions is ignored while the opposing viewpoints same behaviors result in interventions.

Probably a good 10% chance...and I do not have any data to back that up.  Though I imagine if we went through this forum alone that10% might be high.

It begs the question, "Have we lost the ability to engage in discourse/ reasonable debate", doesn't it?

Good thread, Brian! This thread is a microcosm of the bigger problem, and amazingly answered its own question within the first few pages. Sad but illustrative. Go Team Cincy.

brianlux

jeffbr said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

Man this is priceless.  Can't even get past 3 pages without people cursing someone out, other's saying "the other side" lacks decency, another saying they have less than half a brain, and another making a point and then saying "not debatable".  

So I guess my answer to this question is, in the online/written form I do believe you can have reasonable debate from people that disagree...it's not likely though.  It becomes less likely once you have people that find others that agree with them and build a pack.  It becomes less likely when certain behaviors from individual with certain opinions is ignored while the opposing viewpoints same behaviors result in interventions.

Probably a good 10% chance...and I do not have any data to back that up.  Though I imagine if we went through this forum alone that10% might be high.

It begs the question, "Have we lost the ability to engage in discourse/ reasonable debate", doesn't it?

Good thread, Brian! This thread is a microcosm of the bigger problem, and amazingly answered its own question within the first few pages. Sad but illustrative. Go Team Cincy.

Thank you Jeff.

And to all, my intent here is not to make myself look great.  This thread speaks to me as well.   I can do better.  To varying degrees, I think we all can do better. 

josevolution

Debate is good & dandy but if you try to debate a Baffoon supporter they will never see the other side to them there’s only one side ..amongst us should be easy, we argue but I don’t see it as a huge problem 

mickeyrat

jeffbr said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

Man this is priceless.  Can't even get past 3 pages without people cursing someone out, other's saying "the other side" lacks decency, another saying they have less than half a brain, and another making a point and then saying "not debatable".  

So I guess my answer to this question is, in the online/written form I do believe you can have reasonable debate from people that disagree...it's not likely though.  It becomes less likely once you have people that find others that agree with them and build a pack.  It becomes less likely when certain behaviors from individual with certain opinions is ignored while the opposing viewpoints same behaviors result in interventions.

Probably a good 10% chance...and I do not have any data to back that up.  Though I imagine if we went through this forum alone that10% might be high.

It begs the question, "Have we lost the ability to engage in discourse/ reasonable debate", doesn't it?

Good thread, Brian! This thread is a microcosm of the bigger problem, and amazingly answered its own question within the first few pages. Sad but illustrative. Go Team Cincy.

The Bengals suck. AGAIN......