ANALYSIS: Why people are freaking out about Howard Schultz running for president

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  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    edited January 2019
    fife said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    fife said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    fife said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    fife said:
    I have no problem with him running but for me my problem is that he is wimping out on not running in a primary.  if he is that confident that the "silent majority" is not being represented by both parties than put that to the test and run in a primary.
    He is running as an independent.  He does not need the primaries.
    I understand that but he says that he is more of a democrat than republican so if he believes that and believes that the democrats have gone to far left then run in the democratic primary and put that to the test.
    Why should he?  If he wants to run as an independent, then good for him.  He saw what happened 4 years, he probably feels he has a better chance as independent...
    by running as an independent, he actually makes his chances less to become president cause you are just splitting the votes.  if you run in a primary and win then you don't split the vote.  
    That's also the beauty of the US system, anyone can run to be president, does not mean anyone will win.
    sorry that happens in any democratic system.  anyone can run to be the Prime Minster of Canada. 
    No they can't.  If I had a billion dollars I could just not go to election Canada and tell them I'm running put me on the ballot, you have to  hook on with one of the crooked parties and win the nomination.  We do not vote for our crooks directly, you vote the crooked party in.
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  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,758
    Meltdown99 said:
    fife said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    fife said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    fife said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    fife said:
    I have no problem with him running but for me my problem is that he is wimping out on not running in a primary.  if he is that confident that the "silent majority" is not being represented by both parties than put that to the test and run in a primary.
    He is running as an independent.  He does not need the primaries.
    I understand that but he says that he is more of a democrat than republican so if he believes that and believes that the democrats have gone to far left then run in the democratic primary and put that to the test.
    Why should he?  If he wants to run as an independent, then good for him.  He saw what happened 4 years, he probably feels he has a better chance as independent...
    by running as an independent, he actually makes his chances less to become president cause you are just splitting the votes.  if you run in a primary and win then you don't split the vote.  
    That's also the beauty of the US system, anyone can run to be president, does not mean anyone will win.
    sorry that happens in any democratic system.  anyone can run to be the Prime Minster of Canada. 
    No they can't.  If I had a billion dollars I could just not go to election Canada and tell them I'm running put me on the ballot, you have to  hook on with one of the crooked parties and win the nomination.  We do not vote for our crooks directly, you vote the crooked party in.
    True, but anyone who wants to put some effort in and just a little money can start their own political party and then run for PM as that party's leader. To create a political party in Canada you have to:
    have an allowed name, a party leader and a party office;have a minimum of three officers (other than the leader);
    appoint a chief agent;appoint an auditor, who must have a Canadian professional accounting designation;have at least 250 people who are registered to vote, who must sign and declare that they are members of your party.Once your party is registered, then you can endorse candidates in an election. However, if you don't endorse at least one candidate in each general election, then your party will be deregistered.

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,642
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    The Dems are trying to protect our electoral process. They don't want to see a third-party candidate with no shot at winning taking votes away from one of the major party candidates...unless of course that third-party candidate is Ross Perot and the major party candidate he's taking votes away from is George Bush. 
    He actually took more votes away from Clinton.
    Not surprised that you would say that but I'm not sure where you're getting that information from. Exit polls showed that Perot took away from both. My comment was meant more to suggest that the democrats are mad now about the prospect of someone taking votes away from their candidate, but they didn't care when it was assumed that Perot would take away from Bush.

    Here's the exit poll data and a link to the article it's pulled from...

    "If Mr. Perot had not been on the ballot, 38 percent of his voters said, they would have voted for Gov. Bill Clinton, and 38 percent said they would have voted for President Bush. Of the 31 states where Mr. Perot garnered more than 20 percent, 17 were won by Mr. Clinton and 14 by Mr. Bush."

    https://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/05/us/1992-elections-disappointment-analysis-eccentric-but-no-joke-perot-s-strong.html
    I heard it on NPR this morning by a guy who studies independent campaigns and their effect on the candidates of either party. He basically said the concept of silent majorities are a myth and that voters are highly loyal to their party affiliation. As such, independents don’t stand a chance in a general election. He also said research showed that Perot drew more voters from Clinton. I think maybe Reagan Dems who would identify with fiscal conservatism? Anyway, this guy had credibility as a researcher and wasn’t some talking head. I’ve tried to find the interview and if I’m successful, I’ll link it.

    Why are you not surprised id say that? The interview was really interesting and he shattered some myths about third party candidates.
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,642
    Gore should have moved left as nadar pushed and embraced bill to campaign for him. Instead it took a Supreme Court decision and Florida electoral malfeasance to throw it to Bush.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 17,001
    edited January 2019
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    The Dems are trying to protect our electoral process. They don't want to see a third-party candidate with no shot at winning taking votes away from one of the major party candidates...unless of course that third-party candidate is Ross Perot and the major party candidate he's taking votes away from is George Bush. 
    He actually took more votes away from Clinton.
    Not surprised that you would say that but I'm not sure where you're getting that information from. Exit polls showed that Perot took away from both. My comment was meant more to suggest that the democrats are mad now about the prospect of someone taking votes away from their candidate, but they didn't care when it was assumed that Perot would take away from Bush.

    Here's the exit poll data and a link to the article it's pulled from...

    "If Mr. Perot had not been on the ballot, 38 percent of his voters said, they would have voted for Gov. Bill Clinton, and 38 percent said they would have voted for President Bush. Of the 31 states where Mr. Perot garnered more than 20 percent, 17 were won by Mr. Clinton and 14 by Mr. Bush."

    https://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/05/us/1992-elections-disappointment-analysis-eccentric-but-no-joke-perot-s-strong.html
    I heard it on NPR this morning by a guy who studies independent campaigns and their effect on the candidates of either party. He basically said the concept of silent majorities are a myth and that voters are highly loyal to their party affiliation. As such, independents don’t stand a chance in a general election. He also said research showed that Perot drew more voters from Clinton. I think maybe Reagan Dems who would identify with fiscal conservatism? Anyway, this guy had credibility as a researcher and wasn’t some talking head. I’ve tried to find the interview and if I’m successful, I’ll link it.

    Why are you not surprised id say that? The interview was really interesting and he shattered some myths about third party candidates.
    Well when you first said it with nothing to back it up, I thought, "Well, I know he loves the Clintons so maybe he's just saying that because he doesn't want to see Clinton's election stained by Perot." 

    I've never listened to NPR and don't know who this researcher you're referencing is. I do agree with his finding that independent candidates don't have a chance. As far as 1992 goes, the exit polls say one thing, and your guy says another. So I would be interested to see where he got his info from if you can find it. And not just pertaining to 1992. Since you said he studies independent campaigns, he would probably have insight on Perot in '96, Nadar in '00, etc. 
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  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,637
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Gore should have moved left as nadar pushed and embraced bill to campaign for him. Instead it took a Supreme Court decision and Florida electoral malfeasance to throw it to Bush.
    He also should have embraced Clinton's presidency more.  Because of the Monica scandal, I don't think Gore really knew what to do and hi kinda distanced himself from a presidency that people were generally happy with with the exception of one thing that was not seen as having anything to do with Gore.
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  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,459
    Jason P said:
    jeffbr said:
    Jason P said:
    The guy sold the Seattle Supersonics to OKC.  I don't know how anyone could trust him.
    He's not trusted in Seattle, I can tell you that! 
    Yeah, I was living in Seattle when that charade was carried out.

    He sold them for $350 million.  10 Years later OKC is valued at $1.3 Billion.  I'm guessing if they stayed in Seattle they would be closer to $1.75 Billion.  But he couldn't get the taxpayers to build a new stadium so he threw a tantrum. 

    Yeah that isn't going to go over well.

    I heard he was talking about running, then I heard the Dem freak out, then I heard him on Morning Joe this morning.

    I don't think the Dems have anything to worry about.  The Dems aren't going to like this guy.  He'll pull many more votes from tRump then he will from the Dems.

    He thinks medicare for all is socialist and seems to have a very high opinion of himself.  That isn't going to fly.
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    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

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    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
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  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    High opinion of himself? Sounds like a politician alright!
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,459
    His main message was that our government is broken and that he can fix it.

    Yeah...we heard that before.  Nice idea but no....
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    Gern Blansten said:
    His main message was that our government is broken and that he can fix it.

    Yeah...we heard that before.  Nice idea but no....
     He’s at least half right! 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,459
    He did say that he believes health care to be a right.  He also said that he supported the ACA but didn't like certain aspects of it....yeah, who does?


    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    I thought this was a pro-choice forum?
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    The Dems are trying to protect our electoral process. They don't want to see a third-party candidate with no shot at winning taking votes away from one of the major party candidates...unless of course that third-party candidate is Ross Perot and the major party candidate he's taking votes away from is George Bush. 
    He actually took more votes away from Clinton.
    Come again Watson?
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,642
    my2hands said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    The Dems are trying to protect our electoral process. They don't want to see a third-party candidate with no shot at winning taking votes away from one of the major party candidates...unless of course that third-party candidate is Ross Perot and the major party candidate he's taking votes away from is George Bush. 
    He actually took more votes away from Clinton.
    Come again Watson?
    The person I heard on NPR this morning stated that Perot took more votes from Clinton. This 538 analysis that’s linked in a different NPR piece from yesterday says Perot took from both Clinton and Bish equally. I might have to wait for tomorrow to find what I heard this morning online.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-ross-perot-myth/
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    Will coffee be free?
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    brianlux said:
    Will coffee be free?
    you couldn't pay me to drink over-roasted over-brewed over-priced starbucks

    seriously, gas station coffee has come a long way in the last decade and way cheaper

    usually i just brew my own at home in the morning.  french press only takes 4 minutes.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    CM189191 said:
    brianlux said:
    Will coffee be free?
    you couldn't pay me to drink over-roasted over-brewed over-priced starbucks

    seriously, gas station coffee has come a long way in the last decade and way cheaper

    usually i just brew my own at home in the morning.  french press only takes 4 minutes.
    Silly me!  I forgot it was Star*ucks.  Totally agree- that stuff is nasty!  Give me Pete's or better yet, Jeremiah's Pick!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    brianlux said:
    CM189191 said:
    brianlux said:
    Will coffee be free?
    you couldn't pay me to drink over-roasted over-brewed over-priced starbucks

    seriously, gas station coffee has come a long way in the last decade and way cheaper

    usually i just brew my own at home in the morning.  french press only takes 4 minutes.
    Silly me!  I forgot it was Star*ucks.  Totally agree- that stuff is nasty!  Give me Pete's or better yet, Jeremiah's Pick!
    Hmmm I like Starbucks. I find gas station coffee to be awful. Pete’s is good too. I like over roasted coffee apparently. 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,391
    cincybearcat said:
    brianlux said:
    CM189191 said:
    brianlux said:
    Will coffee be free?
    you couldn't pay me to drink over-roasted over-brewed over-priced starbucks

    seriously, gas station coffee has come a long way in the last decade and way cheaper

    usually i just brew my own at home in the morning.  french press only takes 4 minutes.
    Silly me!  I forgot it was Star*ucks.  Totally agree- that stuff is nasty!  Give me Pete's or better yet, Jeremiah's Pick!
    Hmmm I like Starbucks. I find gas station coffee to be awful. Pete’s is good too. I like over roasted coffee apparently. 
    For my first time in about ten years, I quit coffee six or seven weeks ago. Unbelievable the positive impact it's had on me.
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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    benjs said:
    cincybearcat said:
    brianlux said:
    CM189191 said:
    brianlux said:
    Will coffee be free?
    you couldn't pay me to drink over-roasted over-brewed over-priced starbucks

    seriously, gas station coffee has come a long way in the last decade and way cheaper

    usually i just brew my own at home in the morning.  french press only takes 4 minutes.
    Silly me!  I forgot it was Star*ucks.  Totally agree- that stuff is nasty!  Give me Pete's or better yet, Jeremiah's Pick!
    Hmmm I like Starbucks. I find gas station coffee to be awful. Pete’s is good too. I like over roasted coffee apparently. 
    For my first time in about ten years, I quit coffee six or seven weeks ago. Unbelievable the positive impact it's had on me.
    Bravo!  I've quit coffee a few times... for a few days.  

    What are the benefits for you, Ben?
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

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