brianlux said:

rgambs said:

Ok, I was an asshole and I apologize for calling vegans idiots.
I do think it's extreme and there aren't any arguments for it that hold up very well, but there are plenty of fine vegan people.

It's a pet peeve of mine because my sense of self is rooted in trying to rationally apply my mind toward being as natural a person as I can, and there's nothing natural about refusing all animal food sources.  Even true herbivores make no such effort.
Like PJPOWER, I live my life much, much more connected to the world that sustains us than most.  I do this by living in a wild space, growing/harvesting as much of my food as possible, and working to limit my use of energy and technology.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sulJSKwla6U

HAHAHA brilliant.

Thoughts_Arrive said:

My friend is a vegan and so is his partner. 
I feel guilty all the time being a meat eater, like I'm a bad sinner in their eyes. They've never judged me but if I eat meat around them I am self conscious. 
I feel bad that some meat suppliers kill animals unethically. 
Wish I was vegan but I don't feel I have the conviction to go off meat seeing my favourite dishes include it.

I'm a flavourtarian - I follow the flavour. When there's a fucking delicious sounding vegan offering on a menu, I will happily consume it. For what it's worth, I've eaten at vegan restaurants that are as delicious as non-vegan ones - but at least in Toronto, you typically have to pay more for something that tastes as good as a non-vegan counterpart. These days though, I'm happy to have a vegetable or tofu curry. My brother, who I live with, has also been a vegan for almost four years now.

What I don't understand is why vegans refuse ethically sourced eggs and dairy?
I totally get why you don't buy a 79¢ carton of eggs at the supermarket, or buy that milk that's a dollar a gallon, but why won't you eat eggs and cheese from local and ethical sources when given the opportunity?  
I also get why you wouldn't make a habit of searching out such foods, it can be a hassle...but when you come to my house and you see the chickens and goats (don't have any right now, but I will get set back up within a few years) ranging free and healthy...why do you refuse to eat the glorious golden eggs and delicious cheese?  I can't help but take it as a slight on my hospitality because I'm just damn old fashioned, I guess.

rgambs said:

What I don't understand is why vegans refuse ethically sourced eggs and dairy?
I totally get why you don't buy a 79¢ carton of eggs at the supermarket, or buy that milk that's a dollar a gallon, but why won't you eat eggs and cheese from local and ethical sources when given the opportunity?  
I also get why you wouldn't make a habit of searching out such foods, it can be a hassle...but when you come to my house and you see the chickens and goats (don't have any right now, but I will get set back up within a few years) ranging free and healthy...why do you refuse to eat the glorious golden eggs and delicious cheese?  I can't help but take it as a slight on my hospitality because I'm just damn old fashioned, I guess.

Could be that many people don't live in places with access to ethically sourced eggs and dairy.  I'm fortunate to be able to buy eggs from people I know who raise chickens locally.  Fresh eggs!

rgambs said:

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

What I don't understand is why vegans refuse ethically sourced eggs and dairy?
I totally get why you don't buy a 79¢ carton of eggs at the supermarket, or buy that milk that's a dollar a gallon, but why won't you eat eggs and cheese from local and ethical sources when given the opportunity?  
I also get why you wouldn't make a habit of searching out such foods, it can be a hassle...but when you come to my house and you see the chickens and goats (don't have any right now, but I will get set back up within a few years) ranging free and healthy...why do you refuse to eat the glorious golden eggs and delicious cheese?  I can't help but take it as a slight on my hospitality because I'm just damn old fashioned, I guess.

Could be that many people don't live in places with access to ethically sourced eggs and dairy.  I'm fortunate to be able to buy eggs from people I know who raise chickens locally.  Fresh eggs!

I totally get that, and I don't expect people in urban areas to source clean eggs and dairy when they have vegan alternatives at hand, but the vegans I know refuse regardless of source.

Yeah, I can see how that would be a bit odd to those of us who are not strict vegan or vegetarian, but I very much admire people who adhere strongly to their convictions, especially when they strive to lead by example and not by scolding or lecturing.

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Just curious.  Why the fuck does anyone care what other people eat.  Why preach?

 I think some people care in a more general sense regarding cruelty to animals and universal health of the planet (as in a Gaia kind of thing).

I get that people care about the animals.    But do you actually need to preach about what people choose to eat?  If people choose to be Vegan good for them.  People have also been eating meat forever, it's never going to change.  I do not know what meat prices are in the US, but meat here are high...I have not seen statistics.  But I would bet the price of meat will mean less consumption of meat in the long run.  I do not eat that much meat for that reason.

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Just curious.  Why the fuck does anyone care what other people eat.  Why preach?

 I think some people care in a more general sense regarding cruelty to animals and universal health of the planet (as in a Gaia kind of thing).

I get that people care about the animals.    But do you actually need to preach about what people choose to eat?  If people choose to be Vegan good for them.  People have also been eating meat forever, it's never going to change.  I do not know what meat prices are in the US, but meat here are high...I have not seen statistics.  But I would bet the price of meat will mean less consumption of meat in the long run.  I do not eat that much meat for that reason.

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

What I don't understand is why vegans refuse ethically sourced eggs and dairy?
I totally get why you don't buy a 79¢ carton of eggs at the supermarket, or buy that milk that's a dollar a gallon, but why won't you eat eggs and cheese from local and ethical sources when given the opportunity?  
I also get why you wouldn't make a habit of searching out such foods, it can be a hassle...but when you come to my house and you see the chickens and goats (don't have any right now, but I will get set back up within a few years) ranging free and healthy...why do you refuse to eat the glorious golden eggs and delicious cheese?  I can't help but take it as a slight on my hospitality because I'm just damn old fashioned, I guess.

Could be that many people don't live in places with access to ethically sourced eggs and dairy.  I'm fortunate to be able to buy eggs from people I know who raise chickens locally.  Fresh eggs!

I totally get that, and I don't expect people in urban areas to source clean eggs and dairy when they have vegan alternatives at hand, but the vegans I know refuse regardless of source.

Yeah, I can see how that would be a bit odd to those of us who are not strict vegan or vegetarian, but I very much admire people who adhere strongly to their convictions, especially when they strive to lead by example and not by scolding or lecturing.

Exactly.  My sister was a vegetarian for 10 years or so.  She started eating meat again because she missed the taste.  She is like me, we do not consume much meat...also she never once preached about her lifestyle choice...she had no problem attending family dinners where meat was served.  We all respect each others choice.

njnancy said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Just curious.  Why the fuck does anyone care what other people eat.  Why preach?

 I think some people care in a more general sense regarding cruelty to animals and universal health of the planet (as in a Gaia kind of thing).

I get that people care about the animals.    But do you actually need to preach about what people choose to eat?  If people choose to be Vegan good for them.  People have also been eating meat forever, it's never going to change.  I do not know what meat prices are in the US, but meat here are high...I have not seen statistics.  But I would bet the price of meat will mean less consumption of meat in the long run.  I do not eat that much meat for that reason.

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

What I don't understand is why vegans refuse ethically sourced eggs and dairy?
I totally get why you don't buy a 79¢ carton of eggs at the supermarket, or buy that milk that's a dollar a gallon, but why won't you eat eggs and cheese from local and ethical sources when given the opportunity?  
I also get why you wouldn't make a habit of searching out such foods, it can be a hassle...but when you come to my house and you see the chickens and goats (don't have any right now, but I will get set back up within a few years) ranging free and healthy...why do you refuse to eat the glorious golden eggs and delicious cheese?  I can't help but take it as a slight on my hospitality because I'm just damn old fashioned, I guess.

Could be that many people don't live in places with access to ethically sourced eggs and dairy.  I'm fortunate to be able to buy eggs from people I know who raise chickens locally.  Fresh eggs!

I totally get that, and I don't expect people in urban areas to source clean eggs and dairy when they have vegan alternatives at hand, but the vegans I know refuse regardless of source.

Yeah, I can see how that would be a bit odd to those of us who are not strict vegan or vegetarian, but I very much admire people who adhere strongly to their convictions, especially when they strive to lead by example and not by scolding or lecturing.

Exactly.  My sister was a vegetarian for 10 years or so.  She started eating meat again because she missed the taste.  She is like me, we do not consume much meat...also she never once preached about her lifestyle choice...she had no problem attending family dinners where meat was served.  We all respect each others choice.

You should show that respect of choice to everyone. Without scolding.

For somehow who doesn't like my posting, why the fuck do you quote me.  Is NJ education system that bad?  The only thing I can figure,

njnancy said:

Meltdown99 said:

njnancy said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Just curious.  Why the fuck does anyone care what other people eat.  Why preach?

 I think some people care in a more general sense regarding cruelty to animals and universal health of the planet (as in a Gaia kind of thing).

I get that people care about the animals.    But do you actually need to preach about what people choose to eat?  If people choose to be Vegan good for them.  People have also been eating meat forever, it's never going to change.  I do not know what meat prices are in the US, but meat here are high...I have not seen statistics.  But I would bet the price of meat will mean less consumption of meat in the long run.  I do not eat that much meat for that reason.

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

What I don't understand is why vegans refuse ethically sourced eggs and dairy?
I totally get why you don't buy a 79¢ carton of eggs at the supermarket, or buy that milk that's a dollar a gallon, but why won't you eat eggs and cheese from local and ethical sources when given the opportunity?  
I also get why you wouldn't make a habit of searching out such foods, it can be a hassle...but when you come to my house and you see the chickens and goats (don't have any right now, but I will get set back up within a few years) ranging free and healthy...why do you refuse to eat the glorious golden eggs and delicious cheese?  I can't help but take it as a slight on my hospitality because I'm just damn old fashioned, I guess.

Could be that many people don't live in places with access to ethically sourced eggs and dairy.  I'm fortunate to be able to buy eggs from people I know who raise chickens locally.  Fresh eggs!

I totally get that, and I don't expect people in urban areas to source clean eggs and dairy when they have vegan alternatives at hand, but the vegans I know refuse regardless of source.

Yeah, I can see how that would be a bit odd to those of us who are not strict vegan or vegetarian, but I very much admire people who adhere strongly to their convictions, especially when they strive to lead by example and not by scolding or lecturing.

Exactly.  My sister was a vegetarian for 10 years or so.  She started eating meat again because she missed the taste.  She is like me, we do not consume much meat...also she never once preached about her lifestyle choice...she had no problem attending family dinners where meat was served.  We all respect each others choice.

You should show that respect of choice to everyone. Without scolding.

For somehow who doesn't like my posting, why the fuck do you quote me.  Is NJ education system that bad?  The only thing I can figure,

For someone,  not somehow.   Proofreading is a valuable tool. 

Please do not presume to know what I like or do not like. And do not curse at me.

My gawd you are one sensitive person.  Hoe do function?