Vegan diets increasing malnutrition in wealthy countries?

brianlux

I-Hop, Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, Friday, 12/21/18, 09.30 hours.  First cup o' joe is on me.

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

I-Hop, Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, Friday, 12/21/18, 09.30 hours.  First cup o' joe is on me.

Have you verified that they have am ihop.  As long as it's not a Cracker Barrel...

mcgruff10

Meltdown99 said:

njnancy said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Just curious.  Why the fuck does anyone care what other people eat.  Why preach?

 I think some people care in a more general sense regarding cruelty to animals and universal health of the planet (as in a Gaia kind of thing).

I get that people care about the animals.    But do you actually need to preach about what people choose to eat?  If people choose to be Vegan good for them.  People have also been eating meat forever, it's never going to change.  I do not know what meat prices are in the US, but meat here are high...I have not seen statistics.  But I would bet the price of meat will mean less consumption of meat in the long run.  I do not eat that much meat for that reason.

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

What I don't understand is why vegans refuse ethically sourced eggs and dairy?
I totally get why you don't buy a 79¢ carton of eggs at the supermarket, or buy that milk that's a dollar a gallon, but why won't you eat eggs and cheese from local and ethical sources when given the opportunity?  
I also get why you wouldn't make a habit of searching out such foods, it can be a hassle...but when you come to my house and you see the chickens and goats (don't have any right now, but I will get set back up within a few years) ranging free and healthy...why do you refuse to eat the glorious golden eggs and delicious cheese?  I can't help but take it as a slight on my hospitality because I'm just damn old fashioned, I guess.

Could be that many people don't live in places with access to ethically sourced eggs and dairy.  I'm fortunate to be able to buy eggs from people I know who raise chickens locally.  Fresh eggs!

I totally get that, and I don't expect people in urban areas to source clean eggs and dairy when they have vegan alternatives at hand, but the vegans I know refuse regardless of source.

Yeah, I can see how that would be a bit odd to those of us who are not strict vegan or vegetarian, but I very much admire people who adhere strongly to their convictions, especially when they strive to lead by example and not by scolding or lecturing.

Exactly.  My sister was a vegetarian for 10 years or so.  She started eating meat again because she missed the taste.  She is like me, we do not consume much meat...also she never once preached about her lifestyle choice...she had no problem attending family dinners where meat was served.  We all respect each others choice.

You should show that respect of choice to everyone. Without scolding.

For somehow who doesn't like my posting, why the fuck do you quote me.  Is NJ education system that bad?  The only thing I can figure,

I know you are being sarcastic but New Jersey is always top three in the country.  I like all food except for mayonnaise, veal and olives.  Mayo is just gross and should be illegal.  I lived in Spain and they literally served olives at every meal, I just don’t like the taste.  

Meltdown99

mcgruff10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

njnancy said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Just curious.  Why the fuck does anyone care what other people eat.  Why preach?

 I think some people care in a more general sense regarding cruelty to animals and universal health of the planet (as in a Gaia kind of thing).

I get that people care about the animals.    But do you actually need to preach about what people choose to eat?  If people choose to be Vegan good for them.  People have also been eating meat forever, it's never going to change.  I do not know what meat prices are in the US, but meat here are high...I have not seen statistics.  But I would bet the price of meat will mean less consumption of meat in the long run.  I do not eat that much meat for that reason.

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

What I don't understand is why vegans refuse ethically sourced eggs and dairy?
I totally get why you don't buy a 79¢ carton of eggs at the supermarket, or buy that milk that's a dollar a gallon, but why won't you eat eggs and cheese from local and ethical sources when given the opportunity?  
I also get why you wouldn't make a habit of searching out such foods, it can be a hassle...but when you come to my house and you see the chickens and goats (don't have any right now, but I will get set back up within a few years) ranging free and healthy...why do you refuse to eat the glorious golden eggs and delicious cheese?  I can't help but take it as a slight on my hospitality because I'm just damn old fashioned, I guess.

Could be that many people don't live in places with access to ethically sourced eggs and dairy.  I'm fortunate to be able to buy eggs from people I know who raise chickens locally.  Fresh eggs!

I totally get that, and I don't expect people in urban areas to source clean eggs and dairy when they have vegan alternatives at hand, but the vegans I know refuse regardless of source.

Yeah, I can see how that would be a bit odd to those of us who are not strict vegan or vegetarian, but I very much admire people who adhere strongly to their convictions, especially when they strive to lead by example and not by scolding or lecturing.

Exactly.  My sister was a vegetarian for 10 years or so.  She started eating meat again because she missed the taste.  She is like me, we do not consume much meat...also she never once preached about her lifestyle choice...she had no problem attending family dinners where meat was served.  We all respect each others choice.

You should show that respect of choice to everyone. Without scolding.

For somehow who doesn't like my posting, why the fuck do you quote me.  Is NJ education system that bad?  The only thing I can figure,

I know you are being sarcastic but New Jersey is always top three in the country.  I like all food except for mayonnaise, veal and olives.  Mayo is just gross and should be illegal.  I lived in Spain and they literally served olives at every meal, I just don’t like the taste.  

It was sarcasm, yes.  I do not like mayonnaise either.  You lived in Spain?  My Dad loves Spain, unfortunately, he no longer goes.  He is 83 and worried if he ended up hospitalized over there.  You can buy private insurance, but he is smart, he knows 1 mistake on the app form and they will not pay the bill.

mcgruff10

Meltdown99 said:

mcgruff10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

njnancy said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Just curious.  Why the fuck does anyone care what other people eat.  Why preach?

 I think some people care in a more general sense regarding cruelty to animals and universal health of the planet (as in a Gaia kind of thing).

I get that people care about the animals.    But do you actually need to preach about what people choose to eat?  If people choose to be Vegan good for them.  People have also been eating meat forever, it's never going to change.  I do not know what meat prices are in the US, but meat here are high...I have not seen statistics.  But I would bet the price of meat will mean less consumption of meat in the long run.  I do not eat that much meat for that reason.

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

What I don't understand is why vegans refuse ethically sourced eggs and dairy?
I totally get why you don't buy a 79¢ carton of eggs at the supermarket, or buy that milk that's a dollar a gallon, but why won't you eat eggs and cheese from local and ethical sources when given the opportunity?  
I also get why you wouldn't make a habit of searching out such foods, it can be a hassle...but when you come to my house and you see the chickens and goats (don't have any right now, but I will get set back up within a few years) ranging free and healthy...why do you refuse to eat the glorious golden eggs and delicious cheese?  I can't help but take it as a slight on my hospitality because I'm just damn old fashioned, I guess.

Could be that many people don't live in places with access to ethically sourced eggs and dairy.  I'm fortunate to be able to buy eggs from people I know who raise chickens locally.  Fresh eggs!

I totally get that, and I don't expect people in urban areas to source clean eggs and dairy when they have vegan alternatives at hand, but the vegans I know refuse regardless of source.

Yeah, I can see how that would be a bit odd to those of us who are not strict vegan or vegetarian, but I very much admire people who adhere strongly to their convictions, especially when they strive to lead by example and not by scolding or lecturing.

Exactly.  My sister was a vegetarian for 10 years or so.  She started eating meat again because she missed the taste.  She is like me, we do not consume much meat...also she never once preached about her lifestyle choice...she had no problem attending family dinners where meat was served.  We all respect each others choice.

You should show that respect of choice to everyone. Without scolding.

For somehow who doesn't like my posting, why the fuck do you quote me.  Is NJ education system that bad?  The only thing I can figure,

I know you are being sarcastic but New Jersey is always top three in the country.  I like all food except for mayonnaise, veal and olives.  Mayo is just gross and should be illegal.  I lived in Spain and they literally served olives at every meal, I just don’t like the taste.  

It was sarcasm, yes.  I do not like mayonnaise either.  You lived in Spain?  My Dad loves Spain, unfortunately, he no longer goes.  He is 83 and worried if he ended up hospitalized over there.  You can buy private insurance, but he is smart, he knows 1 mistake on the app form and they will not pay the bill.

Yeah I lived in Seville way back in 2000. I absolutely love the Spanish way of life. 

Meltdown99

mcgruff10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

mcgruff10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

njnancy said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Just curious.  Why the fuck does anyone care what other people eat.  Why preach?

 I think some people care in a more general sense regarding cruelty to animals and universal health of the planet (as in a Gaia kind of thing).

I get that people care about the animals.    But do you actually need to preach about what people choose to eat?  If people choose to be Vegan good for them.  People have also been eating meat forever, it's never going to change.  I do not know what meat prices are in the US, but meat here are high...I have not seen statistics.  But I would bet the price of meat will mean less consumption of meat in the long run.  I do not eat that much meat for that reason.

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

What I don't understand is why vegans refuse ethically sourced eggs and dairy?
I totally get why you don't buy a 79¢ carton of eggs at the supermarket, or buy that milk that's a dollar a gallon, but why won't you eat eggs and cheese from local and ethical sources when given the opportunity?  
I also get why you wouldn't make a habit of searching out such foods, it can be a hassle...but when you come to my house and you see the chickens and goats (don't have any right now, but I will get set back up within a few years) ranging free and healthy...why do you refuse to eat the glorious golden eggs and delicious cheese?  I can't help but take it as a slight on my hospitality because I'm just damn old fashioned, I guess.

Could be that many people don't live in places with access to ethically sourced eggs and dairy.  I'm fortunate to be able to buy eggs from people I know who raise chickens locally.  Fresh eggs!

I totally get that, and I don't expect people in urban areas to source clean eggs and dairy when they have vegan alternatives at hand, but the vegans I know refuse regardless of source.

Yeah, I can see how that would be a bit odd to those of us who are not strict vegan or vegetarian, but I very much admire people who adhere strongly to their convictions, especially when they strive to lead by example and not by scolding or lecturing.

Exactly.  My sister was a vegetarian for 10 years or so.  She started eating meat again because she missed the taste.  She is like me, we do not consume much meat...also she never once preached about her lifestyle choice...she had no problem attending family dinners where meat was served.  We all respect each others choice.

You should show that respect of choice to everyone. Without scolding.

For somehow who doesn't like my posting, why the fuck do you quote me.  Is NJ education system that bad?  The only thing I can figure,

I know you are being sarcastic but New Jersey is always top three in the country.  I like all food except for mayonnaise, veal and olives.  Mayo is just gross and should be illegal.  I lived in Spain and they literally served olives at every meal, I just don’t like the taste.  

It was sarcasm, yes.  I do not like mayonnaise either.  You lived in Spain?  My Dad loves Spain, unfortunately, he no longer goes.  He is 83 and worried if he ended up hospitalized over there.  You can buy private insurance, but he is smart, he knows 1 mistake on the app form and they will not pay the bill.

Yeah I lived in Seville way back in 2000. I absolutely love the Spanish way of life. 

That's funny, that's what my Dad loves...

brianlux

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

LOL

Meltdown99

Chickens freezing to death and boiled alive: failings in US slaughterhouses exposed
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/dec/17/chickens-freezing-to-death-and-boiled-alive-failings-in-us-slaughterhouses-exposed?CMP=fb_gu&fbclid=IwAR2GqNvTQ02zpD1Xh6aaul7muGjY86Vwr8IihxYnG4mrkpkKXsLTr0a_ufs

josevolution

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

I-Hop, Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, Friday, 12/21/18, 09.30 hours.  First cup o' joe is on me.

Have you verified that they have am ihop.  As long as it's not a Cracker Barrel...

You don’t like Craker Barrel either lol I only eat in when in the road and only breakfast they do pretty good job with that ...

Meltdown99

josevolution said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

I-Hop, Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, Friday, 12/21/18, 09.30 hours.  First cup o' joe is on me.

Have you verified that they have am ihop.  As long as it's not a Cracker Barrel...

You don’t like Craker Barrel either lol I only eat in when in the road and only breakfast they do pretty good job with that ...

Yes, breakfast is fine.  I didn't enjoy the atmosphere.  Just not my cup of tea.  

josevolution

Meltdown99 said:

josevolution said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

I-Hop, Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, Friday, 12/21/18, 09.30 hours.  First cup o' joe is on me.

Have you verified that they have am ihop.  As long as it's not a Cracker Barrel...

You don’t like Craker Barrel either lol I only eat in when in the road and only breakfast they do pretty good job with that ...

Yes, breakfast is fine.  I didn't enjoy the atmosphere.  Just not my cup of tea.  

Where was that location? The only ones I’ve eaten at were in Pennsylvania..

PJ_Soul

Spiritual_Chaos said:

rgambs said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

Interesting read.  If you are a vegan, be sure you are going above and beyond to get your needed nutrients...:
https://www.sciencealert.com/veganism-is-increasing-malnutrition-in-wealthy-countries

Thanks for posting , my 21 yr old daughter is trying to be vegan for the most part is so I’ll talk to her about this article ..

Sure thing!  I think a lot of people think that switching to a vegan diet will automatically make them healthier, but they need to be sure they are getting their appropriate nutrients or they could end up with serious health issues.  

Which is just about the most moronic thing ever lol
Dumber than Trump!

"I'm going to switch to made up diet that the human body has never ever subsisted on in it's 2 million year history, and I expect to get healthier." 

You can't make this shit up lol

Can you make this up(?) --> All the extremely fat people walking around or rolling around on those scooters. Whatever diet you choose -- some people don't seem to take the time to think about what they eat. 

And, we didn't hog down meat like we do today for these 2 million years you are talking about. We have no problems eating entirely plantbased. We are not created by some devine god to eat other animals. 

So I think fat chicken-bucket-eaters are more "the most moronic thing ever lol" than people choosing to eat plantbased and missing to check on getting all nutrients.

Yeah, there isn't an obesity epidemic because of meat eating dude.

HughFreakingDillon

brianlux said:

Smellyman said:

I know people think vegans are annoying and in your face with their lifestyle over yours, but it is a big time perception of what seat you sit in.  I don't tell anybody I am at all.

It is astounding what dicks people are when they find out I am.  

That sucks! 

Why the hell should anyone care?  Just makes no sense to me.

I think people get their backs up that they are about to be judged as an asshole for being a meat-eater, or that they assume people like smelly look down on meat eaters, when most people who are vegetarian aren't activists. it's a common misconception. 

brianlux

Perhaps, perhaps not.  But absolutely not?  I'm not so sure.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/08/160801093003.htm

https://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/obesity/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2697260/

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/meat-obesity-sugar-protein-fat-research-a7168066.html

PJPOWER

brianlux said:

Perhaps, perhaps not.  But absolutely not?  I'm not so sure.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/08/160801093003.htm

https://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/obesity/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2697260/

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/meat-obesity-sugar-protein-fat-research-a7168066.html

Moderation and education is key, as mentioned several times before
Many of the health consequences are related to how things are prepared. If you dump a truckload of salt on stuff, there will eventually be consequences. If you fry everything...same.  I, personally, like to change up my diet often and try not to stuff myself when I eat.  Seems to be working so far (according to my cardiologist and BMI).

Thoughts_Arrive

brianlux said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

My friend is a vegan and so is his partner. 
I feel guilty all the time being a meat eater, like I'm a bad sinner in their eyes. They've never judged me but if I eat meat around them I am self conscious. 
I feel bad that some meat suppliers kill animals unethically. 
Wish I was vegan but I don't feel I have the conviction to go off meat seeing my favourite dishes include it.

I don't eat beef or pork very often- usually when it is what someone is serving to me- but I know what you mean about feeling bad about doing so.  But when that happens, I remember what my friend Tim told me many years ago.  He was a conscientious vegetarian but if someone served him something with meat, he would eat it and be grateful for the food.  That made sense to me.  (Cool guy.  Sadly, he died in his sleep at 50 of a brain aneurysm.  real bummer- I miss that guy.)  So I think the key is to be thankful to have nourishment.

benjs said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

My friend is a vegan and so is his partner. 
I feel guilty all the time being a meat eater, like I'm a bad sinner in their eyes. They've never judged me but if I eat meat around them I am self conscious. 
I feel bad that some meat suppliers kill animals unethically. 
Wish I was vegan but I don't feel I have the conviction to go off meat seeing my favourite dishes include it.

I'm a flavourtarian - I follow the flavour. When there's a fucking delicious sounding vegan offering on a menu, I will happily consume it. For what it's worth, I've eaten at vegan restaurants that are as delicious as non-vegan ones - but at least in Toronto, you typically have to pay more for something that tastes as good as a non-vegan counterpart. These days though, I'm happy to have a vegetable or tofu curry. My brother, who I live with, has also been a vegan for almost four years now.

"flavourtarian", haha!  I like that!

Sorry to hear about your friend, terribly sad.

Thoughts_Arrive

Meltdown99 said:

Chickens freezing to death and boiled alive: failings in US slaughterhouses exposed
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/dec/17/chickens-freezing-to-death-and-boiled-alive-failings-in-us-slaughterhouses-exposed?CMP=fb_gu&fbclid=IwAR2GqNvTQ02zpD1Xh6aaul7muGjY86Vwr8IihxYnG4mrkpkKXsLTr0a_ufs

It has happened in Australia. Saw a report on television and it seriously made me feel so guilty.

Thoughts_Arrive

brianlux said:

LOL

brianlux

Thoughts_Arrive said:

brianlux said:

LOL

Yeah, carrots are weird. 

That baby, by the way, was made by these two carrots: