$15 minimum wage

HesCalledDyer said:

As a cyclist myself, I've talked to many a person around here with the opinion that we belong on the sidewalk and if they every catch a cyclist on the road, they make it a point to barely miss hitting us or not miss at all.  I really don't understand it.  You don't go derbying other cars on the road, or motorcyclists. What is the beef with pedal cycling that you feel the need & desire to run us off the road, hit & injure, or worse kill us?

Anyway, not sure how minimum wage evolved into this, but there's my input on one of the reasons why cyclists don't cycle to work.

I’ve never heard anyone say they try not to miss, but it’s come up in threads before and I have heard the near miss comments before. I don’t think anyone intentionally hits a biker.
I think that’s wrong, but I think there is equal blame and responsibility.
Why do drivers get so annoyed at cyclists? I’m guessing because they are impeding traffic and just not using common sense and acting like they own the road.
I see it all the time. There’s about a mile of stretch of road by my house before I get to the freeway that this is not uncommon. Although no bike lane, there is plenty of room to ride on the shoulder and allow cars to pass. Why they don’t and chose to ride in the middle of the road is beyond me. Personally I would just ride my bike through the residential streets nearby. 
I mentioned that last time this topic came up and was told by several that they have as much right to be there as a car. While I agree, there’s also a responsibility to respect cars and do your best not to impede traffic when possible. It’s when they chose not to, or ride side by side that drivers get pissed off.
Not saying they should clip bikers, just there’s a shared responsibility.

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

I have almost nothing against the Amish whatsoever, just that thing about basing gender roles on what the Bible says. I COMPLETELY disagree with your watering down of the inequality women live under in the Amish world Brian. I'm not arguing that they aren't esteemed in a way - I am already well aware of the gender roles in Amish society - but at the end of the day that is the go-to excuse used to defend female inequality in religious cultures that are ruled by men.
But many things about Amish culture are quite nice and I respect their choice to live separate from modern society - I understand the appeal. My only point was that using the Amish as an example for the rest of society to follow in terms of farming practices with the lack of advanced technology is pretty much pointless, all things considered.

I agree with you about basing female roles etc. on the Bible.  Not my thing, that's for sure.

But as far as Amish farming practices go, I'm totally for it. Writer and farmer Wendell Berry (the greatest living writer in America) talks a lot about the practical and wise farming practices of the Amish.  Makes total sense to me.  I think when the age of oil is done and over, Berry will be proven correct. 

I don't see why anyone would not be "for" Amish farming practices. You'd have to be a mental case to be "against" it. I'm simply claiming that those practices wouldn't work for the masses. They only succeed in small communities.

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

I have almost nothing against the Amish whatsoever, just that thing about basing gender roles on what the Bible says. I COMPLETELY disagree with your watering down of the inequality women live under in the Amish world Brian. I'm not arguing that they aren't esteemed in a way - I am already well aware of the gender roles in Amish society - but at the end of the day that is the go-to excuse used to defend female inequality in religious cultures that are ruled by men.
But many things about Amish culture are quite nice and I respect their choice to live separate from modern society - I understand the appeal. My only point was that using the Amish as an example for the rest of society to follow in terms of farming practices with the lack of advanced technology is pretty much pointless, all things considered.

I agree with you about basing female roles etc. on the Bible.  Not my thing, that's for sure.

But as far as Amish farming practices go, I'm totally for it. Writer and farmer Wendell Berry (the greatest living writer in America) talks a lot about the practical and wise farming practices of the Amish.  Makes total sense to me.  I think when the age of oil is done and over, Berry will be proven correct. 

I don't see why anyone would not be "for" Amish farming practices. You'd have to be a mental case to be "against" it. I'm simply claiming that those practices wouldn't work for the masses. They only succeed in small communities.

mace1229 said:

HesCalledDyer said:

As a cyclist myself, I've talked to many a person around here with the opinion that we belong on the sidewalk and if they every catch a cyclist on the road, they make it a point to barely miss hitting us or not miss at all.  I really don't understand it.  You don't go derbying other cars on the road, or motorcyclists. What is the beef with pedal cycling that you feel the need & desire to run us off the road, hit & injure, or worse kill us?

Anyway, not sure how minimum wage evolved into this, but there's my input on one of the reasons why cyclists don't cycle to work.

I’ve never heard anyone say they try not to miss, but it’s come up in threads before and I have heard the near miss comments before. I don’t think anyone intentionally hits a biker.
I think that’s wrong, but I think there is equal blame and responsibility.
Why do drivers get so annoyed at cyclists? I’m guessing because they are impeding traffic and just not using common sense and acting like they own the road.
I see it all the time. There’s about a mile of stretch of road by my house before I get to the freeway that this is not uncommon. Although no bike lane, there is plenty of room to ride on the shoulder and allow cars to pass. Why they don’t and chose to ride in the middle of the road is beyond me. Personally I would just ride my bike through the residential streets nearby. 
I mentioned that last time this topic came up and was told by several that they have as much right to be there as a car. While I agree, there’s also a responsibility to respect cars and do your best not to impede traffic when possible. It’s when they chose not to, or ride side by side that drivers get pissed off.
Not saying they should clip bikers, just there’s a shared responsibility.

Riding on the shoulder is dangerous for a cyclist.  Way too much debris on the side of the road - whether it's gravel, glass, trash, etc.  Many places don't even have shoulders.  But anytime I've ever ridden, if traffic is approaching, I move as close to the white line as possible and allow them to move around me.  It's common sense.  But yes, regardless of whether a motorist is pissed off or not gives them no right to run us off the road.  There is no need or sufficient reason for a motorist to "act like they own the road" either.  If for some reason a cyclist doesn't see or hear you (not you personally, but "you" in general), a short, sweet beep of the horn to alert us you're approaching could easily reconcile the situation.

HesCalledDyer said:

And yes, people do intentionally hit bikers.

Yes, it happens on occasion. It's a form of road rage. And yes, not that it justifies endangering bikers, some cyclists are the WORST. There are plenty of them in Vancouver who just refuse to respect the rules of the road, and even as a pedestrian watching from the sidewalk, it's absolutely infuriating. I don't really blame drivers for learning to hate them, with so many cyclists acting that way. It's just too bad it negatively affects the cyclists who are doing it right.

PJ_Soul said:

HesCalledDyer said:

And yes, people do intentionally hit bikers.

Yes, it happens on occasion. It's a form of road rage. And yes, not that it justifies endangering bikers, some cyclists are the WORST. There are plenty of them in Vancouver who just refuse to respect the rules of the road, and even as a pedestrian watching from the sidewalk, it's absolutely infuriating. I don't really blame drivers for learning to hate them, with so many cyclists acting that way. It's just too bad it negatively affects the cyclists who are doing it right.

The "bike authority" as I call them. We have a group of them around here.  They created the only cycling club in the area about 10-12 years ago and thus think they are the bicycle & road authority.  I refuse to join the club or ride with them because I don't want to be associated with the bad apples.  Yes, it is one thing to understand and expect that motorists should be sharing the road with you.  It's also a thing for all parties, motorists & cyclists alike, to respect the road and basic traffic laws (signal your turns & stops, obey street signs & traffic lights, give enough distance, etc).  Neither should go out with the expectation that one deserves the road more than the other.  Cooperation is key, it's costs nothing, and takes very little effort on both parts.

How the heck did the Amish become part of a conversation about minimum wage.  The Amish would not like, they like to go about their business peacefully and quietly.  The Amish don't tell me how to live, I will not tell them how live...

brianlux said:

CM189191 said:

PJPOWER said:

CM189191 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Who determined $15 was a living wage anyways.  How come no one expects the government to tax us less leaving us more disposable income.

How come no one expects government to provide housing, food, education and health care; leaving us more disposable income?

Because a lot of people prefer the ability to choose where to live, the food they eat, the type of education their children get, and where they receive health care...

You don't have that luxury now.  Do you live in a penthouse in manhattan? Eat surf & turf every night? Go to Harvard? Get treated at Mayo Clinic?  No you don't.

A lot people are having to choose between whether they can pay rent, afford groceries, pay their student loans or afford treatment they need.  

So true.  Most people don't have the luxury to live wherever they please and have to make those tough decisions.

That said, on the flip side I know from seeing how some of the young adults we know quite well spend their money, that wise spending and good budgeting are not often practicedd (and probably because the example is not often set for them earlier on).  If I ran a school, I would place a huge emphasis on the subject of personal finance.  Most people live below their means because they don't know or practice the first thing about good budgeting and getting the most for their money.  That's no excuse for underpaying people, but it really is a major reason why so many people do not live as well as they could. 

Agreed with the personal finance aspect.  My wife and I are pretty diligent at budgeting and sticking to it.  We got out of debt years ago and our goal is to never have debt again.  That being said, the most I learned through high school about personal finance is how to write a check, lol.  That’s sad, because once you get to college, there are tons of credit card companies circling like buzzards.  I knew plenty of others during college that struggled to pay rent, not because they didn’t have adequate income, but spent well beyond their means either eating out, going to the clubs, etc.  They were living lifestyles that they couldn’t afford.