what is up with all these hollywood pedos?

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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 18,778
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Spacey: 26
    Rapp: 14

    in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?
    I just can't figure out why you're talking about rape at all.
    Also, in 1984, weren't there states where the age of consent was 14 or even lower? Anyway, making advances on a 14 year old once at a drunken party does not a pedophile make.
    I just can't figure out why you think, even if Rapp is stating the truth, that this is no big deal.

    you are saying this is no big deal if Spacey made sexual advances on a 14 year old when he was 26 if it was "a one off mistake". by extension, are you saying that if Rapp had consented it would also be no big deal? even when a 14 year old can legally consent to having sexual relations with another, isn't there also some definitions on age difference?
    I said very clearly that it's not cool and that I don't approve of the behaviour. I only think it's "no big deal" in relation to the reaction and the consequences. I think it is a huge overreaction even IF it happened the way this guy said it did, which is completely up for debate in any case. I simply do not think that this one supposed incident that happened decades ago is a good reason for a person's life to be ruined. IF this isn't a continuing patter for Spacey, I don't think what he did all those years ago, in that context, deserves the consequences he is experiencing. I would imagine that the man he is today has basically no relation to the man he was all those years ago in that brief moment in time.
    how can you possibly make that assumption that he is no longer the same person he was, but in the same breath tell the rest of us that we have no idea what was going in his or Rapp's mind at the time?

    his show has been put on hold for the time being. he has hardly faced any consequences at all. and he may not have faced any consequences if he didn't just brush it off as a non-incident in his statement. that was a huge part of this whole issue. 
    Headstones Fan Boy
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,586
    edited November 2017
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Spacey: 26
    Rapp: 14

    in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?
    I just can't figure out why you're talking about rape at all.
    Also, in 1984, weren't there states where the age of consent was 14 or even lower? Anyway, making advances on a 14 year old once at a drunken party does not a pedophile make.
    I just can't figure out why you think, even if Rapp is stating the truth, that this is no big deal.

    you are saying this is no big deal if Spacey made sexual advances on a 14 year old when he was 26 if it was "a one off mistake". by extension, are you saying that if Rapp had consented it would also be no big deal? even when a 14 year old can legally consent to having sexual relations with another, isn't there also some definitions on age difference?
    I said very clearly that it's not cool and that I don't approve of the behaviour. I only think it's "no big deal" in relation to the reaction and the consequences. I think it is a huge overreaction even IF it happened the way this guy said it did, which is completely up for debate in any case. I simply do not think that this one supposed incident that happened decades ago is a good reason for a person's life to be ruined. IF this isn't a continuing patter for Spacey, I don't think what he did all those years ago, in that context, deserves the consequences he is experiencing. I would imagine that the man he is today has basically no relation to the man he was all those years ago in that brief moment in time.
    how can you possibly make that assumption that he is no longer the same person he was, but in the same breath tell the rest of us that we have no idea what was going in his or Rapp's mind at the time?

    his show has been put on hold for the time being. he has hardly faced any consequences at all. and he may not have faced any consequences if he didn't just brush it off as a non-incident in his statement. that was a huge part of this whole issue. 
    I'm not making the assumption. That is why I said IF in capital letters. I have no idea how you make the connection between Spacey perhaps not being the same person and what might have been in Rapp's head at the time. I also have no idea what was going on with either of their heads at the time. That's the point.
    He is already and will face MASSIVE consequences man. His entire career is totally fucked, in the blink of an eye. And I already said many times that that facebook post was totally fucked up.

    And yeah, if Rapp had consented and was totally fine with it, I would also think, at this point in time all these years later, that it isn't that big a deal. That doesn't mean a condone it. I am still just comparing it to the consequences 30+ years later. I don't think it would be fair for someone to suffer this if it was a drunken one-off that happened in a different life. Is there seriously no room in your mind for the idea that a man can change in all that time? That a man just did something shitty once that he shouldn't have done, but isn't a threat, isn't a bad person? That who he is today isn't who he was then in that long ago moment?
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,586
    So has anyone discussed the obvious yet? That Spacey is being destroyed for one unproven accusation from 30 years ago that was sent to Buzzfeed, when, after 11 accusations of sexual assault, 2 accusations by 13 year olds of rape, and a recorded confession of being a repeat sexual predator, Trump was still elected President of the United States of America, and there is absolutely no rule against that being the case?
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 5,944
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Spacey: 26
    Rapp: 14

    in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?
    I just can't figure out why you're talking about rape at all.
    Also, in 1984, weren't there states where the age of consent was 14 or even lower? Anyway, making advances on a 14 year old once at a drunken party does not a pedophile make.
    I just can't figure out why you think, even if Rapp is stating the truth, that this is no big deal.

    you are saying this is no big deal if Spacey made sexual advances on a 14 year old when he was 26 if it was "a one off mistake". by extension, are you saying that if Rapp had consented it would also be no big deal? even when a 14 year old can legally consent to having sexual relations with another, isn't there also some definitions on age difference?
    I said very clearly that it's not cool and that I don't approve of the behaviour. I only think it's "no big deal" in relation to the reaction and the consequences. I think it is a huge overreaction even IF it happened the way this guy said it did, which is completely up for debate in any case. I simply do not think that this one supposed incident that happened decades ago is a good reason for a person's life to be ruined. IF this isn't a continuing patter for Spacey, I don't think what he did all those years ago, in that context, deserves the consequences he is experiencing. I would imagine that the man he is today has basically no relation to the man he was all those years ago in that brief moment in time.
    Eventually, we all get our due. Doesn't matter when or where. I guess that's the price to pay for hiding something for so many years. If the incident is true, then maybe Spacey would have never gained the fame and fortune he has now if Rapp had followed up on it initially. Hard to say.

    The most damning part to me has been Spacey's non-committal response. If someone came forward (male or female) and said something similar, I could adamantly state beyond doubt that there is no way in hell that happened. The only thing Spacey's response did for me is confirm that he lived/lives on the edge of sexual acceptability and has definitely crossed the line. Put yourself in that situation, does Spacey's response make sense to you? Is that what you would say if it didn't happen. Would you really not be sure and claim, "I was probably drunk."
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,586
    tbergs said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Spacey: 26
    Rapp: 14

    in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?
    I just can't figure out why you're talking about rape at all.
    Also, in 1984, weren't there states where the age of consent was 14 or even lower? Anyway, making advances on a 14 year old once at a drunken party does not a pedophile make.
    I just can't figure out why you think, even if Rapp is stating the truth, that this is no big deal.

    you are saying this is no big deal if Spacey made sexual advances on a 14 year old when he was 26 if it was "a one off mistake". by extension, are you saying that if Rapp had consented it would also be no big deal? even when a 14 year old can legally consent to having sexual relations with another, isn't there also some definitions on age difference?
    I said very clearly that it's not cool and that I don't approve of the behaviour. I only think it's "no big deal" in relation to the reaction and the consequences. I think it is a huge overreaction even IF it happened the way this guy said it did, which is completely up for debate in any case. I simply do not think that this one supposed incident that happened decades ago is a good reason for a person's life to be ruined. IF this isn't a continuing patter for Spacey, I don't think what he did all those years ago, in that context, deserves the consequences he is experiencing. I would imagine that the man he is today has basically no relation to the man he was all those years ago in that brief moment in time.
    Eventually, we all get our due. Doesn't matter when or where. I guess that's the price to pay for hiding something for so many years. If the incident is true, then maybe Spacey would have never gained the fame and fortune he has now if Rapp had followed up on it initially. Hard to say.

    The most damning part to me has been Spacey's non-committal response. If someone came forward (male or female) and said something similar, I could adamantly state beyond doubt that there is no way in hell that happened. The only thing Spacey's response did for me is confirm that he lived/lives on the edge of sexual acceptability and has definitely crossed the line. Put yourself in that situation, does Spacey's response make sense to you? Is that what you would say if it didn't happen. Would you really not be sure and claim, "I was probably drunk."
    I don't think there really would have been any consequences if Rapp had complained about it at the time to be honest, for better or worse.
    As for the first part of his post... I have absolutely no problem with the possibility that he both doesn't remember it, but also apologized for if it did happen. I don't find that strange at all. If someone came to me and told me about some fucked up thing I did when I was blackout drunk that upset that person, I would say pretty much the same thing: I'm horrified about this, I don't remember it at all, but if it happened the way you say it did, I'm so sorry.
    I think the second part of the post is the strange part.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 18,778
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Spacey: 26
    Rapp: 14

    in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?
    I just can't figure out why you're talking about rape at all.
    Also, in 1984, weren't there states where the age of consent was 14 or even lower? Anyway, making advances on a 14 year old once at a drunken party does not a pedophile make.
    I just can't figure out why you think, even if Rapp is stating the truth, that this is no big deal.

    you are saying this is no big deal if Spacey made sexual advances on a 14 year old when he was 26 if it was "a one off mistake". by extension, are you saying that if Rapp had consented it would also be no big deal? even when a 14 year old can legally consent to having sexual relations with another, isn't there also some definitions on age difference?
    I said very clearly that it's not cool and that I don't approve of the behaviour. I only think it's "no big deal" in relation to the reaction and the consequences. I think it is a huge overreaction even IF it happened the way this guy said it did, which is completely up for debate in any case. I simply do not think that this one supposed incident that happened decades ago is a good reason for a person's life to be ruined. IF this isn't a continuing patter for Spacey, I don't think what he did all those years ago, in that context, deserves the consequences he is experiencing. I would imagine that the man he is today has basically no relation to the man he was all those years ago in that brief moment in time.
    how can you possibly make that assumption that he is no longer the same person he was, but in the same breath tell the rest of us that we have no idea what was going in his or Rapp's mind at the time?

    his show has been put on hold for the time being. he has hardly faced any consequences at all. and he may not have faced any consequences if he didn't just brush it off as a non-incident in his statement. that was a huge part of this whole issue. 
    I'm not making the assumption. That is why I said IF in capital letters. I have no idea how you make the connection between Spacey perhaps not being the same person and what might have been in Rapp's head at the time. I also have no idea what was going on with either of their heads at the time. That's the point.
    He is already and will face MASSIVE consequences man. His entire career is totally fucked, in the blink of an eye. And I already said many times that that facebook post was totally fucked up.

    And yeah, if Rapp had consented and was totally fine with it, I would also think, at this point in time all these years later, that it isn't that big a deal. That doesn't mean a condone it. I am still just comparing it to the consequences 30+ years later. I don't think it would be fair for someone to suffer this if it was a drunken one-off that happened in a different life. Is there seriously no room in your mind for the idea that a man can change in all that time? That a man just did something shitty once that he shouldn't have done, but isn't a threat, isn't a bad person? That who he is today isn't who he was then in that long ago moment?
    you are answering the wrong question. I was asking how you can make this statement: I would imagine that the man he is today has basically no relation to the man he was all those years ago in that brief moment in time. There is no "IF" in that statement. 

    Of course there is room in my mind that he might be. but as you've pointed out several times, none of us know that, and can't know that. 

    And to me, that's irrelevant. passage of time makes zero difference to me. an offence in 1984 is still an offence. passage of time means nothing. 

    I have serious doubts that he didn't do what was accused. people don't just come out publicly like that without cause. not 30 years later. 
    Headstones Fan Boy
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,586
    edited November 2017
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Spacey: 26
    Rapp: 14

    in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?
    I just can't figure out why you're talking about rape at all.
    Also, in 1984, weren't there states where the age of consent was 14 or even lower? Anyway, making advances on a 14 year old once at a drunken party does not a pedophile make.
    I just can't figure out why you think, even if Rapp is stating the truth, that this is no big deal.

    you are saying this is no big deal if Spacey made sexual advances on a 14 year old when he was 26 if it was "a one off mistake". by extension, are you saying that if Rapp had consented it would also be no big deal? even when a 14 year old can legally consent to having sexual relations with another, isn't there also some definitions on age difference?
    I said very clearly that it's not cool and that I don't approve of the behaviour. I only think it's "no big deal" in relation to the reaction and the consequences. I think it is a huge overreaction even IF it happened the way this guy said it did, which is completely up for debate in any case. I simply do not think that this one supposed incident that happened decades ago is a good reason for a person's life to be ruined. IF this isn't a continuing patter for Spacey, I don't think what he did all those years ago, in that context, deserves the consequences he is experiencing. I would imagine that the man he is today has basically no relation to the man he was all those years ago in that brief moment in time.
    how can you possibly make that assumption that he is no longer the same person he was, but in the same breath tell the rest of us that we have no idea what was going in his or Rapp's mind at the time?

    his show has been put on hold for the time being. he has hardly faced any consequences at all. and he may not have faced any consequences if he didn't just brush it off as a non-incident in his statement. that was a huge part of this whole issue. 
    I'm not making the assumption. That is why I said IF in capital letters. I have no idea how you make the connection between Spacey perhaps not being the same person and what might have been in Rapp's head at the time. I also have no idea what was going on with either of their heads at the time. That's the point.
    He is already and will face MASSIVE consequences man. His entire career is totally fucked, in the blink of an eye. And I already said many times that that facebook post was totally fucked up.

    And yeah, if Rapp had consented and was totally fine with it, I would also think, at this point in time all these years later, that it isn't that big a deal. That doesn't mean a condone it. I am still just comparing it to the consequences 30+ years later. I don't think it would be fair for someone to suffer this if it was a drunken one-off that happened in a different life. Is there seriously no room in your mind for the idea that a man can change in all that time? That a man just did something shitty once that he shouldn't have done, but isn't a threat, isn't a bad person? That who he is today isn't who he was then in that long ago moment?
    you are answering the wrong question. I was asking how you can make this statement: I would imagine that the man he is today has basically no relation to the man he was all those years ago in that brief moment in time. There is no "IF" in that statement. 

    Of course there is room in my mind that he might be. but as you've pointed out several times, none of us know that, and can't know that. 

    And to me, that's irrelevant. passage of time makes zero difference to me. an offence in 1984 is still an offence. passage of time means nothing. 

    I have serious doubts that he didn't do what was accused. people don't just come out publicly like that without cause. not 30 years later. 
    It all depends on if. Every single thing I've said in this thread depends on IF.

    I agree that nobody would come out publicly like that without some kind of cause, but I don't agree that that cause is necessarily just. I also don't think that a 30+ year old memory is necessarily even accurate. For all we know this whole wave of accusations is what got into his head, or someone else did, and the incident was completely inflated in his mind. Maybe someone else convinced him that it was a big deal when he never thought so before. We have no idea.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Did we all think that the "casting couch" was a myth? Or that Polanski, Fatty Arbuckle and company were all a story?

    The poison from the poison stream caught up to you TEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08

  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Did we all think that the "casting couch" was a myth? Or that Polanski, Fatty Arbuckle and company were all a story?
    "conspiracy theory"
    "lone wolf(s)"
    “I used to spend a lot of time in this room...back when it was a shit hole and I was a shit head.”
    big·otˈbiɡət/ noun: a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.
    big·ot·ryˈbiɡətrē/ noun: intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 18,778
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Spacey: 26
    Rapp: 14

    in every state in the US, even if he consented, that is statutory rape and punishable by law. why is statutory rape "no big deal"?
    I just can't figure out why you're talking about rape at all.
    Also, in 1984, weren't there states where the age of consent was 14 or even lower? Anyway, making advances on a 14 year old once at a drunken party does not a pedophile make.
    I just can't figure out why you think, even if Rapp is stating the truth, that this is no big deal.

    you are saying this is no big deal if Spacey made sexual advances on a 14 year old when he was 26 if it was "a one off mistake". by extension, are you saying that if Rapp had consented it would also be no big deal? even when a 14 year old can legally consent to having sexual relations with another, isn't there also some definitions on age difference?
    I said very clearly that it's not cool and that I don't approve of the behaviour. I only think it's "no big deal" in relation to the reaction and the consequences. I think it is a huge overreaction even IF it happened the way this guy said it did, which is completely up for debate in any case. I simply do not think that this one supposed incident that happened decades ago is a good reason for a person's life to be ruined. IF this isn't a continuing patter for Spacey, I don't think what he did all those years ago, in that context, deserves the consequences he is experiencing. I would imagine that the man he is today has basically no relation to the man he was all those years ago in that brief moment in time.
    how can you possibly make that assumption that he is no longer the same person he was, but in the same breath tell the rest of us that we have no idea what was going in his or Rapp's mind at the time?

    his show has been put on hold for the time being. he has hardly faced any consequences at all. and he may not have faced any consequences if he didn't just brush it off as a non-incident in his statement. that was a huge part of this whole issue. 
    I'm not making the assumption. That is why I said IF in capital letters. I have no idea how you make the connection between Spacey perhaps not being the same person and what might have been in Rapp's head at the time. I also have no idea what was going on with either of their heads at the time. That's the point.
    He is already and will face MASSIVE consequences man. His entire career is totally fucked, in the blink of an eye. And I already said many times that that facebook post was totally fucked up.

    And yeah, if Rapp had consented and was totally fine with it, I would also think, at this point in time all these years later, that it isn't that big a deal. That doesn't mean a condone it. I am still just comparing it to the consequences 30+ years later. I don't think it would be fair for someone to suffer this if it was a drunken one-off that happened in a different life. Is there seriously no room in your mind for the idea that a man can change in all that time? That a man just did something shitty once that he shouldn't have done, but isn't a threat, isn't a bad person? That who he is today isn't who he was then in that long ago moment?
    you are answering the wrong question. I was asking how you can make this statement: I would imagine that the man he is today has basically no relation to the man he was all those years ago in that brief moment in time. There is no "IF" in that statement. 

    Of course there is room in my mind that he might be. but as you've pointed out several times, none of us know that, and can't know that. 

    And to me, that's irrelevant. passage of time makes zero difference to me. an offence in 1984 is still an offence. passage of time means nothing. 

    I have serious doubts that he didn't do what was accused. people don't just come out publicly like that without cause. not 30 years later. 
    It all depends on if. Every single thing I've said in this thread depends on IF.

    I agree that nobody would come out publicly like that without some kind of cause, but I don't agree that that cause is necessarily just. I also don't think that a 30+ year old memory is necessarily even accurate. For all we know this whole wave of accusations is what got into his, or someone else did, and the incident was completely inflated in this mind. Maybe someone else convinced him that it was a big deal when he never thought so before. We have no idea.
    the problem, as i see it, is you are giving more of the benefit of the doubt on the accused than you are the accuser. Spacey is probably not the same person he was. Spacey made a one-off drunken mistake. Spacey is probably not a threat. Rapp might be inflating the incident in his mind. Rapp might be riding the wave of accusations. 

    you said earlier "this is why 14 year old girls don't tell their parents anything". I would argue, and the stats back it up, that your skeptical , and even dismissive, attitude towards the accuser is actually why people don't come forward. 

    I always agree innocent until proven guilty, and an accusation of sexual impropriety is probably worse than being accused and acquitted of murder. But this case, to me, screams that Spacey did what he is being accused of. 
    Headstones Fan Boy
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,586
    I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt to anyone more than the other. The problem is that the consequences for Spacey are too serious to be giving the benfit of the doubt more to the accuser. I feel I'm being equal as far as that goes, while everyone else is giving the benefit of the doubt to the accuser. Under the specific circumstances, I don't think that's any more fair than what  you're saying I'm doing.

    I don't feel like you do agree with innocent until proven guilty at all, based on what you're said here.
    And obviously I think that if Spacey did do what he's being accused of, I don't think your conclusions after that are fair. They would be if there was an established pattern of behaviour, but there isn't (yet).
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,586
    PJ_Soul said:
    So has anyone discussed the obvious yet? That Spacey is being destroyed for one unproven accusation from 30 years ago that was sent to Buzzfeed, when, after 11 accusations of sexual assault, 2 accusations by 13 year olds of rape, and a recorded confession of being a repeat sexual predator, Trump was still elected President of the United States of America, and there is absolutely no rule against that being the case?
    Anyone?
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 18,778
    PJ_Soul said:
    I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt to anyone more than the other. The problem is that the consequences for Spacey are too serious to be giving the benfit of the doubt more to the accuser. I feel I'm being equal as far as that goes, while everyone else is giving the benefit of the doubt to the accuser. Under the specific circumstances, I don't think that's any more fair than what  you're saying I'm doing.

    I don't feel like you do agree with innocent until proven guilty at all, based on what you're said here.
    And obviously I think that if Spacey did do what he's being accused of, I don't think your conclusions after that are fair. They would be if there was an established pattern of behaviour, but there isn't (yet).
    unfortunately, part of what is happening to him consequence-wise are his own doing with his idiotic statement. I would have sympathy for the man if he came out and said "I absolutely did not do this" or "I did this, and I am so sorry". not explained it away as being drunk and then deflecting with coming out of the closet. 

    well you can believe what you want I suppose, but you'd be dead wrong. DEAD. WRONG. (see my previous comment about Cosby). I'm about as forgiving and innocent until proven guilty as you can get. just ask @Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Headstones Fan Boy
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 18,778
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So has anyone discussed the obvious yet? That Spacey is being destroyed for one unproven accusation from 30 years ago that was sent to Buzzfeed, when, after 11 accusations of sexual assault, 2 accusations by 13 year olds of rape, and a recorded confession of being a repeat sexual predator, Trump was still elected President of the United States of America, and there is absolutely no rule against that being the case?
    Anyone?
    well that's pretty obvious, as you said. but what's your point? we all know that Trump is a disgusting, vile human being. you won't get an argument there. 
    Headstones Fan Boy
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 18,778
    PJ_Soul said:
    I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt to anyone more than the other. The problem is that the consequences for Spacey are too serious to be giving the benfit of the doubt more to the accuser. I feel I'm being equal as far as that goes, while everyone else is giving the benefit of the doubt to the accuser. Under the specific circumstances, I don't think that's any more fair than what  you're saying I'm doing.

    I don't feel like you do agree with innocent until proven guilty at all, based on what you're said here.
    And obviously I think that if Spacey did do what he's being accused of, I don't think your conclusions after that are fair. They would be if there was an established pattern of behaviour, but there isn't (yet).
    benefit of doubt should not sway to either. it should be equal until all facts are known. the consequence is unfortunate, but when things like this become public knowledge, it's the level of outrage that is there/isn't there determines those consequences. they are different for each and every person, based on many factors. 

    I think his response, as I said, is largely to blame for his current level of consequence. 
    Headstones Fan Boy
  • PJ_Soul said:
    I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt to anyone more than the other. The problem is that the consequences for Spacey are too serious to be giving the benfit of the doubt more to the accuser. I feel I'm being equal as far as that goes, while everyone else is giving the benefit of the doubt to the accuser. Under the specific circumstances, I don't think that's any more fair than what  you're saying I'm doing.

    I don't feel like you do agree with innocent until proven guilty at all, based on what you're said here.
    And obviously I think that if Spacey did do what he's being accused of, I don't think your conclusions after that are fair. They would be if there was an established pattern of behaviour, but there isn't (yet).
    unfortunately, part of what is happening to him consequence-wise are his own doing with his idiotic statement. I would have sympathy for the man if he came out and said "I absolutely did not do this" or "I did this, and I am so sorry". not explained it away as being drunk and then deflecting with coming out of the closet. 

    well you can believe what you want I suppose, but you'd be dead wrong. DEAD. WRONG. (see my previous comment about Cosby). I'm about as forgiving and innocent until proven guilty as you can get. just ask @Thirty Bills Unpaid
    I'm doing my best to wear you down though! I just need a few more years.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 18,778
    edited November 2017
    PJ_Soul said:
    I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt to anyone more than the other. The problem is that the consequences for Spacey are too serious to be giving the benfit of the doubt more to the accuser. I feel I'm being equal as far as that goes, while everyone else is giving the benefit of the doubt to the accuser. Under the specific circumstances, I don't think that's any more fair than what  you're saying I'm doing.

    I don't feel like you do agree with innocent until proven guilty at all, based on what you're said here.
    And obviously I think that if Spacey did do what he's being accused of, I don't think your conclusions after that are fair. They would be if there was an established pattern of behaviour, but there isn't (yet).
    unfortunately, part of what is happening to him consequence-wise are his own doing with his idiotic statement. I would have sympathy for the man if he came out and said "I absolutely did not do this" or "I did this, and I am so sorry". not explained it away as being drunk and then deflecting with coming out of the closet. 

    well you can believe what you want I suppose, but you'd be dead wrong. DEAD. WRONG. (see my previous comment about Cosby). I'm about as forgiving and innocent until proven guilty as you can get. just ask @Thirty Bills Unpaid
    I'm doing my best to wear you down though! I just need a few more years.
    you've worn down too many. I need to stick to my guns and represent the white hats. or the black hats. which am I again?
    Headstones Fan Boy
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,586
    edited November 2017
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So has anyone discussed the obvious yet? That Spacey is being destroyed for one unproven accusation from 30 years ago that was sent to Buzzfeed, when, after 11 accusations of sexual assault, 2 accusations by 13 year olds of rape, and a recorded confession of being a repeat sexual predator, Trump was still elected President of the United States of America, and there is absolutely no rule against that being the case?
    Anyone?
    well that's pretty obvious, as you said. but what's your point? we all know that Trump is a disgusting, vile human being. you won't get an argument there. 
    I actually wanted to start a conversation about the ridiculous, rampant hypocrisy happening right now with regards to this "trend" (no, I don't mean that in a flippant way) of calling people out for past transgressions right now, not specifically talk about how horrible Trump is (although I would be interested to know what people who have defended Trump have to say about this point).
    One thing I've been wondering is where do we draw the line in both who to hate and not hate, and what acts deserve a destroyed life and which ones don't. And how is society at large choosing who to hang and who to kind of ignore? I'm also interested in how social media plays into, as Woody Allen called it, the "witch hunt". I mean, clearly, accusations of RAPE by 13 year olds is not largely frowned upon in American society. If it were, Trump's opponents would have made a way bigger deal of it. That whole thing was basically swept under the rug by pretty much everyone, including those who hate Trump. So how does that fact combine with all this outrage being directed as actors at the moment? Actors who have far less serious and far less convincing accusations thrown their way?
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • dignindignin Posts: 7,381
    edited November 2017

    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    The alleged victim was 14. That means that there is no evidence that Spacey is a pedophile.

    A creep, yes. A pedophile, no.

    So he is not, as of yet, a "Hollywood pedo".
    close enough. and it's illegal. I say it applies. 
    That's not how definitions work but hey, like I said above, you do you.
    I'm glad your world is completely black and white. 
    Haha. Sure.

    I will post it here so you don't sound so ignorant the next time you have a conversation about pedophiles. You're welcome.


    Pedophilia

    This article is about the sexual preference toward prepubescent children. It is not to be confused with hebephilia or ephebophilia.

    Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Although girls typically begin the process of puberty at age 10 or 11, and boys at age 11 or 12, criteria for pedophilia extend the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13. A person who is diagnosed with pedophilia must be at least 16 years old, and at least five years older than the prepubescent child, for the attraction to be diagnosed as pedophilia.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia


  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,366
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So has anyone discussed the obvious yet? That Spacey is being destroyed for one unproven accusation from 30 years ago that was sent to Buzzfeed, when, after 11 accusations of sexual assault, 2 accusations by 13 year olds of rape, and a recorded confession of being a repeat sexual predator, Trump was still elected President of the United States of America, and there is absolutely no rule against that being the case?
    Anyone?
    I think that's been talked to death already. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 18,778
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    The alleged victim was 14. That means that there is no evidence that Spacey is a pedophile.

    A creep, yes. A pedophile, no.

    So he is not, as of yet, a "Hollywood pedo".
    close enough. and it's illegal. I say it applies. 
    That's not how definitions work but hey, like I said above, you do you.
    I'm glad your world is completely black and white. 

    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    The alleged victim was 14. That means that there is no evidence that Spacey is a pedophile.

    A creep, yes. A pedophile, no.

    So he is not, as of yet, a "Hollywood pedo".
    close enough. and it's illegal. I say it applies. 
    That's not how definitions work but hey, like I said above, you do you.
    I'm glad your world is completely black and white. 
    Haha. Sure.

    I will post it here so you don't sound so ignorant the next time you have a conversation about pedophiles. You're welcome.


    Pedophilia

    This article is about the sexual preference toward prepubescent children. It is not to be confused with hebephilia or ephebophilia.

    Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Although girls typically begin the process of puberty at age 10 or 11, and boys at age 11 or 12, criteria for pedophilia extend the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13. A person who is diagnosed with pedophilia must be at least 16 years old, and at least five years older than the prepubescent child, for the attraction to be diagnosed as pedophilia.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia


    we've covered this already. I already said I misspoke when I called him a pedophile. I didn't bring Spacey into this conversation, but I have no issue with including it since the ages of him and his accuser.

    any other "points" you'd like to make to try to make yourself feel superior?
    Headstones Fan Boy
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,586
    edited November 2017
    I definitely do not think this act means Spacey is a pedophile. I think I said before that if we found out this was a trend for Spacey then yeah, maybe he is... But I've since rethought that, with the the help of several things I've read on the subject.... Yeah, this kind of sexual activity is not acceptable, but it also does not amount to pedophilia. I think we need to make sure we really do understand what pedophilia is and isn't. I know it feels righteous to use the term against people we think have been involved in inappropriate sexual situations, but that doesn't actually mean it's okay to throw the accusation around. There are plenty of other, much more accurate labels people could use. I also think misusing the term diminishes the actual crime of pedophilia. Also, using the term inaccurately like this kinda makes every guy who has thought some 14 year old model in a fashion magazine is hot a pedophile.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 18,778
    he is not a pedophile. child molesters and pedophiles aren't even the same thing. again, this has been covered. but seem people like to keep bashing away to make themselves feel bigger.

    if someone wishes to start a new thread about it, go ahead. All I said was I have no issue with this being in this thread given their ages. But no, he is not the classic definition of a pedophile. 

    but I expect someone to condescendingly give me the definition once again in a page or two. 
    Headstones Fan Boy
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,586
    Bashing away to make themselves feel bigger? Wtf are you talking about?
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 18,778
    edited November 2017
    PJ_Soul said:
    Bashing away to make themselves feel bigger? Wtf are you talking about?
    scroll up.  

    "he's a pedophile"
    "no, he's not"
    "you're right. I misspoke"
    "he's not a fucking pedophile, idiot"
    "yeah, I know that. I already explained myself"

    Post edited by HughFreakingDillon on
    Headstones Fan Boy
  • dignindignin Posts: 7,381
    PJ_Soul said:
    I definitely do not think this act means Spacey is a pedophile. I think I said before that if we found out this was a trend for Spacey then yeah, maybe he is... But I've since rethought that, with the the help of several things I've read on the subject.... Yeah, this kind of sexual activity is not acceptable, but it also does not amount to pedophilia. I think we need to make sure we really do understand what pedophilia is and isn't. I know it feels righteous to use the term against people we think have been involved in inappropriate sexual situations, but that doesn't actually mean it's okay to throw the accusation around. There are plenty of other, much more accurate labels people could use. I also think misusing the term diminishes the actual crime of pedophilia. Also, using the term inaccurately like this kinda makes every guy who has thought some 14 year old model in a fashion magazine is hot a pedophile.
    Thank you, you nailed it.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 18,778
    dignin said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I definitely do not think this act means Spacey is a pedophile. I think I said before that if we found out this was a trend for Spacey then yeah, maybe he is... But I've since rethought that, with the the help of several things I've read on the subject.... Yeah, this kind of sexual activity is not acceptable, but it also does not amount to pedophilia. I think we need to make sure we really do understand what pedophilia is and isn't. I know it feels righteous to use the term against people we think have been involved in inappropriate sexual situations, but that doesn't actually mean it's okay to throw the accusation around. There are plenty of other, much more accurate labels people could use. I also think misusing the term diminishes the actual crime of pedophilia. Also, using the term inaccurately like this kinda makes every guy who has thought some 14 year old model in a fashion magazine is hot a pedophile.
    Thank you, you nailed it.
    yeah, it was nailed a few pages ago. 
    Headstones Fan Boy
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,586
    PJ_Soul said:
    Bashing away to make themselves feel bigger? Wtf are you talking about?
    scroll up.  

    "he's a pedophile"
    "no, he's not"
    "you're right. I misspoke"
    "he's not a fucking pedophile, idiot"
    "yeah, I know that. I already explained myself"

    Fine, but I think you're misinterpreting the response. I don't think anyone is doing that to make themselves feel bigger, or even intending to "bash away". I don't think digin is like that. And speaking for myself, I wasn't just addressing you - I was expressing my own opinion on that particular subject for the first time. You aren't the only one throwing the term around. I've probably seen 100 people use the term for Spacey in the past 48 hours.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 18,778
    edited November 2017
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Bashing away to make themselves feel bigger? Wtf are you talking about?
    scroll up.  

    "he's a pedophile"
    "no, he's not"
    "you're right. I misspoke"
    "he's not a fucking pedophile, idiot"
    "yeah, I know that. I already explained myself"

    Fine, but I think you're misinterpreting the response. I don't think anyone is doing that to make themselves feel bigger, or even intending to "bash away". I don't think digin is like that. And speaking for myself, I wasn't just addressing you - I was expressing my own opinion on that particular subject for the first time. You aren't the only one throwing the term around. I've probably seen 100 people use the term for Spacey in the past 48 hours.
    I didn't throw it around. i said it once and admitted my mistake. then expanded on the definition later on. but only your explanation "nailed it". some people have issues with others and decide to disagree with every single thing they say. I don't know why. nor does it concern me. 
    Post edited by HughFreakingDillon on
    Headstones Fan Boy
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,586
    edited November 2017
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Bashing away to make themselves feel bigger? Wtf are you talking about?
    scroll up.  

    "he's a pedophile"
    "no, he's not"
    "you're right. I misspoke"
    "he's not a fucking pedophile, idiot"
    "yeah, I know that. I already explained myself"

    Fine, but I think you're misinterpreting the response. I don't think anyone is doing that to make themselves feel bigger, or even intending to "bash away". I don't think digin is like that. And speaking for myself, I wasn't just addressing you - I was expressing my own opinion on that particular subject for the first time. You aren't the only one throwing the term around. I've probably seen 100 people use the term for Spacey in the past 48 hours.
    I didn't throw it around. i said it once and admitted my mistake. then expanded on the definition later on. but only your explanation "nailed it". some people have issues with others and decide to disagree with every single thing they say. I don't know why. nor does it concern me. 
    I was being hyperbolic man. I meant the term is being thrown around, generally.
    FWIW, it have never and will never just disagree for the sake of disagreeing.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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