what is up with all these hollywood pedos?

PJ_Soul

I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt to anyone more than the other. The problem is that the consequences for Spacey are too serious to be giving the benfit of the doubt more to the accuser. I feel I'm being equal as far as that goes, while everyone else is giving the benefit of the doubt to the accuser. Under the specific circumstances, I don't think that's any more fair than what  you're saying I'm doing.

I don't feel like you do agree with innocent until proven guilty at all, based on what you're said here.
And obviously I think that if Spacey did do what he's being accused of, I don't think your conclusions after that are fair. They would be if there was an established pattern of behaviour, but there isn't (yet).

PJ_Soul

PJ_Soul said:

So has anyone discussed the obvious yet? That Spacey is being destroyed for one unproven accusation from 30 years ago that was sent to Buzzfeed, when, after 11 accusations of sexual assault, 2 accusations by 13 year olds of rape, and a recorded confession of being a repeat sexual predator, Trump was still elected President of the United States of America, and there is absolutely no rule against that being the case?

Anyone?

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt to anyone more than the other. The problem is that the consequences for Spacey are too serious to be giving the benfit of the doubt more to the accuser. I feel I'm being equal as far as that goes, while everyone else is giving the benefit of the doubt to the accuser. Under the specific circumstances, I don't think that's any more fair than what  you're saying I'm doing.

I don't feel like you do agree with innocent until proven guilty at all, based on what you're said here.
And obviously I think that if Spacey did do what he's being accused of, I don't think your conclusions after that are fair. They would be if there was an established pattern of behaviour, but there isn't (yet).

unfortunately, part of what is happening to him consequence-wise are his own doing with his idiotic statement. I would have sympathy for the man if he came out and said "I absolutely did not do this" or "I did this, and I am so sorry". not explained it away as being drunk and then deflecting with coming out of the closet. 

well you can believe what you want I suppose, but you'd be dead wrong. DEAD. WRONG. (see my previous comment about Cosby). I'm about as forgiving and innocent until proven guilty as you can get. just ask @Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

PJ_Soul said:

So has anyone discussed the obvious yet? That Spacey is being destroyed for one unproven accusation from 30 years ago that was sent to Buzzfeed, when, after 11 accusations of sexual assault, 2 accusations by 13 year olds of rape, and a recorded confession of being a repeat sexual predator, Trump was still elected President of the United States of America, and there is absolutely no rule against that being the case?

Anyone?

well that's pretty obvious, as you said. but what's your point? we all know that Trump is a disgusting, vile human being. you won't get an argument there. 

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt to anyone more than the other. The problem is that the consequences for Spacey are too serious to be giving the benfit of the doubt more to the accuser. I feel I'm being equal as far as that goes, while everyone else is giving the benefit of the doubt to the accuser. Under the specific circumstances, I don't think that's any more fair than what  you're saying I'm doing.

I don't feel like you do agree with innocent until proven guilty at all, based on what you're said here.
And obviously I think that if Spacey did do what he's being accused of, I don't think your conclusions after that are fair. They would be if there was an established pattern of behaviour, but there isn't (yet).

benefit of doubt should not sway to either. it should be equal until all facts are known. the consequence is unfortunate, but when things like this become public knowledge, it's the level of outrage that is there/isn't there determines those consequences. they are different for each and every person, based on many factors. 

I think his response, as I said, is largely to blame for his current level of consequence. 

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt to anyone more than the other. The problem is that the consequences for Spacey are too serious to be giving the benfit of the doubt more to the accuser. I feel I'm being equal as far as that goes, while everyone else is giving the benefit of the doubt to the accuser. Under the specific circumstances, I don't think that's any more fair than what  you're saying I'm doing.

I don't feel like you do agree with innocent until proven guilty at all, based on what you're said here.
And obviously I think that if Spacey did do what he's being accused of, I don't think your conclusions after that are fair. They would be if there was an established pattern of behaviour, but there isn't (yet).

unfortunately, part of what is happening to him consequence-wise are his own doing with his idiotic statement. I would have sympathy for the man if he came out and said "I absolutely did not do this" or "I did this, and I am so sorry". not explained it away as being drunk and then deflecting with coming out of the closet. 

well you can believe what you want I suppose, but you'd be dead wrong. DEAD. WRONG. (see my previous comment about Cosby). I'm about as forgiving and innocent until proven guilty as you can get. just ask @Thirty Bills Unpaid

I'm doing my best to wear you down though! I just need a few more years.

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt to anyone more than the other. The problem is that the consequences for Spacey are too serious to be giving the benfit of the doubt more to the accuser. I feel I'm being equal as far as that goes, while everyone else is giving the benefit of the doubt to the accuser. Under the specific circumstances, I don't think that's any more fair than what  you're saying I'm doing.

I don't feel like you do agree with innocent until proven guilty at all, based on what you're said here.
And obviously I think that if Spacey did do what he's being accused of, I don't think your conclusions after that are fair. They would be if there was an established pattern of behaviour, but there isn't (yet).

unfortunately, part of what is happening to him consequence-wise are his own doing with his idiotic statement. I would have sympathy for the man if he came out and said "I absolutely did not do this" or "I did this, and I am so sorry". not explained it away as being drunk and then deflecting with coming out of the closet. 

well you can believe what you want I suppose, but you'd be dead wrong. DEAD. WRONG. (see my previous comment about Cosby). I'm about as forgiving and innocent until proven guilty as you can get. just ask @Thirty Bills Unpaid

I'm doing my best to wear you down though! I just need a few more years.

you've worn down too many. I need to stick to my guns and represent the white hats. or the black hats. which am I again?

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

PJ_Soul said:

So has anyone discussed the obvious yet? That Spacey is being destroyed for one unproven accusation from 30 years ago that was sent to Buzzfeed, when, after 11 accusations of sexual assault, 2 accusations by 13 year olds of rape, and a recorded confession of being a repeat sexual predator, Trump was still elected President of the United States of America, and there is absolutely no rule against that being the case?

Anyone?

well that's pretty obvious, as you said. but what's your point? we all know that Trump is a disgusting, vile human being. you won't get an argument there. 

I actually wanted to start a conversation about the ridiculous, rampant hypocrisy happening right now with regards to this "trend" (no, I don't mean that in a flippant way) of calling people out for past transgressions right now, not specifically talk about how horrible Trump is (although I would be interested to know what people who have defended Trump have to say about this point).
One thing I've been wondering is where do we draw the line in both who to hate and not hate, and what acts deserve a destroyed life and which ones don't. And how is society at large choosing who to hang and who to kind of ignore? I'm also interested in how social media plays into, as Woody Allen called it, the "witch hunt". I mean, clearly, accusations of RAPE by 13 year olds is not largely frowned upon in American society. If it were, Trump's opponents would have made a way bigger deal of it. That whole thing was basically swept under the rug by pretty much everyone, including those who hate Trump. So how does that fact combine with all this outrage being directed as actors at the moment? Actors who have far less serious and far less convincing accusations thrown their way?

dignin

HughFreakingDillon said

dignin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

dignin said:

The alleged victim was 14. That means that there is no evidence that Spacey is a pedophile.

A creep, yes. A pedophile, no.

So he is not, as of yet, a "Hollywood pedo".

close enough. and it's illegal. I say it applies. 

That's not how definitions work but hey, like I said above, you do you.

I'm glad your world is completely black and white. 

Haha. Sure.

I will post it here so you don't sound so ignorant the next time you have a conversation about pedophiles. You're welcome.

Pedophilia

This article is about the sexual preference toward prepubescent children. It is not to be confused with hebephilia or ephebophilia.

Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Although girls typically begin the process of puberty at age 10 or 11, and boys at age 11 or 12, criteria for pedophilia extend the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13. A person who is diagnosed with pedophilia must be at least 16 years old, and at least five years older than the prepubescent child, for the attraction to be diagnosed as pedophilia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

oftenreading

PJ_Soul said:

PJ_Soul said:

So has anyone discussed the obvious yet? That Spacey is being destroyed for one unproven accusation from 30 years ago that was sent to Buzzfeed, when, after 11 accusations of sexual assault, 2 accusations by 13 year olds of rape, and a recorded confession of being a repeat sexual predator, Trump was still elected President of the United States of America, and there is absolutely no rule against that being the case?

Anyone?

I think that's been talked to death already. 

HughFreakingDillon

dignin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

dignin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

dignin said:

The alleged victim was 14. That means that there is no evidence that Spacey is a pedophile.

A creep, yes. A pedophile, no.

So he is not, as of yet, a "Hollywood pedo".

close enough. and it's illegal. I say it applies. 

That's not how definitions work but hey, like I said above, you do you.

I'm glad your world is completely black and white. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

dignin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

dignin said:

The alleged victim was 14. That means that there is no evidence that Spacey is a pedophile.

A creep, yes. A pedophile, no.

So he is not, as of yet, a "Hollywood pedo".

close enough. and it's illegal. I say it applies. 

That's not how definitions work but hey, like I said above, you do you.

I'm glad your world is completely black and white. 

Haha. Sure.

I will post it here so you don't sound so ignorant the next time you have a conversation about pedophiles. You're welcome.

Pedophilia

This article is about the sexual preference toward prepubescent children. It is not to be confused with hebephilia or ephebophilia.

Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Although girls typically begin the process of puberty at age 10 or 11, and boys at age 11 or 12, criteria for pedophilia extend the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13. A person who is diagnosed with pedophilia must be at least 16 years old, and at least five years older than the prepubescent child, for the attraction to be diagnosed as pedophilia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

we've covered this already. I already said I misspoke when I called him a pedophile. I didn't bring Spacey into this conversation, but I have no issue with including it since the ages of him and his accuser.

any other "points" you'd like to make to try to make yourself feel superior?

PJ_Soul

I definitely do not think this act means Spacey is a pedophile. I think I said before that if we found out this was a trend for Spacey then yeah, maybe he is... But I've since rethought that, with the the help of several things I've read on the subject.... Yeah, this kind of sexual activity is not acceptable, but it also does not amount to pedophilia. I think we need to make sure we really do understand what pedophilia is and isn't. I know it feels righteous to use the term against people we think have been involved in inappropriate sexual situations, but that doesn't actually mean it's okay to throw the accusation around. There are plenty of other, much more accurate labels people could use. I also think misusing the term diminishes the actual crime of pedophilia. Also, using the term inaccurately like this kinda makes every guy who has thought some 14 year old model in a fashion magazine is hot a pedophile.

HughFreakingDillon

he is not a pedophile. child molesters and pedophiles aren't even the same thing. again, this has been covered. but seem people like to keep bashing away to make themselves feel bigger.

if someone wishes to start a new thread about it, go ahead. All I said was I have no issue with this being in this thread given their ages. But no, he is not the classic definition of a pedophile. 

but I expect someone to condescendingly give me the definition once again in a page or two. 

PJ_Soul

Bashing away to make themselves feel bigger? Wtf are you talking about?

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

Bashing away to make themselves feel bigger? Wtf are you talking about?

scroll up.  

"he's a pedophile"
"no, he's not"
"you're right. I misspoke"
"he's not a fucking pedophile, idiot"
"yeah, I know that. I already explained myself"

dignin

PJ_Soul said:

I definitely do not think this act means Spacey is a pedophile. I think I said before that if we found out this was a trend for Spacey then yeah, maybe he is... But I've since rethought that, with the the help of several things I've read on the subject.... Yeah, this kind of sexual activity is not acceptable, but it also does not amount to pedophilia. I think we need to make sure we really do understand what pedophilia is and isn't. I know it feels righteous to use the term against people we think have been involved in inappropriate sexual situations, but that doesn't actually mean it's okay to throw the accusation around. There are plenty of other, much more accurate labels people could use. I also think misusing the term diminishes the actual crime of pedophilia. Also, using the term inaccurately like this kinda makes every guy who has thought some 14 year old model in a fashion magazine is hot a pedophile.

Thank you, you nailed it.

HughFreakingDillon

dignin said:

PJ_Soul said:

I definitely do not think this act means Spacey is a pedophile. I think I said before that if we found out this was a trend for Spacey then yeah, maybe he is... But I've since rethought that, with the the help of several things I've read on the subject.... Yeah, this kind of sexual activity is not acceptable, but it also does not amount to pedophilia. I think we need to make sure we really do understand what pedophilia is and isn't. I know it feels righteous to use the term against people we think have been involved in inappropriate sexual situations, but that doesn't actually mean it's okay to throw the accusation around. There are plenty of other, much more accurate labels people could use. I also think misusing the term diminishes the actual crime of pedophilia. Also, using the term inaccurately like this kinda makes every guy who has thought some 14 year old model in a fashion magazine is hot a pedophile.

Thank you, you nailed it.

yeah, it was nailed a few pages ago. 

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Bashing away to make themselves feel bigger? Wtf are you talking about?

scroll up.  

"he's a pedophile"
"no, he's not"
"you're right. I misspoke"
"he's not a fucking pedophile, idiot"
"yeah, I know that. I already explained myself"

Fine, but I think you're misinterpreting the response. I don't think anyone is doing that to make themselves feel bigger, or even intending to "bash away". I don't think digin is like that. And speaking for myself, I wasn't just addressing you - I was expressing my own opinion on that particular subject for the first time. You aren't the only one throwing the term around. I've probably seen 100 people use the term for Spacey in the past 48 hours.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Bashing away to make themselves feel bigger? Wtf are you talking about?

scroll up.  

"he's a pedophile"
"no, he's not"
"you're right. I misspoke"
"he's not a fucking pedophile, idiot"
"yeah, I know that. I already explained myself"

Fine, but I think you're misinterpreting the response. I don't think anyone is doing that to make themselves feel bigger, or even intending to "bash away". I don't think digin is like that. And speaking for myself, I wasn't just addressing you - I was expressing my own opinion on that particular subject for the first time. You aren't the only one throwing the term around. I've probably seen 100 people use the term for Spacey in the past 48 hours.

I didn't throw it around. i said it once and admitted my mistake. then expanded on the definition later on. but only your explanation "nailed it". some people have issues with others and decide to disagree with every single thing they say. I don't know why. nor does it concern me. 

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Bashing away to make themselves feel bigger? Wtf are you talking about?

scroll up.  

"he's a pedophile"
"no, he's not"
"you're right. I misspoke"
"he's not a fucking pedophile, idiot"
"yeah, I know that. I already explained myself"

Fine, but I think you're misinterpreting the response. I don't think anyone is doing that to make themselves feel bigger, or even intending to "bash away". I don't think digin is like that. And speaking for myself, I wasn't just addressing you - I was expressing my own opinion on that particular subject for the first time. You aren't the only one throwing the term around. I've probably seen 100 people use the term for Spacey in the past 48 hours.

I didn't throw it around. i said it once and admitted my mistake. then expanded on the definition later on. but only your explanation "nailed it". some people have issues with others and decide to disagree with every single thing they say. I don't know why. nor does it concern me. 

I was being hyperbolic man. I meant the term is being thrown around, generally.
FWIW, it have never and will never just disagree for the sake of disagreeing.