The most troubling part about Bill and Monica for me is that while Monica may have been a "consenting adult", the relationship would be considered inappropriate (regardless of Bill's marital status) simply due to Bill being in a position of authority over her. Most schools/universities and businesses prohibit any sort of romantic or sexual relationship between someone in power or authority, and their subordinate, or teacher & student. There is a conflict of interest, and it is also difficult to determine whether consent is truly consent, or if the "consenting" party is simply bowing to the will of the person with authority over them. So I don't consider Bill & Monica a typical case of consensual cigars and pearl necklaces.
I understand what you're saying, but the thing is, it overlooks the fact that sometimes the subordinate is the one taking advantage of the relationship when it's consensual just as much as the person in authority is, and I think that is the case with Clinton/Lewinsky. Sure, maybe Clinton could get some tail because of his position of power... but do not assume there aren't plenty of people, women especially, who are very happy and willing to use sex to try and climb the ladder or to just sort of "get in there" politically (not to mention all the people who are (also) simply horny, get off on inappropriate sexual relationships and/or risky sexual behaviour, and/or get off on being with powerful people). I personally feel like there is no reason to assume that the subordinate is AUTOMATICALLY a victim in all cases, and no reason to think that is the case in this particular case. I think that is kind of naive, and also kind of enforces a false victim mentality, which undercuts real victims.
Oh, I understand what you're saying as well. And Monica could absolutely have been the instigator and aggressor and was drawn to Bill's power. In business you hear of people "sleeping their way to the top" sometimes, and there are certainly opportunists who would do that. I just think that with Clinton being the most powerful man in the world at the time, he should probably have been a bit more cautious about banging the help. I don't consider Bill to be some sort of sexual predator. I just consider his relationship with Monica to be highly inappropriate - and not in a prudish, moralistic way. It was inappropriate due to the nature of their relationship outside of whatever sexy time they were having. Which is why I said that I don't consider Bill & Monica to be a typical, consensual relationship.
Lol, yeah, well I think people who cheat on their spouses are scumbags in any case, and yes, it was of course extremely careless and icky for him to be doing that in the White House. I just don't feel like there is a victim in that case. I also think that it's a private matter. I mean, I'd LOVE for world leaders to actually be good people.... I also know that 98% of them are NOT good people. It is a sad, depressing fact of life now. That's why I almost never trust any politicians. With few exceptions, all politicians in my mind are acceptable only in a relative sense. Like, that scumbag isn't as big a scumbag as that other one. I wish VERY VERY MUCH that this wasn't the case. But government has systemically ensured that only scumbags can get to the top (98% of the time). Given that, I simply don't think there is much point is getting all indignant about a President or any other politician cheating on his wife or running around banging others consensually, assuming it's not actually affecting their leadership or their decisions. I figure that stuff is the least of our worries when it comes to these people. I have known a LOT of people who have cheated and a LOT of people who have engaged in inappropriate sexual activity. If we decide to weed everyone who has done that stuff out of government we wouldn't really have any government at all. Now, when that kind of shit actually gets in the way of governing/policy/law or causes conflicts of interest, then we have a problem, and that is when it became a problem with Clinton as far as I'm concerned, when he lied under oath. We cannot tolerate a federal leader who will lie under oath (though America certainly did and continues to do so). I would MUCH prefer to focus on leaders who are sexual predators over those who are just horny jackasses.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
The most troubling part about Bill and Monica for me is that while Monica may have been a "consenting adult", the relationship would be considered inappropriate (regardless of Bill's marital status) simply due to Bill being in a position of authority over her. Most schools/universities and businesses prohibit any sort of romantic or sexual relationship between someone in power or authority, and their subordinate, or teacher & student. There is a conflict of interest, and it is also difficult to determine whether consent is truly consent, or if the "consenting" party is simply bowing to the will of the person with authority over them. So I don't consider Bill & Monica a typical case of consensual cigars and pearl necklaces.
Wait a second, can you prove that there was no pearl necklace?
So it turns out it was Charlie Sheen who raped Corey Haim ...
Oh wow... but why doesn't that sound surprising? Damn...
There is absolutely no evidence of this being true FYI. The supposed victim is dead. I don't think this random accusation thrown out by some random dude who wasn't even there can hold any water. I mean, it could be true... but are people ready to condemn people of rape on the basis of some dude saying a dead guy once said something to him about an assault that happened 30+ years ago? If so, totally innocent people should be freaking out.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I simply can't grasp why people keep bringing up Bill/Monica in the same context as sexual misconduct/harassment/assault. As PJ Soul stated, as has been stated ad nauseum here, that was consensual. Gross? yes, but still consensual. it's not even in the same universe. But since he was a democrat, they need SOMETHING. the only thing he did wrong in that instance was lying about it under oath. but the act itself was not criminal in any way,shape, or form.
the speculation of how he treated other women, on the other hand..........
You guys thinking consensual matters in terms of workplace sexual harassment is part of the problem. Will not be solved until that kind of thinking is eradicated. He had ultimate power and had an intern blow him. There is no greater workplace power disparity. As shown by the fact that she got dragged through the mud and he and his enabler ended up where?
And that that ignores his history of rape which only now the libs are acknowledging. This culture will not change until that line of thinking is changed.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
I simply can't grasp why people keep bringing up Bill/Monica in the same context as sexual misconduct/harassment/assault. As PJ Soul stated, as has been stated ad nauseum here, that was consensual. Gross? yes, but still consensual. it's not even in the same universe. But since he was a democrat, they need SOMETHING. the only thing he did wrong in that instance was lying about it under oath. but the act itself was not criminal in any way,shape, or form.
the speculation of how he treated other women, on the other hand..........
You guys thinking consensual matters in terms of workplace sexual harassment is part of the problem. Will not be solved until that kind of thinking is eradicated. He had ultimate power and had an intern blow him. There is no greater workplace power disparity. As shown by the fact that she got dragged through the mud and he and his enabler ended up where?
And that that ignores his history of rape which only now the libs are acknowledging. This culture will not change until that line of thinking is changed.
There is not such thing as "consensual" in terms of workplace sexual harassment. There is consensual sexual relations, and then there is sexual harassment. I already clearly explained why I think your perspective doesn't work as a blanket statement.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Girl Scouts of the USA issued a warning to parents this holiday season, asking them to think twice before forcing their daughters to hug relatives at gatherings.
“Think of it this way, telling your child that she owes someone a hug either just because she hasn’t seen this person in a while or because they gave her a gift can set the stage for her questioning whether she ‘owes’ another person any type of physical affection when they have bought her dinner or done something else seemingly nice for her later in life,” reads the post on the Girl Scouts’ website.
The organization’s missive to parents comes as allegations of sexual misconduct by men ring out from every industry, including Hollywood, politics and the media.
Past research also suggests that nearly one in three episodes of sexual abuse of a child is perpetrated by a family member.
The Girl Scouts' post encourages parents to offer their daughters ways to show gratitude that do not require physical contact, including "a smile, a high-five, or even an air kiss."
Dr. Janet Taylor, a psychiatrist based in New York City and Sarasota, Fla., said parents should be careful to not create "a mass hysteria about physical contact with loved ones," especially during the holiday season.
"As parents, we have to use common sense and also realize that it’s never too early to start a conversation about good touch and bad touch," said Taylor. "But also we don’t want to overstep our boundaries so our children are not afraid of who they should not be afraid of."
She added, "The awareness of unwanted contact that we have right now is needed ... I just caution parents about limiting family attachment and that kind of loving space that a lot of time only happens at the holidays."
Girl Scouts of the USA issued a warning to parents this holiday season, asking them to think twice before forcing their daughters to hug relatives at gatherings.
“Think of it this way, telling your child that she owes someone a hug either just because she hasn’t seen this person in a while or because they gave her a gift can set the stage for her questioning whether she ‘owes’ another person any type of physical affection when they have bought her dinner or done something else seemingly nice for her later in life,” reads the post on the Girl Scouts’ website.
The organization’s missive to parents comes as allegations of sexual misconduct by men ring out from every industry, including Hollywood, politics and the media.
Past research also suggests that nearly one in three episodes of sexual abuse of a child is perpetrated by a family member.
The Girl Scouts' post encourages parents to offer their daughters ways to show gratitude that do not require physical contact, including "a smile, a high-five, or even an air kiss."
Dr. Janet Taylor, a psychiatrist based in New York City and Sarasota, Fla., said parents should be careful to not create "a mass hysteria about physical contact with loved ones," especially during the holiday season.
"As parents, we have to use common sense and also realize that it’s never too early to start a conversation about good touch and bad touch," said Taylor. "But also we don’t want to overstep our boundaries so our children are not afraid of who they should not be afraid of."
She added, "The awareness of unwanted contact that we have right now is needed ... I just caution parents about limiting family attachment and that kind of loving space that a lot of time only happens at the holidays."
Girl Scouts of the USA issued a warning to parents this holiday season, asking them to think twice before forcing their daughters to hug relatives at gatherings.
“Think of it this way, telling your child that she owes someone a hug either just because she hasn’t seen this person in a while or because they gave her a gift can set the stage for her questioning whether she ‘owes’ another person any type of physical affection when they have bought her dinner or done something else seemingly nice for her later in life,” reads the post on the Girl Scouts’ website.
The organization’s missive to parents comes as allegations of sexual misconduct by men ring out from every industry, including Hollywood, politics and the media.
Past research also suggests that nearly one in three episodes of sexual abuse of a child is perpetrated by a family member.
The Girl Scouts' post encourages parents to offer their daughters ways to show gratitude that do not require physical contact, including "a smile, a high-five, or even an air kiss."
Dr. Janet Taylor, a psychiatrist based in New York City and Sarasota, Fla., said parents should be careful to not create "a mass hysteria about physical contact with loved ones," especially during the holiday season.
"As parents, we have to use common sense and also realize that it’s never too early to start a conversation about good touch and bad touch," said Taylor. "But also we don’t want to overstep our boundaries so our children are not afraid of who they should not be afraid of."
She added, "The awareness of unwanted contact that we have right now is needed ... I just caution parents about limiting family attachment and that kind of loving space that a lot of time only happens at the holidays."
Girl Scouts of the USA issued a warning to parents this holiday season, asking them to think twice before forcing their daughters to hug relatives at gatherings.
“Think of it this way, telling your child that she owes someone a hug either just because she hasn’t seen this person in a while or because they gave her a gift can set the stage for her questioning whether she ‘owes’ another person any type of physical affection when they have bought her dinner or done something else seemingly nice for her later in life,” reads the post on the Girl Scouts’ website.
The organization’s missive to parents comes as allegations of sexual misconduct by men ring out from every industry, including Hollywood, politics and the media.
Past research also suggests that nearly one in three episodes of sexual abuse of a child is perpetrated by a family member.
The Girl Scouts' post encourages parents to offer their daughters ways to show gratitude that do not require physical contact, including "a smile, a high-five, or even an air kiss."
Dr. Janet Taylor, a psychiatrist based in New York City and Sarasota, Fla., said parents should be careful to not create "a mass hysteria about physical contact with loved ones," especially during the holiday season.
"As parents, we have to use common sense and also realize that it’s never too early to start a conversation about good touch and bad touch," said Taylor. "But also we don’t want to overstep our boundaries so our children are not afraid of who they should not be afraid of."
She added, "The awareness of unwanted contact that we have right now is needed ... I just caution parents about limiting family attachment and that kind of loving space that a lot of time only happens at the holidays."
Is this what it has come to? Warnings not to hug relatives? My lord. Our world gets more fucked everyday.
No. It's warnings not to force kids to hug people they don't want to hug, and I agree with that. They can certainly hug people if they choose to.
I agree with it too. I have seen lots of parents literally force children to hug and kiss people they clearly don't want to hug or kiss, and I always thought this was pretty fucked up TBH. I don't think anyone should ever feel obligated to hug or kiss people. Physical affection should be 100% voluntary and sincere 100% of the time.... Whatever the girl scouts are trying to say, I don't think this really belongs in the pedophiles thread though... I mean, I really don't think there is any research to prove that kids who are forced to give auntie May and uncle Bob a begrudging hug and kiss on the cheek are more likely to be victims of pedophilia.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
4/28/16- Philly, PA
4/29/16- Philly, PA
5/1/16- NYC
5/2/16- NYC
9/2/18- Boston, MA
9/4/18- Boston, MA
9/14/22- Camden, NJ
9/7/24- Philly, PA
9/9/24- Philly, PA
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly. PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
I really liked him as an actor. He is an amazing outstanding actor. And his acting in this video is perfect. But yes, it's kind of scary and after watching it, I realized, I would maybe not believe one single word he says… I mean he could/will play a role in the court room so you will never get the truth…
Even without this sad circumstances , he seems scary in this video... lol
I just heard a snippet of it talking about Kelly and Aaliyah and that the tour bus knew they were having sex. I think the whole world knew that when they got married...
I was always surprised when he would put out a new single and the radio or MTV played it. The guy was a known creep and was shocked that people still supported him.
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F Me In The Brain
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Oh wow... but why doesn't that sound surprising?
Damn...
I started a new thread because my comment didn't really fit here.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
And that that ignores his history of rape which only now the libs are acknowledging. This culture will not change until that line of thinking is changed.
I already clearly explained why I think your perspective doesn't work as a blanket statement.
Girl Scouts of the USA issued a warning to parents this holiday season, asking them to think twice before forcing their daughters to hug relatives at gatherings.
“Think of it this way, telling your child that she owes someone a hug either just because she hasn’t seen this person in a while or because they gave her a gift can set the stage for her questioning whether she ‘owes’ another person any type of physical affection when they have bought her dinner or done something else seemingly nice for her later in life,” reads the post on the Girl Scouts’ website.
The organization’s missive to parents comes as allegations of sexual misconduct by men ring out from every industry, including Hollywood, politics and the media.
One in nine girls under the age of 18 experiences sexual abuse or assault at the hands of an adult, according to data shared by the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network (RAINN), an anti-sexual assault organization.
Past research also suggests that nearly one in three episodes of sexual abuse of a child is perpetrated by a family member.
The Girl Scouts' post encourages parents to offer their daughters ways to show gratitude that do not require physical contact, including "a smile, a high-five, or even an air kiss."
Dr. Janet Taylor, a psychiatrist based in New York City and Sarasota, Fla., said parents should be careful to not create "a mass hysteria about physical contact with loved ones," especially during the holiday season.
"As parents, we have to use common sense and also realize that it’s never too early to start a conversation about good touch and bad touch," said Taylor. "But also we don’t want to overstep our boundaries so our children are not afraid of who they should not be afraid of."
She added, "The awareness of unwanted contact that we have right now is needed ... I just caution parents about limiting family attachment and that kind of loving space that a lot of time only happens at the holidays."
The Girl Scouts’ membership includes 1.8 million girls, according to its website.
gosh...
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
4/28/16- Philly, PA
4/29/16- Philly, PA
5/1/16- NYC
5/2/16- NYC
9/2/18- Boston, MA
9/4/18- Boston, MA
9/14/22- Camden, NJ
9/7/24- Philly, PA
9/9/24- Philly, PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
Kevin is building up the set to the oval office in his basement as we speak.
But yes, it's kind of scary and after watching it, I realized, I would maybe not believe one single word he says…
I mean he could/will play a role in the court room so you will never get the truth…
Even without this sad circumstances , he seems scary in this video... lol
I just heard a snippet of it talking about Kelly and Aaliyah and that the tour bus knew they were having sex. I think the whole world knew that when they got married...
I was always surprised when he would put out a new single and the radio or MTV played it. The guy was a known creep and was shocked that people still supported him.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/jan/07/drake-kisses-fan-17-ogden-theater-denver-colorado-2010?CMP=fb_gu&fbclid=IwAR36GZwqDbWd6V1ozdv8YNIlZy80AFDD97bdGENu5LuBiUOvOo2W3RIymUA