Las Vegas massacre.

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  • lastexitlondon
    lastexitlondon Posts: 14,898
    Thank you brainlux. Truly i was thinking i seem to agree with your  opinions on these boards. And the fact that you reply to what i wrote reinforces this. We are from a similar path and life experience and without that we could be different or ignorant but really our paths have led to a place of understanding and no stigma amongst other sufferers. Infact im off to a group i now attend to do exactly what you recommend as a way forward. I have been concious and active for 10 years getting councilling and help. I guess how this is all relevant to the thread is that at some point these people who shoot people could take responsibility for their feelings or anxiety or depression and in a healthy way reach out but society doesn't allow men ,from my experience to reach out to each other or work colleagues. 
    I was a bricklayer. Imagine the environment. Not a chance i could be seen to cry or be scared. Or fear. "Thats gay" is the typical response. Thats is a massive part of this massacre issue. 


    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,663
    lastexitlondon said:
    Thank you brainlux. Truly i was thinking i seem to agree with your  opinions on these boards. And the fact that you reply to what i wrote reinforces this. We are from a similar path and life experience and without that we could be different or ignorant but really our paths have led to a place of understanding and no stigma amongst other sufferers. Infact im off to a group i now attend to do exactly what you recommend as a way forward. I have been concious and active for 10 years getting councilling and help. I guess how this is all relevant to the thread is that at some point these people who shoot people could take responsibility for their feelings or anxiety or depression and in a healthy way reach out but society doesn't allow men ,from my experience to reach out to each other or work colleagues. 
    I was a bricklayer. Imagine the environment. Not a chance i could be seen to cry or be scared. Or fear. "Thats gay" is the typical response. Thats is a massive part of this massacre issue. 
    Nicely said, lastexitlondon.  I could see the parallels in our paths as well.  And you're so right-- its tough in our cultures for men to show feelings or admit to need some help or having feelings.  I've had jobs like that too where no way do you show emotion, let alone cry.  I hope that attitude is changing.  I think it is somewhat.

    Good luck with your group!  You are courageous and wise to seek help.  Well done! 
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • camsjam
    camsjam Posts: 375
    It's not easy for women either especially  in the workplace.  can't be seen as overly sensitive, too emotional or weak. But can't be too strong either because some people's perception is a cold bitch.  It's sad. You both seem to be nice decent guys. Hang in there.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    camsjam said:
    It's not easy for women either especially  in the workplace.  can't be seen as overly sensitive, too emotional or weak. But can't be too strong either because some people's perception is a cold bitch.  It's sad. You both seem to be nice decent guys. Hang in there.
    Be the cold bitch lol
    You should be 100% confident that anyone who interprets your strength as such is a weak individual who is jealous of your strength.
    That goes double for the men who interpret it that way.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    mickeyrat said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    mickeyrat said:
    JimmyV said:
    Go Beavers said:
    Cliffy6745 said:
    This woman is incredibly credible and smart when it comes to ISIS.  A lot of interesting things on her timeline.

    https://twitter.com/rcallimachi

    If he had any connection to isis, it would already be out. 
    And even if they are somehow involved and the shooter converted to Islam six months ago as they claim (which I doubt) he did so with this attack in mind. This was a crime he wanted to commit. If ISIS somehow provided him with some crazed justification for it in his mind, he was still already radicalized six months ago. He wanted to murder people and he went looking for a reason to do so.


    the suicide kinda rules this out.

    How so? Suicide has been the modus operandi for ISIS.

    I think ISIS had nothing to do with this shitwad's event, but not because the shit coward committed suicide versus look at other human beings after his disgrace.


    not by gunshot.  abomination in islam

    suicide bombing yes in that ideology, considered martyrdom.

    but just plain vanilla suicide? simply to  avoid accountability? nope.


    only he knew why. this was about control.

    There is definitely a difference in the 'suicides'- one as a mechanism to use the individual's planned death as a weapon... the other to cowardly escape the shame, guilt and other repercussions from an obscene act (however... as the culminating moment in an act where many 'infidels' were murdered).

    I just wonder if Islam formally accounts for the differences? From what I have come to understand, Allah is the ultimate judge and there is latitude afforded to people in some cases.  

    Again... I also feel ISIS had nothing to do with this madman's madness.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • gvn2fly1421
    gvn2fly1421 Posts: 935
    Definitely not reading through this entire thread, but I saw this morning that Fenway Park was one location he scouted out.  I know PJ had two shows there last year.  Not saying that was one thing he scouted out as the Red Sox play there 82 games but kind of scary nonetheless. 
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    anyone think the public we ever see the shooters video footage? i havent been following too closely but didnt he have recording devices set up or just baby monitors?
    how about the hotel security videos? think the public will see any of those?
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,410
    JC29856 said:
    anyone think the public we ever see the shooters video footage? i havent been following too closely but didnt he have recording devices set up or just baby monitors?
    how about the hotel security videos? think the public will see any of those?
    I hope not. Shit like that should not ever be released to the Public. I can see it being shown to law enforcement and government agencies, but like Columbine or any other shooting, there's no reason to release it. It serves no purpose and may encourage copy cat behavior more than the incident itself does.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,430
    tbergs said:
    JC29856 said:
    anyone think the public we ever see the shooters video footage? i havent been following too closely but didnt he have recording devices set up or just baby monitors?
    how about the hotel security videos? think the public will see any of those?
    I hope not. Shit like that should not ever be released to the Public. I can see it being shown to law enforcement and government agencies, but like Columbine or any other shooting, there's no reason to release it. It serves no purpose and may encourage copy cat behavior more than the incident itself does.


    whats been reported is these cameras were used as surveillance so he knew who was coming up behind him and down the hall.

    jc seems to suggest he was taping  what he was doing.

    either way, no, none of it should ever be released.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,830
    mickeyrat said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    mickeyrat said:
    JimmyV said:
    Go Beavers said:
    Cliffy6745 said:
    This woman is incredibly credible and smart when it comes to ISIS.  A lot of interesting things on her timeline.

    https://twitter.com/rcallimachi

    If he had any connection to isis, it would already be out. 
    And even if they are somehow involved and the shooter converted to Islam six months ago as they claim (which I doubt) he did so with this attack in mind. This was a crime he wanted to commit. If ISIS somehow provided him with some crazed justification for it in his mind, he was still already radicalized six months ago. He wanted to murder people and he went looking for a reason to do so.


    the suicide kinda rules this out.

    How so? Suicide has been the modus operandi for ISIS.

    I think ISIS had nothing to do with this shitwad's event, but not because the shit coward committed suicide versus look at other human beings after his disgrace.


    not by gunshot.  abomination in islam

    suicide bombing yes in that ideology, considered martyrdom.

    but just plain vanilla suicide? simply to  avoid accountability? nope.


    only he knew why. this was about control.
    I'm far from convinced ISIS had anything to do with it. But I don't think the suicide rules it out. Would you really put it passed ISIS to encourage/train/fund/whatever an individual to complete an attack like this and not teach their theology? Seems very possible to me.

    They seem to have uncovered zero evidence that ISIS was involved (other than them claiming it), but just saying suicide wouldn't be a factor in ruling it out for me.
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    mickeyrat said:
    tbergs said:
    JC29856 said:
    anyone think the public we ever see the shooters video footage? i havent been following too closely but didnt he have recording devices set up or just baby monitors?
    how about the hotel security videos? think the public will see any of those?
    I hope not. Shit like that should not ever be released to the Public. I can see it being shown to law enforcement and government agencies, but like Columbine or any other shooting, there's no reason to release it. It serves no purpose and may encourage copy cat behavior more than the incident itself does.


    whats been reported is these cameras were used as surveillance so he knew who was coming up behind him and down the hall.

    jc seems to suggest he was taping  what he was doing.

    either way, no, none of it should ever be released.
    I could see releasing some of the video (if any exists) to disassemble any notion or arguments of conspiracies if needs be.  They may also be used for training law enforcement personnel or security personnel.  I do see the hesitation, though, as these videos have essentially become a type of entertainment...which, in my opinion, is a factor in what causes similar incidents in the first place :(  
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    The conspiracy nuts are already acting as if the hotel security footage is gone.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited October 2017
    It has been reported that the sicko “intended to escape” and most likely had help from others.  Where those conclusions have been drawn from are going to be vague to anyone not directly involved with the investigation.  If true, though, that suggests that this is not an isolated situation where some random madman just “snapped”.  The fact that he had scouted several other locations also supports the theory of a greater agenda.  The pieces are starting to come together and in a scary way.  The information being released so far suggests something larger at play...Know your exits and be aware of your surroundings people.  
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/04/las-vegas-gunman-stephen-paddock-survive-police
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    PJPOWER said:
    mickeyrat said:
    tbergs said:
    JC29856 said:
    anyone think the public we ever see the shooters video footage? i havent been following too closely but didnt he have recording devices set up or just baby monitors?
    how about the hotel security videos? think the public will see any of those?
    I hope not. Shit like that should not ever be released to the Public. I can see it being shown to law enforcement and government agencies, but like Columbine or any other shooting, there's no reason to release it. It serves no purpose and may encourage copy cat behavior more than the incident itself does.


    whats been reported is these cameras were used as surveillance so he knew who was coming up behind him and down the hall.

    jc seems to suggest he was taping  what he was doing.

    either way, no, none of it should ever be released.
    I could see releasing some of the video (if any exists) to disassemble any notion or arguments of conspiracies if needs be.  They may also be used for training law enforcement personnel or security personnel.  I do see the hesitation, though, as these videos have essentially become a type of entertainment...which, in my opinion, is a factor in what causes similar incidents in the first place :(  
    No amount of information ever convinces conspiracy theorists; they would just argue that the video was altered or didn't capture everything of importance. I see no valid reason for such videos to be released to the public and lots of reasons not to. Evenly tightly controlled access for training law enforcement will inevitably be abused at some point, but in that case the pros probably outweigh the cons. 
     
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    The footage of him lugging the bags up a few at a time should be released.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited October 2017
    oftenreading said:
    PJPOWER said:
    mickeyrat said:
    tbergs said:
    JC29856 said:
    anyone think the public we ever see the shooters video footage? i havent been following too closely but didnt he have recording devices set up or just baby monitors?
    how about the hotel security videos? think the public will see any of those?
    I hope not. Shit like that should not ever be released to the Public. I can see it being shown to law enforcement and government agencies, but like Columbine or any other shooting, there's no reason to release it. It serves no purpose and may encourage copy cat behavior more than the incident itself does.


    whats been reported is these cameras were used as surveillance so he knew who was coming up behind him and down the hall.

    jc seems to suggest he was taping  what he was doing.

    either way, no, none of it should ever be released.
    I could see releasing some of the video (if any exists) to disassemble any notion or arguments of conspiracies if needs be.  They may also be used for training law enforcement personnel or security personnel.  I do see the hesitation, though, as these videos have essentially become a type of entertainment...which, in my opinion, is a factor in what causes similar incidents in the first place :(  
    No amount of information ever convinces conspiracy theorists; they would just argue that the video was altered or didn't capture everything of importance. I see no valid reason for such videos to be released to the public and lots of reasons not to. Evenly tightly controlled access for training law enforcement will inevitably be abused at some point, but in that case the pros probably outweigh the cons. 
     
    Your right there, once some conspiracy theorists get something stuck in their head, there is often nothing that will sway them.  However, it would invalidate their theories to anyone else that likes to be informed.  I guess it would just depend on the content of the tapes as well.  For example, if he pledged allegiance to some crazy fringe group on the video, then releasing it may help in the delegitimization and of said group and would raise awareness for the public.  I’m not 100% sure they should or should not be released at this point.  I guess that’s the point that I’m trying to get to, lol
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    I'm all for transparency. Release everything.
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,598
    edited October 2017
    There is no security footage anywhere that will dissuade many conspiracy theorists from believing the conspiracy theory they have already decided is 100% true.
    Post edited by JimmyV on
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,410
    PJPOWER said:
    It has been reported that the sicko “intended to escape” and most likely had help from others.  Where those conclusions have been drawn from are going to be vague to anyone not directly involved with the investigation.  If true, though, that suggests that this is not an isolated situation where some random madman just “snapped”.  The fact that he had scouted several other locations also supports the theory of a greater agenda.  The pieces are starting to come together and in a scary way.  The information being released so far suggests something larger at play...Know your exits and be aware of your surroundings people.  
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/04/las-vegas-gunman-stephen-paddock-survive-police
    So basically, be in fear for any large outdoor event. The NY marathon and Macy's Parade will need heavy security this year in that case.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    JimmyV said:
    There is no security footage anywhere that will dissuade many conspiracy theorists from believing the conspiracy theory they have already decided is 100% true.
    There ought to be some people on the edge of belief who can be brought back to reason.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?

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