Police abuse

mace1229 · September 2017

I wish there was video before this. At one point he said he was looking at a gun pointed at his face. If that wasn't exaggerated then its pretty bad. The rest of the video he just says his gun was out. If it was just unholstered at his side then its less of a big deal. I've had cops come question me with their guns at their side when we were out hiking one time, my buddy was pissed but it didn't both me, they left it at their side while they asked us a couple questions. But no reason to point it at him if he did.

CM189191 · September 2017

mace1229 said:

I wish there was video before this. At one point he said he was looking at a gun pointed at his face. If that wasn't exaggerated then its pretty bad. The rest of the video he just says his gun was out. If it was just unholstered at his side then its less of a big deal. I've had cops come question me with their guns at their side when we were out hiking one time, my buddy was pissed but it didn't both me, they left it at their side while they asked us a couple questions. But no reason to point it at him if he did.

Easy solution to this:
step 1: mandatory body cams for all cops, running full time
there is no step 2

mace1229 · September 2017

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

I wish there was video before this. At one point he said he was looking at a gun pointed at his face. If that wasn't exaggerated then its pretty bad. The rest of the video he just says his gun was out. If it was just unholstered at his side then its less of a big deal. I've had cops come question me with their guns at their side when we were out hiking one time, my buddy was pissed but it didn't both me, they left it at their side while they asked us a couple questions. But no reason to point it at him if he did.

Easy solution to this:
step 1: mandatory body cams for all cops, running full time
there is no step 2

I think the issue is finding cameras that are small enough but also can run for 8+ hours without have to record over themselves or need recharging. And do that without making the department go bankrupt, many departments are still recovering from hiring and pay freezes from 10 years ago.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · September 2017

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

I wish there was video before this. At one point he said he was looking at a gun pointed at his face. If that wasn't exaggerated then its pretty bad. The rest of the video he just says his gun was out. If it was just unholstered at his side then its less of a big deal. I've had cops come question me with their guns at their side when we were out hiking one time, my buddy was pissed but it didn't both me, they left it at their side while they asked us a couple questions. But no reason to point it at him if he did.

Easy solution to this:
step 1: mandatory body cams for all cops, running full time
there is no step 2

I think the issue is finding cameras that are small enough but also can run for 8+ hours without have to record over themselves or need recharging. And do that without making the department go bankrupt, many departments are still recovering from hiring and pay freezes from 10 years ago.

It is an issue that requires public funding.

So... take from one area of public funding and divert there? Or add to the levels of public funding?

To be fair... most of the ardent police critics are not opposed to higher taxes to properly fund a police department. They are asking for accountability and prepared to contribute from their paycheque to do so.

CM189191 · September 2017

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

I wish there was video before this. At one point he said he was looking at a gun pointed at his face. If that wasn't exaggerated then its pretty bad. The rest of the video he just says his gun was out. If it was just unholstered at his side then its less of a big deal. I've had cops come question me with their guns at their side when we were out hiking one time, my buddy was pissed but it didn't both me, they left it at their side while they asked us a couple questions. But no reason to point it at him if he did.

Easy solution to this:
step 1: mandatory body cams for all cops, running full time
there is no step 2

I think the issue is finding cameras that are small enough but also can run for 8+ hours without have to record over themselves or need recharging. And do that without making the department go bankrupt, many departments are still recovering from hiring and pay freezes from 10 years ago.

You know what else is expensive?

Philando Castile Family Reaches $3 Million Settlement

tbergs · September 2017

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

I wish there was video before this. At one point he said he was looking at a gun pointed at his face. If that wasn't exaggerated then its pretty bad. The rest of the video he just says his gun was out. If it was just unholstered at his side then its less of a big deal. I've had cops come question me with their guns at their side when we were out hiking one time, my buddy was pissed but it didn't both me, they left it at their side while they asked us a couple questions. But no reason to point it at him if he did.

Easy solution to this:
step 1: mandatory body cams for all cops, running full time
there is no step 2

I think the issue is finding cameras that are small enough but also can run for 8+ hours without have to record over themselves or need recharging. And do that without making the department go bankrupt, many departments are still recovering from hiring and pay freezes from 10 years ago.

You know what else is expensive?

Philando Castile Family Reaches $3 Million Settlement

You've proven the opposite point. There was full squad audio and video of that stop. Maybe not from a body cam specifically, but a camera. Body cams won't prevent large lawsuits. My guess is they would exonerate most officers from a criminal charge, but do nothing to dissuade large lawsuits. Sure, they could deter asshole cops, but that's not where a lot of these lawsuit come from. They stem from heat of the moment bad decisions.

Just like the death penalty and stiffer sentencing don't deter crime completely. Training and higher hiring standards would be a better place to spend the money.

rgambs · September 2017

mace1229 said:

I wish there was video before this. At one point he said he was looking at a gun pointed at his face. If that wasn't exaggerated then its pretty bad. The rest of the video he just says his gun was out. If it was just unholstered at his side then its less of a big deal. I've had cops come question me with their guns at their side when we were out hiking one time, my buddy was pissed but it didn't both me, they left it at their side while they asked us a couple questions. But no reason to point it at him if he did.

Good point.
Unholstered and pointed are night and day.

I wouldn't take issue with a weapon drawn but not aimed, though it might be a little disturbing.
Pointed at my body?
Oh fuck no, are you fucking kidding me asshole?

Smellyman · September 2017

From the same twitter thread.

Cops and their power trips

Another, taking a mans money? Issue a citation and move on.

Shyner · September 2017

I was physically abused by an officer in my teens , it sucks to be manhandled that way. Police officers risk ther lives and i am appreciative but force is used often times when it shouldn't be.
There's got to be a better uniform behavioral teaching and a realization from them to sacrifice ego and well being for sincere protective services.
We are all just lambs and no one is better than another. Let equality light the path to freedom.
Into the wild

rgambs · September 2017

David Kassick.
Complying with demands, face down, hands out and empty, shot in the back.
Officer Maerkle acquitted, of course.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · September 2017

rgambs said:

David Kassick.
Complying with demands, face down, hands out and empty, shot in the back.
Officer Maerkle acquitted, of course.

Not quite as black and white as you try and make it be.

He ran. He was only compliant when he was caught and tasered. And he wasn't super compliant- the video shows even when he was caught... he kept reaching underneath himself when he was told not to (leaving the officer to think he might be reaching for a weapon).

rgambs · September 2017

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

David Kassick.
Complying with demands, face down, hands out and empty, shot in the back.
Officer Maerkle acquitted, of course.

Not quite as black and white as you try and make it be.

He ran. He was only compliant when he was caught and tasered. And he wasn't super compliant- the video shows even when he was caught... he kept reaching underneath himself when he was told not to (leaving the officer to think he might be reaching for a weapon).

I guess I'm confused.
I saw a video with a hysterical officer shouting at a man on the ground to get on the ground, shouting at a man with his hands out to put his hands out, tasing him for 30 seconds and then shooting him in the back as he complies with both commands.

You saw a video where an officer's life was threatened?

Thirty Bills Unpaid · September 2017

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

David Kassick.
Complying with demands, face down, hands out and empty, shot in the back.
Officer Maerkle acquitted, of course.

Not quite as black and white as you try and make it be.

He ran. He was only compliant when he was caught and tasered. And he wasn't super compliant- the video shows even when he was caught... he kept reaching underneath himself when he was told not to (leaving the officer to think he might be reaching for a weapon).

I guess I'm confused.
I saw a video with a hysterical officer shouting at a man on the ground to get on the ground, shouting at a man with his hands out to put his hands out, tasing him for 30 seconds and then shooting him in the back as he complies with both commands.

You saw a video where an officer's life was threatened?

I haven't seen the full video. I googled the incident and tried twice to see the entire event- unsuccessfully.

The Guardian spoke to the whole video and filled in the blanks. I didn't need to see them after reading of them.

The audio is tough to decipher... but the scene is definitely tense. At this point... I'd say the scene was tense given the guy tried to run away and draw the female officer into a game of cop chase the bad guy.

Your initial post left out some significant information. You made it seem as if the guy was minding his own business and got murdered by a cop. It wasn't quite that way. I'm not necessarily defending her, but I'm saying there are more variables at play that led to an acquittal other than police protecting police.

rgambs · September 2017

My post wasn't meant to give a full account, it was more an exasperated and tired sigh of a comment than an analytic one.

He surely did run into his backyard, he also surely should have survived the day.

I hope she has found a new career.
I'd like to see a system that shifts officers who make these kind of mistakes (and abuses) into other first responder positions.
Mistakes are gonna happen and officer lives ARE on the line, so it's not necessarily appropriate to kill careers in all cases, but neither should some people be allowed to carry a badge and gun.
Shift them over to EMS/Fire so they can continue to serve and have a career, but take the power dynamic away from those who can't handle it.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · September 2017

rgambs said:

My post wasn't meant to give a full account, it was more an exasperated and tired sigh of a comment than an analytic one.

He surely did run into his backyard, he also surely should have survived the day.

I hope she has found a new career.
I'd like to see a system that shifts officers who make these kind of mistakes (and abuses) into other first responder positions.
Mistakes are gonna happen and officer lives ARE on the line, so it's not necessarily appropriate to kill careers in all cases, but neither should some people be allowed to carry a badge and gun.
Shift them over to EMS/Fire so they can continue to serve and have a career, but take the power dynamic away from those who can't handle it.

One of your best posts regarding this issue. It encompasses much and I don't have any issue at all with it given its level of sensibility.

Good job.

PJfanwillneverleave1 · September 2017

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

My post wasn't meant to give a full account, it was more an exasperated and tired sigh of a comment than an analytic one.

He surely did run into his backyard, he also surely should have survived the day.

I hope she has found a new career.
I'd like to see a system that shifts officers who make these kind of mistakes (and abuses) into other first responder positions.
Mistakes are gonna happen and officer lives ARE on the line, so it's not necessarily appropriate to kill careers in all cases, but neither should some people be allowed to carry a badge and gun.
Shift them over to EMS/Fire so they can continue to serve and have a career, but take the power dynamic away from those who can't handle it.

One of your best posts regarding this issue. It encompasses much and I don't have any issue at all with it given its level of sensibility.

Good job.

Ok. At first this makes sense. But if you think about it for a second it makes no sense. Why would anyone want someone shifted down to a trade that "saves lives".

Thirty Bills Unpaid · September 2017

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

My post wasn't meant to give a full account, it was more an exasperated and tired sigh of a comment than an analytic one.

He surely did run into his backyard, he also surely should have survived the day.

I hope she has found a new career.
I'd like to see a system that shifts officers who make these kind of mistakes (and abuses) into other first responder positions.
Mistakes are gonna happen and officer lives ARE on the line, so it's not necessarily appropriate to kill careers in all cases, but neither should some people be allowed to carry a badge and gun.
Shift them over to EMS/Fire so they can continue to serve and have a career, but take the power dynamic away from those who can't handle it.

One of your best posts regarding this issue. It encompasses much and I don't have any issue at all with it given its level of sensibility.

Good job.

Ok. At first this makes sense. But if you think about it for a second it makes no sense. Why would anyone want someone shifted down to a trade that "saves lives".

He's talking about an assisted career change for someone who doesn't have the aptitude for a job they are currently serving in.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't laying out the blueprint for the change effort.

rgambs · September 2017

I left out the part that all first responders should be making about twice what they are making on average right now.
I really think we can afford it as a society, in fact, I think we can't afford not to pay better the folks who put their lives on the line and hold ours in their hands.