The Concept of God
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Smellyman said:Knowing there is no heaven makes me appreciate life NOW and the wonders of the world/universe/nature are a site to behold. How incredibly lucky we are.
It's why I value human and animal life. We all only have a short time here.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
There is great comfort when going through a trying time, giving 120% and the situation still does not go well for you. You say, I've done all I can do, it's up to god now. People of faith will say give it up to god. Or like at the funeral,"knowing loves ones are in heaven" I never found comfort in that.
Now that hat I believe in An energy source is the reason for most things, I still have the comfort of giving 120%, things don't go right, I say I have given it my all, it will either happen or it won't. Maybe belief in God helped me realize that part of life is accepting things you can't change and we don't control everything.
death is very hard, I don't think I will see my friends and family in heaven,. Even when I did believe, it wasn't comforting because I knew it would be so long before I'd get there. (Then there the whole will I get there, judgement day) I think we are here for the moment and when our moment is up and engery is dispersed we enter the next unknown of the prior state and I'm okay because I am here for now, in the present.
i still live with confidence that with my free will, the universe will take my spirit as far as it will go in this life and for whatever happens next.Amy The Great #74594
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RYME said:PJ_Soul said:I know you don't mean any disrespect. And I guess what I've said might be slightly confusing, in that I expressed a sense of jealousy or whatever over the fact that religious folks have this complete surety about living on after death, and having control over their fate after they die. And at the same time, I say that I have a comparable level of comfort and peace as an Atheist. I know those might seem like conflicting statements. However, the reason they aren't is because I find my own comfort and peace in relying on what I think of as truth. While I understand how comforting faith in Heaven must be, and can say that I'm envious of that particular faith, it is counteracted by the fact that I also see it as false. I find no comfort at all in finding faith in something that isn't real.... Not sure how much sense that makes - I know what I mean, lol.
I guess my aim is for people who are not satisfied with what they believe. If you are comfortable with what you believe, then good for you, I respect that and stay put. However, if you are not satisfied with what you believe, or don't exactly know what to believe, than you might, I say might, want to give what I've suggested a try.0 -
PJ_Soul said:I know you don't mean any disrespect. And I guess what I've said might be slightly confusing, in that I expressed a sense of jealousy or whatever over the fact that religious folks have this complete surety about living on after death, and having control over their fate after they die. And at the same time, I say that I have a comparable level of comfort and peace as an Atheist. I know those might seem like conflicting statements. However, the reason they aren't is because I find my own comfort and peace in relying on what I think of as truth. While I understand how comforting faith in Heaven must be, and can say that I'm envious of that particular faith, it is counteracted by the fact that I also see it as false. I find no comfort at all in finding faith in something that isn't real.... Not sure how much sense that makes - I know what I mean, lol.Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall0
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Just gonna toss this out there and probably said something similar within the last 43 PAGES!
Raised Jewish, now agnostic. I am not fierce in what I believe or not - moreso in saying "yeah, I don't know shit....probably will never know".
My mother had a brain stent inserted last evening after a series of small strokes, and within the agonizing hours we were waiting to know whatinthefuck was happening, a very sweet family member offered me a passage from the Torah. A prayer for someone in my mom's position, and for those pulling so fucking hard for that person.
I read the words, and took comfort in them. Cried too. Not so much in the higher power or whatever aspect of it, but the intent. And it helped, despite how unexpectedly choked up I became in the process. That's how I take anyone's prayers offered to me. No arrogance on their part, but, to me at least, an extension of love, and care. Same as "good thoughts". Who am I to refuse that? I think I'd be an asshole to do so.
Offer and receive with grace, even if spectrums differ.
Find a way through and to peace vs preaching. Let others find their way; offer help but back off when needed or when asked. Most do, in my experience.
Again, intent. Just be kind and decent, and give others the room to be as you wish for yourself.0 -
Hedo, wow.
I have had a few visits to the hospital for my Dad. A few scary ones a few controlled ones.
I'm not going to act like I know what you're going thru. I know your intent was not to focus on your mom. Sending beautiful healing vibes to your mom.
Thank you for your post. Thank you for sharing. XoxoOh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.0 -
Cheers, Foxy. So many of us in similar positions. Thank YOU.0
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Hedo, I suck at praying but am good at sending out love and good thoughts. Definitely sending them to you and yours.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
hedonist said:Just gonna toss this out there and probably said something similar within the last 43 PAGES!
Raised Jewish, now agnostic. I am not fierce in what I believe or not - moreso in saying "yeah, I don't know shit....probably will never know".
My mother had a brain stent inserted last evening after a series of small strokes, and within the agonizing hours we were waiting to know whatinthefuck was happening, a very sweet family member offered me a passage from the Torah. A prayer for someone in my mom's position, and for those pulling so fucking hard for that person.
I read the words, and took comfort in them. Cried too. Not so much in the higher power or whatever aspect of it, but the intent. And it helped, despite how unexpectedly choked up I became in the process. That's how I take anyone's prayers offered to me. No arrogance on their part, but, to me at least, an extension of love, and care. Same as "good thoughts". Who am I to refuse that? I think I'd be an asshole to do so.
Offer and receive with grace, even if spectrums differ.
Find a way through and to peace vs preaching. Let others find their way; offer help but back off when needed or when asked. Most do, in my experience.
Again, intent. Just be kind and decent, and give others the room to be as you wish for yourself.
Many things could give comfort though. A poem, lyrics, prophetic words from a friend etc. In this case something from the Torah.
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Thank you both - she's a bit off (moreso than usual) but the woman is still rocking it at 88.
Been a rough road, so if some kind of faith in something, anything, her husband and children? have gotten her through a very dark tunnel, hell to the yeah.
Whatever gets you through the night (or day, or moment), it's alright.........it's alright0 -
hedonist said:Just gonna toss this out there and probably said something similar within the last 43 PAGES!
Raised Jewish, now agnostic. I am not fierce in what I believe or not - moreso in saying "yeah, I don't know shit....probably will never know".
My mother had a brain stent inserted last evening after a series of small strokes, and within the agonizing hours we were waiting to know whatinthefuck was happening, a very sweet family member offered me a passage from the Torah. A prayer for someone in my mom's position, and for those pulling so fucking hard for that person.
I read the words, and took comfort in them. Cried too. Not so much in the higher power or whatever aspect of it, but the intent. And it helped, despite how unexpectedly choked up I became in the process. That's how I take anyone's prayers offered to me. No arrogance on their part, but, to me at least, an extension of love, and care. Same as "good thoughts". Who am I to refuse that? I think I'd be an asshole to do so.
Offer and receive with grace, even if spectrums differ.
Find a way through and to peace vs preaching. Let others find their way; offer help but back off when needed or when asked. Most do, in my experience.
Again, intent. Just be kind and decent, and give others the room to be as you wish for yourself.
second: excellent post
third: someone praying for you because of a life crisis of some kind is not arrogance, you are correct. when I refer to the arrogance of it, I mean when the intent is rather "oh, you don't believe in god, I will pray for you/your soul" kind of thing. like they somehow believe that they are better off than me, or know better than I do, that they can save me (hero complex), that sort of thing. certainly not in the context that you described.
Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall0 -
HughFreakingDillon said:hedonist said:Just gonna toss this out there and probably said something similar within the last 43 PAGES!
Raised Jewish, now agnostic. I am not fierce in what I believe or not - moreso in saying "yeah, I don't know shit....probably will never know".
My mother had a brain stent inserted last evening after a series of small strokes, and within the agonizing hours we were waiting to know whatinthefuck was happening, a very sweet family member offered me a passage from the Torah. A prayer for someone in my mom's position, and for those pulling so fucking hard for that person.
I read the words, and took comfort in them. Cried too. Not so much in the higher power or whatever aspect of it, but the intent. And it helped, despite how unexpectedly choked up I became in the process. That's how I take anyone's prayers offered to me. No arrogance on their part, but, to me at least, an extension of love, and care. Same as "good thoughts". Who am I to refuse that? I think I'd be an asshole to do so.
Offer and receive with grace, even if spectrums differ.
Find a way through and to peace vs preaching. Let others find their way; offer help but back off when needed or when asked. Most do, in my experience.
Again, intent. Just be kind and decent, and give others the room to be as you wish for yourself.
second: excellent post
third: someone praying for you because of a life crisis of some kind is not arrogance, you are correct. when I refer to the arrogance of it, I mean when the intent is rather "oh, you don't believe in god, I will pray for you/your soul" kind of thing. like they somehow believe that they are better off than me, or know better than I do, that they can save me (hero complex), that sort of thing. certainly not in the context that you described.0 -
1) Do believers in God include species other than human? Or do believers "believe" FOR those species... ? Can an inanimate object also believe in an afterlife? example: "When I get torn down, I'll be rebuilt in heaven and will see all the previous buildings that used to stand here before me."
2) And when I read discussion about "if you find peace in your belief, then good on ya", does the same reasoning apply to the people on this planet who believe in the 72 virgins they'll receive in heaven if they crash airplanes into occupied buildings with intent on killing Christians?
Let's go deep. Enough of this kumbaya balogna sandwich, hold the mustard. You NEED mustard! Let's try to put our feet into the shoes of some of the most extreme believers in God (general term implying all gods) and see how we come out on the other end.
I can't fathom any of you saying "ya, if they are happy believing that, then good on them. Who am I to judge?" then there is something seriously wrong.
Vancouver '03, Paramount Theatre '05, Saskatoon '05, Calgary '05, Edmonton '05, Saskatoon '11, Calgary '11, Calgary '13
2010 WATCH IT GO TO FIRE!!0 -
Smellyman said:
If you have 20 minutes give it a watch. If you have another 20 minutes watch Hitchens' speech at the same event.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SJ6AV31MxA
Vancouver '03, Paramount Theatre '05, Saskatoon '05, Calgary '05, Edmonton '05, Saskatoon '11, Calgary '11, Calgary '13
2010 WATCH IT GO TO FIRE!!0 -
Smellyman, I ended up finding & watching that entire debate. Thanks for showing this to us.Vancouver '03, Paramount Theatre '05, Saskatoon '05, Calgary '05, Edmonton '05, Saskatoon '11, Calgary '11, Calgary '13
2010 WATCH IT GO TO FIRE!!0 -
evsgjamm said:1) Do believers in God include species other than human? Or do believers "believe" FOR those species... ? Can an inanimate object also believe in an afterlife? example: "When I get torn down, I'll be rebuilt in heaven and will see all the previous buildings that used to stand here before me."
2) And when I read discussion about "if you find peace in your belief, then good on ya", does the same reasoning apply to the people on this planet who believe in the 72 virgins they'll receive in heaven if they crash airplanes into occupied buildings with intent on killing Christians?
Let's go deep. Enough of this kumbaya balogna sandwich, hold the mustard. You NEED mustard! Let's try to put our feet into the shoes of some of the most extreme believers in God (general term implying all gods) and see how we come out on the other end.
I can't fathom any of you saying "ya, if they are happy believing that, then good on them. Who am I to judge?" then there is something seriously wrong.Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall0 -
evsgjamm said:1) Do believers in God include species other than human? Or do believers "believe" FOR those species... ? Can an inanimate object also believe in an afterlife? example: "When I get torn down, I'll be rebuilt in heaven and will see all the previous buildings that used to stand here before me."
2) And when I read discussion about "if you find peace in your belief, then good on ya", does the same reasoning apply to the people on this planet who believe in the 72 virgins they'll receive in heaven if they crash airplanes into occupied buildings with intent on killing Christians?
Let's go deep. Enough of this kumbaya balogna sandwich, hold the mustard. You NEED mustard! Let's try to put our feet into the shoes of some of the most extreme believers in God (general term implying all gods) and see how we come out on the other end.
I can't fathom any of you saying "ya, if they are happy believing that, then good on them. Who am I to judge?" then there is something seriously wrong.
Years ago, I was working on a cattle ranch in West Texas and we were training a bunch of young colts. The initial training process takes about a week, you get them under saddle, you work getting on and getting off, trying to establish trust. You know before you start a horse typically they've been with their mommy for a year and a half doing whatever they please. So when you try to get on their back for the first time they look at you like maybe you might want to eat them. So it's all about gaining trust & respect. About Day 2 or 3, there's about 12 of us doing this in a relatively small arena. And everybody was on the back of a somewhat nervous colt for the first or second time basically kindergarten for horses. A really good horse trainer was in the center of the arena kind of working with everyone that's on a horse. Everyone's working on developing a relationship with their horse they're on trying to gain confidence. The guy in the center has a flag on a stick, kind of directing traffic, this is day two or three.. Going clockwise then counter-clockwise changing the speed from walk to jog back to walk. You on the horse are working on your horse, neck reining foot cues and hand cues, leg cues. It's great fun. I'm laying the groundwork for what I'm trying to say here. So we're all jogging around the arena counterclockwise and one of the horses spooks gets jumpy & jerky and throws a little fit. The guy on this horse (whose name was Woody Allen not the actor) what's going along right in front of me, got tossed off went up about 2 ft above the horse and then landed flat on his back. It sounded like a 175lb bag of potatoes landing on the ground. Now you've got 12 colts jogging around in a relatively tight space (they're all skittish at this stage) The guy lands on the ground (crunch) and all 12 of the horses stopped on a dime. Including the one that tossed him off. Logically one would think that more horses could easily freak out, or scatter every witch way and the guy might get trampled. But they all stopped and we're calm while a couple guys went in to help Woody up and get him out of there. This is an outdoor fenced-in Arena not like PRCA Rodeo Arenas that have beautiful ground up soft dirt hauled in. The ground that we had to work with was not that nice, made out hard-packed red clay.(much like concrete) Woody suffered a couple of fractured ribs and a stiff sore neck. We were all grateful that that was all it was. Later at the end of the day, we' are all sitting around the campfire drinking a few cold ones, talking about the day. Woody is sitting there right with us, stiff and really sore. We were all amazed how calm the horses became when he hit the ground, and we all agreed that The Good Lord intervened & calmed them all at once, until we could resume. I tried to move my horse forward a little bit out of the way and he would not budge. Other guys said the same thing. That was proof enough for me and all of us that our Lord can communicate with animals when he needs to.
Furthermore as it says in Matthew chapter 10 verse 29 not one Sparrow shall fall on the ground with out your Father. (And then a few comforting verses) verse 30 but the very hairs on your head are all numbered.31 Fear ye not therefore ye are all of more value than many sparrows.
Read it for yourself here if you choose. He is saying that He is aware even when any bird falls on the ground and that you are much more important to that to Him.
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-Chapter-10/Post edited by RYME on0 -
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so if god can intervene when he chooses, why does he let so many people suffer much more often than not? why not communicate with a person when they are about to get murdered or in a car accident?Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall0
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