The Concept of God

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  • kce8
    kce8 Posts: 1,636
    I was raised to believe and was used to go to our catholic church once a week. Spend my childhood with friends around that environment. It was a good childhood.
    Around 15 I became lazy going to church and lost interest...my friends changed etc...but I think I still believed.
    Then life happened and I lost my husband. Everything changed then...also my view on religion changed. Not only because of that, I just can't believe in a "life after death" anymore. I tried, I really did...I even raised my son a little bit in that way. I just thought I should give him a chance to make his own experiences and therefor getting a chance to chose by himself what to believe.
    It didn't help me to be honest. I just don't believe in something like a heaven anymore, what then makes me being a non-believer...lol...And well, I'm actually feeling ok with it.
    There is energy I believe in, a kind of spirit and that every kind of life just goes back into another kind of energy.
    I really second Gervais explanation from Colberts Late Show.

    But I also believe that a lot of human beings just *need* something to believe and to trust in!
    That's probably why all these religions are existing. And bc it's just natural for human beings to try to understand everything, we are finding ways to explain ourselves things like life after death etc. For the really scary parts like that our lifes will just end, we are going to tell ourselves to believe in god and a life in peace without pain and struggles with him and our beloved once... Hey...if it helps...great! Nothing wrong with it.
    People, especially when they are having hard times (from wars, poverty, etc) or even just bc they are like it, need something to hold on, to have faith in to go on. So I believe that's good, as long as it's positiv, like there is a community you can trust in and find hope or help. It doesn't matter how it's called. That's how it should be.

    It's a different story what the institution and so called "church" made out of it over all these years. That's men made.
    This is the "Concept of god" which is made to be abused by humans who try to extract advantages from it. People who make others fight in religious wars for the wrong reasons. That's how humans are too. Selfish, radical, cruel...

    But the basic thoughts about community, charity and offered help in this "Concept of god" could be positive and much needed for everybody.
    So that's what the Concept of god means to me: I try to believe in the good inside of people, community and charity, truth and the willing to be a good loyal person. I don't need a church or a figure like god but good people to believe in. It's the We what is counting...that's god for me...the whole thing... 
    If you need to go to a place to share your believes, great, just do it, and make something good with it.
    If you don't believe in god, that's good too...
    As long as we give people space for themselves and their believes everybody should be fine with it. Just respect each other! Show more love and empathy! Try to forgive...

    Oh well I know...it's too often just wishful thinking... If more people would act a little bit more like that we would live in a much better world...
    I still hope though...for a better world...Maybe I'm a dreamer...
    :smile: :peace:


  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    RYME said:
    Smellyman said:
    Being challenged at make believe ideas isn't a challenge.  Just move the goal posts.
    How do you know that it's all make-believe?
    And since I do believe what I've highlighted here, what does that make me?
    Aside from the silly supernatural bullshit like the talking snake, the global flood and the boat big enough for millions of animals, the man who lives inside a whale, and the parting of the Red Sea...

    It's self-contradictory in it's most basic tenets.
    God can't claim perfection and infallibility and then say, "oops, I need a do-over.  Noah, build a boat."
    God can't be vain and jealous and vengeful and perfect all at the same time.
    God can't claim to be the embodiment of love and banish people to eternal suffering.  
    God can't be omnipotent (or even make a shred of sense) and still need His Son (which is really him) to become human and die (but only for a few days) so that He can forgive other people's sins.
    And so on and so forth.
    It's not even a well-constructed myth.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • goldrush
    goldrush everybody knows this is nowhere Posts: 7,862
    PJ_Soul said:
    If someone believes in God, how could it possibly be a stretch to believe that Heaven is infinite in size??
    Not trying to be facetious but whenever I try to picture an infinite Heaven that has room for everyone that has ever lived I always think of this scene:

    https://youtu.be/GgmaFPR17qY


    “Do not postpone happiness”
    (Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)

    “Put yer good money on the sunrise”
    (Tim Rogers)
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    kce8 said:
    I was raised to believe and was used to go to our catholic church once a week. Spend my childhood with friends around that environment. It was a good childhood.
    Around 15 I became lazy going to church and lost interest...my friends changed etc...but I think I still believed.
    Then life happened and I lost my husband. Everything changed then...also my view on religion changed. Not only because of that, I just can't believe in a "life after death" anymore. I tried, I really did...I even raised my son a little bit in that way. I just thought I should give him a chance to make his own experiences and therefor getting a chance to chose by himself what to believe.
    It didn't help me to be honest. I just don't believe in something like a heaven anymore, what then makes me being a non-believer...lol...And well, I'm actually feeling ok with it.
    There is energy I believe in, a kind of spirit and that every kind of life just goes back into another kind of energy.
    I really second Gervais explanation from Colberts Late Show.

    But I also believe that a lot of human beings just *need* something to believe and to trust in!
    That's probably why all these religions are existing. And bc it's just natural for human beings to try to understand everything, we are finding ways to explain ourselves things like life after death etc. For the really scary parts like that our lifes will just end, we are going to tell ourselves to believe in god and a life in peace without pain and struggles with him and our beloved once... Hey...if it helps...great! Nothing wrong with it.
    People, especially when they are having hard times (from wars, poverty, etc) or even just bc they are like it, need something to hold on, to have faith in to go on. So I believe that's good, as long as it's positiv, like there is a community you can trust in and find hope or help. It doesn't matter how it's called. That's how it should be.

    It's a different story what the institution and so called "church" made out of it over all these years. That's men made.
    This is the "Concept of god" which is made to be abused by humans who try to extract advantages from it. People who make others fight in religious wars for the wrong reasons. That's how humans are too. Selfish, radical, cruel...

    But the basic thoughts about community, charity and offered help in this "Concept of god" could be positive and much needed for everybody.
    So that's what the Concept of god means to me: I try to believe in the good inside of people, community and charity, truth and the willing to be a good loyal person. I don't need a church or a figure like god but good people to believe in. It's the We what is counting...that's god for me...the whole thing... 
    If you need to go to a place to share your believes, great, just do it, and make something good with it.
    If you don't believe in god, that's good too...
    As long as we give people space for themselves and their believes everybody should be fine with it. Just respect each other! Show more love and empathy! Try to forgive...

    Oh well I know...it's too often just wishful thinking... If more people would act a little bit more like that we would live in a much better world...
    I still hope though...for a better world...Maybe I'm a dreamer...
    :smile: :peace:


    Honest, gorgeous and relatable post, kce.  I'm so sorry for the loss of your husband and thank you for your openness in sharing your road.

    This is the kind of thinking, attitude and compassion that is needed, always.
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,299
    I am not anti-science, but the thing about science that makes me laugh is the level of certainty that exists in the scientific community.  Like the earth and humanity is from space dust.  It is a theory.  It could be a great theory, but nonetheless a theory.   
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    bootlegger10 said:
    I am not anti-science, but the thing about science that makes me laugh is the level of certainty that exists in the scientific community.  Like the earth and humanity is from space dust.  It is a theory.  It could be a great theory, but nonetheless a theory.   
    The term "theory" is used differently in science than how it is commonly used. It refers to an explanation of some aspect that has been proven repeatedly by validated measurements. Thus the "theory of evolution" isn't some set of guesses; it is a proven and observable phenomenon. Same with many other theories. There are valid reasons for certainty. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Correct, the definition that you are applying is closer to the reality of a hypothesis, not theory.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    RYME said:
    Smellyman said:
    Being challenged at make believe ideas isn't a challenge.  Just move the goal posts.
    How do you know that it's all make-believe?
    And since I do believe what I've highlighted here, what does that make me?
    The not one shred of evidence does it for me.

    A believer in make believe.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,804
    rgambs said:
    Correct, the definition that you are applying is closer to the reality of a hypothesis, not theory.

    oftenreading said:
    bootlegger10 said:
    I am not anti-science, but the thing about science that makes me laugh is the level of certainty that exists in the scientific community.  Like the earth and humanity is from space dust.  It is a theory.  It could be a great theory, but nonetheless a theory.   
    The term "theory" is used differently in science than how it is commonly used. It refers to an explanation of some aspect that has been proven repeatedly by validated measurements. Thus the "theory of evolution" isn't some set of guesses; it is a proven and observable phenomenon. Same with many other theories. There are valid reasons for certainty. 
    Exactly. 

    bootlegger, just to make it clear, here's the definition:

    "A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world."
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Annafalk
    Annafalk Sweden Posts: 4,004
    Some people seem to think it's wrong to have beliefs. Do you believe in tomorrow? You don't really have any proofs tomorrow will come.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Annafalk said:
    Some people seem to think it's wrong to have beliefs. Do you believe in tomorrow? You don't really have any proofs tomorrow will come.
    We don't need incontrovertible proof, we only need a sufficiency of evidence.  I have more than 10,000 data points of strong, credible evidence that another day follows the preceding one.  Mr Lux has somewhere close to 25,000 such data points.
    Believers of God are not able to produce a single data point that is credible evidence.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    Annafalk said:
    Some people seem to think it's wrong to have beliefs. Do you believe in tomorrow? You don't really have any proofs tomorrow will come.
    Tomorrow has a solid track record
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Annafalk said:
    Some people seem to think it's wrong to have beliefs. Do you believe in tomorrow? You don't really have any proofs tomorrow will come.
    It isn't wrong to have beliefs, it is wrong to use those beliefs (which aren't supported by credible evidence) to influence the world and other people's lives.
    If I believe tomorrow won't come, that's fine for me. 
    But if I believe that and I go out convincing people to believe as I do, I can have intended or unintended consequences.  Maybe people with darkness in their hearts act out their sick desires, maybe people spend all their money, etc.
    It works the same way if I go out and convince people that they will live forever in paradise.  Maybe they will take this fleeting life for granted and waste it.

    If I believe an invisible man in the sky thinks a man can't love another man... whatever, that's weird, but whatever.
    If I say so out loud, if I join an organisation which says so out loud, I am crossing a line which is not fucking cool.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Also, you can't expect your beliefs to be respected just because you believe them.  
    If that were true, I would have to respect Alex Jones and White Supremacist's beliefs.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • RYME
    RYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,904
    edited July 2017
    Smellyman said:
    RYME said:
    Smellyman said:
    Being challenged at make believe ideas isn't a challenge.  Just move the goal posts.
    How do you know that it's all make-believe?
    And since I do believe what I've highlighted here, what does that make me?
    The not one shred of evidence does it for me.

    A believer in make believe.
     And you are welcome to make believe what ever you want. ;)  
    Post edited by RYME on
  • Annafalk
    Annafalk Sweden Posts: 4,004
    rgambs said:
    Also, you can't expect your beliefs to be respected just because you believe them.  
    If that were true, I would have to respect Alex Jones and White Supremacist's beliefs.
    People around the world has a lot of crazy ideas, I never said one have to accept everyone's ideas. But in your world everything needs to be based on evidence? What about hope? Is it ok to have hope?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Annafalk said:
    rgambs said:
    Also, you can't expect your beliefs to be respected just because you believe them.  
    If that were true, I would have to respect Alex Jones and White Supremacist's beliefs.
    People around the world has a lot of crazy ideas, I never said one have to accept everyone's ideas. But in your world everything needs to be based on evidence? What about hope? Is it ok to have hope?
    Sure, hope is fine.
    Hope doesn't cause people to infringe on the human rights of other people, beliefs often do.
    Hope doesn't cause people to think they are chosen or superior, like beliefs often do.

    Many Christians will claim that they don't do either of those, but they are not being honest with themselves.  They are perpetuating a system that absolutely and positively creates suffering in the world.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • RYME
    RYME Wisconsin Posts: 1,904
    edited July 2017
    Annafalk said:
    rgambs said:
    Also, you can't expect your beliefs to be respected just because you believe them.  
    If that were true, I would have to respect Alex Jones and White Supremacist's beliefs.
    People around the world has a lot of crazy ideas, I never said one have to accept everyone's ideas. But in your world everything needs to be based on evidence? What about hope? Is it ok to have hope?
    There's plenty of evdience around for those of us who believe in the reality of God.  Evolving from stardust and that everything is an awesome accident is what doesn't make sense to people who do believe.  And it's people like you Annafalk that gives people like me hope.

    Post edited by RYME on
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    RYME said:
    Annafalk said:
    rgambs said:
    Also, you can't expect your beliefs to be respected just because you believe them.  
    If that were true, I would have to respect Alex Jones and White Supremacist's beliefs.
    People around the world has a lot of crazy ideas, I never said one have to accept everyone's ideas. But in your world everything needs to be based on evidence? What about hope? Is it ok to have hope?
    There's plenty of evdience around for those of us who believe in the reality of God.  Evolving from stardust and that everything is an awesome accident is what doesn't make sense to people who do believe.  And it's people like you Annafalk that gives people like me hope.

    You are confusing evidence with belief.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • ponytd
    ponytd Nashville Posts: 671
    brianlux said:
    ponytd said:
    brianlux said:
    I find it a bit strange that creationists take the word of one book regarding how life came to be on earth when there are literally thousands of others from a scientific viewpoint that explain how it evolved.  The weight of evidence supporting evolution rather than creation is astounding. How does one ignore that?  Once a person understands that, understands something as basic as evolution, it seems to me it would follow that, other than the parts that are verified by other accounts of history, everything else the Bible says would come into question.  A little logic goes a long way.

    And this:  Religion tells people it is wrong to question the Bible.  If there is a God, and that God is benevolent, why would that God punish people for using the intellect they were given to question things, even the Bible which was written by other people?  That makes no sense.  That kind of God would be absurd.
    Evolution and creation are two different things. Evolution is scientific fact. But evolution doesn't explain HOW we were created. Only the evolution process.

    Agreed. I don't think God would punish us for using our brains and questioning. The people that believe that aren't strong enough in their faith and only believe out of fear and are only in it for the wrong reasons. Most likely to be condescending to others
    I think they are the same thing.  I think evolution is how we were created. 

    And where did evolution come from?  It came from "prelife" -- "a chemical system that can lead to information and diversity, and that is capable of selection and mutation, but does not yet have the ability to self-replicate."

    More here:


    Interesting article. Had not heard of the "prelife" concept before. Thanks

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