Should Pearl Jam Play in Israel?
Comments
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Haha, that's rich.BS44325 said:
Radiohead won't either.Halifax2TheMax said:Pearl Jam won't play an apartheid regime state, professor.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
well, they did, albeit briefly and kind of vaguely. at the Milton Keynes show on the LB tour, Ed addressed it. many took his comments as anti-israel, most took it for what it was, just stop fucking killing each other.BS44325 said:
I agree that it is unlikely they'll ever play Israel but I wouldn't exactly call it "solidarity". PJ has never actually wayed in on the issue...none of us have any idea where they stand on BDS. They are friends with Roger Waters but by no means have they endorsed the movement.my2hands said:As far as PJ playing Israel... I don't see that happening any time soon... especially considering Roger Waters stance and the BDS, I think PJ would not hesitate to continue to stand in solidarityBy The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
why the fuck any band would play in any geographical area that is plagued by war is beyond me.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0
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Common sense really.HughFreakingDillon said:why the fuck any band would play in any geographical area that is plagued by war is beyond me."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
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I go back and forth on this, but I'm kinda with him too. I mean, if war crimes is the barometer, no one should play in the US. Ever.BS44325 said:By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
What is he right about? All he did was whine about being called out. After weeks of silence on this, he lays this turd. He didn't even address the topic.
He bitches that others 'think' they have the right to talk down to them, but doesn't care to address Palestinian rights - the basis of the discussion?
He claims to be educated on the topic, yet says he doesn't understand what the problem is with playing there....did he understand the cultural boycott of South Africa? Is he playing dumb?
And then he goes on to bitch about someone being disrespectful, while using the word retard in the same sentence.
Really, really weak, Thom.0 -
He addressed the topic...you just don't like how. Performing his art for his fans in Israel needs not be seen as an endorsement of any Israeli policy. In fact he specifically calls out Netanyahu in the article. It is not his responsibility to weigh in on this subject and he doesn't have to buy in to the BDS movement to seek positive change. If anything he is clearly making the point that BDS is divisive and shuts down the chances for positive change. It is the BDS movement that is being called out. You are being called out.Drowned Out said:What is he right about? All he did was whine about being called out. After weeks of silence on this, he lays this turd. He didn't even address the topic.
He bitches that others 'think' they have the right to talk down to them, but doesn't care to address Palestinian rights - the basis of the discussion?
He claims to be educated on the topic, yet says he doesn't understand what the problem is with playing there....did he understand the cultural boycott of South Africa? Is he playing dumb?
And then he goes on to bitch about someone being disrespectful, while using the word retard in the same sentence.
Really, really weak, Thom.
"All of this creates divisive energy. You're not bringing people together. You're not encouraging dialogue or a sense of understanding. Now if you're talking about trying to make things progress in any society, if you create division, what do you get? You get fucking Theresa May. You get [Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu, you get fucking Trump. That's divisive."
There, There0 -
I was pretty disappointed at his use of that word myself, to be honest.Drowned Out said:What is he right about? All he did was whine about being called out. After weeks of silence on this, he lays this turd. He didn't even address the topic.
He bitches that others 'think' they have the right to talk down to them, but doesn't care to address Palestinian rights - the basis of the discussion?
He claims to be educated on the topic, yet says he doesn't understand what the problem is with playing there....did he understand the cultural boycott of South Africa? Is he playing dumb?
And then he goes on to bitch about someone being disrespectful, while using the word retard in the same sentence.
Really, really weak, Thom.
if he addresses the topic, as he said, all it would start is more Thom bashing. There is no right answer here, and he knows that. He just thinks it's disrespectful that fellow artists went to the media to voice their concerns, instead of doing it face to face. Which I can agree with. All Roger was doing here was calling out one of the bigger musical acts of our generation to further his agenda. Why did he single out Radiohead? Hasn't Cornell played there multiple times? Why didn't he call him out?By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
The problem with Roger is that this has all become too personal for him. The issue is of course important to him but also the idea that his opinion will carry weight with other artists. If someone like Thom York ignores Waters and plays in Israel then why should any up and coming artist listen to Waters. Artists like Thom bursts Roger's bubble of self-importance...he must exert effort to keep his perceived power mystique intact.HughFreakingDillon said:
I was pretty disappointed at his use of that word myself, to be honest.Drowned Out said:What is he right about? All he did was whine about being called out. After weeks of silence on this, he lays this turd. He didn't even address the topic.
He bitches that others 'think' they have the right to talk down to them, but doesn't care to address Palestinian rights - the basis of the discussion?
He claims to be educated on the topic, yet says he doesn't understand what the problem is with playing there....did he understand the cultural boycott of South Africa? Is he playing dumb?
And then he goes on to bitch about someone being disrespectful, while using the word retard in the same sentence.
Really, really weak, Thom.
if he addresses the topic, as he said, all it would start is more Thom bashing. There is no right answer here, and he knows that. He just thinks it's disrespectful that fellow artists went to the media to voice their concerns, instead of doing it face to face. Which I can agree with. All Roger was doing here was calling out one of the bigger musical acts of our generation to further his agenda. Why did he single out Radiohead? Hasn't Cornell played there multiple times? Why didn't he call him out?
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or pretty much any country in the world. surely none in Europe so yea take your cheap shot at the US if it makes you feel betterHughFreakingDillon said:
I go back and forth on this, but I'm kinda with him too. I mean, if war crimes is the barometer, no one should play in the US. Ever.BS44325 said:
and when did playing a show somewhere equate to agreeing with the leadership of said location?Post edited by pjhawks on0 -
Right, because BDS created the division in Israel.
Bringing Israelis together for a concert in Tel Aviv does nothing to promote peace with Palestine. My last hope here is that he at least addresses the occupation from the stage.
'Dialogue and understanding' have been the deceitful calling cards of Israel for decades- particularly since Oslo. This is what Israel wants the world to believe it is engaging in. Its actions prove otherwise.
Thom is repeating Israeli talking points (which could have come from Bibi himself), and ignoring the arguments of the call for BDS. Which means he is ignoring the issue.0 -
I wasn't taking any cheap shot. I was noting the hypocrisy of Roger Waters, who is currently making boatloads of money touring the US.pjhawks said:
or pretty much any country in the world. surely none in Europe so yea take your cheap shot at the US if it makes you feel betterHughFreakingDillon said:
I go back and forth on this, but I'm kinda with him too. I mean, if war crimes is the barometer, no one should play in the US. Ever.BS44325 said:
and when did playing a show somewhere equate to agreeing with the leadership of said location?
And I would tend to agree.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
Playing Israel and ignoring the call to BDS IS viewed by many an endorsement of Israeli politics. And not just on the pro-BDS side. Israeli propagandists repeatedly trot out every artist who performs there as proof of just how normal and cool and euro the country is. Once you make the decision to play there, you have waded into the political minefield that is the occupation of Palestine....whether you like it or not.pjhawks said:
or pretty much any country in the world. surely none in Europe so yea take your cheap shot at the US if it makes you feel betterHughFreakingDillon said:
I go back and forth on this, but I'm kinda with him too. I mean, if war crimes is the barometer, no one should play in the US. Ever.BS44325 said:
and when did playing a show somewhere equate to agreeing with the leadership of said location?
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so Roger played there a few years back, didn't he?By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0
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I'm not aware of an ongoing occupation and ethnic cleansing happening within the US, to which an entire desperate population has requested help to overcome via boycot. If there was one, it would be a separate discussion. The occupation is a relatively unique situation in the world today, and should be treated as such - it is modern day colonialism...knowing our own colonial history should not be a reason to back away from peaceful protest in support of other oppressed peoples.HughFreakingDillon said:
I wasn't taking any cheap shot. I was noting the hypocrisy of Roger Waters, who is currently making boatloads of money touring the US.pjhawks said:
or pretty much any country in the world. surely none in Europe so yea take your cheap shot at the US if it makes you feel betterHughFreakingDillon said:
I go back and forth on this, but I'm kinda with him too. I mean, if war crimes is the barometer, no one should play in the US. Ever.BS44325 said:
and when did playing a show somewhere equate to agreeing with the leadership of said location?
And I would tend to agree.0 -
yes, I'm aware it's not the same. thanks.Drowned Out said:
I'm not aware of an ongoing occupation and ethnic cleansing happening within the US, to which an entire desperate population has requested help to overcome via boycot. If there was one, it would be a separate discussion. The occupation is a relatively unique situation in the world today, and should be treated as such - it is modern day colonialism...knowing our own colonial history should not be a reason to back away from peaceful protest in support of other oppressed peoples.HughFreakingDillon said:
I wasn't taking any cheap shot. I was noting the hypocrisy of Roger Waters, who is currently making boatloads of money touring the US.pjhawks said:
or pretty much any country in the world. surely none in Europe so yea take your cheap shot at the US if it makes you feel betterHughFreakingDillon said:
I go back and forth on this, but I'm kinda with him too. I mean, if war crimes is the barometer, no one should play in the US. Ever.BS44325 said:
and when did playing a show somewhere equate to agreeing with the leadership of said location?
And I would tend to agree.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
No prob. So then...why did you bring it up?
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Yes. He talks about it here.HughFreakingDillon said:so Roger played there a few years back, didn't he?
http://www.haaretz.com/news/1.668705?v=A219AA971B67ECD3327273DFCB11FF56
Coles notes: Calls himself naive for allowing it to be booked in the first place. Since the tickets were already sold, he made changes to his plans for time in Israel once he educated himself on BDS (it was new at the time). Had a great concert but was left with a bitter taste, knowing he had performed to a segregated audience, who went silent when he suggested Israelis should make peace with their neighbours...and has been an activist since.0
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