Should Betsy DeVos be confirmed as Secretary of Education?

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Comments

  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,486
    Free said:

    unsung said:

    Boom!

    HR899 has just been introduced to eliminated the Federal Dept of Education!

    The Bill is one sentence long.

    There, no Dept, no jobs for Betsy. Happy?

    unsung said:

    Boom!

    HR899 has just been introduced to eliminated the Federal Dept of Education!

    The Bill is one sentence long.

    There, no Dept, no jobs for Betsy. Happy?

    Clearly again, you have no kids in public schools. And you have no developmentally disabled kids in public schools. We have federally mandated programs that allow them a fair treatment and education (FAPE, IDEA). That DeVos knows nothing about. But that's OK because she's gonna be busy funneling money from public school funding to her private charter schools that are failing, because there are no regulations. Why not? She's making out big-time here Financially, and that's all she and her family care about.

    I don't currently but if I did they won't be going to public government schools.

    My choice is that and I don't tell anyone what they should do with their children.
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    No
    benjs said:

    vaggar99 said:

    benjs said:

    Am I the only one who sees the resemblance?




    hahah...i see it. what's even funnier is thought of benjs having a sense of humor.
    :) I may not show it here enough, but I'm still human - I love to laugh. Saw Louis CK last week with my girlfriend and we were both in stitches.
    benjs said:

    vaggar99 said:

    benjs said:

    Am I the only one who sees the resemblance?




    hahah...i see it. what's even funnier is thought of benjs having a sense of humor.
    :) I may not show it here enough, but I'm still human - I love to laugh. Saw Louis CK last week with my girlfriend and we were both in stitches.

    Have you seen the show Baskets? I forget what station it's on but has Zach Galifinakas in a dual role and Louie Anderson as a woman.
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited February 2017
    No

    my2hands said:

    I know there are some people in here that work in the education field, I know at least 1 is a teacher. First I would like to thank you, you are appreciated.

    What ate your thoughts on Devos?

    Thanks for asking. I have mixed feelings.

    I don't support the use of federal money for private vouchers without holding those private institutions accountable to the same federal mandates. Besides not liking billionaires who buy their Cabinet appointments, that's my only issue with her.

    Overall I do agree with her in supporting local control of school decision making, even if that means the kids in Montana can bring their guns to school to kill grizzlies. Who am I to question from afar what they want for their kids and community? What the hell do we think the best private schools in America do? The best ones are the best because the teachers themselves write the curriculum, and they answer to their own board of directors in allocating their resources.

    As for all the IDEA hysteria -- talk about gross over-regulation paralyzing the productivity of the workforce-- translate -- keeping good teachers from helping kids. Honestly, I don't even refer kids to special ed anymore. If I suspect a kid has a learning disability, I help the kid on my own and leave the fucking federal government out of it. I haven't seen a single special educator do anything special that I can't do myself to help an LD child learn. IDEA is a joke in so many ways, but I'll leave it there. I don't want my post to be mile long

    So, as with every other cabinet member, we'll just have to watch and see. Ironically, I've just about had it with public education myself, so when DeVos says it sucks -- she's right. I'm so sick of being told to do shit that at best, does not help students, and at worst, actually harms them. If we're lucky, she will shake things up for the better.
    This. WTF. If you're not willing to work with parents or the law in regard to our children who need services? Then leave teaching because you're doing no one favors, but yourself.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,268
    No
    unsung said:

    benjs said:

    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    Jesus will be coming to a public school near you!

    In what way?
    If you know any Christian fundamentalists, they have been quietly excited about trump being president, and of course many voted for him. They're excited, not because they see him as some sort of religious guy, but because they see his policies as a way of facilitating some sort of Christian uprising and God being able to make a presence on earth like never before. It's hard to describe as an outsider, and the fundamentalists are intentionally vague about it, but they are definately excited. It ties into trump's isolationalism and anti- globalism, and also less federal gov involvement in local/state affairs. They see these things as an enemy to their religion somehow. They are also strongly anti-Muslim. They see local control of schools as opening the door to having Christianity in the classroom and will push this through different "religious freedom" policies. You'll see much more of this being pushed very soon. Pence is totally on board with this stuff, and he's the fundamentalist main guy.

    It's hard to watch individuals who believe this talk about it, because they're very passive aggressive. They claim to filled with the love of Jesus, but they're full bore buying into fear oriented beliefs where they're engaged in some mythological struggle of Christianity against everything else. They'll support policies that discriminate and will limit others freedoms because they think they're entitled by God. At the same time, they think they're doing good.
    Well it seems like a far fetched chance that would happen, at least to me. But I could get on board with keeping religion out of public education. But only if it was all religion, not just Christianity.
    I hope it's far fetched, but I'm guessing first up will be school sanctioned "prayer time", incorporating creationism in the curriculum, and Bible based values and mission statements for schools. The fundamentalist have been preparing and waiting for this. They see it as their prayers being answered. And hey, you can't be wrong if God is on your side!
    Well I am not touching the God on side thing but I believe there should be a separation, but it must be for all religions. You can pray, you just can't do it on school property. I would be against teaching of any religion and that includes Islam. Nothing allowed on any of it.
    unsung, have you ever studied any religions? As an atheist at a Jewish day school, I found it fascinating even though I disagreed with much/most of what I was taught. I would never in a million years condone the way it was taught to me, but later in life I found other opportunities to learn about religions that opened my mind to the place that many base their concepts of morality on.

    Not only do I think that teaching of religion is a positive thing, but I think encouraging students to study a religion that isn't their own would be an immensely effective way to teach empathy and combat divisiveness.
    Yes.

    I just don't want it taught in school.
    would you object if the history/facts of religion were taught, as opposed to preaching it?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,486

    unsung said:

    benjs said:

    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    Jesus will be coming to a public school near you!

    In what way?
    If you know any Christian fundamentalists, they have been quietly excited about trump being president, and of course many voted for him. They're excited, not because they see him as some sort of religious guy, but because they see his policies as a way of facilitating some sort of Christian uprising and God being able to make a presence on earth like never before. It's hard to describe as an outsider, and the fundamentalists are intentionally vague about it, but they are definately excited. It ties into trump's isolationalism and anti- globalism, and also less federal gov involvement in local/state affairs. They see these things as an enemy to their religion somehow. They are also strongly anti-Muslim. They see local control of schools as opening the door to having Christianity in the classroom and will push this through different "religious freedom" policies. You'll see much more of this being pushed very soon. Pence is totally on board with this stuff, and he's the fundamentalist main guy.

    It's hard to watch individuals who believe this talk about it, because they're very passive aggressive. They claim to filled with the love of Jesus, but they're full bore buying into fear oriented beliefs where they're engaged in some mythological struggle of Christianity against everything else. They'll support policies that discriminate and will limit others freedoms because they think they're entitled by God. At the same time, they think they're doing good.
    Well it seems like a far fetched chance that would happen, at least to me. But I could get on board with keeping religion out of public education. But only if it was all religion, not just Christianity.
    I hope it's far fetched, but I'm guessing first up will be school sanctioned "prayer time", incorporating creationism in the curriculum, and Bible based values and mission statements for schools. The fundamentalist have been preparing and waiting for this. They see it as their prayers being answered. And hey, you can't be wrong if God is on your side!
    Well I am not touching the God on side thing but I believe there should be a separation, but it must be for all religions. You can pray, you just can't do it on school property. I would be against teaching of any religion and that includes Islam. Nothing allowed on any of it.
    unsung, have you ever studied any religions? As an atheist at a Jewish day school, I found it fascinating even though I disagreed with much/most of what I was taught. I would never in a million years condone the way it was taught to me, but later in life I found other opportunities to learn about religions that opened my mind to the place that many base their concepts of morality on.

    Not only do I think that teaching of religion is a positive thing, but I think encouraging students to study a religion that isn't their own would be an immensely effective way to teach empathy and combat divisiveness.
    Yes.

    I just don't want it taught in school.
    would you object if the history/facts of religion were taught, as opposed to preaching it?
    How do you deal with the atheists?
  • No
    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    benjs said:

    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    Jesus will be coming to a public school near you!

    In what way?
    If you know any Christian fundamentalists, they have been quietly excited about trump being president, and of course many voted for him. They're excited, not because they see him as some sort of religious guy, but because they see his policies as a way of facilitating some sort of Christian uprising and God being able to make a presence on earth like never before. It's hard to describe as an outsider, and the fundamentalists are intentionally vague about it, but they are definately excited. It ties into trump's isolationalism and anti- globalism, and also less federal gov involvement in local/state affairs. They see these things as an enemy to their religion somehow. They are also strongly anti-Muslim. They see local control of schools as opening the door to having Christianity in the classroom and will push this through different "religious freedom" policies. You'll see much more of this being pushed very soon. Pence is totally on board with this stuff, and he's the fundamentalist main guy.

    It's hard to watch individuals who believe this talk about it, because they're very passive aggressive. They claim to filled with the love of Jesus, but they're full bore buying into fear oriented beliefs where they're engaged in some mythological struggle of Christianity against everything else. They'll support policies that discriminate and will limit others freedoms because they think they're entitled by God. At the same time, they think they're doing good.
    Well it seems like a far fetched chance that would happen, at least to me. But I could get on board with keeping religion out of public education. But only if it was all religion, not just Christianity.
    I hope it's far fetched, but I'm guessing first up will be school sanctioned "prayer time", incorporating creationism in the curriculum, and Bible based values and mission statements for schools. The fundamentalist have been preparing and waiting for this. They see it as their prayers being answered. And hey, you can't be wrong if God is on your side!
    Well I am not touching the God on side thing but I believe there should be a separation, but it must be for all religions. You can pray, you just can't do it on school property. I would be against teaching of any religion and that includes Islam. Nothing allowed on any of it.
    unsung, have you ever studied any religions? As an atheist at a Jewish day school, I found it fascinating even though I disagreed with much/most of what I was taught. I would never in a million years condone the way it was taught to me, but later in life I found other opportunities to learn about religions that opened my mind to the place that many base their concepts of morality on.

    Not only do I think that teaching of religion is a positive thing, but I think encouraging students to study a religion that isn't their own would be an immensely effective way to teach empathy and combat divisiveness.
    Yes.

    I just don't want it taught in school.
    would you object if the history/facts of religion were taught, as opposed to preaching it?
    How do you deal with the atheists?
    "There are also some people who do not believe in God. They're called atheists. Moving on..."

    Maybe like that?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,268
    No
    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    benjs said:

    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    Jesus will be coming to a public school near you!

    In what way?
    If you know any Christian fundamentalists, they have been quietly excited about trump being president, and of course many voted for him. They're excited, not because they see him as some sort of religious guy, but because they see his policies as a way of facilitating some sort of Christian uprising and God being able to make a presence on earth like never before. It's hard to describe as an outsider, and the fundamentalists are intentionally vague about it, but they are definately excited. It ties into trump's isolationalism and anti- globalism, and also less federal gov involvement in local/state affairs. They see these things as an enemy to their religion somehow. They are also strongly anti-Muslim. They see local control of schools as opening the door to having Christianity in the classroom and will push this through different "religious freedom" policies. You'll see much more of this being pushed very soon. Pence is totally on board with this stuff, and he's the fundamentalist main guy.

    It's hard to watch individuals who believe this talk about it, because they're very passive aggressive. They claim to filled with the love of Jesus, but they're full bore buying into fear oriented beliefs where they're engaged in some mythological struggle of Christianity against everything else. They'll support policies that discriminate and will limit others freedoms because they think they're entitled by God. At the same time, they think they're doing good.
    Well it seems like a far fetched chance that would happen, at least to me. But I could get on board with keeping religion out of public education. But only if it was all religion, not just Christianity.
    I hope it's far fetched, but I'm guessing first up will be school sanctioned "prayer time", incorporating creationism in the curriculum, and Bible based values and mission statements for schools. The fundamentalist have been preparing and waiting for this. They see it as their prayers being answered. And hey, you can't be wrong if God is on your side!
    Well I am not touching the God on side thing but I believe there should be a separation, but it must be for all religions. You can pray, you just can't do it on school property. I would be against teaching of any religion and that includes Islam. Nothing allowed on any of it.
    unsung, have you ever studied any religions? As an atheist at a Jewish day school, I found it fascinating even though I disagreed with much/most of what I was taught. I would never in a million years condone the way it was taught to me, but later in life I found other opportunities to learn about religions that opened my mind to the place that many base their concepts of morality on.

    Not only do I think that teaching of religion is a positive thing, but I think encouraging students to study a religion that isn't their own would be an immensely effective way to teach empathy and combat divisiveness.
    Yes.

    I just don't want it taught in school.
    would you object if the history/facts of religion were taught, as opposed to preaching it?
    How do you deal with the atheists?
    there's already a class for that: it's called science.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,486
    So do you force them to attend your religion class?
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,767
    edited February 2017
    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    benjs said:

    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    Jesus will be coming to a public school near you!

    In what way?
    If you know any Christian fundamentalists, they have been quietly excited about trump being president, and of course many voted for him. They're excited, not because they see him as some sort of religious guy, but because they see his policies as a way of facilitating some sort of Christian uprising and God being able to make a presence on earth like never before. It's hard to describe as an outsider, and the fundamentalists are intentionally vague about it, but they are definately excited. It ties into trump's isolationalism and anti- globalism, and also less federal gov involvement in local/state affairs. They see these things as an enemy to their religion somehow. They are also strongly anti-Muslim. They see local control of schools as opening the door to having Christianity in the classroom and will push this through different "religious freedom" policies. You'll see much more of this being pushed very soon. Pence is totally on board with this stuff, and he's the fundamentalist main guy.

    It's hard to watch individuals who believe this talk about it, because they're very passive aggressive. They claim to filled with the love of Jesus, but they're full bore buying into fear oriented beliefs where they're engaged in some mythological struggle of Christianity against everything else. They'll support policies that discriminate and will limit others freedoms because they think they're entitled by God. At the same time, they think they're doing good.
    Well it seems like a far fetched chance that would happen, at least to me. But I could get on board with keeping religion out of public education. But only if it was all religion, not just Christianity.
    I hope it's far fetched, but I'm guessing first up will be school sanctioned "prayer time", incorporating creationism in the curriculum, and Bible based values and mission statements for schools. The fundamentalist have been preparing and waiting for this. They see it as their prayers being answered. And hey, you can't be wrong if God is on your side!
    Well I am not touching the God on side thing but I believe there should be a separation, but it must be for all religions. You can pray, you just can't do it on school property. I would be against teaching of any religion and that includes Islam. Nothing allowed on any of it.
    unsung, have you ever studied any religions? As an atheist at a Jewish day school, I found it fascinating even though I disagreed with much/most of what I was taught. I would never in a million years condone the way it was taught to me, but later in life I found other opportunities to learn about religions that opened my mind to the place that many base their concepts of morality on.

    Not only do I think that teaching of religion is a positive thing, but I think encouraging students to study a religion that isn't their own would be an immensely effective way to teach empathy and combat divisiveness.
    Yes.

    I just don't want it taught in school.
    would you object if the history/facts of religion were taught, as opposed to preaching it?
    How do you deal with the atheists?
    You "deal with" the atheists by promoting the pluralistic nature of belief. Whether you believe in a deity, and no matter what messages your deity/deities broadcast, there is value in understanding others' belief systems, where they originate, and how theirs can coexist with yours. You simply can't tell the story of modern history without mentioning religion's role in it, and it's also where most of our concepts of morality come from. Having been a contrarian for much of my life, religion has also been a fantastic launchpad for breeding curiosity, critical thought, and debate skills.

    Edit: And as far as atheism goes, maybe the history of the dissent of religion should be an option too.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,268
    No
    unsung said:

    So do you force them to attend your religion class?

    it would all be under the umbrella of history. again, this wouldn't be preaching. it would be teaching facts.

    and no, I don't think you force anyone to take any type of class like that. I would think it should be an elective, and I don't think it's appropriate at an elementary school level, possibly not even a high school level. maybe some fundamentals at those ages, but not the nitty gritty.
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,255
    I disagree that teaching comparative religions as part of history isn't appropriate for public school years. My daughter had similar teaching in middle school and really enjoyed it. She hoped her high school would have a more in depth course, but alas not at the moment. I know I had instruction in this in high school.

    And I'm an atheist and have no problem learning about various religions. Having an objection to that seems about as logical as saying I don't want to learn about any European counties because I'm Canadian.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,767

    I disagree that teaching comparative religions as part of history isn't appropriate for public school years. My daughter had similar teaching in middle school and really enjoyed it. She hoped her high school would have a more in depth course, but alas not at the moment. I know I had instruction in this in high school.

    And I'm an atheist and have no problem learning about various religions. Having an objection to that seems about as logical as saying I don't want to learn about any European counties because I'm Canadian.

    I'm jealous of how few words you use to convey ideas so effectively. I wish I could master that!
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,268
    No

    I disagree that teaching comparative religions as part of history isn't appropriate for public school years. My daughter had similar teaching in middle school and really enjoyed it. She hoped her high school would have a more in depth course, but alas not at the moment. I know I had instruction in this in high school.

    And I'm an atheist and have no problem learning about various religions. Having an objection to that seems about as logical as saying I don't want to learn about any European counties because I'm Canadian.

    I just meant in the context of how deep you go into the gory detail of religion, and what is appropriate at what age. some of it is really fucked up, and I don't know that I'd really want my 10 year old learning about some of the shit they gloss over in the bible for sunday school purposes.

    I think, on the other hand, it could be incredibly beneficial for the reasons others have stated; learning empathy for others' beliefs at a young age is invaluable to a society that is so torn apart for no other reason than ignorance and fear.
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,118

    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    benjs said:

    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    Jesus will be coming to a public school near you!

    In what way?
    If you know any Christian fundamentalists, they have been quietly excited about trump being president, and of course many voted for him. They're excited, not because they see him as some sort of religious guy, but because they see his policies as a way of facilitating some sort of Christian uprising and God being able to make a presence on earth like never before. It's hard to describe as an outsider, and the fundamentalists are intentionally vague about it, but they are definately excited. It ties into trump's isolationalism and anti- globalism, and also less federal gov involvement in local/state affairs. They see these things as an enemy to their religion somehow. They are also strongly anti-Muslim. They see local control of schools as opening the door to having Christianity in the classroom and will push this through different "religious freedom" policies. You'll see much more of this being pushed very soon. Pence is totally on board with this stuff, and he's the fundamentalist main guy.

    It's hard to watch individuals who believe this talk about it, because they're very passive aggressive. They claim to filled with the love of Jesus, but they're full bore buying into fear oriented beliefs where they're engaged in some mythological struggle of Christianity against everything else. They'll support policies that discriminate and will limit others freedoms because they think they're entitled by God. At the same time, they think they're doing good.
    Well it seems like a far fetched chance that would happen, at least to me. But I could get on board with keeping religion out of public education. But only if it was all religion, not just Christianity.
    I hope it's far fetched, but I'm guessing first up will be school sanctioned "prayer time", incorporating creationism in the curriculum, and Bible based values and mission statements for schools. The fundamentalist have been preparing and waiting for this. They see it as their prayers being answered. And hey, you can't be wrong if God is on your side!
    Well I am not touching the God on side thing but I believe there should be a separation, but it must be for all religions. You can pray, you just can't do it on school property. I would be against teaching of any religion and that includes Islam. Nothing allowed on any of it.
    unsung, have you ever studied any religions? As an atheist at a Jewish day school, I found it fascinating even though I disagreed with much/most of what I was taught. I would never in a million years condone the way it was taught to me, but later in life I found other opportunities to learn about religions that opened my mind to the place that many base their concepts of morality on.

    Not only do I think that teaching of religion is a positive thing, but I think encouraging students to study a religion that isn't their own would be an immensely effective way to teach empathy and combat divisiveness.
    Yes.

    I just don't want it taught in school.
    would you object if the history/facts of religion were taught, as opposed to preaching it?
    How do you deal with the atheists?
    there's already a class for that: it's called science.
    This is my early favorite for post of the year
  • what dreamswhat dreams Posts: 1,040
    edited February 2017
    a5pj said:

    my2hands said:

    I know there are some people in here that work in the education field, I know at least 1 is a teacher. First I would like to thank you, you are appreciated.

    What ate your thoughts on Devos?

    As for all the IDEA hysteria -- talk about gross over-regulation paralyzing the productivity of the workforce-- translate -- keeping good teachers from helping kids. Honestly, I don't even refer kids to special ed anymore. If I suspect a kid has a learning disability, I help the kid on my own and leave the fucking federal government out of it. I haven't seen a single special educator do anything special that I can't do myself to help an LD child learn. IDEA is a joke in so many ways, but I'll leave it there. I don't want my post to be mile long
    Well, not to get into a huge debate about special ed and it's effectiveness, but not referring students who you believe have a disability is going directly against child find. You could easily be opening yourself up to a lawsuit. You may be keeping the student from getting accommodations and protections that they need to learn and grow at the same rate as other "normal" students. There's a lot more to it than just going to see a special ed teacher, which I hope you know.

    I think it's awesome you are going above and beyond to help students who you think might have a disability, most don't, I wish more would. But it might be worth having a discussion with your school psychologist or director of special ed about your process.
    Dude, everytime I go to my sped department, they send me back and say "you haven't done your job." IDEA got an overhaul in 2004 -- in large part due to the over-diagnosis of minorities and students in poverty -- and since then, it's been a nightmare to get kids extra help from special ed. To even start the special ed process now, I have to document every single time I wipe a child''s ass for him. I don't have time for the paperwork, and they don't want to see the kids on their docket. It's fucked.
  • what dreamswhat dreams Posts: 1,040
    edited February 2017
    Free said:

    my2hands said:

    I know there are some people in here that work in the education field, I know at least 1 is a teacher. First I would like to thank you, you are appreciated.

    What ate your thoughts on Devos?

    Thanks for asking. I have mixed feelings.

    I don't support the use of federal money for private vouchers without holding those private institutions accountable to the same federal mandates. Besides not liking billionaires who buy their Cabinet appointments, that's my only issue with her.

    Overall I do agree with her in supporting local control of school decision making, even if that means the kids in Montana can bring their guns to school to kill grizzlies. Who am I to question from afar what they want for their kids and community? What the hell do we think the best private schools in America do? The best ones are the best because the teachers themselves write the curriculum, and they answer to their own board of directors in allocating their resources.

    As for all the IDEA hysteria -- talk about gross over-regulation paralyzing the productivity of the workforce-- translate -- keeping good teachers from helping kids. Honestly, I don't even refer kids to special ed anymore. If I suspect a kid has a learning disability, I help the kid on my own and leave the fucking federal government out of it. I haven't seen a single special educator do anything special that I can't do myself to help an LD child learn. IDEA is a joke in so many ways, but I'll leave it there. I don't want my post to be mile long

    So, as with every other cabinet member, we'll just have to watch and see. Ironically, I've just about had it with public education myself, so when DeVos says it sucks -- she's right. I'm so sick of being told to do shit that at best, does not help students, and at worst, actually harms them. If we're lucky, she will shake things up for the better.
    This. WTF. If you're not willing to work with parents or the law in regard to our children who need services? Then leave teaching because you're doing no one favors, but yourself.
    Never said I didn't work with parents. I work with parents. Had a kid with obvious dyslexia -- parent knew the kid had dyslexia, I knew the kid had dyslexia. Guess what? The fucking school division/government doesn't recognize dyslexia as a learning disorder. So guess who stayed after school to work overtime helping the kid, with the parent's consent but also without the federal government's?

    Fuck you and your judgmental bullshit. Don't you have a special needs child at home? Maybe you should get off the forum and tend to your own child.
    Post edited by what dreams on
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,255
    benjs said:

    I disagree that teaching comparative religions as part of history isn't appropriate for public school years. My daughter had similar teaching in middle school and really enjoyed it. She hoped her high school would have a more in depth course, but alas not at the moment. I know I had instruction in this in high school.

    And I'm an atheist and have no problem learning about various religions. Having an objection to that seems about as logical as saying I don't want to learn about any European counties because I'm Canadian.

    I'm jealous of how few words you use to convey ideas so effectively. I wish I could master that!
    I'm just naturally unfriendly.

    :wink:
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 7,184

    Free said:

    my2hands said:

    I know there are some people in here that work in the education field, I know at least 1 is a teacher. First I would like to thank you, you are appreciated.

    What ate your thoughts on Devos?

    Thanks for asking. I have mixed feelings.

    I don't support the use of federal money for private vouchers without holding those private institutions accountable to the same federal mandates. Besides not liking billionaires who buy their Cabinet appointments, that's my only issue with her.

    Overall I do agree with her in supporting local control of school decision making, even if that means the kids in Montana can bring their guns to school to kill grizzlies. Who am I to question from afar what they want for their kids and community? What the hell do we think the best private schools in America do? The best ones are the best because the teachers themselves write the curriculum, and they answer to their own board of directors in allocating their resources.

    As for all the IDEA hysteria -- talk about gross over-regulation paralyzing the productivity of the workforce-- translate -- keeping good teachers from helping kids. Honestly, I don't even refer kids to special ed anymore. If I suspect a kid has a learning disability, I help the kid on my own and leave the fucking federal government out of it. I haven't seen a single special educator do anything special that I can't do myself to help an LD child learn. IDEA is a joke in so many ways, but I'll leave it there. I don't want my post to be mile long

    So, as with every other cabinet member, we'll just have to watch and see. Ironically, I've just about had it with public education myself, so when DeVos says it sucks -- she's right. I'm so sick of being told to do shit that at best, does not help students, and at worst, actually harms them. If we're lucky, she will shake things up for the better.
    This. WTF. If you're not willing to work with parents or the law in regard to our children who need services? Then leave teaching because you're doing no one favors, but yourself.
    Never said I didn't work with parents. I work with parents. Had a kid with obvious dyslexia -- parent knew the kid had dyslexia, I knew the kid had dyslexia. Guess what? The fucking school division/government doesn't recognize dyslexia as a learning disorder. So guess who stayed after school to work overtime helping the kid, with the parent's consent but also without the federal government's?

    Fuck you and your judgmental bullshit. Don't you have a special needs child at home? Maybe you should get off the forum and tend to your own child.
    Jeez, lighten up. Do you want the government involved or not? Good teachers work with kids to meet their individual needs, as I'm sure you know. Sometimes teachers need to access more resources, and sometimes they don't.
  • vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USAPosts: 3,226
    No
    dreams...you might want to edit your post asap. grounds for getting banned.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504

    Free said:

    my2hands said:

    I know there are some people in here that work in the education field, I know at least 1 is a teacher. First I would like to thank you, you are appreciated.

    What ate your thoughts on Devos?

    Thanks for asking. I have mixed feelings.

    I don't support the use of federal money for private vouchers without holding those private institutions accountable to the same federal mandates. Besides not liking billionaires who buy their Cabinet appointments, that's my only issue with her.

    Overall I do agree with her in supporting local control of school decision making, even if that means the kids in Montana can bring their guns to school to kill grizzlies. Who am I to question from afar what they want for their kids and community? What the hell do we think the best private schools in America do? The best ones are the best because the teachers themselves write the curriculum, and they answer to their own board of directors in allocating their resources.

    As for all the IDEA hysteria -- talk about gross over-regulation paralyzing the productivity of the workforce-- translate -- keeping good teachers from helping kids. Honestly, I don't even refer kids to special ed anymore. If I suspect a kid has a learning disability, I help the kid on my own and leave the fucking federal government out of it. I haven't seen a single special educator do anything special that I can't do myself to help an LD child learn. IDEA is a joke in so many ways, but I'll leave it there. I don't want my post to be mile long

    So, as with every other cabinet member, we'll just have to watch and see. Ironically, I've just about had it with public education myself, so when DeVos says it sucks -- she's right. I'm so sick of being told to do shit that at best, does not help students, and at worst, actually harms them. If we're lucky, she will shake things up for the better.
    This. WTF. If you're not willing to work with parents or the law in regard to our children who need services? Then leave teaching because you're doing no one favors, but yourself.
    Never said I didn't work with parents. I work with parents. Had a kid with obvious dyslexia -- parent knew the kid had dyslexia, I knew the kid had dyslexia. Guess what? The fucking school division/government doesn't recognize dyslexia as a learning disorder. So guess who stayed after school to work overtime helping the kid, with the parent's consent but also without the federal government's?

    Fuck you and your judgmental bullshit. Don't you have a special needs child at home? Maybe you should get off the forum and tend to your own child.
    ohhhh yea.....defiantly a banning offence, I've been banned for less.

    it dosen't matter to me what a man dose for a living you understand..
    as long as his interest's don't conflict with mine.
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 19,669
    edited February 2017
    No

    Free said:

    my2hands said:

    I know there are some people in here that work in the education field, I know at least 1 is a teacher. First I would like to thank you, you are appreciated.

    What ate your thoughts on Devos?

    Thanks for asking. I have mixed feelings.

    I don't support the use of federal money for private vouchers without holding those private institutions accountable to the same federal mandates. Besides not liking billionaires who buy their Cabinet appointments, that's my only issue with her.

    Overall I do agree with her in supporting local control of school decision making, even if that means the kids in Montana can bring their guns to school to kill grizzlies. Who am I to question from afar what they want for their kids and community? What the hell do we think the best private schools in America do? The best ones are the best because the teachers themselves write the curriculum, and they answer to their own board of directors in allocating their resources.

    As for all the IDEA hysteria -- talk about gross over-regulation paralyzing the productivity of the workforce-- translate -- keeping good teachers from helping kids. Honestly, I don't even refer kids to special ed anymore. If I suspect a kid has a learning disability, I help the kid on my own and leave the fucking federal government out of it. I haven't seen a single special educator do anything special that I can't do myself to help an LD child learn. IDEA is a joke in so many ways, but I'll leave it there. I don't want my post to be mile long

    So, as with every other cabinet member, we'll just have to watch and see. Ironically, I've just about had it with public education myself, so when DeVos says it sucks -- she's right. I'm so sick of being told to do shit that at best, does not help students, and at worst, actually harms them. If we're lucky, she will shake things up for the better.
    This. WTF. If you're not willing to work with parents or the law in regard to our children who need services? Then leave teaching because you're doing no one favors, but yourself.
    Never said I didn't work with parents. I work with parents. Had a kid with obvious dyslexia -- parent knew the kid had dyslexia, I knew the kid had dyslexia. Guess what? The fucking school division/government doesn't recognize dyslexia as a learning disorder. So guess who stayed after school to work overtime helping the kid, with the parent's consent but also without the federal government's?

    Fuck you and your judgmental bullshit. Don't you have a special needs child at home? Maybe you should get off the forum and tend to your own child.
    Where and what do you teach?
    I think I m in my fifteenth year teaching history.
    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,118

    Free said:

    my2hands said:

    I know there are some people in here that work in the education field, I know at least 1 is a teacher. First I would like to thank you, you are appreciated.

    What ate your thoughts on Devos?

    Thanks for asking. I have mixed feelings.

    I don't support the use of federal money for private vouchers without holding those private institutions accountable to the same federal mandates. Besides not liking billionaires who buy their Cabinet appointments, that's my only issue with her.

    Overall I do agree with her in supporting local control of school decision making, even if that means the kids in Montana can bring their guns to school to kill grizzlies. Who am I to question from afar what they want for their kids and community? What the hell do we think the best private schools in America do? The best ones are the best because the teachers themselves write the curriculum, and they answer to their own board of directors in allocating their resources.

    As for all the IDEA hysteria -- talk about gross over-regulation paralyzing the productivity of the workforce-- translate -- keeping good teachers from helping kids. Honestly, I don't even refer kids to special ed anymore. If I suspect a kid has a learning disability, I help the kid on my own and leave the fucking federal government out of it. I haven't seen a single special educator do anything special that I can't do myself to help an LD child learn. IDEA is a joke in so many ways, but I'll leave it there. I don't want my post to be mile long

    So, as with every other cabinet member, we'll just have to watch and see. Ironically, I've just about had it with public education myself, so when DeVos says it sucks -- she's right. I'm so sick of being told to do shit that at best, does not help students, and at worst, actually harms them. If we're lucky, she will shake things up for the better.
    This. WTF. If you're not willing to work with parents or the law in regard to our children who need services? Then leave teaching because you're doing no one favors, but yourself.
    Never said I didn't work with parents. I work with parents. Had a kid with obvious dyslexia -- parent knew the kid had dyslexia, I knew the kid had dyslexia. Guess what? The fucking school division/government doesn't recognize dyslexia as a learning disorder. So guess who stayed after school to work overtime helping the kid, with the parent's consent but also without the federal government's?

    Fuck you and your judgmental bullshit. Don't you have a special needs child at home? Maybe you should get off the forum and tend to your own child.
    ohhhh yea.....defiantly a banning offence, I've been banned for less.

    You should he banned for your spelling lol
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    my2hands said:

    Free said:

    my2hands said:

    I know there are some people in here that work in the education field, I know at least 1 is a teacher. First I would like to thank you, you are appreciated.

    What ate your thoughts on Devos?

    Thanks for asking. I have mixed feelings.

    I don't support the use of federal money for private vouchers without holding those private institutions accountable to the same federal mandates. Besides not liking billionaires who buy their Cabinet appointments, that's my only issue with her.

    Overall I do agree with her in supporting local control of school decision making, even if that means the kids in Montana can bring their guns to school to kill grizzlies. Who am I to question from afar what they want for their kids and community? What the hell do we think the best private schools in America do? The best ones are the best because the teachers themselves write the curriculum, and they answer to their own board of directors in allocating their resources.

    As for all the IDEA hysteria -- talk about gross over-regulation paralyzing the productivity of the workforce-- translate -- keeping good teachers from helping kids. Honestly, I don't even refer kids to special ed anymore. If I suspect a kid has a learning disability, I help the kid on my own and leave the fucking federal government out of it. I haven't seen a single special educator do anything special that I can't do myself to help an LD child learn. IDEA is a joke in so many ways, but I'll leave it there. I don't want my post to be mile long

    So, as with every other cabinet member, we'll just have to watch and see. Ironically, I've just about had it with public education myself, so when DeVos says it sucks -- she's right. I'm so sick of being told to do shit that at best, does not help students, and at worst, actually harms them. If we're lucky, she will shake things up for the better.
    This. WTF. If you're not willing to work with parents or the law in regard to our children who need services? Then leave teaching because you're doing no one favors, but yourself.
    Never said I didn't work with parents. I work with parents. Had a kid with obvious dyslexia -- parent knew the kid had dyslexia, I knew the kid had dyslexia. Guess what? The fucking school division/government doesn't recognize dyslexia as a learning disorder. So guess who stayed after school to work overtime helping the kid, with the parent's consent but also without the federal government's?

    Fuck you and your judgmental bullshit. Don't you have a special needs child at home? Maybe you should get off the forum and tend to your own child.
    ohhhh yea.....defiantly a banning offence, I've been banned for less.

    You should he banned for your spelling lol
    HAYYYYYYY, I resemble that remark ! LOL !!!!

    it dosen't matter to me what a man dose for a living you understand..
    as long as his interest's don't conflict with mine.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    American school kids became more stupid under the Obama administration, according to rankings released by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

    They recently released the results of a worldwide exam administered every three years to 15-year-olds in 72 countries. The exam monitors reading, math and science knowledge.

    Based on their findings, the United States saw an 11-point drop in math scores and nearly flat levels for reading and science.

    The Land of the Free, Home of the Brave, fell below the OECD average – and failed to crack the top ten in all three categories.

    In other words, thanks to the Obama administration’s education policies, kids in the Slovac Republic are more proficient in multiplication.

    In fairness, American teenagers may not know long form division - but by golly they know their non-binary gender pronouns. Yes sir, they do!

    But you can't blame the kids for being dumb as rocks.

    Instead of aspiring to greatness, public schools across the fruited plain are programming kids to be mediocre.

    It doesn't matter if Little Johnny thinks five plus four is 12.

    Modern-day classrooms are safe spaces where everybody’s a winner – everybody gets a gold star.

    There's just one problem with that philosophy. When Little Johnny becomes Big Johnny he's going to be living off the taxpayer dime.

    And good luck making change down at the Piggly Wiggly.
    it dosen't matter to me what a man dose for a living you understand..
    as long as his interest's don't conflict with mine.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,268
    No

    American school kids became more stupid under the Obama administration, according to rankings released by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

    They recently released the results of a worldwide exam administered every three years to 15-year-olds in 72 countries. The exam monitors reading, math and science knowledge.

    Based on their findings, the United States saw an 11-point drop in math scores and nearly flat levels for reading and science.

    The Land of the Free, Home of the Brave, fell below the OECD average – and failed to crack the top ten in all three categories.

    In other words, thanks to the Obama administration’s education policies, kids in the Slovac Republic are more proficient in multiplication.

    In fairness, American teenagers may not know long form division - but by golly they know their non-binary gender pronouns. Yes sir, they do!

    But you can't blame the kids for being dumb as rocks.

    Instead of aspiring to greatness, public schools across the fruited plain are programming kids to be mediocre.

    It doesn't matter if Little Johnny thinks five plus four is 12.

    Modern-day classrooms are safe spaces where everybody’s a winner – everybody gets a gold star.

    There's just one problem with that philosophy. When Little Johnny becomes Big Johnny he's going to be living off the taxpayer dime.

    And good luck making change down at the Piggly Wiggly.

    "american kids became more stupid...."

    seriously? there's a reason you don't post your sources. just garbage.
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,767

    American school kids became more stupid under the Obama administration, according to rankings released by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

    They recently released the results of a worldwide exam administered every three years to 15-year-olds in 72 countries. The exam monitors reading, math and science knowledge.

    Based on their findings, the United States saw an 11-point drop in math scores and nearly flat levels for reading and science.

    The Land of the Free, Home of the Brave, fell below the OECD average – and failed to crack the top ten in all three categories.

    In other words, thanks to the Obama administration’s education policies, kids in the Slovac Republic are more proficient in multiplication.

    In fairness, American teenagers may not know long form division - but by golly they know their non-binary gender pronouns. Yes sir, they do!

    But you can't blame the kids for being dumb as rocks.

    Instead of aspiring to greatness, public schools across the fruited plain are programming kids to be mediocre.

    It doesn't matter if Little Johnny thinks five plus four is 12.

    Modern-day classrooms are safe spaces where everybody’s a winner – everybody gets a gold star.

    There's just one problem with that philosophy. When Little Johnny becomes Big Johnny he's going to be living off the taxpayer dime.

    And good luck making change down at the Piggly Wiggly.

    Well, thankfully we have Betty DeVos now who has an immense understanding and history of the public school system and the obstacles in its way, the interests of the children at heart, and the hands-on experience to make change.

    For those of you curious about the raw data, I tried to embed the OECD results below - and extended them as far back as I could, if we're under the impression that an administration is the only variable in determining the successful education of today's youth.

    OECD Chart: Mathematics performance (PISA), Total, Mean score, Annual, 2003 – 2015

    OECD Chart: Science performance (PISA), Total, Mean score, Annual, 2006 – 2015

    You also forgot to attribute this eloquence to its original source, so I did it for you.
    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/02/09/americas-kids-got-more-stupid-in-reading-math-and-science-while-team-obama-was-in-charge.html

    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • dignindignin Posts: 7,322

  • KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere.Posts: 3,662
    "Well, as far as I know, music makes people happy. I know it makes me happy." -- Fats Domino
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    boy you folks can't stand to admit defeat in the face of constant loss. not that I am worried about Betsy one way or another but you guy's are really digging into this one like your opinion really matters to the world LOL ! I thought that kind of behavior is frowned upon here ?
    it dosen't matter to me what a man dose for a living you understand..
    as long as his interest's don't conflict with mine.
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