Baseball Hall Of Fame.....

InHiding80 said:

As an Angels fan I'd love to see Vlad in soon but I honestly think Garrett Anderson should get in first.

Garret Anderson is not a Hall of Famer

Amongst the Ani said:

Wobbie said:

mfc2006 said:

Wobbie said:

whoopee! two steroids guy make the hall.

you're missing a key word...alleged

we all know what's up....Bonds is alleged, too. right now, I figure they have already put in at least 4-5 steroid guys.

Rob, I'm with you. The only actual evidence Bonds used was the failed sample test that Big Papi and a decent portion of MLB failed. Baseball told the players the test wouldn't be used against them which should include the HOF. Bonds was eventually acquitted of the only charge from his trial he was convicted of. Mind you that charge was for obstruction for not fully answering a question about his trainer and other players, nothing to do with him. There is technically no more evidence against him than any of the other guys suspected from that era other than a book written with illegally obtained court documents. I hate when baseball says he was a roid user but other guys like Piazza are suspected. We all know he did them. I am not denying that but he is still technically a suspected user when it comes to MLB and the HOF.

That sample test with the leaked names are also alleged. Leaked by a media member/outlet. NO ONE knows for sure who is on that list. So, to me anyway, is not actual evidence. I'm not gonna believe some person who says they have a "source" that says so-and-so was on that list. Not enough proof for me.

You can almost make a argument over every era of baseball for a player not to be in the HOF.

Pitchers like Cy Young & Old Hoss Radbourn , who pitched in the late 1800's, could pitch spit-balls, scuff the ball, and whatever else they could do with the ball and only played against white Americans. Old Hoss won 59 games one year and completed 73!! Cy Young won over 500 games!>You really think they could've done that now? Or even in the 20's-70's? Of course not, but ther in the HOF.

Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Lou Gehrig, etc, and also only played against white Americans(yeah i know, that wasn't ther fault). Do they put up the stats that they did if they played against the best? Sucks, because we would never know how good they really were. And, ther in the HOF.

Players in the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and probably up until recently used "greenies"/speed, and like Rob said, Adderal. I think Mays, Mantle & Arron said they did greenies, so do they put up the stats they did without using? Who knows, but ther in the HOF.

Do we know what players loaded ther bats, by corking, or sand-papering ther bats and pitchers that threw spitters/scuffed/vasoline balls? We don't of course. And trust me, some of those players are in the HOF. And, not just Gaylord Perry.

I actually think that a few players took some steroids as early as the 70's. I was in HS in the late 70's and we, my friends, knew about steroids. A guy i grew up with was in the Phillies organization in the early-mid 80's and he knew players were taking steroids then. And you know thers some players that are in the HOF who used.

Like i said, a argument can made for every era. It's baseball !! I HATE A-Rod, even before steroids, but the guy is a HOF. Just like Bonds, Clemens, etc.etc.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Great points regarding the era advantages.

Don't forget some pitchers even pitched on acid.

HAHA>Yeah, that was Doc Ellis.

cutz said:

Amongst the Ani said:

Wobbie said:

mfc2006 said:

Wobbie said:

whoopee! two steroids guy make the hall.

you're missing a key word...alleged

we all know what's up....Bonds is alleged, too. right now, I figure they have already put in at least 4-5 steroid guys.

Rob, I'm with you. The only actual evidence Bonds used was the failed sample test that Big Papi and a decent portion of MLB failed. Baseball told the players the test wouldn't be used against them which should include the HOF. Bonds was eventually acquitted of the only charge from his trial he was convicted of. Mind you that charge was for obstruction for not fully answering a question about his trainer and other players, nothing to do with him. There is technically no more evidence against him than any of the other guys suspected from that era other than a book written with illegally obtained court documents. I hate when baseball says he was a roid user but other guys like Piazza are suspected. We all know he did them. I am not denying that but he is still technically a suspected user when it comes to MLB and the HOF.

That sample test with the leaked names are also alleged. Leaked by a media member/outlet. NO ONE knows for sure who is on that list. So, to me anyway, is not actual evidence. I'm not gonna believe some person who says they have a "source" that says so-and-so was on that list. Not enough proof for me.

You can almost make a argument over every era of baseball for a player not to be in the HOF.

Pitchers like Cy Young & Old Hoss Radbourn , who pitched in the late 1800's, could pitch spit-balls, scuff the ball, and whatever else they could do with the ball and only played against white Americans. Old Hoss won 59 games one year and completed 73!! Cy Young won over 500 games!>You really think they could've done that now? Or even in the 20's-70's? Of course not, but ther in the HOF.

Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Lou Gehrig, etc, and also only played against white Americans(yeah i know, that wasn't ther fault). Do they put up the stats that they did if they played against the best? Sucks, because we would never know how good they really were. And, ther in the HOF.

Players in the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and probably up until recently used "greenies"/speed, and like Rob said, Adderal. I think Mays, Mantle & Arron said they did greenies, so do they put up the stats they did without using? Who knows, but ther in the HOF.

Do we know what players loaded ther bats, by corking, or sand-papering ther bats and pitchers that threw spitters/scuffed/vasoline balls? We don't of course. And trust me, some of those players are in the HOF. And, not just Gaylord Perry.

I actually think that a few players took some steroids as early as the 70's. I was in HS in the late 70's and we, my friends, knew about steroids. A guy i grew up with was in the Phillies organization in the early-mid 80's and he knew players were taking steroids then. And you know thers some players that are in the HOF who used.

Like i said, a argument can made for every era. It's baseball !! I HATE A-Rod, even before steroids, but the guy is a HOF. Just like Bonds, Clemens, etc.etc.

Well said.

My argument to folks about amphetamines/ greenies, is the same as yours, there was an edge!

Bonds was the best pure hitter I've ever seen. He put fear in every pitcher and manager he faced. He belongs in the hall...

cutz said:

Amongst the Ani said:

Wobbie said:

mfc2006 said:

Wobbie said:

whoopee! two steroids guy make the hall.

you're missing a key word...alleged

we all know what's up....Bonds is alleged, too. right now, I figure they have already put in at least 4-5 steroid guys.

Rob, I'm with you. The only actual evidence Bonds used was the failed sample test that Big Papi and a decent portion of MLB failed. Baseball told the players the test wouldn't be used against them which should include the HOF. Bonds was eventually acquitted of the only charge from his trial he was convicted of. Mind you that charge was for obstruction for not fully answering a question about his trainer and other players, nothing to do with him. There is technically no more evidence against him than any of the other guys suspected from that era other than a book written with illegally obtained court documents. I hate when baseball says he was a roid user but other guys like Piazza are suspected. We all know he did them. I am not denying that but he is still technically a suspected user when it comes to MLB and the HOF.

That sample test with the leaked names are also alleged. Leaked by a media member/outlet. NO ONE knows for sure who is on that list. So, to me anyway, is not actual evidence. I'm not gonna believe some person who says they have a "source" that says so-and-so was on that list. Not enough proof for me.

You can almost make a argument over every era of baseball for a player not to be in the HOF.

Pitchers like Cy Young & Old Hoss Radbourn , who pitched in the late 1800's, could pitch spit-balls, scuff the ball, and whatever else they could do with the ball and only played against white Americans. Old Hoss won 59 games one year and completed 73!! Cy Young won over 500 games!>You really think they could've done that now? Or even in the 20's-70's? Of course not, but ther in the HOF.

Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Lou Gehrig, etc, and also only played against white Americans(yeah i know, that wasn't ther fault). Do they put up the stats that they did if they played against the best? Sucks, because we would never know how good they really were. And, ther in the HOF.

Players in the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and probably up until recently used "greenies"/speed, and like Rob said, Adderal. I think Mays, Mantle & Arron said they did greenies, so do they put up the stats they did without using? Who knows, but ther in the HOF.

Do we know what players loaded ther bats, by corking, or sand-papering ther bats and pitchers that threw spitters/scuffed/vasoline balls? We don't of course. And trust me, some of those players are in the HOF. And, not just Gaylord Perry.

I actually think that a few players took some steroids as early as the 70's. I was in HS in the late 70's and we, my friends, knew about steroids. A guy i grew up with was in the Phillies organization in the early-mid 80's and he knew players were taking steroids then. And you know thers some players that are in the HOF who used.

Like i said, a argument can made for every era. It's baseball !! I HATE A-Rod, even before steroids, but the guy is a HOF. Just like Bonds, Clemens, etc.etc.

Garrett Anderson was a good, consistent player. A Hall of Famer he is not.

InHiding80 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

InHiding80 said:

As an Angels fan I'd love to see Vlad in soon but I honestly think Garrett Anderson should get in first.

Being a halos fan myself I couldn't agree less.

He was a GREAT Angels player, along with Erstad but not a HOF!!!

Someone who was in the top 5 in hits of all time among active players at the time in the late 00s like Jeter not HOF?

Difference between Jeter and Anderson is about 700 hits. Jeter ended up with 3000 and Anderson fell a little short.

Again I loved GA and what he did for the Halos but he's not a HOFer.

My head is bigger now than it was when I was 25. Never taken steroids in my life.

pjhawks said:

Amongst the Ani said:

Wobbie said:

mfc2006 said:

Wobbie said:

whoopee! two steroids guy make the hall.

you're missing a key word...alleged

we all know what's up....Bonds is alleged, too. right now, I figure they have already put in at least 4-5 steroid guys.

Rob, I'm with you. The only actual evidence Bonds used was the failed sample test that Big Papi and a decent portion of MLB failed. Baseball told the players the test wouldn't be used against them which should include the HOF. Bonds was eventually acquitted of the only charge from his trial he was convicted of. Mind you that charge was for obstruction for not fully answering a question about his trainer and other players, nothing to do with him. There is technically no more evidence against him than any of the other guys suspected from that era other than a book written with illegally obtained court documents. I hate when baseball says he was a roid user but other guys like Piazza are suspected. We all know he did them. I am not denying that but he is still technically a suspected user when it comes to MLB and the HOF.

how about his giant head? look at his body from the World Series with the Pirates to his body when with the Giants. He belongs in the hall but if you don't think he was doing PEDs pass that bong you must be hitting on a regular basis.

You will notice the second to last sentence in my post was that we all know Barry used them. I have zero doubt he did. A court of law couldn't prove he used them despite as Rob mentioned 50 million spent to do it. Therefor as far as baseball is concerned he is a suspected user. Pudge was mentioned in a book as a steroid user yet he was first ballot. That book has also been proven to be pretty accurate. Baseball should keep them all out (which means zero players from the steroid era get in) or base their candidacy the same as everyone before them. Based on what they did on the field. Barry, Clemens and even Schilling are being held to a higher standard than everyone else before them which needs to stop. It is a museum of the greatest players ever and that is all.