So this is not a hate crime?

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  • rssesq
    rssesq Fairfield County Posts: 3,299
    jeffbr said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    yes, all crimes have a basis of hate or anger in them. but the purpose of a hate crime charge is because the crime was perpetrated on someone because of their appearance, race, ethnicity, belief system, etc. basically I'm going to beat the fuck out of you for no reason at all. I'm not mad at you as a person, I don't want your wallet, I just hate the colour of your skin or the fact you just walked out of a mosque or you are are a trump supporter.

    Oh, definitely. I understand the reason that hate crime laws exist, and am definitely not supporting any sort of bigotry, hatred, racism, homophobia or other small-minded maladies. But at least in this country, people are allowed to be idiots, bigots, homophobes, and racists. Those things are not illegal. But they suddenly are the basis for extra-legal prosecution when an actual crime is committed. I'm just saying that I think it should be sufficient to punish these idiots for the crimes they have actually committed without needing to get into what they might have thought, or how they might have felt. I'm not passionately opposed to the notion, but it has always made me a little uncomfortable to punish someone a little extra for having legal thoughts or beliefs no matter how idiotic they may be.
    True indeed. They should never have been enacted but if they want to pass them, they MUST BE EVENLY APPLIED! They were not passed just to enhance crimes committed by Billy Bob, or were they? lol

  • KC138045
    KC138045 Columbus, OH Posts: 2,716
    jeffbr said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    yes, all crimes have a basis of hate or anger in them. but the purpose of a hate crime charge is because the crime was perpetrated on someone because of their appearance, race, ethnicity, belief system, etc. basically I'm going to beat the fuck out of you for no reason at all. I'm not mad at you as a person, I don't want your wallet, I just hate the colour of your skin or the fact you just walked out of a mosque or you are are a trump supporter.

    Oh, definitely. I understand the reason that hate crime laws exist, and am definitely not supporting any sort of bigotry, hatred, racism, homophobia or other small-minded maladies. But at least in this country, people are allowed to be idiots, bigots, homophobes, and racists. Those things are not illegal. But they suddenly are the basis for extra-legal prosecution when an actual crime is committed. I'm just saying that I think it should be sufficient to punish these idiots for the crimes they have actually committed without needing to get into what they might have thought, or how they might have felt. I'm not passionately opposed to the notion, but it has always made me a little uncomfortable to punish someone a little extra for having legal thoughts or beliefs no matter how idiotic they may be.
    Very good points but do people really get punished more if its classified as a hate crime? I see it more as a way to label it and not necessarily an additional charge. Or maybe its a different degree of assault like there are different degrees of murder charges.
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  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    KC138045 said:

    jeffbr said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    yes, all crimes have a basis of hate or anger in them. but the purpose of a hate crime charge is because the crime was perpetrated on someone because of their appearance, race, ethnicity, belief system, etc. basically I'm going to beat the fuck out of you for no reason at all. I'm not mad at you as a person, I don't want your wallet, I just hate the colour of your skin or the fact you just walked out of a mosque or you are are a trump supporter.

    Oh, definitely. I understand the reason that hate crime laws exist, and am definitely not supporting any sort of bigotry, hatred, racism, homophobia or other small-minded maladies. But at least in this country, people are allowed to be idiots, bigots, homophobes, and racists. Those things are not illegal. But they suddenly are the basis for extra-legal prosecution when an actual crime is committed. I'm just saying that I think it should be sufficient to punish these idiots for the crimes they have actually committed without needing to get into what they might have thought, or how they might have felt. I'm not passionately opposed to the notion, but it has always made me a little uncomfortable to punish someone a little extra for having legal thoughts or beliefs no matter how idiotic they may be.
    Very good points but do people really get punished more if its classified as a hate crime? I see it more as a way to label it and not necessarily an additional charge. Or maybe its a different degree of assault like there are different degrees of murder charges.
    There can be additional punishment, or "penalty enhancements" for the crime being prosecuted as a hate crime. Some states (and I believe Federal) make hate crimes automatic felonies. Some states have mandatory minimums for hate crimes.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,251
    Never understood the need to classify something as a hate crime. I don't care what the motive is. You should be punished for the actions you take regardless of motive.
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,642
    KC138045 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Yeah, the article says that charges are still pending and that charging it as a hate crime is being considered, so I'm not sure where the gall is coming from, OP. If they choose not to try it as a hate crime, that would be the time to get offended, because yeah, it probably should be.

    In my original post I was referring to what the Police Chief said in the video about not being able to call it a hate crime. They ended up charging all four with kidnapping and a hate crime.
    Oh I see, well that's good.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,111
    Just saw this on cnn:
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/us/chicago-facebook-live-beating/index.html
    Chicago torture video: 4 charged with hate crimes, kidnapping
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,283
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    KC138045 said:

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/four-teens-held-connection-kidnapping-after-facebook-live-torture-video-n703331

    Reverse the races and I guarantee that is what the police chief would call it. These punks need to be locked away for a long time.

    Give it time and perhaps it will be. In my mind it should be.

    What an event. Wow. Let alone the depth of cruelty... the level of stupidity amongst those four assailants is off the charts (live recording of the event).

    Christ, I'm starting to think the US needs a control-alt-delete. Just start again, man. Yikes.
    no. just control alt-right.....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

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    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
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    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    mickeyrat said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    KC138045 said:

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/four-teens-held-connection-kidnapping-after-facebook-live-torture-video-n703331

    Reverse the races and I guarantee that is what the police chief would call it. These punks need to be locked away for a long time.

    Give it time and perhaps it will be. In my mind it should be.

    What an event. Wow. Let alone the depth of cruelty... the level of stupidity amongst those four assailants is off the charts (live recording of the event).

    Christ, I'm starting to think the US needs a control-alt-delete. Just start again, man. Yikes.
    no. just control alt-right.....
    I think that's what's happening lol
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    mickeyrat said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    KC138045 said:

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/four-teens-held-connection-kidnapping-after-facebook-live-torture-video-n703331

    Reverse the races and I guarantee that is what the police chief would call it. These punks need to be locked away for a long time.

    Give it time and perhaps it will be. In my mind it should be.

    What an event. Wow. Let alone the depth of cruelty... the level of stupidity amongst those four assailants is off the charts (live recording of the event).

    Christ, I'm starting to think the US needs a control-alt-delete. Just start again, man. Yikes.
    no. just control alt-right.....
    image
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    dignin said:

    mickeyrat said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    KC138045 said:

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/four-teens-held-connection-kidnapping-after-facebook-live-torture-video-n703331

    Reverse the races and I guarantee that is what the police chief would call it. These punks need to be locked away for a long time.

    Give it time and perhaps it will be. In my mind it should be.

    What an event. Wow. Let alone the depth of cruelty... the level of stupidity amongst those four assailants is off the charts (live recording of the event).

    Christ, I'm starting to think the US needs a control-alt-delete. Just start again, man. Yikes.
    no. just control alt-right.....
    image
    Lol

    I'm using this one somewhere else.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,535
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    jeffbr said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    yes, all crimes have a basis of hate or anger in them. but the purpose of a hate crime charge is because the crime was perpetrated on someone because of their appearance, race, ethnicity, belief system, etc. basically I'm going to beat the fuck out of you for no reason at all. I'm not mad at you as a person, I don't want your wallet, I just hate the colour of your skin or the fact you just walked out of a mosque or you are are a trump supporter.

    Oh, definitely. I understand the reason that hate crime laws exist, and am definitely not supporting any sort of bigotry, hatred, racism, homophobia or other small-minded maladies. But at least in this country, people are allowed to be idiots, bigots, homophobes, and racists. Those things are not illegal. But they suddenly are the basis for extra-legal prosecution when an actual crime is committed. I'm just saying that I think it should be sufficient to punish these idiots for the crimes they have actually committed without needing to get into what they might have thought, or how they might have felt. I'm not passionately opposed to the notion, but it has always made me a little uncomfortable to punish someone a little extra for having legal thoughts or beliefs no matter how idiotic they may be.
    From the victim's perspective it makes no difference.

    I think it is odd to evaluate someone's motive before deciding how to proceed against them.
    Motive is often factored in to charges. If someone kills someone, it can range from no charge because of self defense, to manslaughter, on up to murder one.
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    dignin said:

    mickeyrat said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    KC138045 said:

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/four-teens-held-connection-kidnapping-after-facebook-live-torture-video-n703331

    Reverse the races and I guarantee that is what the police chief would call it. These punks need to be locked away for a long time.

    Give it time and perhaps it will be. In my mind it should be.

    What an event. Wow. Let alone the depth of cruelty... the level of stupidity amongst those four assailants is off the charts (live recording of the event).

    Christ, I'm starting to think the US needs a control-alt-delete. Just start again, man. Yikes.
    no. just control alt-right.....
    image
    Lol

    I'm using this one somewhere else.
    In response to one of my posts, I presume?

    Ha! I make myself laugh.
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  • Indifference71
    Indifference71 Chicago Posts: 14,906
    mcgruff10 said:

    On a side note, what the hell is going on in Chicago? It seems like a war zone.

    It's crazy. Watching the local news and reading the papers here is so depressing. I just moved out to the burbs from the city and it's crazy to me that the great area I lived in on the north side is only a few miles away from these areas on the west/south sides that I wouldn't even think of going near....same city, but basically a different planet. It has gotten a lot worse this past year because of all the scrutiny on police.....cops don't want to get too aggressive and be the next viral video. I know plenty of Chicago cops and the morale in CPD is as low as it has ever been. That combined with all of these piece of shit gangbangers that have no regard for others lives and it is a complete disaster.
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    oftenreading said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    dignin said:

    mickeyrat said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    KC138045 said:

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/four-teens-held-connection-kidnapping-after-facebook-live-torture-video-n703331

    Reverse the races and I guarantee that is what the police chief would call it. These punks need to be locked away for a long time.

    Give it time and perhaps it will be. In my mind it should be.

    What an event. Wow. Let alone the depth of cruelty... the level of stupidity amongst those four assailants is off the charts (live recording of the event).

    Christ, I'm starting to think the US needs a control-alt-delete. Just start again, man. Yikes.
    no. just control alt-right.....
    image
    Lol

    I'm using this one somewhere else.
    In response to one of my posts, I presume?

    Ha! I make myself laugh.
    1 or 2 out of 10 posts you contribute make me feel that way.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    oftenreading said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    dignin said:

    mickeyrat said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    KC138045 said:

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/four-teens-held-connection-kidnapping-after-facebook-live-torture-video-n703331

    Reverse the races and I guarantee that is what the police chief would call it. These punks need to be locked away for a long time.

    Give it time and perhaps it will be. In my mind it should be.

    What an event. Wow. Let alone the depth of cruelty... the level of stupidity amongst those four assailants is off the charts (live recording of the event).

    Christ, I'm starting to think the US needs a control-alt-delete. Just start again, man. Yikes.
    no. just control alt-right.....
    image
    Lol

    I'm using this one somewhere else.
    In response to one of my posts, I presume?

    Ha! I make myself laugh.
    1 or 2 out of 10 posts you contribute make me feel that way.
    Ha again! Now I'm all warm 'n fuzzy inside.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,111
    edited January 2017
    Indifference71 said:

    mcgruff10 said:

    On a side note, what the hell is going on in Chicago? It seems like a war zone.

    It's crazy. Watching the local news and reading the papers here is so depressing. I just moved out to the burbs from the city and it's crazy to me that the great area I lived in on the north side is only a few miles away from these areas on the west/south sides that I wouldn't even think of going near....same city, but basically a different planet. It has gotten a lot worse this past year because of all the scrutiny on police.....cops don't want to get too aggressive and be the next viral video. I know plenty of Chicago cops and the morale in CPD is as low as it has ever been. That combined with all of these piece of shit gangbangers that have no regard for others lives and it is a complete disaster.
    Is crime spilling into the suburbs or is it contained to certain city neighborhoods?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • InHiding80
    InHiding80 Upland,CA Posts: 7,623
    edited January 2017
    I've seen so many Trumptards calling it a hate crime on Facebook and being hypocrites by saying the N word. All you have to do is google it and you'll see these privileged hypocrites. Of course, being the badass vigilante I am *sinister laughter*, I reported them. No one is above the law.

    Unless the trump fans draw first blood, there's no excuse for what happened.
    Post edited by InHiding80 on
  • KC138045
    KC138045 Columbus, OH Posts: 2,716
    Not sure if true but now I'm seeing reports that it's has been charged a hate crime because the victim was mentally disabled not because he was white. Give me a fucking break!! They repeatedly said "fuck white people" not "fuck the mentally challenged".
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  • Bronx Bombers
    Bronx Bombers Posts: 2,208
    edited August 2019

    Post edited by Bronx Bombers on
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    KC138045 said:

    Not sure if true but now I'm seeing reports that it's has been charged a hate crime because the victim was mentally disabled not because he was white. Give me a fucking break!! They repeatedly said "fuck white people" not "fuck the mentally challenged".

    So much anger. Don't worry, the perps are black, they will surely be found guilty and do serious time.

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