Trump

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Comments

  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    benjs said:

    I'm completely disheartened by a lack of personal accountability, and that so much energy is being exerted on blaming others.
    There are only a few reasons people voted Trump: they preferred Trump to Clinton (based on the net 'good' seen in Trump being stronger than the net 'good' seen in Clinton - including perception of ideals, personality, ideas, follow-through, and allegiance to the people), or they preferred Republican policies to Democratic policies. Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed, and be prepared to learn from them as they do the same to you - and not through fallacious or sensationalized arguments, but by reasonable logic-driven debate.

    In addition, I think that people need to recognize that a major theme of this election was that the US government is not perceived to be representing the people adequately, and thus needs reform. The fact that less than half of the country voted implies that a good chunk of Americans do not feel empowered enough to bring change. Without the perception of empowerment, people are demotivated and demoralized to the point of creating a reality which does not possess collective power. It's hard to combat this perception after years of feeling that way, but I think that would be something worth uniting the Divided States over, and would produce tangible changes in distribution of power.

    If you felt this was an annoying rant, I apologize for wasting your time - but I hope someone got something out of it. Just had to get it off my chest.

    something I've been trying to put into words these last couple weeks. you did it so much better. :clap:
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • pjalive21pjalive21 St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,818
    edited November 2016

    JC29856 said:

    This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

    White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

    I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.
    Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.
    So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

    and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

    man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto
  • benjs said:

    I'm completely disheartened by a lack of personal accountability, and that so much energy is being exerted on blaming others.
    There are only a few reasons people voted Trump: they preferred Trump to Clinton (based on the net 'good' seen in Trump being stronger than the net 'good' seen in Clinton - including perception of ideals, personality, ideas, follow-through, and allegiance to the people), or they preferred Republican policies to Democratic policies. Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed, and be prepared to learn from them as they do the same to you - and not through fallacious or sensationalized arguments, but by reasonable logic-driven debate.

    In addition, I think that people need to recognize that a major theme of this election was that the US government is not perceived to be representing the people adequately, and thus needs reform. The fact that less than half of the country voted implies that a good chunk of Americans do not feel empowered enough to bring change. Without the perception of empowerment, people are demotivated and demoralized to the point of creating a reality which does not possess collective power. It's hard to combat this perception after years of feeling that way, but I think that would be something worth uniting the Divided States over, and would produce tangible changes in distribution of power.

    If you felt this was an annoying rant, I apologize for wasting your time - but I hope someone got something out of it. Just had to get it off my chest.

    There is some truth to this post, but I need to point out that when you say, "Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed..." you're kind of speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

    You're denouncing speaking to the character of the 'dumb' Trump voter, while at the same time eloquently saying the same thing.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • pjalive21 said:

    JC29856 said:

    This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

    White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

    I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.
    Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.
    So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

    and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

    man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto
    How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,171

    pjhawks said:

    CM189191 said:

    ^^^
    That is funny pjhawks.
    In reference to your earlier question I was talking about "majority" to another poster rgambs blanket statement saying the average American being dumb. To an average American hearing that would it not invoke some kind of response?
    What is the average bar set?
    One fact is that the majority of voters who voted in President-elect Trump were Americans.

    IQ = 100
    is one way to measure the average
    image
    ...now where have I seen this map before...
    so 3/4 of the categories are sat, act and college graduates so the uneducated (who love Trump according to the man himself) aren't accounted for on this presentation.
    What would you use to measure intelligence?
    my point wasn't that those categories aren't used to measure intelligence. my point was that if you are only using those categories how are you accounting for the uneducated? the uneducated aren't taking the act or sat and by definition aren't college graduates. that leaves iq as the only other criteria to possibly be used for the uneducated on the presentation presented and how many of the uneducated are having their iq tested? that grid presented is not a fair representation of education and intelligence.
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Voter turnout statistics... Major theme of most recent elections

    http://www.electproject.org/home/voter-turnout/voter-turnout-data
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 8,929

    benjs said:

    I'm completely disheartened by a lack of personal accountability, and that so much energy is being exerted on blaming others.
    There are only a few reasons people voted Trump: they preferred Trump to Clinton (based on the net 'good' seen in Trump being stronger than the net 'good' seen in Clinton - including perception of ideals, personality, ideas, follow-through, and allegiance to the people), or they preferred Republican policies to Democratic policies. Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed, and be prepared to learn from them as they do the same to you - and not through fallacious or sensationalized arguments, but by reasonable logic-driven debate.

    In addition, I think that people need to recognize that a major theme of this election was that the US government is not perceived to be representing the people adequately, and thus needs reform. The fact that less than half of the country voted implies that a good chunk of Americans do not feel empowered enough to bring change. Without the perception of empowerment, people are demotivated and demoralized to the point of creating a reality which does not possess collective power. It's hard to combat this perception after years of feeling that way, but I think that would be something worth uniting the Divided States over, and would produce tangible changes in distribution of power.

    If you felt this was an annoying rant, I apologize for wasting your time - but I hope someone got something out of it. Just had to get it off my chest.

    There is some truth to this post, but I need to point out that when you say, "Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed..." you're kind of speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

    You're denouncing speaking to the character of the 'dumb' Trump voter, while at the same time eloquently saying the same thing.
    That wasn't my intention at all, and I don't think I alluded to the intelligence of a Trump voter at all. Right after the portion that you quoted, I acknowledged that Trump voters will attempt to teach non-Trump voters on why their premises or conclusions are flawed too, which are the only logical means of debating I've heard: debate the validity of the premise, or the conclusion.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,937
    http://thehill.com/homenews/news/307164-report-trump-foundation-admits-to-self-dealing

    Unbelievable...
    The Trump Foundation has reportedly admitted to "self-dealing" and transferring "income or assets to a disqualified person” on the foundation's 2015 tax form, according to the Washington Post.

    When asked by the IRS if the charitable foundation engaged in illegal "self-dealing" in recent years, or used the foundation funds to assist its leaders and their private businesses, the organization marked "yes" on the tax form.

    Self-dealing in a foundation occurs when someone affiliated with the foundation, such as a trustee or attorney, engages in activity that benefits their own interests, rather than the entity's.

    The President-elect Donald Trump's charitable organization likewise marked "yes" when asked about transferring "income or assets to a disqualified person.”

    This could mean the foundation transferred something to the president of the organization, a member of Trump's family or one of his businesses.

    According to the Post, the IRS document was posted on a nonprofit site Guidestar, which claims that it was uploaded by Morgan, Lewis and Bockius, the Trump foundation's law firm. It is unclear from the document if the Trump Foundation actually submitted the form to the IRS or if it has paid the penalties for violating the ban on "self-dealing."

    The document also does't reveal details about the extent of self dealing or the identity of a "disqualified person."

    According to the report, The New York Attorney General’s office is in the middle of the "ongoing" investigation regarding the Trump Foundation.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    I'm completely disheartened by a lack of personal accountability, and that so much energy is being exerted on blaming others.
    There are only a few reasons people voted Trump: they preferred Trump to Clinton (based on the net 'good' seen in Trump being stronger than the net 'good' seen in Clinton - including perception of ideals, personality, ideas, follow-through, and allegiance to the people), or they preferred Republican policies to Democratic policies. Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed, and be prepared to learn from them as they do the same to you - and not through fallacious or sensationalized arguments, but by reasonable logic-driven debate.

    In addition, I think that people need to recognize that a major theme of this election was that the US government is not perceived to be representing the people adequately, and thus needs reform. The fact that less than half of the country voted implies that a good chunk of Americans do not feel empowered enough to bring change. Without the perception of empowerment, people are demotivated and demoralized to the point of creating a reality which does not possess collective power. It's hard to combat this perception after years of feeling that way, but I think that would be something worth uniting the Divided States over, and would produce tangible changes in distribution of power.

    If you felt this was an annoying rant, I apologize for wasting your time - but I hope someone got something out of it. Just had to get it off my chest.

    There is some truth to this post, but I need to point out that when you say, "Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed..." you're kind of speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

    You're denouncing speaking to the character of the 'dumb' Trump voter, while at the same time eloquently saying the same thing.
    That wasn't my intention at all, and I don't think I alluded to the intelligence of a Trump voter at all. Right after the portion that you quoted, I acknowledged that Trump voters will attempt to teach non-Trump voters on why their premises or conclusions are flawed too, which are the only logical means of debating I've heard: debate the validity of the premise, or the conclusion.
    you didn't. it was a very unbiased approach. everyone here can learn a thing or two from this perspective.

    "the left says/does this"
    "the right says/does that"

    STFU and just state what you believe, not constantly whine about what you think the entire half of the population does wrong. Jesus people, this isn't 3rd grade.
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617

    pjalive21 said:

    JC29856 said:

    This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

    White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

    I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.
    Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.
    So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

    and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

    man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto
    How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?
    Where can I find this? Are you referring to anything recent or what comes up in a search from 1970s?
  • pjalive21pjalive21 St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,818

    pjalive21 said:

    JC29856 said:

    This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

    White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

    I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.
    Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.
    So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

    and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

    man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto
    How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?
    where is the hard evidence of that?

    and the way you spread the lies is the same crap this clip does from CNN...what more does this guy have to do to denounce racism? put David Dukes head on a post?

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/alt-right-gathering-donald-trump/index.html
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,937
    pjalive21 said:

    pjalive21 said:

    JC29856 said:

    This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

    White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

    I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.
    Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.
    So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

    and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

    man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto
    How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?
    where is the hard evidence of that?

    and the way you spread the lies is the same crap this clip does from CNN...what more does this guy have to do to denounce racism? put David Dukes head on a post?

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/alt-right-gathering-donald-trump/index.html
    Denouncing it doesn't change the fact that a segment of his base is racist.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
  • pjalive21 said:

    pjalive21 said:

    JC29856 said:

    This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

    White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

    I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.
    Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.
    So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

    and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

    man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto
    How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?
    where is the hard evidence of that?

    and the way you spread the lies is the same crap this clip does from CNN...what more does this guy have to do to denounce racism? put David Dukes head on a post?

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/alt-right-gathering-donald-trump/index.html
    It's well known.

    http://fortune.com/2016/06/07/donald-trump-racism-quotes/
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    JC29856 said:

    This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

    White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

    I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.
    Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.
    Also, it is important for everyone to remember that if one checked the box for Trump, one may not be a racist, but one is not particularly bothered by
    pjalive21 said:

    pjalive21 said:

    JC29856 said:

    This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

    White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

    I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.
    Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.
    So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

    and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

    man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto
    How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?
    where is the hard evidence of that?

    and the way you spread the lies is the same crap this clip does from CNN...what more does this guy have to do to denounce racism? put David Dukes head on a post?

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/alt-right-gathering-donald-trump/index.html
    What do you mean "what more"?
    What has he done?? One tepid denunciation after having time to think about it is all I have seen.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,588
    Jason P said:

    KKK is the left's boogeyman

    ISIS is the right's boogeyman

    Trump is the bridge between the kkk and the person who actually believes that whites are losing out.
  • benjs said:

    benjs said:

    I'm completely disheartened by a lack of personal accountability, and that so much energy is being exerted on blaming others.
    There are only a few reasons people voted Trump: they preferred Trump to Clinton (based on the net 'good' seen in Trump being stronger than the net 'good' seen in Clinton - including perception of ideals, personality, ideas, follow-through, and allegiance to the people), or they preferred Republican policies to Democratic policies. Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed, and be prepared to learn from them as they do the same to you - and not through fallacious or sensationalized arguments, but by reasonable logic-driven debate.

    In addition, I think that people need to recognize that a major theme of this election was that the US government is not perceived to be representing the people adequately, and thus needs reform. The fact that less than half of the country voted implies that a good chunk of Americans do not feel empowered enough to bring change. Without the perception of empowerment, people are demotivated and demoralized to the point of creating a reality which does not possess collective power. It's hard to combat this perception after years of feeling that way, but I think that would be something worth uniting the Divided States over, and would produce tangible changes in distribution of power.

    If you felt this was an annoying rant, I apologize for wasting your time - but I hope someone got something out of it. Just had to get it off my chest.

    There is some truth to this post, but I need to point out that when you say, "Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed..." you're kind of speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

    You're denouncing speaking to the character of the 'dumb' Trump voter, while at the same time eloquently saying the same thing.
    That wasn't my intention at all, and I don't think I alluded to the intelligence of a Trump voter at all. Right after the portion that you quoted, I acknowledged that Trump voters will attempt to teach non-Trump voters on why their premises or conclusions are flawed too, which are the only logical means of debating I've heard: debate the validity of the premise, or the conclusion.
    you didn't. it was a very unbiased approach. everyone here can learn a thing or two from this perspective.

    "the left says/does this"
    "the right says/does that"

    STFU and just state what you believe, not constantly whine about what you think the entire half of the population does wrong. Jesus people, this isn't 3rd grade.
    You've changed your tune? The moment the results were in... you were flabbergasted and have been so since.

    And for the record, I'm neither left or right in the proverbial sense. I have many stances that the right strongly supports and I have many stances that the left strongly supports.

    Have you noticed that the Trump supporters are more or less rationalizing their successful candidate in what typically sounds more and more like an apology?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,588
    pjalive21 said:

    JC29856 said:

    This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

    White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

    I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.
    Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.
    So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

    and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

    man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto
    The more important question is why the denial about racism, both trump's and many of his followers?
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124

    pjalive21 said:

    JC29856 said:

    This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

    White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

    I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.
    Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.
    So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

    and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

    man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto
    The more important question is why the denial about racism, both trump's and many of his followers?
    I don't think it's denial
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808

    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    I'm completely disheartened by a lack of personal accountability, and that so much energy is being exerted on blaming others.
    There are only a few reasons people voted Trump: they preferred Trump to Clinton (based on the net 'good' seen in Trump being stronger than the net 'good' seen in Clinton - including perception of ideals, personality, ideas, follow-through, and allegiance to the people), or they preferred Republican policies to Democratic policies. Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed, and be prepared to learn from them as they do the same to you - and not through fallacious or sensationalized arguments, but by reasonable logic-driven debate.

    In addition, I think that people need to recognize that a major theme of this election was that the US government is not perceived to be representing the people adequately, and thus needs reform. The fact that less than half of the country voted implies that a good chunk of Americans do not feel empowered enough to bring change. Without the perception of empowerment, people are demotivated and demoralized to the point of creating a reality which does not possess collective power. It's hard to combat this perception after years of feeling that way, but I think that would be something worth uniting the Divided States over, and would produce tangible changes in distribution of power.

    If you felt this was an annoying rant, I apologize for wasting your time - but I hope someone got something out of it. Just had to get it off my chest.

    There is some truth to this post, but I need to point out that when you say, "Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed..." you're kind of speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

    You're denouncing speaking to the character of the 'dumb' Trump voter, while at the same time eloquently saying the same thing.
    That wasn't my intention at all, and I don't think I alluded to the intelligence of a Trump voter at all. Right after the portion that you quoted, I acknowledged that Trump voters will attempt to teach non-Trump voters on why their premises or conclusions are flawed too, which are the only logical means of debating I've heard: debate the validity of the premise, or the conclusion.
    you didn't. it was a very unbiased approach. everyone here can learn a thing or two from this perspective.

    "the left says/does this"
    "the right says/does that"

    STFU and just state what you believe, not constantly whine about what you think the entire half of the population does wrong. Jesus people, this isn't 3rd grade.
    You've changed your tune? The moment the results were in... you were flabbergasted and have been so since.

    And for the record, I'm neither left or right in the proverbial sense. I have many stances that the right strongly supports and I have many stances that the left strongly supports.

    Have you noticed that the Trump supporters are more or less rationalizing their successful candidate in what typically sounds more and more like an apology?
    I haven't changed my tune. I am still flabbergasted. but drudging up all this shit and bickering back and forth about who said this and that trying to prove some stupid point won't make a lick of difference. most on here are doing nothing but engaging in a pissing match about who is smarter/right and who is dumber/wrong. neither of you are going to change each other's minds. so it's all just hot air.

    it no longer matters the demographics that voted for him/against hillary (at least not until the next election). what matters now is policy.

    how about engaging in dialogue on his proposals, and instead of making comments about the KKK and the fringe support or the "hypocritical left" or how stupid you think his supporters are and all that shit, talk turkey. real shit. not playground insults.

    it's becoming maddening.
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • PP193448PP193448 Here Posts: 4,281
    edited November 2016
    :murica:
    Post edited by PP193448 on
    2006 Clev,Pitt; 2008 NY MSGx2; 2010 Columbus; 2012 Missoula; 2013 Phoenix,Vancouver,Seattle; 2014 Cincy; 2016 Lex, Wrigley 1&2; 2018 Wrigley 1&2; 2022 Louisville
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808

    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    I'm completely disheartened by a lack of personal accountability, and that so much energy is being exerted on blaming others.
    There are only a few reasons people voted Trump: they preferred Trump to Clinton (based on the net 'good' seen in Trump being stronger than the net 'good' seen in Clinton - including perception of ideals, personality, ideas, follow-through, and allegiance to the people), or they preferred Republican policies to Democratic policies. Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed, and be prepared to learn from them as they do the same to you - and not through fallacious or sensationalized arguments, but by reasonable logic-driven debate.

    In addition, I think that people need to recognize that a major theme of this election was that the US government is not perceived to be representing the people adequately, and thus needs reform. The fact that less than half of the country voted implies that a good chunk of Americans do not feel empowered enough to bring change. Without the perception of empowerment, people are demotivated and demoralized to the point of creating a reality which does not possess collective power. It's hard to combat this perception after years of feeling that way, but I think that would be something worth uniting the Divided States over, and would produce tangible changes in distribution of power.

    If you felt this was an annoying rant, I apologize for wasting your time - but I hope someone got something out of it. Just had to get it off my chest.

    There is some truth to this post, but I need to point out that when you say, "Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed..." you're kind of speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

    You're denouncing speaking to the character of the 'dumb' Trump voter, while at the same time eloquently saying the same thing.
    That wasn't my intention at all, and I don't think I alluded to the intelligence of a Trump voter at all. Right after the portion that you quoted, I acknowledged that Trump voters will attempt to teach non-Trump voters on why their premises or conclusions are flawed too, which are the only logical means of debating I've heard: debate the validity of the premise, or the conclusion.
    you didn't. it was a very unbiased approach. everyone here can learn a thing or two from this perspective.

    "the left says/does this"
    "the right says/does that"

    STFU and just state what you believe, not constantly whine about what you think the entire half of the population does wrong. Jesus people, this isn't 3rd grade.
    You've changed your tune? The moment the results were in... you were flabbergasted and have been so since.

    And for the record, I'm neither left or right in the proverbial sense. I have many stances that the right strongly supports and I have many stances that the left strongly supports.

    Have you noticed that the Trump supporters are more or less rationalizing their successful candidate in what typically sounds more and more like an apology?
    and as to your last question, of course they are doing that. the left did the same shit with hillary's supposed corruption all the way through. both sides do it. both sides will continue to do it. the problem as I see it is both sides thinking they are superior to the other. they aren't. as @unsung has stated, and i've seen online countless times, right wing and left wing are both still attached to the same bird.

    I'm neither left nor right as defined by politics either. socially left, fiscally right.
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,588
    BS44325 said:

    pjalive21 said:

    JC29856 said:

    This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

    White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

    I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.
    Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.
    So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

    and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

    man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto
    The more important question is why the denial about racism, both trump's and many of his followers?
    I don't think it's denial
    I don't know what you call it. It seems like there's a large segment of the population who think racism only exists with the white hood and swastika folks.
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    edited November 2016
    Based on some of these posts it's safe to say Pearl jam has many racist fans. Since they have many many fans in southern and mid west states its safe to also assume that their fan base is intellectually inept.
    Imagine all the racist and internally inept fans that don't even post on here?
    Post edited by JC29856 on
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,120
    JC29856 said:

    Based on some of these posts it's safe to say Pearl jam has many racist fans. Since they have many many fans in southern and mid west states its safe to also assume that their fan base is intellectually inept.

    I'm in one of PE Trump's red states Florida and I'm far from a racist point of view. However, we do have a few that are from the sunshine state....they're in heaven with his huge presidential win. More power to them.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,588
    JC29856 said:

    Based on some of these posts it's safe to say Pearl jam has many racist fans. Since they have many many fans in southern and mid west states its safe to also assume that their fan base is intellectually inept.
    Imagine all the racist and internally inept fans that don't even post on here?

    I guess you're trying to be cute, but there have been a lot of racist and prejudicial posts by Pearl Jam fans in here and also on the facebook page, particularly in the last year or so.
  • pjalive21pjalive21 St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,818
    edited November 2016

    pjalive21 said:

    pjalive21 said:

    JC29856 said:

    This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

    White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

    I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.
    Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.
    So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

    and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

    man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto
    How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?
    where is the hard evidence of that?

    and the way you spread the lies is the same crap this clip does from CNN...what more does this guy have to do to denounce racism? put David Dukes head on a post?

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/alt-right-gathering-donald-trump/index.html
    Denouncing it doesn't change the fact that a segment of his base is racist.
    there are bad apples in every group i completely agree with you...im sure a segment of Obama and HRC supporters were the same

    Does Trump say stupid stuff, yes...is he a racist, no
    Post edited by pjalive21 on
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617

    JC29856 said:

    Based on some of these posts it's safe to say Pearl jam has many racist fans. Since they have many many fans in southern and mid west states its safe to also assume that their fan base is intellectually inept.
    Imagine all the racist and internally inept fans that don't even post on here?

    I guess you're trying to be cute, but there have been a lot of racist and prejudicial posts by Pearl Jam fans in here and also on the facebook page, particularly in the last year or so.
    Call it what you want, but there are pages and pages of posts and threads to my point.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,588
    JC29856 said:

    JC29856 said:

    Based on some of these posts it's safe to say Pearl jam has many racist fans. Since they have many many fans in southern and mid west states its safe to also assume that their fan base is intellectually inept.
    Imagine all the racist and internally inept fans that don't even post on here?

    I guess you're trying to be cute, but there have been a lot of racist and prejudicial posts by Pearl Jam fans in here and also on the facebook page, particularly in the last year or so.
    Call it what you want, but there are pages and pages of posts and threads to my point.
    So we're in agreement, or are you sarcastically disagreeing?
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,588
    pjalive21 said:

    pjalive21 said:

    pjalive21 said:

    JC29856 said:

    This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

    White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

    I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.
    Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.
    So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

    and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

    man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto
    How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?
    where is the hard evidence of that?

    and the way you spread the lies is the same crap this clip does from CNN...what more does this guy have to do to denounce racism? put David Dukes head on a post?

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/alt-right-gathering-donald-trump/index.html
    Denouncing it doesn't change the fact that a segment of his base is racist.
    there are bad apples in every group i completely agree with you...im sure a segment of Obama and HRC supporters were the same

    Does Trump say stupid stuff, yes...is he a racist, no
    pjalive21 said:

    pjalive21 said:

    pjalive21 said:

    JC29856 said:

    This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

    White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

    I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.
    Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.
    So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

    and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

    man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto
    How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?
    where is the hard evidence of that?

    and the way you spread the lies is the same crap this clip does from CNN...what more does this guy have to do to denounce racism? put David Dukes head on a post?

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/alt-right-gathering-donald-trump/index.html
    Denouncing it doesn't change the fact that a segment of his base is racist.
    there are bad apples in every group i completely agree with you...im sure a segment of Obama and HRC supporters were the same

    Does Trump say stupid stuff, yes...is he a racist, no
    This isn't bad apples issue. Trump says stupid stuff that also happens to be racist stuff. I guess you're claiming that someone can say racist things but they're not racist? They'll also push policies that are based in prejudice, but they still aren't racist?
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,120
    pjalive21 said:

    pjalive21 said:

    pjalive21 said:

    JC29856 said:

    This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

    White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

    I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.
    Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.
    So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

    and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

    man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto
    How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?
    where is the hard evidence of that?

    and the way you spread the lies is the same crap this clip does from CNN...what more does this guy have to do to denounce racism? put David Dukes head on a post?

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/alt-right-gathering-donald-trump/index.html
    Denouncing it doesn't change the fact that a segment of his base is racist.
    there are bad apples in every group i completely agree with you...im sure a segment of Obama and HRC supporters were the same

    Does Trump say stupid stuff, yes...is he a racist, no
    Even though I may not like PE DT, I try to be fair to him. However, his past has shown he has racist action, qualities and views......worst I don't think they will change. I certainly hope they will change just the same for the betterment of the country.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


This discussion has been closed.