Trump

HughFreakingDillon

benjs said:

I'm completely disheartened by a lack of personal accountability, and that so much energy is being exerted on blaming others.
There are only a few reasons people voted Trump: they preferred Trump to Clinton (based on the net 'good' seen in Trump being stronger than the net 'good' seen in Clinton - including perception of ideals, personality, ideas, follow-through, and allegiance to the people), or they preferred Republican policies to Democratic policies. Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed, and be prepared to learn from them as they do the same to you - and not through fallacious or sensationalized arguments, but by reasonable logic-driven debate.

In addition, I think that people need to recognize that a major theme of this election was that the US government is not perceived to be representing the people adequately, and thus needs reform. The fact that less than half of the country voted implies that a good chunk of Americans do not feel empowered enough to bring change. Without the perception of empowerment, people are demotivated and demoralized to the point of creating a reality which does not possess collective power. It's hard to combat this perception after years of feeling that way, but I think that would be something worth uniting the Divided States over, and would produce tangible changes in distribution of power.

If you felt this was an annoying rant, I apologize for wasting your time - but I hope someone got something out of it. Just had to get it off my chest.

something I've been trying to put into words these last couple weeks. you did it so much better.

pjalive21

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.

Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.

So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto

Thirty Bills Unpaid

benjs said:

I'm completely disheartened by a lack of personal accountability, and that so much energy is being exerted on blaming others.
There are only a few reasons people voted Trump: they preferred Trump to Clinton (based on the net 'good' seen in Trump being stronger than the net 'good' seen in Clinton - including perception of ideals, personality, ideas, follow-through, and allegiance to the people), or they preferred Republican policies to Democratic policies. Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed, and be prepared to learn from them as they do the same to you - and not through fallacious or sensationalized arguments, but by reasonable logic-driven debate.

In addition, I think that people need to recognize that a major theme of this election was that the US government is not perceived to be representing the people adequately, and thus needs reform. The fact that less than half of the country voted implies that a good chunk of Americans do not feel empowered enough to bring change. Without the perception of empowerment, people are demotivated and demoralized to the point of creating a reality which does not possess collective power. It's hard to combat this perception after years of feeling that way, but I think that would be something worth uniting the Divided States over, and would produce tangible changes in distribution of power.

If you felt this was an annoying rant, I apologize for wasting your time - but I hope someone got something out of it. Just had to get it off my chest.

There is some truth to this post, but I need to point out that when you say, "Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed..." you're kind of speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

You're denouncing speaking to the character of the 'dumb' Trump voter, while at the same time eloquently saying the same thing.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.

Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.

So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto

How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?

pjhawks

Go Beavers said:

pjhawks said:

CM189191 said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

^^^
That is funny pjhawks.
In reference to your earlier question I was talking about "majority" to another poster rgambs blanket statement saying the average American being dumb. To an average American hearing that would it not invoke some kind of response?
What is the average bar set?
One fact is that the majority of voters who voted in President-elect Trump were Americans.

IQ = 100
is one way to measure the average

...now where have I seen this map before...

so 3/4 of the categories are sat, act and college graduates so the uneducated (who love Trump according to the man himself) aren't accounted for on this presentation.

What would you use to measure intelligence?

my point wasn't that those categories aren't used to measure intelligence. my point was that if you are only using those categories how are you accounting for the uneducated? the uneducated aren't taking the act or sat and by definition aren't college graduates. that leaves iq as the only other criteria to possibly be used for the uneducated on the presentation presented and how many of the uneducated are having their iq tested? that grid presented is not a fair representation of education and intelligence.

JC29856

Voter turnout statistics... Major theme of most recent elections

http://www.electproject.org/home/voter-turnout/voter-turnout-data

benjs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

benjs said:

I'm completely disheartened by a lack of personal accountability, and that so much energy is being exerted on blaming others.
There are only a few reasons people voted Trump: they preferred Trump to Clinton (based on the net 'good' seen in Trump being stronger than the net 'good' seen in Clinton - including perception of ideals, personality, ideas, follow-through, and allegiance to the people), or they preferred Republican policies to Democratic policies. Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed, and be prepared to learn from them as they do the same to you - and not through fallacious or sensationalized arguments, but by reasonable logic-driven debate.

In addition, I think that people need to recognize that a major theme of this election was that the US government is not perceived to be representing the people adequately, and thus needs reform. The fact that less than half of the country voted implies that a good chunk of Americans do not feel empowered enough to bring change. Without the perception of empowerment, people are demotivated and demoralized to the point of creating a reality which does not possess collective power. It's hard to combat this perception after years of feeling that way, but I think that would be something worth uniting the Divided States over, and would produce tangible changes in distribution of power.

If you felt this was an annoying rant, I apologize for wasting your time - but I hope someone got something out of it. Just had to get it off my chest.

There is some truth to this post, but I need to point out that when you say, "Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed..." you're kind of speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

You're denouncing speaking to the character of the 'dumb' Trump voter, while at the same time eloquently saying the same thing.

That wasn't my intention at all, and I don't think I alluded to the intelligence of a Trump voter at all. Right after the portion that you quoted, I acknowledged that Trump voters will attempt to teach non-Trump voters on why their premises or conclusions are flawed too, which are the only logical means of debating I've heard: debate the validity of the premise, or the conclusion.

Gern Blansten

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/307164-report-trump-foundation-admits-to-self-dealing

Unbelievable...

The Trump Foundation has reportedly admitted to "self-dealing" and transferring "income or assets to a disqualified person” on the foundation's 2015 tax form, according to the Washington Post.

When asked by the IRS if the charitable foundation engaged in illegal "self-dealing" in recent years, or used the foundation funds to assist its leaders and their private businesses, the organization marked "yes" on the tax form.

Self-dealing in a foundation occurs when someone affiliated with the foundation, such as a trustee or attorney, engages in activity that benefits their own interests, rather than the entity's.

The President-elect Donald Trump's charitable organization likewise marked "yes" when asked about transferring "income or assets to a disqualified person.”

This could mean the foundation transferred something to the president of the organization, a member of Trump's family or one of his businesses.

According to the Post, the IRS document was posted on a nonprofit site Guidestar, which claims that it was uploaded by Morgan, Lewis and Bockius, the Trump foundation's law firm. It is unclear from the document if the Trump Foundation actually submitted the form to the IRS or if it has paid the penalties for violating the ban on "self-dealing."

The document also does't reveal details about the extent of self dealing or the identity of a "disqualified person."

According to the report, The New York Attorney General’s office is in the middle of the "ongoing" investigation regarding the Trump Foundation.

HughFreakingDillon

benjs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

benjs said:

I'm completely disheartened by a lack of personal accountability, and that so much energy is being exerted on blaming others.
There are only a few reasons people voted Trump: they preferred Trump to Clinton (based on the net 'good' seen in Trump being stronger than the net 'good' seen in Clinton - including perception of ideals, personality, ideas, follow-through, and allegiance to the people), or they preferred Republican policies to Democratic policies. Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed, and be prepared to learn from them as they do the same to you - and not through fallacious or sensationalized arguments, but by reasonable logic-driven debate.

In addition, I think that people need to recognize that a major theme of this election was that the US government is not perceived to be representing the people adequately, and thus needs reform. The fact that less than half of the country voted implies that a good chunk of Americans do not feel empowered enough to bring change. Without the perception of empowerment, people are demotivated and demoralized to the point of creating a reality which does not possess collective power. It's hard to combat this perception after years of feeling that way, but I think that would be something worth uniting the Divided States over, and would produce tangible changes in distribution of power.

If you felt this was an annoying rant, I apologize for wasting your time - but I hope someone got something out of it. Just had to get it off my chest.

There is some truth to this post, but I need to point out that when you say, "Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed..." you're kind of speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

You're denouncing speaking to the character of the 'dumb' Trump voter, while at the same time eloquently saying the same thing.

That wasn't my intention at all, and I don't think I alluded to the intelligence of a Trump voter at all. Right after the portion that you quoted, I acknowledged that Trump voters will attempt to teach non-Trump voters on why their premises or conclusions are flawed too, which are the only logical means of debating I've heard: debate the validity of the premise, or the conclusion.

you didn't. it was a very unbiased approach. everyone here can learn a thing or two from this perspective.

"the left says/does this"
"the right says/does that"

STFU and just state what you believe, not constantly whine about what you think the entire half of the population does wrong. Jesus people, this isn't 3rd grade.

JC29856

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.

Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.

So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto

How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?

Where can I find this? Are you referring to anything recent or what comes up in a search from 1970s?

pjalive21

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.

Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.

So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto

How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?

where is the hard evidence of that?

and the way you spread the lies is the same crap this clip does from CNN...what more does this guy have to do to denounce racism? put David Dukes head on a post?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/alt-right-gathering-donald-trump/index.html

Gern Blansten

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.

Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.

So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto

How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?

where is the hard evidence of that?

and the way you spread the lies is the same crap this clip does from CNN...what more does this guy have to do to denounce racism? put David Dukes head on a post?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/alt-right-gathering-donald-trump/index.html

Denouncing it doesn't change the fact that a segment of his base is racist.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.

Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.

So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto

How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?

where is the hard evidence of that?

and the way you spread the lies is the same crap this clip does from CNN...what more does this guy have to do to denounce racism? put David Dukes head on a post?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/alt-right-gathering-donald-trump/index.html

It's well known.

http://fortune.com/2016/06/07/donald-trump-racism-quotes/

rgambs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.

Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.

Also, it is important for everyone to remember that if one checked the box for Trump, one may not be a racist, but one is not particularly bothered by

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.

Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.

So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto

How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?

where is the hard evidence of that?

and the way you spread the lies is the same crap this clip does from CNN...what more does this guy have to do to denounce racism? put David Dukes head on a post?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/alt-right-gathering-donald-trump/index.html

What do you mean "what more"?
What has he done?? One tepid denunciation after having time to think about it is all I have seen.

Go Beavers

Jason P said:

KKK is the left's boogeyman

ISIS is the right's boogeyman

Trump is the bridge between the kkk and the person who actually believes that whites are losing out.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

HughFreakingDillon said:

benjs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

benjs said:

I'm completely disheartened by a lack of personal accountability, and that so much energy is being exerted on blaming others.
There are only a few reasons people voted Trump: they preferred Trump to Clinton (based on the net 'good' seen in Trump being stronger than the net 'good' seen in Clinton - including perception of ideals, personality, ideas, follow-through, and allegiance to the people), or they preferred Republican policies to Democratic policies. Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed, and be prepared to learn from them as they do the same to you - and not through fallacious or sensationalized arguments, but by reasonable logic-driven debate.

In addition, I think that people need to recognize that a major theme of this election was that the US government is not perceived to be representing the people adequately, and thus needs reform. The fact that less than half of the country voted implies that a good chunk of Americans do not feel empowered enough to bring change. Without the perception of empowerment, people are demotivated and demoralized to the point of creating a reality which does not possess collective power. It's hard to combat this perception after years of feeling that way, but I think that would be something worth uniting the Divided States over, and would produce tangible changes in distribution of power.

If you felt this was an annoying rant, I apologize for wasting your time - but I hope someone got something out of it. Just had to get it off my chest.

There is some truth to this post, but I need to point out that when you say, "Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed..." you're kind of speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

You're denouncing speaking to the character of the 'dumb' Trump voter, while at the same time eloquently saying the same thing.

That wasn't my intention at all, and I don't think I alluded to the intelligence of a Trump voter at all. Right after the portion that you quoted, I acknowledged that Trump voters will attempt to teach non-Trump voters on why their premises or conclusions are flawed too, which are the only logical means of debating I've heard: debate the validity of the premise, or the conclusion.

you didn't. it was a very unbiased approach. everyone here can learn a thing or two from this perspective.

"the left says/does this"
"the right says/does that"

STFU and just state what you believe, not constantly whine about what you think the entire half of the population does wrong. Jesus people, this isn't 3rd grade.

You've changed your tune? The moment the results were in... you were flabbergasted and have been so since.

And for the record, I'm neither left or right in the proverbial sense. I have many stances that the right strongly supports and I have many stances that the left strongly supports.

Have you noticed that the Trump supporters are more or less rationalizing their successful candidate in what typically sounds more and more like an apology?

Go Beavers

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.

Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.

So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto

The more important question is why the denial about racism, both trump's and many of his followers?

BS44325

Go Beavers said:

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.

Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.

So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto

The more important question is why the denial about racism, both trump's and many of his followers?

I don't think it's denial

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

benjs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

benjs said:

I'm completely disheartened by a lack of personal accountability, and that so much energy is being exerted on blaming others.
There are only a few reasons people voted Trump: they preferred Trump to Clinton (based on the net 'good' seen in Trump being stronger than the net 'good' seen in Clinton - including perception of ideals, personality, ideas, follow-through, and allegiance to the people), or they preferred Republican policies to Democratic policies. Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed, and be prepared to learn from them as they do the same to you - and not through fallacious or sensationalized arguments, but by reasonable logic-driven debate.

In addition, I think that people need to recognize that a major theme of this election was that the US government is not perceived to be representing the people adequately, and thus needs reform. The fact that less than half of the country voted implies that a good chunk of Americans do not feel empowered enough to bring change. Without the perception of empowerment, people are demotivated and demoralized to the point of creating a reality which does not possess collective power. It's hard to combat this perception after years of feeling that way, but I think that would be something worth uniting the Divided States over, and would produce tangible changes in distribution of power.

If you felt this was an annoying rant, I apologize for wasting your time - but I hope someone got something out of it. Just had to get it off my chest.

There is some truth to this post, but I need to point out that when you say, "Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed..." you're kind of speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

You're denouncing speaking to the character of the 'dumb' Trump voter, while at the same time eloquently saying the same thing.

That wasn't my intention at all, and I don't think I alluded to the intelligence of a Trump voter at all. Right after the portion that you quoted, I acknowledged that Trump voters will attempt to teach non-Trump voters on why their premises or conclusions are flawed too, which are the only logical means of debating I've heard: debate the validity of the premise, or the conclusion.

you didn't. it was a very unbiased approach. everyone here can learn a thing or two from this perspective.

"the left says/does this"
"the right says/does that"

STFU and just state what you believe, not constantly whine about what you think the entire half of the population does wrong. Jesus people, this isn't 3rd grade.

You've changed your tune? The moment the results were in... you were flabbergasted and have been so since.

And for the record, I'm neither left or right in the proverbial sense. I have many stances that the right strongly supports and I have many stances that the left strongly supports.

Have you noticed that the Trump supporters are more or less rationalizing their successful candidate in what typically sounds more and more like an apology?

I haven't changed my tune. I am still flabbergasted. but drudging up all this shit and bickering back and forth about who said this and that trying to prove some stupid point won't make a lick of difference. most on here are doing nothing but engaging in a pissing match about who is smarter/right and who is dumber/wrong. neither of you are going to change each other's minds. so it's all just hot air.

it no longer matters the demographics that voted for him/against hillary (at least not until the next election). what matters now is policy.

how about engaging in dialogue on his proposals, and instead of making comments about the KKK and the fringe support or the "hypocritical left" or how stupid you think his supporters are and all that shit, talk turkey. real shit. not playground insults.

it's becoming maddening.

PP193448