Trump

HughFreakingDillon

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

benjs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

benjs said:

I'm completely disheartened by a lack of personal accountability, and that so much energy is being exerted on blaming others.
There are only a few reasons people voted Trump: they preferred Trump to Clinton (based on the net 'good' seen in Trump being stronger than the net 'good' seen in Clinton - including perception of ideals, personality, ideas, follow-through, and allegiance to the people), or they preferred Republican policies to Democratic policies. Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed, and be prepared to learn from them as they do the same to you - and not through fallacious or sensationalized arguments, but by reasonable logic-driven debate.

In addition, I think that people need to recognize that a major theme of this election was that the US government is not perceived to be representing the people adequately, and thus needs reform. The fact that less than half of the country voted implies that a good chunk of Americans do not feel empowered enough to bring change. Without the perception of empowerment, people are demotivated and demoralized to the point of creating a reality which does not possess collective power. It's hard to combat this perception after years of feeling that way, but I think that would be something worth uniting the Divided States over, and would produce tangible changes in distribution of power.

If you felt this was an annoying rant, I apologize for wasting your time - but I hope someone got something out of it. Just had to get it off my chest.

There is some truth to this post, but I need to point out that when you say, "Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed..." you're kind of speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

You're denouncing speaking to the character of the 'dumb' Trump voter, while at the same time eloquently saying the same thing.

That wasn't my intention at all, and I don't think I alluded to the intelligence of a Trump voter at all. Right after the portion that you quoted, I acknowledged that Trump voters will attempt to teach non-Trump voters on why their premises or conclusions are flawed too, which are the only logical means of debating I've heard: debate the validity of the premise, or the conclusion.

you didn't. it was a very unbiased approach. everyone here can learn a thing or two from this perspective.

"the left says/does this"
"the right says/does that"

STFU and just state what you believe, not constantly whine about what you think the entire half of the population does wrong. Jesus people, this isn't 3rd grade.

You've changed your tune? The moment the results were in... you were flabbergasted and have been so since.

And for the record, I'm neither left or right in the proverbial sense. I have many stances that the right strongly supports and I have many stances that the left strongly supports.

Have you noticed that the Trump supporters are more or less rationalizing their successful candidate in what typically sounds more and more like an apology?

and as to your last question, of course they are doing that. the left did the same shit with hillary's supposed corruption all the way through. both sides do it. both sides will continue to do it. the problem as I see it is both sides thinking they are superior to the other. they aren't. as @unsung has stated, and i've seen online countless times, right wing and left wing are both still attached to the same bird.

I'm neither left nor right as defined by politics either. socially left, fiscally right.

Go Beavers

BS44325 said:

Go Beavers said:

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.

Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.

So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto

The more important question is why the denial about racism, both trump's and many of his followers?

I don't think it's denial

I don't know what you call it. It seems like there's a large segment of the population who think racism only exists with the white hood and swastika folks.

JC29856

Based on some of these posts it's safe to say Pearl jam has many racist fans. Since they have many many fans in southern and mid west states its safe to also assume that their fan base is intellectually inept.
Imagine all the racist and internally inept fans that don't even post on here?

g under p

JC29856 said:

Based on some of these posts it's safe to say Pearl jam has many racist fans. Since they have many many fans in southern and mid west states its safe to also assume that their fan base is intellectually inept.

I'm in one of PE Trump's red states Florida and I'm far from a racist point of view. However, we do have a few that are from the sunshine state....they're in heaven with his huge presidential win. More power to them.

Peace

Go Beavers

JC29856 said:

Based on some of these posts it's safe to say Pearl jam has many racist fans. Since they have many many fans in southern and mid west states its safe to also assume that their fan base is intellectually inept.
Imagine all the racist and internally inept fans that don't even post on here?

I guess you're trying to be cute, but there have been a lot of racist and prejudicial posts by Pearl Jam fans in here and also on the facebook page, particularly in the last year or so.

pjalive21

Gern Blansten said:

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.

Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.

So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto

How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?

where is the hard evidence of that?

and the way you spread the lies is the same crap this clip does from CNN...what more does this guy have to do to denounce racism? put David Dukes head on a post?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/alt-right-gathering-donald-trump/index.html

Denouncing it doesn't change the fact that a segment of his base is racist.

there are bad apples in every group i completely agree with you...im sure a segment of Obama and HRC supporters were the same

Does Trump say stupid stuff, yes...is he a racist, no

JC29856

Go Beavers said:

JC29856 said:

Based on some of these posts it's safe to say Pearl jam has many racist fans. Since they have many many fans in southern and mid west states its safe to also assume that their fan base is intellectually inept.
Imagine all the racist and internally inept fans that don't even post on here?

I guess you're trying to be cute, but there have been a lot of racist and prejudicial posts by Pearl Jam fans in here and also on the facebook page, particularly in the last year or so.

Call it what you want, but there are pages and pages of posts and threads to my point.

Go Beavers

JC29856 said:

Go Beavers said:

JC29856 said:

Based on some of these posts it's safe to say Pearl jam has many racist fans. Since they have many many fans in southern and mid west states its safe to also assume that their fan base is intellectually inept.
Imagine all the racist and internally inept fans that don't even post on here?

I guess you're trying to be cute, but there have been a lot of racist and prejudicial posts by Pearl Jam fans in here and also on the facebook page, particularly in the last year or so.

Call it what you want, but there are pages and pages of posts and threads to my point.

So we're in agreement, or are you sarcastically disagreeing?

Go Beavers

pjalive21 said:

Gern Blansten said:

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.

Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.

So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto

How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?

where is the hard evidence of that?

and the way you spread the lies is the same crap this clip does from CNN...what more does this guy have to do to denounce racism? put David Dukes head on a post?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/alt-right-gathering-donald-trump/index.html

Denouncing it doesn't change the fact that a segment of his base is racist.

there are bad apples in every group i completely agree with you...im sure a segment of Obama and HRC supporters were the same

Does Trump say stupid stuff, yes...is he a racist, no

pjalive21 said:

Gern Blansten said:

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.

Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.

So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto

How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?

where is the hard evidence of that?

and the way you spread the lies is the same crap this clip does from CNN...what more does this guy have to do to denounce racism? put David Dukes head on a post?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/alt-right-gathering-donald-trump/index.html

Denouncing it doesn't change the fact that a segment of his base is racist.

there are bad apples in every group i completely agree with you...im sure a segment of Obama and HRC supporters were the same

Does Trump say stupid stuff, yes...is he a racist, no

This isn't bad apples issue. Trump says stupid stuff that also happens to be racist stuff. I guess you're claiming that someone can say racist things but they're not racist? They'll also push policies that are based in prejudice, but they still aren't racist?

g under p

pjalive21 said:

Gern Blansten said:

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.

Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.

So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto

How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?

where is the hard evidence of that?

and the way you spread the lies is the same crap this clip does from CNN...what more does this guy have to do to denounce racism? put David Dukes head on a post?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/alt-right-gathering-donald-trump/index.html

Denouncing it doesn't change the fact that a segment of his base is racist.

there are bad apples in every group i completely agree with you...im sure a segment of Obama and HRC supporters were the same

Does Trump say stupid stuff, yes...is he a racist, no

Even though I may not like PE DT, I try to be fair to him. However, his past has shown he has racist action, qualities and views......worst I don't think they will change. I certainly hope they will change just the same for the betterment of the country.

Peace

JC29856

JimmyV said:

According to Conway the incoming Trump administration has no plans to pursue further investigations of Hillary Clinton. So he campaigned on this issue knowing there was nothing there. He promised his supporters he would appoint a special prosecutor knowing there was nothing there. And the Democrats handed him the issue by running her. Unreal.

Stay tuned........

Jason P

He isn't going to build a wall either. Or do 95% of the crap he promised to. Which pretty much follows tradition of candidates not doing anything they promised to voters.

Gern Blansten

pjalive21 said:

Gern Blansten said:

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.

Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.

So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto

How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?

where is the hard evidence of that?

and the way you spread the lies is the same crap this clip does from CNN...what more does this guy have to do to denounce racism? put David Dukes head on a post?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/alt-right-gathering-donald-trump/index.html

Denouncing it doesn't change the fact that a segment of his base is racist.

there are bad apples in every group i completely agree with you...im sure a segment of Obama and HRC supporters were the same

Does Trump say stupid stuff, yes...is he a racist, no

Yeah except for that dept of justice thing related to not renting to blacks....

Jason P

Isn't Trumps daughter and son-in-law Jewish?

PJ_Soul

bootlegger10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

http://nypost.com/2016/11/21/donald-trumps-media-summit-was-a-f-ing-firing-squad/

http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/21/media/donald-trump-meeting-tv-networks/

Honest question. Would you rather a meeting as reported above or meetings Obama had with media elites coordinating stories and talking points?

I would prefer no meetings at all between the president and the media, aside from press conferences. However, I find a president who is trying to tell the media what not to report and how not to report it (or how to) a hell of a lot more disturbing than a president schmoozing with them but not telling them what they should and shouldn't report. That said, I have no clue if that first article is accurate or not. It certainly sounds like something Trump would do, but it seems like most aren't willing to make those claims.

JC29856

Gern Blansten said:

pjalive21 said:

Gern Blansten said:

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

pjalive21 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

This should make the drumpf supporters proud.....

White Nationalists Salute the President-Elect: "Hail Trump!"
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

I denounce that behavior and am certain they represent a fringe not the 61M that voted trump.

Denounce all you want, but that gesture is insignificant. The extreme element here might be fringe, but the moderates are numerically significant. It's pretty safe to say that the people who ticked the box for Trump weren't doing it because they liked the fact he's orange, offensive, poorly spoken, a cheat, a serial liar, and a sex offender: his overt racist attitudes that has the KKK high fiving and waiting for America to be great again works for many that aren't so open about their levels of racism.

So the Black Panthers were out if full force for Obama, does that mean Obama is a racist?

and where is your factual evidence Trump is a racist?

man there is actual racism in this world and the left just throws that word out when they have nothing else to hold onto

How about his policies towards renting to black people? Does that serve as evidence? Or do you need pictures of him in a stupid hat at a rally where they burn crosses?

where is the hard evidence of that?

and the way you spread the lies is the same crap this clip does from CNN...what more does this guy have to do to denounce racism? put David Dukes head on a post?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/alt-right-gathering-donald-trump/index.html

Denouncing it doesn't change the fact that a segment of his base is racist.

there are bad apples in every group i completely agree with you...im sure a segment of Obama and HRC supporters were the same

Does Trump say stupid stuff, yes...is he a racist, no

Yeah except for that dept of justice thing related to not renting to blacks....

Was this from the 70s? I keep seeing this but can only find something from 1973.

PP193448

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

benjs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

benjs said:

I'm completely disheartened by a lack of personal accountability, and that so much energy is being exerted on blaming others.
There are only a few reasons people voted Trump: they preferred Trump to Clinton (based on the net 'good' seen in Trump being stronger than the net 'good' seen in Clinton - including perception of ideals, personality, ideas, follow-through, and allegiance to the people), or they preferred Republican policies to Democratic policies. Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed, and be prepared to learn from them as they do the same to you - and not through fallacious or sensationalized arguments, but by reasonable logic-driven debate.

In addition, I think that people need to recognize that a major theme of this election was that the US government is not perceived to be representing the people adequately, and thus needs reform. The fact that less than half of the country voted implies that a good chunk of Americans do not feel empowered enough to bring change. Without the perception of empowerment, people are demotivated and demoralized to the point of creating a reality which does not possess collective power. It's hard to combat this perception after years of feeling that way, but I think that would be something worth uniting the Divided States over, and would produce tangible changes in distribution of power.

If you felt this was an annoying rant, I apologize for wasting your time - but I hope someone got something out of it. Just had to get it off my chest.

There is some truth to this post, but I need to point out that when you say, "Instead of discussing the dumbest or brightest states (which seems a divisive idea), or insulting the intelligence or personalities of Trump voters - it's time to try to empathize with them, teach them on why their premises or conclusions are flawed..." you're kind of speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

You're denouncing speaking to the character of the 'dumb' Trump voter, while at the same time eloquently saying the same thing.

That wasn't my intention at all, and I don't think I alluded to the intelligence of a Trump voter at all. Right after the portion that you quoted, I acknowledged that Trump voters will attempt to teach non-Trump voters on why their premises or conclusions are flawed too, which are the only logical means of debating I've heard: debate the validity of the premise, or the conclusion.

you didn't. it was a very unbiased approach. everyone here can learn a thing or two from this perspective.

"the left says/does this"
"the right says/does that"

STFU and just state what you believe, not constantly whine about what you think the entire half of the population does wrong. Jesus people, this isn't 3rd grade.

You've changed your tune? The moment the results were in... you were flabbergasted and have been so since.

And for the record, I'm neither left or right in the proverbial sense. I have many stances that the right strongly supports and I have many stances that the left strongly supports.

Have you noticed that the Trump supporters are more or less rationalizing their successful candidate in what typically sounds more and more like an apology?

and as to your last question, of course they are doing that. the left did the same shit with hillary's supposed corruption all the way through. both sides do it. both sides will continue to do it. the problem as I see it is both sides thinking they are superior to the other. they aren't. as @unsung has stated, and i've seen online countless times, right wing and left wing are both still attached to the same bird.

I'm neither left nor right as defined by politics either. socially left, fiscally right.

But the US bird is an ostrich, because neither wing wants to cooperate and work in unison to fly...

JC29856

If basis of calling trump racist is that trump at 27 along with his father settled a lawsuit about not renting to blacks, then that is a really really really bigly bigly bigly weak argument!
Serious, is there anything else? Like more concrete or more recent?

Go Beavers

JC29856 said:

If basis of calling trump racist is that trump at 27 along with his father settled a lawsuit about not renting to blacks, then that is a really really really bigly bigly bigly weak argument!
Serious, is there anything else? Like more concrete or more recent?

Why don't you lay out your requirements for determining if someone's racist, first?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

JC29856 said:

If basis of calling trump racist is that trump at 27 along with his father settled a lawsuit about not renting to blacks, then that is a really really really bigly bigly bigly weak argument!
Serious, is there anything else? Like more concrete or more recent?

You mean pictures wearing a pointed hat at a demonstration? I'm not sure.

Maybe those allegations back then were false. I guess even if they were accurate... he learned tolerance (or to be more careful speaking about the minority folk... one of the two maybe).

I'm coming around. He probably is a fantastic guy.