Education

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  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    a big number of students drop out of college because algebra kicks their asses? that is something. i guess we have our strengths & weaknesses.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • riley540
    riley540 Denver Colorado Posts: 1,132
    chadwick said:

    a big number of students drop out of college because algebra kicks their asses? that is something. i guess we have our strengths & weaknesses.

    I wrote a paper about it when I was in college
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    chadwick said:

    im all for the trades & apprenticeship programs: heavy equipment operating, welding, truck driving, electrician, pluming & carpentry. yep harder work than a bullshit office gig or what have you. a crane operator in whatever city makes good money. the railroad is another way to go. railroad folks are not starving to death at all.

    For me it isn't about how hard the work is, it is about how many hours are required. I don't know anybody in the trades that has the luxury of a 40 hour week. Most can't even get a 50 hour week.
    That is why railroad folks are still trying to send their kids to college, so that they can have an easier life.
    Money isn't everything, time is.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,391
    riley540 said:

    chadwick said:

    a big number of students drop out of college because algebra kicks their asses? that is something. i guess we have our strengths & weaknesses.

    I wrote a paper about it when I was in college
    I'll admit I've always had an affinity for math, but I really feel it's necessary for general education, because it forces a rigidly objective way of thinking that the arts can't. Algebraic equations will always lead you to a certain answer if the rules are adhered to, whereas two essays won't ever be written the same or perceived the same. Those rules are logical structure, and logical structure is a fundamental for any form of valid persuasion (and everyone is a salesperson for a living - whether you're selling product, service, your own ideas, your own value, etc.). That being said, I'll agree that a mathematics program has failed if it hasn't shown you where to apply the things you're learning, or at least has highlighted how that form of thinking can help you in life.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    rgambs said:

    chadwick said:

    im all for the trades & apprenticeship programs: heavy equipment operating, welding, truck driving, electrician, pluming & carpentry. yep harder work than a bullshit office gig or what have you. a crane operator in whatever city makes good money. the railroad is another way to go. railroad folks are not starving to death at all.

    For me it isn't about how hard the work is, it is about how many hours are required. I don't know anybody in the trades that has the luxury of a 40 hour week. Most can't even get a 50 hour week.
    That is why railroad folks are still trying to send their kids to college, so that they can have an easier life.
    Money isn't everything, time is.
    fact, sir, & well put.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    hell with it, become rock & roll stars
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • pjalive21
    pjalive21 St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,818
    riley540 said:

    tbergs said:

    I still am wondering what you meant by political propaganda?

    I agree, not everyone should go to college if they aren't sure why or for what. High school counselors and parents should be helping their children make an informed decision. Take some time to decide if a trade is a better option or do some job shadowing.

    Not having any direction isn't an option either though.

    An example, yesterday my girlfriends communications teacher was trying to recruite students to march against Donald trump... I'm not a trump fan, but cmon. Techers shouldn't do that shit

    I went to a Liberal university and let me tell you this is the norm...one of my professors for an hour was railing on republicans and conservatives, which i am fiscally but not socially and being that i wasn't a traditional student and was older than the average college kid i challenged him on his POV and he didn't like it
  • riley540
    riley540 Denver Colorado Posts: 1,132
    pjalive21 said:

    riley540 said:

    tbergs said:

    I still am wondering what you meant by political propaganda?

    I agree, not everyone should go to college if they aren't sure why or for what. High school counselors and parents should be helping their children make an informed decision. Take some time to decide if a trade is a better option or do some job shadowing.

    Not having any direction isn't an option either though.

    An example, yesterday my girlfriends communications teacher was trying to recruite students to march against Donald trump... I'm not a trump fan, but cmon. Techers shouldn't do that shit

    I went to a Liberal university and let me tell you this is the norm...one of my professors for an hour was railing on republicans and conservatives, which i am fiscally but not socially and being that i wasn't a traditional student and was older than the average college kid i challenged him on his POV and he didn't like it
    I'm happy that someone else knows what I'm talking about! I feel like everyone in my town would be out to get me if they knew I didn't want to rally against trump right now.
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    chadwick said:

    im all for the trades & apprenticeship programs: heavy equipment operating, welding, truck driving, electrician, pluming & carpentry. yep harder work than a bullshit office gig or what have you. a crane operator in whatever city makes good money. the railroad is another way to go. railroad folks are not starving to death at all.

    I agree, especially welders. They are in crazy high demand and always have been!
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,618
    pjalive21 said:

    riley540 said:

    tbergs said:

    I still am wondering what you meant by political propaganda?

    I agree, not everyone should go to college if they aren't sure why or for what. High school counselors and parents should be helping their children make an informed decision. Take some time to decide if a trade is a better option or do some job shadowing.

    Not having any direction isn't an option either though.

    An example, yesterday my girlfriends communications teacher was trying to recruite students to march against Donald trump... I'm not a trump fan, but cmon. Techers shouldn't do that shit

    I went to a Liberal university and let me tell you this is the norm...one of my professors for an hour was railing on republicans and conservatives, which i am fiscally but not socially and being that i wasn't a traditional student and was older than the average college kid i challenged him on his POV and he didn't like it
    Did you skip research methodology class, because anecdotal stories don't establish a norm.
  • WhatYouTaughtMe
    WhatYouTaughtMe Posts: 4,957
    edited November 2016
    pjalive21 said:

    riley540 said:

    tbergs said:

    I still am wondering what you meant by political propaganda?

    I agree, not everyone should go to college if they aren't sure why or for what. High school counselors and parents should be helping their children make an informed decision. Take some time to decide if a trade is a better option or do some job shadowing.

    Not having any direction isn't an option either though.

    An example, yesterday my girlfriends communications teacher was trying to recruite students to march against Donald trump... I'm not a trump fan, but cmon. Techers shouldn't do that shit

    I went to a Liberal university and let me tell you this is the norm...one of my professors for an hour was railing on republicans and conservatives, which i am fiscally but not socially and being that i wasn't a traditional student and was older than the average college kid i challenged him on his POV and he didn't like it
    What was his specific point of view that you challenged him on? I hear these things being said about liberal bias in education, but I'm not seeing a lot of substance. As a grad student I can honestly say I don't see it. I wouldn't be able to guess the political affiliations of most of the professors I have had. True, college isn't for everyone and there is nothing wrong with earning a living without a degree, but I would never argue against more education. Are some of you saying price is the issue? Should college be free?
    Post edited by WhatYouTaughtMe on
  • pjalive21
    pjalive21 St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,818
    College should NOT be free and im for education and you are right its not for everyone

    I challenged him specifically on pushing his views that all conservatives and republicans all fall in line on every issue as he stated that they were all for taking personal rights away, anti gay, pro-life, gun huggers, bible thumpers...yadda yadda...im a hybrid and i challenged him on it and he tried telling me that if i labeled myself in any alignment with a republican view then i was a republican..not true...like i stated im conservative fiscally and socially more liberal as im pro-choice with some restrictions, pro-gay, non-religious, against the bathroom law, i could go on
  • WhatYouTaughtMe
    WhatYouTaughtMe Posts: 4,957
    edited November 2016
    pjalive21 said:

    College should NOT be free and im for education and you are right its not for everyone

    I challenged him specifically on pushing his views that all conservatives and republicans all fall in line on every issue as he stated that they were all for taking personal rights away, anti gay, pro-life, gun huggers, bible thumpers...yadda yadda...im a hybrid and i challenged him on it and he tried telling me that if i labeled myself in any alignment with a republican view then i was a republican..not true...like i stated im conservative fiscally and socially more liberal as im pro-choice with some restrictions, pro-gay, non-religious, against the bathroom law, i could go on

    So you had one professor who said these things and you feel this makes it the norm? I feel like that's a reach.

    As a side note - Didn't you just vote for someone who said he is pro-life, said women who have abortions should be punished, and wants to spend a fortune to build a wall while cutting taxes at the same time? Those things don't really seem to line up with your views.
  • pjalive21
    pjalive21 St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,818
    edited November 2016
    WhatYouTaughtMe said:

    pjalive21 said:

    College should NOT be free and im for education and you are right its not for everyone

    I challenged him specifically on pushing his views that all conservatives and republicans all fall in line on every issue as he stated that they were all for taking personal rights away, anti gay, pro-life, gun huggers, bible thumpers...yadda yadda...im a hybrid and i challenged him on it and he tried telling me that if i labeled myself in any alignment with a republican view then i was a republican..not true...like i stated im conservative fiscally and socially more liberal as im pro-choice with some restrictions, pro-gay, non-religious, against the bathroom law, i could go on

    So you had one professor who said these things and you feel this makes it the norm? I feel like that's a reach.

    As a side note - Didn't you just vote for someone who said he is pro-life, said women who have abortions should be punished, and wants to spend a fortune to build a wall while cutting taxes at the same time? Those things don't really seem to line up with your views.
    there has never been a president/candidate that has fallen in line with my views 100%
  • WhatYouTaughtMe
    WhatYouTaughtMe Posts: 4,957
    edited November 2016
    pjalive21 said:

    WhatYouTaughtMe said:

    pjalive21 said:

    College should NOT be free and im for education and you are right its not for everyone

    I challenged him specifically on pushing his views that all conservatives and republicans all fall in line on every issue as he stated that they were all for taking personal rights away, anti gay, pro-life, gun huggers, bible thumpers...yadda yadda...im a hybrid and i challenged him on it and he tried telling me that if i labeled myself in any alignment with a republican view then i was a republican..not true...like i stated im conservative fiscally and socially more liberal as im pro-choice with some restrictions, pro-gay, non-religious, against the bathroom law, i could go on

    So you had one professor who said these things and you feel this makes it the norm? I feel like that's a reach.

    As a side note - Didn't you just vote for someone who said he is pro-life, said women who have abortions should be punished, and wants to spend a fortune to build a wall while cutting taxes at the same time? Those things don't really seem to line up with your views.
    there has never been a president/candidate that has fallen in line with my views 100%
    So which one of those views you listed does Trump fall in line with? I mean, you actually voted against most of them. People voting against their own interests is a strong case for more education.
    Post edited by WhatYouTaughtMe on
  • pjalive21
    pjalive21 St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,818
    WhatYouTaughtMe said:

    pjalive21 said:

    WhatYouTaughtMe said:

    pjalive21 said:

    College should NOT be free and im for education and you are right its not for everyone

    I challenged him specifically on pushing his views that all conservatives and republicans all fall in line on every issue as he stated that they were all for taking personal rights away, anti gay, pro-life, gun huggers, bible thumpers...yadda yadda...im a hybrid and i challenged him on it and he tried telling me that if i labeled myself in any alignment with a republican view then i was a republican..not true...like i stated im conservative fiscally and socially more liberal as im pro-choice with some restrictions, pro-gay, non-religious, against the bathroom law, i could go on

    So you had one professor who said these things and you feel this makes it the norm? I feel like that's a reach.

    As a side note - Didn't you just vote for someone who said he is pro-life, said women who have abortions should be punished, and wants to spend a fortune to build a wall while cutting taxes at the same time? Those things don't really seem to line up with your views.
    there has never been a president/candidate that has fallen in line with my views 100%
    So which one of those views you listed does Trump fall in line with? I mean, you actually voted against most of them. People voting against their own interests is a strong case for more education.
    he has stated he is for the LGBT community, which is a nice change...i agree with his immigration stance on illegals and vetting, economic plan, parts of his tax plan...we will see how it all plays out...he definitely wasn't near a first choice but here he is
  • jwhjr17
    jwhjr17 Posts: 2,079
    Oh, I thought we were discussing the song... Carry on
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  • WhatYouTaughtMe
    WhatYouTaughtMe Posts: 4,957
    pjalive21 said:

    WhatYouTaughtMe said:

    pjalive21 said:

    WhatYouTaughtMe said:

    pjalive21 said:

    College should NOT be free and im for education and you are right its not for everyone

    I challenged him specifically on pushing his views that all conservatives and republicans all fall in line on every issue as he stated that they were all for taking personal rights away, anti gay, pro-life, gun huggers, bible thumpers...yadda yadda...im a hybrid and i challenged him on it and he tried telling me that if i labeled myself in any alignment with a republican view then i was a republican..not true...like i stated im conservative fiscally and socially more liberal as im pro-choice with some restrictions, pro-gay, non-religious, against the bathroom law, i could go on

    So you had one professor who said these things and you feel this makes it the norm? I feel like that's a reach.

    As a side note - Didn't you just vote for someone who said he is pro-life, said women who have abortions should be punished, and wants to spend a fortune to build a wall while cutting taxes at the same time? Those things don't really seem to line up with your views.
    there has never been a president/candidate that has fallen in line with my views 100%
    So which one of those views you listed does Trump fall in line with? I mean, you actually voted against most of them. People voting against their own interests is a strong case for more education.
    he has stated he is for the LGBT community, which is a nice change...i agree with his immigration stance on illegals and vetting, economic plan, parts of his tax plan...we will see how it all plays out...he definitely wasn't near a first choice but here he is
    He says he is for the LGBT community but his choices say otherwise. His VP choice actually believes in conversion therapy. How does someone who is pro LGBT reconcile that decision? Or Bannon?
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,263
    edited November 2016
    Most 4 year degrees are a waste of time. Unless you are going to do heart surgery or something that is important for public safety, I think 2 years in your core field is enough and then you'll learn more on the job in 1 year than you would have in the four you would have spent in college wasting your money.

    In most careers you continually learn new things throughout your career, and the first two years are a huge learning curve. So, if you could leave school after 2 years knowing 10% of what you'll end up learning in your career, versus leaving school after 4 years knowing 15% of what you'll end up needing to know in your career, than I would choose the two year option and start getting paid to learn the rest.
    Post edited by bootlegger10 on
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,893
    WhatYouTaughtMe said:

    pjalive21 said:

    College should NOT be free and im for education and you are right its not for everyone

    I challenged him specifically on pushing his views that all conservatives and republicans all fall in line on every issue as he stated that they were all for taking personal rights away, anti gay, pro-life, gun huggers, bible thumpers...yadda yadda...im a hybrid and i challenged him on it and he tried telling me that if i labeled myself in any alignment with a republican view then i was a republican..not true...like i stated im conservative fiscally and socially more liberal as im pro-choice with some restrictions, pro-gay, non-religious, against the bathroom law, i could go on

    So you had one professor who said these things and you feel this makes it the norm? I feel like that's a reach.

    As a side note - Didn't you just vote for someone who said he is pro-life, said women who have abortions should be punished, and wants to spend a fortune to build a wall while cutting taxes at the same time? Those things don't really seem to line up with your views.
    As repeated a hundred time in other threads, that is a gross misrepresentation of what Trump actually said or what said he plans to do. Not really related to this thread, but the things taken out of context about this election is just getting ridiculous and out of control at this point.

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