BLM a terrorist organization??

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  • Posts: 6,499
    Go Beavers said:

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    It's an opinion supported by facts about police shootings, enforcement, and sentencing, and watching people run defense of police that they were culturally raised to trust by saying it's a few bad apples.
    What about the fact that most of these shootings have been deemed justified in the court of law? What about a lawless culture that has been brought up to believe that the police are the bad guys?
    I think the "few bad apples" defense is actually a pretty good one, most officers that I know are not people that I would label as racist bigots!
  • Posts: 16,881
    pjhawks said:

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    isn't the behavior of young black men in this country part of the solution as well? and frankly would be a much bigger part of the solution but BLM and guys like Kaepernick can't or won't discuss that.
    I agree that there is a double standard with regards to accountability in this issue.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Posts: 9,555
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

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    I agree that there is a double standard with regards to accountability in this issue.
    What there is is white privilege that says as a white person, I don't have to speak about or be held accountable for whites who behave badly, yet somehow a racial minority needs to not only speak to issue of members of the same race who behave poorly, but do so in an amount and manner to meet standards set by white people.

    Also, are you suggesting that if blacks would just behave, the unarmed ones would get shot at an equal rate to unarmed whites, as well as have their rights respected on the same level whites are?
  • Posts: 9,478
    I really like his take on this.

    Abdul-Jabbar: Insulting Colin Kaepernick says more about our patriotism than his

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/08/30/insulting-colin-kaepernick-says-more-about-our-patriotism-than-his/?utm_term=.b73f262e2da7
  • Posts: 16,881
    Go Beavers said:

    show previous quotes
    What there is is white privilege that says as a white person, I don't have to speak about or be held accountable for whites who behave badly, yet somehow a racial minority needs to not only speak to issue of members of the same race who behave poorly, but do so in an amount and manner to meet standards set by white people.

    Also, are you suggesting that if blacks would just behave, the unarmed ones would get shot at an equal rate to unarmed whites, as well as have their rights respected on the same level whites are?
    All people behaving badly meet my disapproval.

    For decades, the inner cities have experienced rampant violence that have not gather much attention, let alone national outrage and riots. And now, after a few sensationalized high profile cop shootings... the cops are the problem according to some. This is some serious oversimplification.

    Cops are definitely part of the problem, but if you are pointing fingers... make sure to point one in the mirror. Your country's broken social infrastructure has kept the impoverished oppressed. Your social infrastructure is broken because the advantaged- not just the uber rich, but you too- would have to give or share to fix it... and I get the sense there is very little will to do that (taxes seem to be a dirty word to most Americans I've talked to).

    And... the participants in crime... as shitty as their circumstances are... have a large part of culpability here too: ultimately, the most given the context your country has established for itself.

    'Standards set by white people'. Interesting.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Posts: 9,555
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    show previous quotes
    All people behaving badly meet my disapproval.

    For decades, the inner cities have experienced rampant violence that have not gather much attention, let alone national outrage and riots. And now, after a few sensationalized high profile cop shootings... the cops are the problem according to some. This is some serious oversimplification.

    Cops are definitely part of the problem, but if you are pointing fingers... make sure to point one in the mirror. Your country's broken social infrastructure has kept the impoverished oppressed. Your social infrastructure is broken because the advantaged- not just the uber rich, but you too- would have to give or share to fix it... and I get the sense there is very little will to do that (taxes seem to be a dirty word to most Americans I've talked to).

    And... the participants in crime... as shitty as their circumstances are... have a large part of culpability here too: ultimately, the most given the context your country has established for itself.

    'Standards set by white people'. Interesting.
    That's fine that they meet your disapproval, but when white people commit crimes, no one asks me to do something about it because I'm the same race. That's what I mean by 'standards set by white people'. A lot of whites will deflect the issue of police abuse by referencing how the issue will be looked at once you deal with black on black crime first. It's a way to place blame on others.

    What you're seeing is cops abusing their power, which has been going on since there were cops, and more so directed at blacks. There's been significant rioting off and on since the 60's. The difference now is that everyone has the ability to shoot video and upload it right away. Before, it was easier for people to ignore it and compartmentalize it. People want to distract from the issue by referencing other issues related to inequality. Those issues are worthy, of course, but police abusing their power shouldn't take a back seat.
  • Posts: 12,912
    edited August 2016
    Go Beavers said:

    show previous quotes
    What there is is white privilege that says as a white person, I don't have to speak about or be held accountable for whites who behave badly, yet somehow a racial minority needs to not only speak to issue of members of the same race who behave poorly, but do so in an amount and manner to meet standards set by white people.

    Also, are you suggesting that if blacks would just behave, the unarmed ones would get shot at an equal rate to unarmed whites, as well as have their rights respected on the same level whites are?
    if a group of people had a negative perception of you, you can either ignore it and continue doing what you are currently doing and let the negative perception perpetuate or you can make changes within yourself and your own neighborhood to begin to change the perception. right now the perception of young black males is not positive in many communities, even amongst the black community. it's not a one-sided problem or issue. all sides have to look at their behavior and make appropriate changes.



    Post edited by pjhawks on
  • Posts: 9,555
    So you're basically saying that blacks should accept this generalization and prejudice and work to change that attitude in others, rather than deal with the notion that the black person who is not a criminal has nothing to do with the black person who is? (this is an example of white privilege, by the way)
  • Posts: 16,881
    Go Beavers said:

    show previous quotes
    That's fine that they meet your disapproval, but when white people commit crimes, no one asks me to do something about it because I'm the same race. That's what I mean by 'standards set by white people'. A lot of whites will deflect the issue of police abuse by referencing how the issue will be looked at once you deal with black on black crime first. It's a way to place blame on others.

    What you're seeing is cops abusing their power, which has been going on since there were cops, and more so directed at blacks. There's been significant rioting off and on since the 60's. The difference now is that everyone has the ability to shoot video and upload it right away. Before, it was easier for people to ignore it and compartmentalize it. People want to distract from the issue by referencing other issues related to inequality. Those issues are worthy, of course, but police abusing their power shouldn't take a back seat.
    Crime rates are off the charts in inner city neighbourhoods. Yes... there are reasons for this, but let's not deny the obvious. So, it goes without saying that police encounters with black people in inner city neighbourhoods are going to be more frequent... leading to more poorly handled encounters on a proportionate level (not all the encounters we have discussed have been handled poorly despite what has sparked outrage). Further, attitudes within cops towards inner city people are- given human nature- going to steer cops and their actions while on duty. I'm not giving them a pass for developing racial bias... I'm saying they become jaded and guarded given the body of work we instruct them to perform. If we are in the business of understanding... then let's understand everything.

    But yes, some cops have abused their powers. And some black people have engaged themselves in crime creating the situation that demands law enforcement. And many white (and black) people have pointed fingers at the situation not understanding their inherent level of culpability. Are you ready for a 10% tax hike to develop social structures that stand a chance of offering an inner city young black man options other than Carl's Jr or crime?

    If you read my last post, I'm not saying it's up to black people to figure this out. I've said it's up to everybody including you- I'm not sure why you seem to be suggesting I'm only blaming blacks?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Posts: 12,912
    Go Beavers said:

    So you're basically saying that blacks should accept this generalization and prejudice and work to change that attitude in others, rather than deal with the notion that the black person who is not a criminal has nothing to do with the black person who is? (this is an example of white privilege, by the way)

    well no, i think it's the 1st question the black community should be asking themselves. ok why are we thought of like this? is there truth to it or not? If there is some truth what do we do to fix it? the statistics on race and crime would suggest there is truth to it but pointing that out just leads to charges of racism , whether pointed out by a black or white person. which you helped proved by your in parenthesis comment.
  • Posts: 9,555
    edited September 2016
    Thirty Bills, your first paragraph outlines the prejudice, and your second one makes excuses to maintain a certain status quo, and your third one is taking away from the topic at hand, which is police abuse by way of prejudice. Taking the thought of how blacks are arrested for crimes at a higher rate is the root of the prejudice belief that blacks are more prone to violence and crime. This belief is the main starting point for police abusing their power. Under stress, this belief will be more likely to surface and change behaviors, e.g. a white person reaching into their jacket is getting their I.D., and black person reaching into their jacket is getting their gun. The fact that there is no correlation between crime rates in urban areas vs. the rate unarmed blacks get shot by cops reveals that some police departments do a good job with hiring and training in this area so that the individual is more aware of how to not let prejudice factor into the interactions, and other do a bad job in this area and let it fester and grow. Police discrimination is not just an urban issue. It happens in smaller towns and rural areas as well. The black guy on my street is no more prone to illegal behavior than I am, but people think that he is.
    Post edited by Go Beavers on
  • Posts: 12,912
    Go Beavers said:

    Thirty Bills, your first paragraph outlines the prejudice, and your second one makes excuses to maintain a certain status quo, and your third one is taking away from the topic at hand, which is police abuse by way of prejudice. Taking the thought of how blacks are arrested for crimes at a higher rate is the root of the prejudice belief that blacks are more prone to violence and crime. This belief is the main starting point for police abusing their power. Under stress, this belief will be more likely to surface and change behaviors, e.g. a white person reaching into their jacket is getting their I.D., and black person reaching into their jacket is getting their gun. The fact that there is no correlation between crime rates in urban areas vs. the rate unarmed blacks get shot by cops reveals that some police departments do a good job with hiring and training in this area so that the individual is more aware of how to not let prejudice factor into the interactions, and other do a bad job in this area and let it fester and grow. Police discrimination is not just an urban issue. It happens in smaller towns and rural areas as well. The black guy on my street is no more prone to illegal behavior than I am, but people think that he is.

    he may not be, but his sex and race is, ergo why police and society tends to be suspicious of black males.
  • Posts: 9,555
    People think his race is because the prejudice is tied to the visual. We see something, and all the prejudice garbage we've been given gets triggered. Some have sorted through their garbage more than others.
  • Posts: 12,912
    Go Beavers said:

    People think his race is because the prejudice is tied to the visual. We see something, and all the prejudice garbage we've been given gets triggered. Some have sorted through their garbage more than others.

    what? do you mean the visual of the actual statistics? the stats are what they are.
  • Posts: 9,555
    People use the statistic to justify the prejudice. In my town, blacks aren't committing crime disproportionately, but that doesn't stop the prejudicial thought in some people. I'm saying the visual triggers the prejudice. People then use a stat to maintain the prejudice.
  • Posts: 12,912
    edited September 2016
    Go Beavers said:

    People use the statistic to justify the prejudice. In my town, blacks aren't committing crime disproportionately, but that doesn't stop the prejudicial thought in some people. I'm saying the visual triggers the prejudice. People then use a stat to maintain the prejudice.

    ok i see what you are saying now. i can agree that does make some sense when you break it down neighborhood by neighborhood like that. i can say i wasn't thinking along those lines, but more in general terms. maybe you have a point there. something to think about on my end i think.
    Post edited by pjhawks on
  • Posts: 31,274
    I live at ground zero of BLM hate - Utah - our dumb ass representatives rip the BLM at any chance they get.......and then want the BLM to "fix" the salt flats just so peple can drive cars fast.....and I do like speed week but you can't have it both ways. just like utah hates the "feds" until we need fed money for fire or flood relief.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
    Missoula 24
  • Posts: 16,881
    edited September 2016
    Go Beavers said:

    Thirty Bills, your first paragraph outlines the prejudice, and your second one makes excuses to maintain a certain status quo, and your third one is taking away from the topic at hand, which is police abuse by way of prejudice. Taking the thought of how blacks are arrested for crimes at a higher rate is the root of the prejudice belief that blacks are more prone to violence and crime. This belief is the main starting point for police abusing their power. Under stress, this belief will be more likely to surface and change behaviors, e.g. a white person reaching into their jacket is getting their I.D., and black person reaching into their jacket is getting their gun. The fact that there is no correlation between crime rates in urban areas vs. the rate unarmed blacks get shot by cops reveals that some police departments do a good job with hiring and training in this area so that the individual is more aware of how to not let prejudice factor into the interactions, and other do a bad job in this area and let it fester and grow. Police discrimination is not just an urban issue. It happens in smaller towns and rural areas as well. The black guy on my street is no more prone to illegal behavior than I am, but people think that he is.

    No.

    I could comment about much of this, but I'll try and limit myself to your claim that my second paragraph is an excuse to maintain the status quo. Give me a f**kibg break.

    I spoke to it earlier: the impoverished will remain impoverished until the well offs (I believe I said you were one of these) are prepared to share (more taxes). I spoke to improving social programming in meaningful fashion so that there is hope for people born to poverty. Christ man... inner city kids don't even know what it's like to eat fresh food periodically (given the lack of markets vs fast food chains).

    You speak to better training for law enforcement. Well pshew! Maybe... just maybe... that might result in fewer young black men getting shot when they didn't need to be. It doesn't fix the bigger problem though.

    Of course, the aforementioned means very little if you are telling me- correctly so- that there is an equitable balance of whites and blacks in America's inner cities. I'm under the impression your country's worst neighbourhoods are reserved for your black population.

    Get to the underlying issues and then the point of the problem disappears (in my mind).

    Blacks, whites, purples... makes no difference given an equal playing field.
    Post edited by Thirty Bills Unpaid on
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    I was struck by the importance at looking back in time at the race issues in America and particularly the importance of listening to the people who best understand and explain the perspective of Black Americans. Groups like BLM, and people like Dr. Cornel West and on back-- Audre Lorde, Shirley Chisholm, Dick Gregory, MLK, Stokely Carmichael, Malcolm X to name a few.

    And The Last Poets. This is what caught my attention today was reading an AllMusic review of The Last Poets self titled album in which the reviewer described the Poet's records as an "unheeded warning". That was a number of years ago but I think it holds. We would do well to be listening to these people.

    http://www.allmusic.com/album/the-last-poets-mw0000193186


    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Posts: 9,555
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    show previous quotes
    No.

    I could comment about much of this, but I'll try and limit myself to your claim that my second paragraph is an excuse to maintain the status quo. Give me a f**kibg break.

    I spoke to it earlier: the impoverished will remain impoverished until the well offs (I believe I said you were one of these) are prepared to share (more taxes). I spoke to improving social programming in meaningful fashion so that there is hope for people born to poverty. Christ man... inner city kids don't even know what it's like to eat fresh food periodically (given the lack of markets vs fast food chains).

    You speak to better training for law enforcement. Well pshew! Maybe... just maybe... that might result in fewer young black men getting shot when they didn't need to be. It doesn't fix the bigger problem though.

    Of course, the aforementioned means very little if you are telling me- correctly so- that there is an equitable balance of whites and blacks in America's inner cities. I'm under the impression your country's worst neighbourhoods are reserved for your black population.

    Get to the underlying issues and then the point of the problem disappears (in my mind).

    Blacks, whites, purples... makes no difference given an equal playing field.
    People defending police abusing their power routinely refer to a higher arrest rate for black as the reason, that's why I made that statement. I have no problem with creating change for economic equality, but that doesn't always eliminate racism and stereotypes. And it also takes a longer amount of time. Change within the local police department is more focused, faster, and easier to do.

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