Does anybody agree with me and Ed on this?

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  • tschav
    tschav Posts: 2,900
    EnterThanman said:

    I can appreciate the perspective, but I don't agree at all. Those early days were raw and exciting, and full of genuine passion that was tangible in the performances. Had they come out of the gates as some composed professionals, I'm not sure I would have gravitated to them to the same extent that I did. The vulnerability is what made those shows so good. Ed says testosterone driven, but it never came across that way to me, just passionate. I wouldn't want to change anything about those early days. At the same time, the way they have evolved over the last 25 years has been commendable, and had they stayed the people they were at the start, that may have worn thin as well.

    Their energy and angst syncs well with a lot of us... over time we all needed to grow up and gain perspective. Part of what makes this band relevant to a lot of us is that we're growing in some capacity together, and each album release ties a little of that evolution into our lives. I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees critical moments in my life somehow related to a new song or album over the past 25 years.
  • ladydocNYC
    ladydocNYC Posts: 635
    slightofjeff said:

    PJ-Cubs said:

    They're in their 50s. Nothing more ridiculous than a 50-year-old trying to hold on to their 20s. Evolve or die.
    .

    Yes! that was really my main point. That they have gone from a familiar if extreme youthful and limited range of emotions, to an intelligent, compelling evolution. Ed in particular, with all he had to overcome. May we all do so well. How many examples do we have in popular of how to resist trying to hold on to our 20s, and actually fricking figuring out how to do this trip through phases of life?
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,778
    I agree, ladydoc. The first time I saw Pearl Jam was the night they played "Alive" on SNL. I appreciated their energy and enthusiasm and liked the song but the whole bare-chested, red faced, strutting like dudes thing got old really fast for me and, like you, I pretty much ignored them for several years. But during their middle period, when "Yield", "No Code" and "Riot Act" and "Self Titled" came out, I took notice again. They became serious about their art as well as their energy. I keep waiting for this band to come out with something that for me works on this level. That middle period is what makes this band for me. The early stuff and the last couple of records hold little interest for me. I still like the energy of the band and seeing them live in Missoula in 2012 ranks among the best live performances I've ever seen and that includes seeing Hendrix twice, "Who Sell Out" era The Who, "Reckoning" era REM and other excellent shows. What I've liked the most about PJ is when they have mixed that high level energy with more mature song craft.

    And none of this is meant to dismiss any of their work. I don't believe in putting down any artistic work. Whatever doesn't work for me I ignore and am fine with it working for others.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Zod
    Zod Posts: 10,953
    edited August 2016
    Not really. I was in my mid teens when PJ got big. I loved that era of the band. The band is is about 11 or 12 years older than me but I've always felt they've aged at a similar rate to me. Thus I've appreciated their entire career. They had a lot of piss and vinegar in their youth, I loved it :) Wouldn't have it any other way.
    Post edited by Zod on
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    "Bare-chested, red-faced strutting like dudes thing" .... lol

    People out here acting like Ed was frickin Glenn Danzig or something.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,778
    slightofjeff said:

    "Bare-chested, red-faced strutting like dudes thing" .... lol

    People out here acting like Ed was frickin Glenn Danzig or something.

    image
    image

    :lol:
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • EdsonNascimento
    EdsonNascimento Posts: 5,531
    You are way over analyzing. It's music, entertainment. He wasn't abusive nor harming anyone. For you to call him a shithead is arrogant on your part. Just listen to the music and stop being so pompous.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • Vedder Vitamins
    Vedder Vitamins Posts: 401
    Could write quite a bit in response however I'll leave it at this...

    If the road you followed brought you to here, of what use was the road?
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  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Vedder Vitamins said:

    Could write quite a bit in response however I'll leave it at this...

    If the road you followed brought you to here, of what use was the road?

    Maybe because it's a lovely and buzzed Friday evening here for me, but reading your post (great question, by the way), my first thought was the line from Heaven & Earth (pretty sure I'm butchering it a bit) - "The road to nirvana is tricky and steep, but if you only walk on sunny days, you'll never reach your destination."

    I think walking that road is the destination, at least for me. Learn to get through, maybe even triumph over, the stormy days.

    Then revel in those with sunshine.
  • Vedder Vitamins
    Vedder Vitamins Posts: 401
    hedonist said:

    Vedder Vitamins said:

    Could write quite a bit in response however I'll leave it at this...

    If the road you followed brought you to here, of what use was the road?

    Maybe because it's a lovely and buzzed Friday evening here for me, but reading your post (great question, by the way), my first thought was the line from Heaven & Earth (pretty sure I'm butchering it a bit) - "The road to nirvana is tricky and steep, but if you only walk on sunny days, you'll never reach your destination."

    I think walking that road is the destination, at least for me. Learn to get through, maybe even triumph over, the stormy days.

    Then revel in those with sunshine.
    This is great hedonist!!!! Seriously
    4/6/94, 4/10/94, 4/11/94
    9/26/96, 9/28/96, 10/2/96
    6/14/98, 9/13/98, 9/15/98, 9/16/98
    8/3/00, 8/29/00, 8/30/00
    7/2/03, 7/3/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03
    9/28/04, 9/29/04
    5/24/06, 5/25/06
    6/28/08, 6/30/08, 8/1/08, 8/2/08
    5/17/10
    10/15/13, 10/16/13
    8/5/16, 8/7/16
    9/4/18, 9/4/18
  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,696
    slightofjeff said:

    I'm not sure I ever thought Ed was an asshole. Tortured, for sure. But never an asshole. You could hear his heart through his songs, even the early ones.

    That's what drew me to the band from the first note. You could tell this was a person that felt the whole world outside of himself.

    Angry is the word I always think of. He came in with a chip on his shoulder (anger that was intertwined with torture)...and put it right on the tape Jeff sent him. The anger was magnified by the spotlight and microscope.

    I don't think he was necessarily ever an asshole, either. But he was surly. Angry about things most of the rest of us assume we'd eat up. He really did not know what to do. Throw in a stalker, accusations of selling out, the difficulty in pleasing fans, and it's probably a miracle the band made it through intact.

    Sometimes I miss "Angry Ed." But had Happy Ed not replaced him, Pearl Jam would probably be long in our past.

    As to the OP's discussion of whether they are better now...I kinda think so. It's hard to say. Their first five albums are probably better than the subsequent five (though not, in my opinion, by as large of a margin as most would think). But as good as they were in the early days, they are better now than anyone probably would have projected them to be. Look at the shows. They're just going out for three hours a night, with good humor, an unbelievable number of songs from which to choose, and a ton of energy. They were always a good live band, but for any newer band, the smart money is NOT on them being around in 25 years and still being relevant and putting on crowd-pleasing shows...oh, and I love Lightning Bolt. I tend to think they are better now...but at the very least, they're doing something quite rare.
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  • on2legs
    on2legs Posts: 16,070
    EdsonNascimento said:

    You are way over analyzing. It's music, entertainment. He wasn't abusive nor harming anyone. For you to call him a shithead is arrogant on your part. Just listen to the music and stop being so pompous.

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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 40,014
    The things that captured me about the band during the early years is that I identified with them, and Ed, during that time I eas 17 when Ten came out). Ed was angry, but he didn't always know how to express it, so it just came out as an angry vomit; all at once, all mixed together, almost unrecognizable. A composit of all the shit he had recently digested. I appreciate their live shows now, for the musicianship, for the positivity, fir the commeraderie with the audience. But i also appreciate the earlier perfirmances that captivated me to begin with, the unadulterated rage, the indirect passion. I first saw them right before VS came out. I last saw them on the Lightning Bolt tour. Its like two completely different experiences, but equal in importance to me. And maybe to them too.

    We are all embarassed by our behaviour in our younger, less-directed years. But without those, we wouldn't be where we are today.

    The only show Ed should be embarrassed about is the Singles party. Lol. But its an epic story. No epic story is without embarassment.
    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • KV4053
    KV4053 Mike's side, crushed up against the stage Posts: 1,514
    I saw PJ for the first time in April 1992 and several times more until the ticket master issue. Ed was never an asshole. He was always much deeper, honest, and caring, especially compared to his contemporaries.

    Beyond that, I agree with you.
    I know I was born and I know that I'll die. The in between is mine.
  • KV4053
    KV4053 Mike's side, crushed up against the stage Posts: 1,514
    KV4053 said:

    I saw PJ for the first time in April 1992 and several times more until the ticket master issue. Ed was never an asshole. He was always much deeper, honest, and caring, especially compared to his contemporaries.

    Beyond that, I agree with you.

    And now I disagree with myself.... for even pretending to know him.
    I know I was born and I know that I'll die. The in between is mine.
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 40,014
    I actually agree with the OP on the asshole bit. Ed was very holier than thou in the beginning. It was kind of his way or the highway, and he often came off as kind of dick headed about it. Remember him calling out marky mark and madonna on new years eve in 92? He came off as kind of dickish at that show. I found it humourous at the time I heard it, but thought "if this was a rock star I didn't like, I could easily rip him for this".
    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • ladydocNYC
    ladydocNYC Posts: 635
    brianlux said:

    I agree, ladydoc. The first time I saw Pearl Jam was the night they played "Alive" on SNL. I appreciated their energy and enthusiasm and liked the song but the whole bare-chested, red faced, strutting like dudes thing got old really fast for me and, like you, I pretty much ignored them for several years. But during their middle period, when "Yield", "No Code" and "Riot Act" and "Self Titled" came out, I took notice again. They became serious about their art as well as their energy. I keep waiting for this band to come out with something that for me works on this level. That middle period is what makes this band for me. The early stuff and the last couple of records hold little interest for me. I still like the energy of the band and seeing them live in Missoula in 2012 ranks among the best live performances I've ever seen and that includes seeing Hendrix twice, "Who Sell Out" era The Who, "Reckoning" era REM and other excellent shows. What I've liked the most about PJ is when they have mixed that high level energy with more mature song craft.

    And none of this is meant to dismiss any of their work. I don't believe in putting down any artistic work. Whatever doesn't work for me I ignore and am fine with it working for others.

    Wow I found my soul mate! That one other person gets it is really cool!
  • VOLARE
    VOLARE Posts: 315
    I feel blessed this band came along when it did in my life. I feel like I've been in step with all these changes and metamorphoses. I get it when people say it's been a soundtrack to their life. It's been so wonderful. Probably has to do a lot with being of similar ages and growing up at the same time for me. Just lucky to have a band I care about and respect continue to produce quality music while at the same time make me feel proud to be a fan of them. I hope they just continue going forward.
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  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Thank you, double-V :)
  • slightofjeff
    slightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    Those draw of those early shows was, basically, "here is a guy opening a vein and bleeding for you every single night." It was raw and it was visceral and you couldn't not watch.

    But that can only last so long before you run out of blood to bleed.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do

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