I do think that Eddie was pretty rude sometimes when he was younger, and that never appealed to me. I also never really went in for the whole "grunge angst" thing, and while Kurt Cobain was the king of angst, which is why I never liked him at all, Eddie was a little more mature about it at least. Yeah, he was angry and sometimes got rude because of it, but he wasn't completely miserable/full of angst like Cobain and all the intolerable angsty teens of the day IMO. He had anger, some of which seemed justified to the point where I admired that he was mad about it because rightly so, but he never got super pissy and overly negative I don't think, plus he maintained kind of a sense of humour and got along with everyone, and actively cared about certain issues of the day and actively addressed them, so I don't think he was an asshole at all. Just an emotionally expressive artist who was hit over the head with too much instant fame. I don't blame him for being mad half the time with the way he was hounded, stalked, and made unable to walk around in public, and especially with the way he and his GF/wife at the time were treated by a lot of female fans. What I really liked about him in the old days was that he wasn't a drug addict.
Yes, the not being a drug addict is the best. He survived. Everyone else in Nirvana survived. Ed was angry at the world, not self-loathing. Big difference. I even wondered if, at times, the eyebrow furrowing was showmanship. And that's okay. If he had actually been angry as often as it appeared, he would have imploded.
(Curious: How were they treated by female fans?)
Female fans who were in love with Eddie harassed him and irritated him generally with all the I love yous and crazy sexually driven fan adoration I think (I bet he wished he was less hot pretty quickly, hahaha), but they also were mean about Beth, like yelling "fuck you bitch" and stuff like that at her because they were jealous of her. I think all of that really pissed Eddie off a lot (not to mention the straight up stalking problems from the psycho fans, most of whom were female).
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I do think that Eddie was pretty rude sometimes when he was younger, and that never appealed to me. I also never really went in for the whole "grunge angst" thing, and while Kurt Cobain was the king of angst, which is why I never liked him at all, Eddie was a little more mature about it at least. Yeah, he was angry and sometimes got rude because of it, but he wasn't completely miserable/full of angst like Cobain and all the intolerable angsty teens of the day IMO. He had anger, some of which seemed justified to the point where I admired that he was mad about it because rightly so, but he never got super pissy and overly negative I don't think, plus he maintained kind of a sense of humour and got along with everyone, and actively cared about certain issues of the day and actively addressed them, so I don't think he was an asshole at all. Just an emotionally expressive artist who was hit over the head with too much instant fame. I don't blame him for being mad half the time with the way he was hounded, stalked, and made unable to walk around in public, and especially with the way he and his GF/wife at the time were treated by a lot of female fans. What I really liked about him in the old days was that he wasn't a drug addict.
Yes, the not being a drug addict is the best. He survived. Everyone else in Nirvana survived. Ed was angry at the world, not self-loathing. Big difference. I even wondered if, at times, the eyebrow furrowing was showmanship. And that's okay. If he had actually been angry as often as it appeared, he would have imploded.
(Curious: How were they treated by female fans?)
Female fans who were in love with Eddie harassed him and irritated him generally with all the I love yous and crazy sexually driven fan adoration I think (I bet he wished he was less hot pretty quickly, hahaha), but they also were mean about Beth, like yelling "fuck you bitch" and stuff like that at her because they were jealous of her. I think all of that really pissed Eddie off a lot (not to mention the straight up stalking problems from the psycho fans, most of whom were female).
I do think that Eddie was pretty rude sometimes when he was younger, and that never appealed to me. I also never really went in for the whole "grunge angst" thing, and while Kurt Cobain was the king of angst, which is why I never liked him at all, Eddie was a little more mature about it at least. Yeah, he was angry and sometimes got rude because of it, but he wasn't completely miserable/full of angst like Cobain and all the intolerable angsty teens of the day IMO. He had anger, some of which seemed justified to the point where I admired that he was mad about it because rightly so, but he never got super pissy and overly negative I don't think, plus he maintained kind of a sense of humour and got along with everyone, and actively cared about certain issues of the day and actively addressed them, so I don't think he was an asshole at all. Just an emotionally expressive artist who was hit over the head with too much instant fame. I don't blame him for being mad half the time with the way he was hounded, stalked, and made unable to walk around in public, and especially with the way he and his GF/wife at the time were treated by a lot of female fans. What I really liked about him in the old days was that he wasn't a drug addict.
Yes, the not being a drug addict is the best. He survived. Everyone else in Nirvana survived. Ed was angry at the world, not self-loathing. Big difference. I even wondered if, at times, the eyebrow furrowing was showmanship. And that's okay. If he had actually been angry as often as it appeared, he would have imploded.
(Curious: How were they treated by female fans?)
Female fans who were in love with Eddie harassed him and irritated him generally with all the I love yous and crazy sexually driven fan adoration I think (I bet he wished he was less hot pretty quickly, hahaha), but they also were mean about Beth, like yelling "fuck you bitch" and stuff like that at her because they were jealous of her. I think all of that really pissed Eddie off a lot (not to mention the straight up stalking problems from the psycho fans, most of whom were female).
Imagine if Facebook or Twitter were around then?
Though it seems times haven't changed, too much.
Haha, well at least people can avoid Twitter and Facebook if they choose to (seems to me that Eddie does indeed avoid both). It was harder back then when most things still happened in real life.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I do think that Eddie was pretty rude sometimes when he was younger, and that never appealed to me. I also never really went in for the whole "grunge angst" thing, and while Kurt Cobain was the king of angst, which is why I never liked him at all, Eddie was a little more mature about it at least. Yeah, he was angry and sometimes got rude because of it, but he wasn't completely miserable/full of angst like Cobain and all the intolerable angsty teens of the day IMO. He had anger, some of which seemed justified to the point where I admired that he was mad about it because rightly so, but he never got super pissy and overly negative I don't think, plus he maintained kind of a sense of humour and got along with everyone, and actively cared about certain issues of the day and actively addressed them, so I don't think he was an asshole at all. Just an emotionally expressive artist who was hit over the head with too much instant fame. I don't blame him for being mad half the time with the way he was hounded, stalked, and made unable to walk around in public, and especially with the way he and his GF/wife at the time were treated by a lot of female fans. What I really liked about him in the old days was that he wasn't a drug addict.
Yes, the not being a drug addict is the best. He survived. Everyone else in Nirvana survived. Ed was angry at the world, not self-loathing. Big difference. I even wondered if, at times, the eyebrow furrowing was showmanship. And that's okay. If he had actually been angry as often as it appeared, he would have imploded.
(Curious: How were they treated by female fans?)
Female fans who were in love with Eddie harassed him and irritated him generally with all the I love yous and crazy sexually driven fan adoration I think (I bet he wished he was less hot pretty quickly, hahaha), but they also were mean about Beth, like yelling "fuck you bitch" and stuff like that at her because they were jealous of her. I think all of that really pissed Eddie off a lot (not to mention the straight up stalking problems from the psycho fans, most of whom were female).
I didn't know stuff like that had happened. Crazy.
At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults.
I'm going to quote an old Public Enemy song: "When I get mad I put it down on pad, and give you something that you never had."
I'm glad that Ed put his rage/dissatisfaction/grievances into the music instead of into his arm. He had some jerk moments (like the awful mosquito bite rant); still does. But I'm thrilled there wasn't a camera pointed at me all through my teens and 20s. I'm sure we all are.
After listening almost exclusive to live recordings for the longest time (like most of us, I suppose), I listened to Vs. recently. That's some excellent, creative musicianship from Stone, Jeff, Mike and Dave. And Ed's voice. I don't care if they were less "trained" in the 90s or irritated Andy Rooney with their angst. The thing about youth is that the problems are smaller (if you're lucky), but it all seems so urgent and huge. That's just the way teens/20-somethings are wired. So where did all the young pissed off artists go? I watched the VMAs, and that music is empty. (The VMAs weren't always that way.) Beyonce (who is 34) was the only one saying anything of substance.
"the mosquito bite rant". what is that one?
At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults. It was probably the wine talking, but it's a pretty misogynistic rant.
I do think that Eddie was pretty rude sometimes when he was younger, and that never appealed to me. I also never really went in for the whole "grunge angst" thing, and while Kurt Cobain was the king of angst, which is why I never liked him at all, Eddie was a little more mature about it at least. Yeah, he was angry and sometimes got rude because of it, but he wasn't completely miserable/full of angst like Cobain and all the intolerable angsty teens of the day IMO. He had anger, some of which seemed justified to the point where I admired that he was mad about it because rightly so, but he never got super pissy and overly negative I don't think, plus he maintained kind of a sense of humour and got along with everyone, and actively cared about certain issues of the day and actively addressed them, so I don't think he was an asshole at all. Just an emotionally expressive artist who was hit over the head with too much instant fame. I don't blame him for being mad half the time with the way he was hounded, stalked, and made unable to walk around in public, and especially with the way he and his GF/wife at the time were treated by a lot of female fans. What I really liked about him in the old days was that he wasn't a drug addict.
Yes, the not being a drug addict is the best. He survived. Everyone else in Nirvana survived. Ed was angry at the world, not self-loathing. Big difference. I even wondered if, at times, the eyebrow furrowing was showmanship. And that's okay. If he had actually been angry as often as it appeared, he would have imploded.
(Curious: How were they treated by female fans?)
Female fans who were in love with Eddie harassed him and irritated him generally with all the I love yous and crazy sexually driven fan adoration I think (I bet he wished he was less hot pretty quickly, hahaha), but they also were mean about Beth, like yelling "fuck you bitch" and stuff like that at her because they were jealous of her. I think all of that really pissed Eddie off a lot (not to mention the straight up stalking problems from the psycho fans, most of whom were female).
I didn't know stuff like that had happened. Crazy.
I hadn't seen or heard that one before. Beyond cringe-worthy.
That bro-wave shit is pretty reprehensible, and I'd be embarrassed if I were EV on that one, but I do think it's a pretty far outlier (unless I'm being naive). I don't believe that drunk dude is the band or the guy that has put in decades of activism for women's rights, the environment, encouraging voter turnout/registration, fighting monolithic, monopolistic corporations, supporting LBGT rights, etc., etc. They've earned my respect over the years on a lot of fronts.
At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults.
I'm going to quote an old Public Enemy song: "When I get mad I put it down on pad, and give you something that you never had."
I'm glad that Ed put his rage/dissatisfaction/grievances into the music instead of into his arm. He had some jerk moments (like the awful mosquito bite rant); still does. But I'm thrilled there wasn't a camera pointed at me all through my teens and 20s. I'm sure we all are.
After listening almost exclusive to live recordings for the longest time (like most of us, I suppose), I listened to Vs. recently. That's some excellent, creative musicianship from Stone, Jeff, Mike and Dave. And Ed's voice. I don't care if they were less "trained" in the 90s or irritated Andy Rooney with their angst. The thing about youth is that the problems are smaller (if you're lucky), but it all seems so urgent and huge. That's just the way teens/20-somethings are wired. So where did all the young pissed off artists go? I watched the VMAs, and that music is empty. (The VMAs weren't always that way.) Beyonce (who is 34) was the only one saying anything of substance.
"the mosquito bite rant". what is that one?
At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults. It was probably the wine talking, but it's a pretty misogynistic rant.
The mosquito bite rant never really bothered me just because I understand why he was totally disgusted by that girl's behaviour. She deserved it IMO. Is insulting boobs as opposed to insulting something else automatically misogynistic? I don't think so. She was the one who wouldn't stop flashing her tits at him, which to me means she opened herself up to the insults he hurled.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults.
I'm going to quote an old Public Enemy song: "When I get mad I put it down on pad, and give you something that you never had."
I'm glad that Ed put his rage/dissatisfaction/grievances into the music instead of into his arm. He had some jerk moments (like the awful mosquito bite rant); still does. But I'm thrilled there wasn't a camera pointed at me all through my teens and 20s. I'm sure we all are.
After listening almost exclusive to live recordings for the longest time (like most of us, I suppose), I listened to Vs. recently. That's some excellent, creative musicianship from Stone, Jeff, Mike and Dave. And Ed's voice. I don't care if they were less "trained" in the 90s or irritated Andy Rooney with their angst. The thing about youth is that the problems are smaller (if you're lucky), but it all seems so urgent and huge. That's just the way teens/20-somethings are wired. So where did all the young pissed off artists go? I watched the VMAs, and that music is empty. (The VMAs weren't always that way.) Beyonce (who is 34) was the only one saying anything of substance.
"the mosquito bite rant". what is that one?
At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults. It was probably the wine talking, but it's a pretty misogynistic rant.
The mosquito bite rant never really bothered me just because I understand why he was totally disgusted by that girl's behaviour. She deserved it IMO. Is insulting boobs as opposed to insulting something else automatically misogynistic? I don't think so. She was the one who wouldn't stop flashing her tits at him, which to me means she opened herself up to the insults he hurled.
I think the problem was not saying "Hey put your boobs away, this isn't a Whitesnake show" and instead saying 'she was showing me nothing' along with the mosquito bite comment, which both clumsily implied her breasts were too small and that is a dopey, misogynistic thing to say. I think he realized it as soon as he said it, and changed gears to the 'Girls Gone Wild" thing, but a little too late by then.
I still disagree with the OP. They were all grown men (Ed was what...26? 26 was grown back then.) with years of band experience. They were also charitable. And mosquito bites notwithstanding, Ed had some good onstage Dad moments (be careful, mind your neighbor) even way back then. Their music has always had layers and nuance. Ed's voice had resonance and depth. LB on the other hand is so 1980s throwback at times, it's rookie-ish. (I don't understand anything about music theory; so I can accept being wrong about the music.)
It makes me sad to think he regrets stage diving and climbing the rafters and the other shenanigans that made him a legend. (Maybe what he actually regrets is needing that attention and having the need to please.) The OP can't blame Ed because they tuned out and missed years of good music. Blame the media, because that's where your impression of him came from.
(I too missed a lot of years, and I am kicking myself for it, but I did alright.)
At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults.
I'm going to quote an old Public Enemy song: "When I get mad I put it down on pad, and give you something that you never had."
I'm glad that Ed put his rage/dissatisfaction/grievances into the music instead of into his arm. He had some jerk moments (like the awful mosquito bite rant); still does. But I'm thrilled there wasn't a camera pointed at me all through my teens and 20s. I'm sure we all are.
After listening almost exclusive to live recordings for the longest time (like most of us, I suppose), I listened to Vs. recently. That's some excellent, creative musicianship from Stone, Jeff, Mike and Dave. And Ed's voice. I don't care if they were less "trained" in the 90s or irritated Andy Rooney with their angst. The thing about youth is that the problems are smaller (if you're lucky), but it all seems so urgent and huge. That's just the way teens/20-somethings are wired. So where did all the young pissed off artists go? I watched the VMAs, and that music is empty. (The VMAs weren't always that way.) Beyonce (who is 34) was the only one saying anything of substance.
"the mosquito bite rant". what is that one?
At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults. It was probably the wine talking, but it's a pretty misogynistic rant.
The mosquito bite rant never really bothered me just because I understand why he was totally disgusted by that girl's behaviour. She deserved it IMO. Is insulting boobs as opposed to insulting something else automatically misogynistic? I don't think so. She was the one who wouldn't stop flashing her tits at him, which to me means she opened herself up to the insults he hurled.
I think the problem was not saying "Hey put your boobs away, this isn't a Whitesnake show" and instead saying 'she was showing me nothing' along with the mosquito bite comment, which both clumsily implied her breasts were too small and that is a dopey, misogynistic thing to say. I think he realized it as soon as he said it, and changed gears to the 'Girls Gone Wild" thing, but a little too late by then.
Meh. I hear you, but just because of the target of his comments, I actually think it was funny. I don't expect Eddie to be a Saint. He's clearly not, and he's as willing to hurl insults when he's pissed off as anyone else (maybe more so). I bet few people would say anything if he made a small dick joke about some guy who was acting like an asshole though (in fact, few people did when he was talking about Trump at a recent show and made the small hands/dick joke). He made another small dick joke at the Missoula 2012 show now that I think about it. Anyway, sure he says shit that bothers some people sometimes. Hey, I was just recently complaining that I thought his Bartman joke at Wrigley was a stupid and tasteless thing to say. It happens! And what have we learned? That Eddie Vedder likes big tits and big dicks. I guess. (but no, Eddie's no misogynist of course, as I'm sure you know. He was just trying to hurt the ridiculous girl with his words, which I'm sure he did).
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
While I don't necessarily disagree with the OP on general characterizations, the post comes off as overly judgmental and somewhat pretentious.
It's wonderful to appreciate the growth and maturity of the band, but to belittle the formative years is missing the point that they wouldn't be where they are now if they hadn't been where they were. It's like appreciating mushrooms while, at the same time, discounting the shit they grew on.
Is the band wiser and more mature today than 25 years ago? Of course, but who isn't? The thing about growth and wisdom is it tends to gained the hard way. To raise up one over the other seems counter intuitive.
So I appreciate who they are today and who they were once. While I don't regularly identify with the anger or visceral nature of the early stuff anymore, it is nostalgic as hell.
I feel like I'm coming off pretty defensive and surly (and there were a few things I edited out) and it's really not my intention. I'm glad you like what you like, and you can choose to not like any or all of their catalog, but keep in mind that there is a history, that without, you could not have what followed.
I think I'll go listen to vs now.
"...what a different life had i not found this love with you..."
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KV4053
Mike's side, crushed up against the stage Posts: 1,474
While I don't necessarily disagree with the OP on general characterizations, the post comes off as overly judgmental and somewhat pretentious.
It's wonderful to appreciate the growth and maturity of the band, but to belittle the formative years is missing the point that they wouldn't be where they are now if they hadn't been where they were. It's like appreciating mushrooms while, at the same time, discounting the shit they grew on.
Is the band wiser and more mature today than 25 years ago? Of course, but who isn't? The thing about growth and wisdom is it tends to gained the hard way. To raise up one over the other seems counter intuitive.
So I appreciate who they are today and who they were once. While I don't regularly identify with the anger or visceral nature of the early stuff anymore, it is nostalgic as hell.
I feel like I'm coming off pretty defensive and surly (and there were a few things I edited out) and it's really not my intention. I'm glad you like what you like, and you can choose to not like any or all of their catalog, but keep in mind that there is a history, that without, you could not have what followed.
I think I'll go listen to vs now.
I agree with you.
I know I was born and I know that I'll die. The in between is mine.
Ed booted that guy for being an asshole during Lukin at Wrigley 2. Afterwards, he said the guy kinda reminded him of Bartman, which was a little cheap and unnecessary, but he backtracked pretty quickly and said Bartman was a nice guy, etc.
I was at that Hershey Pa show in '03, it was fantastic. You flop your breasts out at the lead singer, expect to get slammed unless its an 80's glory band. Lets not pretend Vedder hasnt done this before to people/bands. Good Charlotte(MSG?) Big deal.
As for performances, I will absolutely take any PJ performance from lets say '95-'03 any day over present day PJ. Yadda yadda, they may play the songs a little bit better, but there is no substitute for the youthful energy and the way Ed sounded better back then. Shows were 2-2:30 hours, and they let it fly. Better song selections were played(IMO) because the material was more solid.
And so you see, I have come to doubt All that I once held as true I stand alone without beliefs The only truth I know is you.
Kudos for posting a very interesting thread OP. I agree with your opinion that the music and individuals have matured well. However I don't agree with your impression of Eddie as a shithead or asshole in the early days. Or dismissing the band as being just a bunch macho guys who you didn't appreciate "aesthetically". Guess you don't care for long hair, Doc Martens or flannel? Age wise I am close to the same age as the band and in those days I could be a little overly reactive too. I don't know or have never met Eddie but my perception of him was a young, rather shy guy uncomfortable with being thrust into the center spotlight. He loves music, is really happy singing but wasn't thrilled being the one to chat up the audience. When PJ went into those extended jams in the early days I think his adrenaline when he wasn't singing lead him to climb and jump for something to do. Add to that his high intelligence and it may have been hard for him to relate without seeming self rightous or arrogant. Then he's trying to share his thoughts and emotions on a rather deep level and he's getting the "I looovvve yooou Eddieee" due to his physical appearance. And I'm sure the music industry people on all levels tried to push him to take advantage of his looks because it is a business after all and image is so important. That he and the band survived all that bullshit is amazing. As to whether the band's music and shows are some much better now I have to say yes and no. No doubt they are much better musicians...I mean Mr. McCready has just blown me away on this tour....I love alot of the newer songs and the sound, lights and videos are what you'd expect from a massively successful band and lend to the atmosphere. That said I still love the "old" Pearl Jam. The passion and energy was amazing. with fewer songs the extended jams they ripped sent me to another level. I miss that experience. I confess, some days when I feel a low energy level and want a boost I watch the 92 Pinkpop video on Youtube with the climbing and legendary dive. Still love it but do I expect or want him to do it now? NO. They are not the same band and I am not the same person either. And that is really how it should be. Regarding the people who found Eddie's comments to a flashing female fan overly harsh or disrespectful I see it as using humor that is maybe not in the best taste but do you think having a person showing you personal body parts without be desired or asked is being respectful or has good taste? A very drunk guy at a party long ago thought it would be funny to flash his dick at a bunch of us girls. HAHAHA...does it always shrink up like that? Put your little toy away. That solved that problem.
Ed booted that guy for being an asshole during Lukin at Wrigley 2. Afterwards, he said the guy kinda reminded him of Bartman, which was a little cheap and unnecessary, but he backtracked pretty quickly and said Bartman was a nice guy, etc.
Ed booted that guy for being an asshole during Lukin at Wrigley 2. Afterwards, he said the guy kinda reminded him of Bartman, which was a little cheap and unnecessary, but he backtracked pretty quickly and said Bartman was a nice guy, etc.
Steve Bartman?
Yep that Bartman. Sorry.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Kudos for posting a very interesting thread OP. I agree with your opinion that the music and individuals have matured well. However I don't agree with your impression of Eddie as a shithead or asshole in the early days. Or dismissing the band as being just a bunch macho guys who you didn't appreciate "aesthetically". Guess you don't care for long hair, Doc Martens or flannel? Age wise I am close to the same age as the band and in those days I could be a little overly reactive too. I don't know or have never met Eddie but my perception of him was a young, rather shy guy uncomfortable with being thrust into the center spotlight. He loves music, is really happy singing but wasn't thrilled being the one to chat up the audience. When PJ went into those extended jams in the early days I think his adrenaline when he wasn't singing lead him to climb and jump for something to do. Add to that his high intelligence and it may have been hard for him to relate without seeming self rightous or arrogant. Then he's trying to share his thoughts and emotions on a rather deep level and he's getting the "I looovvve yooou Eddieee" due to his physical appearance. And I'm sure the music industry people on all levels tried to push him to take advantage of his looks because it is a business after all and image is so important. That he and the band survived all that bullshit is amazing. As to whether the band's music and shows are some much better now I have to say yes and no. No doubt they are much better musicians...I mean Mr. McCready has just blown me away on this tour....I love alot of the newer songs and the sound, lights and videos are what you'd expect from a massively successful band and lend to the atmosphere. That said I still love the "old" Pearl Jam. The passion and energy was amazing. with fewer songs the extended jams they ripped sent me to another level. I miss that experience. I confess, some days when I feel a low energy level and want a boost I watch the 92 Pinkpop video on Youtube with the climbing and legendary dive. Still love it but do I expect or want him to do it now? NO. They are not the same band and I am not the same person either. And that is really how it should be. Regarding the people who found Eddie's comments to a flashing female fan overly harsh or disrespectful I see it as using humor that is maybe not in the best taste but do you think having a person showing you personal body parts without be desired or asked is being respectful or has good taste? A very drunk guy at a party long ago thought it would be funny to flash his dick at a bunch of us girls. HAHAHA...does it always shrink up like that? Put your little toy away. That solved that problem.
At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults.
I'm going to quote an old Public Enemy song: "When I get mad I put it down on pad, and give you something that you never had."
I'm glad that Ed put his rage/dissatisfaction/grievances into the music instead of into his arm. He had some jerk moments (like the awful mosquito bite rant); still does. But I'm thrilled there wasn't a camera pointed at me all through my teens and 20s. I'm sure we all are.
After listening almost exclusive to live recordings for the longest time (like most of us, I suppose), I listened to Vs. recently. That's some excellent, creative musicianship from Stone, Jeff, Mike and Dave. And Ed's voice. I don't care if they were less "trained" in the 90s or irritated Andy Rooney with their angst. The thing about youth is that the problems are smaller (if you're lucky), but it all seems so urgent and huge. That's just the way teens/20-somethings are wired. So where did all the young pissed off artists go? I watched the VMAs, and that music is empty. (The VMAs weren't always that way.) Beyonce (who is 34) was the only one saying anything of substance.
"the mosquito bite rant". what is that one?
At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults. It was probably the wine talking, but it's a pretty misogynistic rant.
The mosquito bite rant never really bothered me just because I understand why he was totally disgusted by that girl's behaviour. She deserved it IMO. Is insulting boobs as opposed to insulting something else automatically misogynistic? I don't think so. She was the one who wouldn't stop flashing her tits at him, which to me means she opened herself up to the insults he hurled.
The mosquito bite thing is definitely my least-favorite Ed moment. She may have deserved derision, but Ed made the size as much of the issue as the act. And that should not have been the point...everything else (respect yourself, etc.) should have been. But he would have given at least somewhat of a pass to a large-breasted woman.
We had tons of arguments about it on one of the old iterations of the board. The notion that "I hate the girls gone wild shit" was right on the money. But to take a shot at the size absolutely invalidated it and implied that maybe it would have been OK (or at least less not-OK) if she'd had something bigger to show. I was ripped to shreds for my take on that. But I still feel that way. He not only invalidated (what I am sure he believes) the statement that "girls gone wild shit" is always bad. But he did it like a meathead.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
I was at that Hershey Pa show in '03, it was fantastic. You flop your breasts out at the lead singer, expect to get slammed unless its an 80's glory band. Lets not pretend Vedder hasnt done this before to people/bands. Good Charlotte(MSG?) Big deal.
As for performances, I will absolutely take any PJ performance from lets say '95-'03 any day over present day PJ. Yadda yadda, they may play the songs a little bit better, but there is no substitute for the youthful energy and the way Ed sounded better back then. Shows were 2-2:30 hours, and they let it fly. Better song selections were played(IMO) because the material was more solid.
In fairness, as time goes no, they're likely to be viewed as having declining song selection because they are going to have to skip a ton of material...though given the number of covers at Fenway/Wrigley, maybe I am with you.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
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KV4053
Mike's side, crushed up against the stage Posts: 1,474
At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults.
I'm going to quote an old Public Enemy song: "When I get mad I put it down on pad, and give you something that you never had."
I'm glad that Ed put his rage/dissatisfaction/grievances into the music instead of into his arm. He had some jerk moments (like the awful mosquito bite rant); still does. But I'm thrilled there wasn't a camera pointed at me all through my teens and 20s. I'm sure we all are.
After listening almost exclusive to live recordings for the longest time (like most of us, I suppose), I listened to Vs. recently. That's some excellent, creative musicianship from Stone, Jeff, Mike and Dave. And Ed's voice. I don't care if they were less "trained" in the 90s or irritated Andy Rooney with their angst. The thing about youth is that the problems are smaller (if you're lucky), but it all seems so urgent and huge. That's just the way teens/20-somethings are wired. So where did all the young pissed off artists go? I watched the VMAs, and that music is empty. (The VMAs weren't always that way.) Beyonce (who is 34) was the only one saying anything of substance.
"the mosquito bite rant". what is that one?
At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults. It was probably the wine talking, but it's a pretty misogynistic rant.
The mosquito bite rant never really bothered me just because I understand why he was totally disgusted by that girl's behaviour. She deserved it IMO. Is insulting boobs as opposed to insulting something else automatically misogynistic? I don't think so. She was the one who wouldn't stop flashing her tits at him, which to me means she opened herself up to the insults he hurled.
The mosquito bite thing is definitely my least-favorite Ed moment. She may have deserved derision, but Ed made the size as much of the issue as the act. And that should not have been the point...everything else (respect yourself, etc.) should have been. But he would have given at least somewhat of a pass to a large-breasted woman.
We had tons of arguments about it on one of the old iterations of the board. The notion that "I hate the girls gone wild shit" was right on the money. But to take a shot at the size absolutely invalidated it and implied that maybe it would have been OK (or at least less not-OK) if she'd had something bigger to show. I was ripped to shreds for my take on that. But I still feel that way. He not only invalidated (what I am sure he believes) the statement that "girls gone wild shit" is always bad. But he did it like a meathead.
I always took the mosquito bite comment to be an indirect reference to her age (ie she was young)
I know I was born and I know that I'll die. The in between is mine.
green_girl that's SUCH an interesting point. There is self-pity in some songs but I'm not sure I can identify anything in the music or person that I've been aware of that suggests self-loathing. Amazing. I see how destructive and difficult to escape self-loathing can be every day. How he avoided it with his history I'll never know, but it's impressive.
And by the way, I never meant that he WAS an asshole in the early days; only that I perceived him as one, based on tv appearances, etc. My bad, obviously; but he didn't make it a hard conclusion to draw, at least if you only had that level of exposure to him (no live PJ shows for me back then).
At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults.
I'm going to quote an old Public Enemy song: "When I get mad I put it down on pad, and give you something that you never had."
I'm glad that Ed put his rage/dissatisfaction/grievances into the music instead of into his arm. He had some jerk moments (like the awful mosquito bite rant); still does. But I'm thrilled there wasn't a camera pointed at me all through my teens and 20s. I'm sure we all are.
After listening almost exclusive to live recordings for the longest time (like most of us, I suppose), I listened to Vs. recently. That's some excellent, creative musicianship from Stone, Jeff, Mike and Dave. And Ed's voice. I don't care if they were less "trained" in the 90s or irritated Andy Rooney with their angst. The thing about youth is that the problems are smaller (if you're lucky), but it all seems so urgent and huge. That's just the way teens/20-somethings are wired. So where did all the young pissed off artists go? I watched the VMAs, and that music is empty. (The VMAs weren't always that way.) Beyonce (who is 34) was the only one saying anything of substance.
"the mosquito bite rant". what is that one?
At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults. It was probably the wine talking, but it's a pretty misogynistic rant.
The mosquito bite rant never really bothered me just because I understand why he was totally disgusted by that girl's behaviour. She deserved it IMO. Is insulting boobs as opposed to insulting something else automatically misogynistic? I don't think so. She was the one who wouldn't stop flashing her tits at him, which to me means she opened herself up to the insults he hurled.
The mosquito bite thing is definitely my least-favorite Ed moment. She may have deserved derision, but Ed made the size as much of the issue as the act. And that should not have been the point...everything else (respect yourself, etc.) should have been. But he would have given at least somewhat of a pass to a large-breasted woman.
We had tons of arguments about it on one of the old iterations of the board. The notion that "I hate the girls gone wild shit" was right on the money. But to take a shot at the size absolutely invalidated it and implied that maybe it would have been OK (or at least less not-OK) if she'd had something bigger to show. I was ripped to shreds for my take on that. But I still feel that way. He not only invalidated (what I am sure he believes) the statement that "girls gone wild shit" is always bad. But he did it like a meathead.
Yeah, 1000% agree. And I think that's what the OP might've been getting at. I don't know what the context of the Gleason interview was mentioned in the first post, or what behavior EV specifically regretted, but If there was ever an element of distasteful bro-wave shit that popped up, I certainly don't see it now.
At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults.
I'm going to quote an old Public Enemy song: "When I get mad I put it down on pad, and give you something that you never had."
I'm glad that Ed put his rage/dissatisfaction/grievances into the music instead of into his arm. He had some jerk moments (like the awful mosquito bite rant); still does. But I'm thrilled there wasn't a camera pointed at me all through my teens and 20s. I'm sure we all are.
After listening almost exclusive to live recordings for the longest time (like most of us, I suppose), I listened to Vs. recently. That's some excellent, creative musicianship from Stone, Jeff, Mike and Dave. And Ed's voice. I don't care if they were less "trained" in the 90s or irritated Andy Rooney with their angst. The thing about youth is that the problems are smaller (if you're lucky), but it all seems so urgent and huge. That's just the way teens/20-somethings are wired. So where did all the young pissed off artists go? I watched the VMAs, and that music is empty. (The VMAs weren't always that way.) Beyonce (who is 34) was the only one saying anything of substance.
"the mosquito bite rant". what is that one?
At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults. It was probably the wine talking, but it's a pretty misogynistic rant.
The mosquito bite rant never really bothered me just because I understand why he was totally disgusted by that girl's behaviour. She deserved it IMO. Is insulting boobs as opposed to insulting something else automatically misogynistic? I don't think so. She was the one who wouldn't stop flashing her tits at him, which to me means she opened herself up to the insults he hurled.
The mosquito bite thing is definitely my least-favorite Ed moment. She may have deserved derision, but Ed made the size as much of the issue as the act. And that should not have been the point...everything else (respect yourself, etc.) should have been. But he would have given at least somewhat of a pass to a large-breasted woman.
We had tons of arguments about it on one of the old iterations of the board. The notion that "I hate the girls gone wild shit" was right on the money. But to take a shot at the size absolutely invalidated it and implied that maybe it would have been OK (or at least less not-OK) if she'd had something bigger to show. I was ripped to shreds for my take on that. But I still feel that way. He not only invalidated (what I am sure he believes) the statement that "girls gone wild shit" is always bad. But he did it like a meathead.
I don't think he would have given somewhat of a pass to a large breasted woman at all. He just would have altered the insults. I don't really think the size of her breasts actually had anything to do with why he said what he said as far as his perceptions about breasts go (the reason I think this is because he seems to find small breasted women attractive). It was just the easiest way to insult her. Anyway, sure, ideally he wouldn't have insulted the size of her boobs... but Eddie is an emotional guy. He just lets crap come out of his mouth on a fairly regular basis, so him saying stuff like this during that time just doesn't surprise me at all. I never thought of Eddie as being "above" rude comments.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
It's really interesting to compare the "mosquito bite" thing and people's reactions to it to something that happened a couple of months ago in Toronto. Ed described an encounter with a blatantly racist cab driver who mouthed off during his ride, while his daughters were present. He went on to say that he won't mind when people like that die. All sorts of people on the internet posted about what an awful thing that was for Ed to say. I vigorously defended him. I see nothing wrong with what he said. He's a passionate man with a fierce sense of social justice. Nothing wrong with expressing your feelings with a sharp edge. (Except apparently on this board, where you'll be called judgmental and pretentious.) To me there's a world of difference between that comment and what he says in the "mosquito bite" video (especially at the very end, which is the only part I find wholly indefensible).
I am not bashing Ed. I am admiring him for doing a phenomenal job at something that is a huge part of my life: helping people find ways to overcome themselves and their often horrid pasts.
This whole thread stems from how blown away I am by this man's journey. I can't admire the progress without making a comparison between where he was at the beginning and where he came to at the end. I am not judging. I'm expressing regret-- because he probably WAS a deeply kind and caring person even then, but I missed those years (the live shows anyway) because I drew hasty conclusions. So please don't bash me as an Ed-basher. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I think what it boils down to is that Eddie is like the rest of us, but everything he says is dissected and discussed and judged waaaaaaaaaaay to vigorously. I'm going to guess that pretty much all of us say shit that is facetious or an exaggeration or off-side on a regular basis, but when poor Eddie does it he is put under this horrible microscope and people take it way too seriously and they apply these types of comments to his overall personality or thought process. It really isn't fair that any of us do this.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I think what it boils down to is that Eddie is like the rest of us, but everything he says is dissected and discussed and judged waaaaaaaaaaay to vigorously. I'm going to guess that pretty much all of us say shit that is facetious or an exaggeration or off-side on a regular basis, but when poor Eddie does it he is put under this horrible microscope and people take it way too seriously and they apply these types of comments to his overall personality or thought process. It really isn't fair that any of us do this.
no kidding. my sister had to email me an apology as she said something in an email the other day after a bottle of wine that she meant jokingly but she realized later on that it could have been taken as an insult.
imagine doing that in front of 15,000 people live, how many on periscope, and how many will listen to the bootleg of it for years to come.god I can't imagine that type of shit.
Comments
Though it seems times haven't changed, too much.
I hadn't seen or heard that one before. Beyond cringe-worthy.
That bro-wave shit is pretty reprehensible, and I'd be embarrassed if I were EV on that one, but I do think it's a pretty far outlier (unless I'm being naive). I don't believe that drunk dude is the band or the guy that has put in decades of activism for women's rights, the environment, encouraging voter turnout/registration, fighting monolithic, monopolistic corporations, supporting LBGT rights, etc., etc. They've earned my respect over the years on a lot of fronts.
In summary: OP was pretty dead-on.
It makes me sad to think he regrets stage diving and climbing the rafters and the other shenanigans that made him a legend. (Maybe what he actually regrets is needing that attention and having the need to please.) The OP can't blame Ed because they tuned out and missed years of good music. Blame the media, because that's where your impression of him came from.
(I too missed a lot of years, and I am kicking myself for it, but I did alright.)
It's wonderful to appreciate the growth and maturity of the band, but to belittle the formative years is missing the point that they wouldn't be where they are now if they hadn't been where they were. It's like appreciating mushrooms while, at the same time, discounting the shit they grew on.
Is the band wiser and more mature today than 25 years ago? Of course, but who isn't? The thing about growth and wisdom is it tends to gained the hard way. To raise up one over the other seems counter intuitive.
So I appreciate who they are today and who they were once. While I don't regularly identify with the anger or visceral nature of the early stuff anymore, it is nostalgic as hell.
I feel like I'm coming off pretty defensive and surly (and there were a few things I edited out) and it's really not my intention. I'm glad you like what you like, and you can choose to not like any or all of their catalog, but keep in mind that there is a history, that without, you could not have what followed.
I think I'll go listen to vs now.
www.headstonesband.com
As for performances, I will absolutely take any PJ performance from lets say '95-'03 any day over present day PJ. Yadda yadda, they may play the songs a little bit better, but there is no substitute for the youthful energy and the way Ed sounded better back then. Shows were 2-2:30 hours, and they let it fly. Better song selections were played(IMO) because the material was more solid.
All that I once held as true
I stand alone without beliefs
The only truth I know is you.
As to whether the band's music and shows are some much better now I have to say yes and no. No doubt they are much better musicians...I mean Mr. McCready has just blown me away on this tour....I love alot of the newer songs and the sound, lights and videos are what you'd expect from a massively successful band and lend to the atmosphere. That said I still love the "old" Pearl Jam. The passion and energy was amazing. with fewer songs the extended jams they ripped sent me to another level. I miss that experience. I confess, some days when I feel a low energy level and want a boost I watch the 92 Pinkpop video on Youtube with the climbing and legendary dive. Still love it but do I expect or want him to do it now? NO. They are not the same band and I am not the same person either. And that is really how it should be.
Regarding the people who found Eddie's comments to a flashing female fan overly harsh or disrespectful I see it as using humor that is maybe not in the best taste but do you think having a person showing you personal body parts without be desired or asked is being respectful or has good taste? A very drunk guy at a party long ago thought it would be funny to flash his dick at a bunch of us girls. HAHAHA...does it always shrink up like that? Put your little toy away. That solved that problem.
www.headstonesband.com
We had tons of arguments about it on one of the old iterations of the board. The notion that "I hate the girls gone wild shit" was right on the money. But to take a shot at the size absolutely invalidated it and implied that maybe it would have been OK (or at least less not-OK) if she'd had something bigger to show. I was ripped to shreds for my take on that. But I still feel that way. He not only invalidated (what I am sure he believes) the statement that "girls gone wild shit" is always bad. But he did it like a meathead.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
And by the way, I never meant that he WAS an asshole in the early days; only that I perceived him as one, based on tv appearances, etc. My bad, obviously; but he didn't make it a hard conclusion to draw, at least if you only had that level of exposure to him (no live PJ shows for me back then).
I am not bashing Ed. I am admiring him for doing a phenomenal job at something that is a huge part of my life: helping people find ways to overcome themselves and their often horrid pasts.
This whole thread stems from how blown away I am by this man's journey. I can't admire the progress without making a comparison between where he was at the beginning and where he came to at the end. I am not judging. I'm expressing regret-- because he probably WAS a deeply kind and caring person even then, but I missed those years (the live shows anyway) because I drew hasty conclusions. So please don't bash me as an Ed-basher. Nothing could be further from the truth.
imagine doing that in front of 15,000 people live, how many on periscope, and how many will listen to the bootleg of it for years to come.god I can't imagine that type of shit.
www.headstonesband.com