Does anybody agree with me and Ed on this?

hedonist

camsjam said:

Kudos for posting a very interesting thread OP. I agree with your opinion that the music and individuals have matured well. However I don't agree with your impression of Eddie as a shithead or asshole in the early days. Or dismissing the band as being just a bunch macho guys who you didn't appreciate "aesthetically". Guess you don't care for long hair, Doc Martens or flannel? Age wise I am close to the same age as the band and in those days I could be a little overly reactive too. I don't know or have never met Eddie but my perception of him was a young, rather shy guy uncomfortable with being thrust into the center spotlight. He loves music, is really happy singing but wasn't thrilled being the one to chat up the audience. When PJ went into those extended jams in the early days I think his adrenaline when he wasn't singing lead him to climb and jump for something to do. Add to that his high intelligence and it may have been hard for him to relate without seeming self rightous or arrogant. Then he's trying to share his thoughts and emotions on a rather deep level and he's getting the "I looovvve yooou Eddieee" due to his physical appearance. And I'm sure the music industry people on all levels tried to push him to take advantage of his looks because it is a business after all and image is so important. That he and the band survived all that bullshit is amazing.
As to whether the band's music and shows are some much better now I have to say yes and no. No doubt they are much better musicians...I mean Mr. McCready has just blown me away on this tour....I love alot of the newer songs and the sound, lights and videos are what you'd expect from a massively successful band and lend to the atmosphere. That said I still love the "old" Pearl Jam. The passion and energy was amazing. with fewer songs the extended jams they ripped sent me to another level. I miss that experience. I confess, some days when I feel a low energy level and want a boost I watch the 92 Pinkpop video on Youtube with the climbing and legendary dive. Still love it but do I expect or want him to do it now? NO. They are not the same band and I am not the same person either. And that is really how it should be.
Regarding the people who found Eddie's comments to a flashing female fan overly harsh or disrespectful I see it as using humor that is maybe not in the best taste but do you think having a person showing you personal body parts without be desired or asked is being respectful or has good taste? A very drunk guy at a party long ago thought it would be funny to flash his dick at a bunch of us girls. HAHAHA...does it always shrink up like that? Put your little toy away. That solved that problem.

And kudos to you. Great post!

OnWis97

PJ_Soul said:

green_girl said:

At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults.

HughFreakingDillon said:

green_girl said:

I'm going to quote an old Public Enemy song: "When I get mad I put it down on pad, and give you something that you never had."

I'm glad that Ed put his rage/dissatisfaction/grievances into the music instead of into his arm. He had some jerk moments (like the awful mosquito bite rant); still does. But I'm thrilled there wasn't a camera pointed at me all through my teens and 20s. I'm sure we all are.

After listening almost exclusive to live recordings for the longest time (like most of us, I suppose), I listened to Vs. recently. That's some excellent, creative musicianship from Stone, Jeff, Mike and Dave. And Ed's voice. I don't care if they were less "trained" in the 90s or irritated Andy Rooney with their angst. The thing about youth is that the problems are smaller (if you're lucky), but it all seems so urgent and huge. That's just the way teens/20-somethings are wired. So where did all the young pissed off artists go? I watched the VMAs, and that music is empty. (The VMAs weren't always that way.) Beyonce (who is 34) was the only one saying anything of substance.

"the mosquito bite rant". what is that one?

At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults. It was probably the wine talking, but it's a pretty misogynistic rant.

The mosquito bite rant never really bothered me just because I understand why he was totally disgusted by that girl's behaviour. She deserved it IMO. Is insulting boobs as opposed to insulting something else automatically misogynistic? I don't think so. She was the one who wouldn't stop flashing her tits at him, which to me means she opened herself up to the insults he hurled.

The mosquito bite thing is definitely my least-favorite Ed moment. She may have deserved derision, but Ed made the size as much of the issue as the act. And that should not have been the point...everything else (respect yourself, etc.) should have been. But he would have given at least somewhat of a pass to a large-breasted woman.

We had tons of arguments about it on one of the old iterations of the board. The notion that "I hate the girls gone wild shit" was right on the money. But to take a shot at the size absolutely invalidated it and implied that maybe it would have been OK (or at least less not-OK) if she'd had something bigger to show. I was ripped to shreds for my take on that. But I still feel that way. He not only invalidated (what I am sure he believes) the statement that "girls gone wild shit" is always bad. But he did it like a meathead.

OnWis97

Dr. Delight said:

I was at that Hershey Pa show in '03, it was fantastic. You flop your breasts out at the lead singer, expect to get slammed unless its an 80's glory band. Lets not pretend Vedder hasnt done this before to people/bands. Good Charlotte(MSG?) Big deal.

As for performances, I will absolutely take any PJ performance from lets say '95-'03 any day over present day PJ. Yadda yadda, they may play the songs a little bit better, but there is no substitute for the youthful energy and the way Ed sounded better back then. Shows were 2-2:30 hours, and they let it fly. Better song selections were played(IMO) because the material was more solid.

In fairness, as time goes no, they're likely to be viewed as having declining song selection because they are going to have to skip a ton of material...though given the number of covers at Fenway/Wrigley, maybe I am with you.

KV4053

OnWis97 said:

PJ_Soul said:

green_girl said:

At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults.

HughFreakingDillon said:

green_girl said:

I'm going to quote an old Public Enemy song: "When I get mad I put it down on pad, and give you something that you never had."

I'm glad that Ed put his rage/dissatisfaction/grievances into the music instead of into his arm. He had some jerk moments (like the awful mosquito bite rant); still does. But I'm thrilled there wasn't a camera pointed at me all through my teens and 20s. I'm sure we all are.

After listening almost exclusive to live recordings for the longest time (like most of us, I suppose), I listened to Vs. recently. That's some excellent, creative musicianship from Stone, Jeff, Mike and Dave. And Ed's voice. I don't care if they were less "trained" in the 90s or irritated Andy Rooney with their angst. The thing about youth is that the problems are smaller (if you're lucky), but it all seems so urgent and huge. That's just the way teens/20-somethings are wired. So where did all the young pissed off artists go? I watched the VMAs, and that music is empty. (The VMAs weren't always that way.) Beyonce (who is 34) was the only one saying anything of substance.

"the mosquito bite rant". what is that one?

At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults. It was probably the wine talking, but it's a pretty misogynistic rant.

The mosquito bite rant never really bothered me just because I understand why he was totally disgusted by that girl's behaviour. She deserved it IMO. Is insulting boobs as opposed to insulting something else automatically misogynistic? I don't think so. She was the one who wouldn't stop flashing her tits at him, which to me means she opened herself up to the insults he hurled.

The mosquito bite thing is definitely my least-favorite Ed moment. She may have deserved derision, but Ed made the size as much of the issue as the act. And that should not have been the point...everything else (respect yourself, etc.) should have been. But he would have given at least somewhat of a pass to a large-breasted woman.

We had tons of arguments about it on one of the old iterations of the board. The notion that "I hate the girls gone wild shit" was right on the money. But to take a shot at the size absolutely invalidated it and implied that maybe it would have been OK (or at least less not-OK) if she'd had something bigger to show. I was ripped to shreds for my take on that. But I still feel that way. He not only invalidated (what I am sure he believes) the statement that "girls gone wild shit" is always bad. But he did it like a meathead.

I always took the mosquito bite comment to be an indirect reference to her age (ie she was young)

ladydocNYC

green_girl said:

Ed was angry at the world, not self-loathing.

green_girl that's SUCH an interesting point. There is self-pity in some songs but I'm not sure I can identify anything in the music or person that I've been aware of that suggests self-loathing. Amazing. I see how destructive and difficult to escape self-loathing can be every day. How he avoided it with his history I'll never know, but it's impressive.

And by the way, I never meant that he WAS an asshole in the early days; only that I perceived him as one, based on tv appearances, etc. My bad, obviously; but he didn't make it a hard conclusion to draw, at least if you only had that level of exposure to him (no live PJ shows for me back then).

killmoretrout

OnWis97 said:

PJ_Soul said:

green_girl said:

At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults.

HughFreakingDillon said:

green_girl said:

I'm going to quote an old Public Enemy song: "When I get mad I put it down on pad, and give you something that you never had."

I'm glad that Ed put his rage/dissatisfaction/grievances into the music instead of into his arm. He had some jerk moments (like the awful mosquito bite rant); still does. But I'm thrilled there wasn't a camera pointed at me all through my teens and 20s. I'm sure we all are.

After listening almost exclusive to live recordings for the longest time (like most of us, I suppose), I listened to Vs. recently. That's some excellent, creative musicianship from Stone, Jeff, Mike and Dave. And Ed's voice. I don't care if they were less "trained" in the 90s or irritated Andy Rooney with their angst. The thing about youth is that the problems are smaller (if you're lucky), but it all seems so urgent and huge. That's just the way teens/20-somethings are wired. So where did all the young pissed off artists go? I watched the VMAs, and that music is empty. (The VMAs weren't always that way.) Beyonce (who is 34) was the only one saying anything of substance.

"the mosquito bite rant". what is that one?

At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults. It was probably the wine talking, but it's a pretty misogynistic rant.

The mosquito bite rant never really bothered me just because I understand why he was totally disgusted by that girl's behaviour. She deserved it IMO. Is insulting boobs as opposed to insulting something else automatically misogynistic? I don't think so. She was the one who wouldn't stop flashing her tits at him, which to me means she opened herself up to the insults he hurled.

The mosquito bite thing is definitely my least-favorite Ed moment. She may have deserved derision, but Ed made the size as much of the issue as the act. And that should not have been the point...everything else (respect yourself, etc.) should have been. But he would have given at least somewhat of a pass to a large-breasted woman.

We had tons of arguments about it on one of the old iterations of the board. The notion that "I hate the girls gone wild shit" was right on the money. But to take a shot at the size absolutely invalidated it and implied that maybe it would have been OK (or at least less not-OK) if she'd had something bigger to show. I was ripped to shreds for my take on that. But I still feel that way. He not only invalidated (what I am sure he believes) the statement that "girls gone wild shit" is always bad. But he did it like a meathead.

Yeah, 1000% agree. And I think that's what the OP might've been getting at. I don't know what the context of the Gleason interview was mentioned in the first post, or what behavior EV specifically regretted, but If there was ever an element of distasteful bro-wave shit that popped up, I certainly don't see it now.

PJ_Soul

OnWis97 said:

PJ_Soul said:

green_girl said:

At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults.

HughFreakingDillon said:

green_girl said:

I'm going to quote an old Public Enemy song: "When I get mad I put it down on pad, and give you something that you never had."

I'm glad that Ed put his rage/dissatisfaction/grievances into the music instead of into his arm. He had some jerk moments (like the awful mosquito bite rant); still does. But I'm thrilled there wasn't a camera pointed at me all through my teens and 20s. I'm sure we all are.

After listening almost exclusive to live recordings for the longest time (like most of us, I suppose), I listened to Vs. recently. That's some excellent, creative musicianship from Stone, Jeff, Mike and Dave. And Ed's voice. I don't care if they were less "trained" in the 90s or irritated Andy Rooney with their angst. The thing about youth is that the problems are smaller (if you're lucky), but it all seems so urgent and huge. That's just the way teens/20-somethings are wired. So where did all the young pissed off artists go? I watched the VMAs, and that music is empty. (The VMAs weren't always that way.) Beyonce (who is 34) was the only one saying anything of substance.

"the mosquito bite rant". what is that one?

At a 2003 show he went off on a young woman in the front who kept pulling her top up. He went from insulting her "mosquito bites" to a teachable respect yourself moment to worse insults. It was probably the wine talking, but it's a pretty misogynistic rant.

The mosquito bite rant never really bothered me just because I understand why he was totally disgusted by that girl's behaviour. She deserved it IMO. Is insulting boobs as opposed to insulting something else automatically misogynistic? I don't think so. She was the one who wouldn't stop flashing her tits at him, which to me means she opened herself up to the insults he hurled.

The mosquito bite thing is definitely my least-favorite Ed moment. She may have deserved derision, but Ed made the size as much of the issue as the act. And that should not have been the point...everything else (respect yourself, etc.) should have been. But he would have given at least somewhat of a pass to a large-breasted woman.

We had tons of arguments about it on one of the old iterations of the board. The notion that "I hate the girls gone wild shit" was right on the money. But to take a shot at the size absolutely invalidated it and implied that maybe it would have been OK (or at least less not-OK) if she'd had something bigger to show. I was ripped to shreds for my take on that. But I still feel that way. He not only invalidated (what I am sure he believes) the statement that "girls gone wild shit" is always bad. But he did it like a meathead.

I don't think he would have given somewhat of a pass to a large breasted woman at all. He just would have altered the insults. I don't really think the size of her breasts actually had anything to do with why he said what he said as far as his perceptions about breasts go (the reason I think this is because he seems to find small breasted women attractive). It was just the easiest way to insult her. Anyway, sure, ideally he wouldn't have insulted the size of her boobs... but Eddie is an emotional guy. He just lets crap come out of his mouth on a fairly regular basis, so him saying stuff like this during that time just doesn't surprise me at all. I never thought of Eddie as being "above" rude comments.

ladydocNYC

It's really interesting to compare the "mosquito bite" thing and people's reactions to it to something that happened a couple of months ago in Toronto. Ed described an encounter with a blatantly racist cab driver who mouthed off during his ride, while his daughters were present. He went on to say that he won't mind when people like that die. All sorts of people on the internet posted about what an awful thing that was for Ed to say. I vigorously defended him. I see nothing wrong with what he said. He's a passionate man with a fierce sense of social justice. Nothing wrong with expressing your feelings with a sharp edge. (Except apparently on this board, where you'll be called judgmental and pretentious.) To me there's a world of difference between that comment and what he says in the "mosquito bite" video (especially at the very end, which is the only part I find wholly indefensible).

I am not bashing Ed. I am admiring him for doing a phenomenal job at something that is a huge part of my life: helping people find ways to overcome themselves and their often horrid pasts.

This whole thread stems from how blown away I am by this man's journey. I can't admire the progress without making a comparison between where he was at the beginning and where he came to at the end. I am not judging. I'm expressing regret-- because he probably WAS a deeply kind and caring person even then, but I missed those years (the live shows anyway) because I drew hasty conclusions. So please don't bash me as an Ed-basher. Nothing could be further from the truth.

PJ_Soul

I think what it boils down to is that Eddie is like the rest of us, but everything he says is dissected and discussed and judged waaaaaaaaaaay to vigorously. I'm going to guess that pretty much all of us say shit that is facetious or an exaggeration or off-side on a regular basis, but when poor Eddie does it he is put under this horrible microscope and people take it way too seriously and they apply these types of comments to his overall personality or thought process. It really isn't fair that any of us do this.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

I think what it boils down to is that Eddie is like the rest of us, but everything he says is dissected and discussed and judged waaaaaaaaaaay to vigorously. I'm going to guess that pretty much all of us say shit that is facetious or an exaggeration or off-side on a regular basis, but when poor Eddie does it he is put under this horrible microscope and people take it way too seriously and they apply these types of comments to his overall personality or thought process. It really isn't fair that any of us do this.

no kidding. my sister had to email me an apology as she said something in an email the other day after a bottle of wine that she meant jokingly but she realized later on that it could have been taken as an insult.

imagine doing that in front of 15,000 people live, how many on periscope, and how many will listen to the bootleg of it for years to come.god I can't imagine that type of shit.

green_girl

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

I think what it boils down to is that Eddie is like the rest of us, but everything he says is dissected and discussed and judged waaaaaaaaaaay to vigorously. I'm going to guess that pretty much all of us say shit that is facetious or an exaggeration or off-side on a regular basis, but when poor Eddie does it he is put under this horrible microscope and people take it way too seriously and they apply these types of comments to his overall personality or thought process. It really isn't fair that any of us do this.

no kidding. my sister had to email me an apology as she said something in an email the other day after a bottle of wine that she meant jokingly but she realized later on that it could have been taken as an insult.

imagine doing that in front of 15,000 people live, how many on periscope, and how many will listen to the bootleg of it for years to come.god I can't imagine that type of shit.

Absolutely. And thank goodness that hasn't deterred him from bantering (and even ranting) on stage.

KV4053

ladydocNYC said:

It's really interesting to compare the "mosquito bite" thing and people's reactions to it to something that happened a couple of months ago in Toronto. Ed described an encounter with a blatantly racist cab driver who mouthed off during his ride, while his daughters were present. He went on to say that he won't mind when people like that die. All sorts of people on the internet posted about what an awful thing that was for Ed to say. I vigorously defended him. I see nothing wrong with what he said. He's a passionate man with a fierce sense of social justice. Nothing wrong with expressing your feelings with a sharp edge. (Except apparently on this board, where you'll be called judgmental and pretentious.) To me there's a world of difference between that comment and what he says in the "mosquito bite" video (especially at the very end, which is the only part I find wholly indefensible).

I am not bashing Ed. I am admiring him for doing a phenomenal job at something that is a huge part of my life: helping people find ways to overcome themselves and their often horrid pasts.

This whole thread stems from how blown away I am by this man's journey. I can't admire the progress without making a comparison between where he was at the beginning and where he came to at the end. I am not judging. I'm expressing regret-- because he probably WAS a deeply kind and caring person even then, but I missed those years (the live shows anyway) because I drew hasty conclusions. So please don't bash me as an Ed-basher. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I think part of the (very little) backlash you received is due, in part, to mentioning your profession and then proceeding to analyze a celebrity based solely on media exposure (I'm assuming he's not your patient). Why mention your profession?

I could be wrong (I often am).

RoleModelsinBlood31

green_girl said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

I think what it boils down to is that Eddie is like the rest of us, but everything he says is dissected and discussed and judged waaaaaaaaaaay to vigorously. I'm going to guess that pretty much all of us say shit that is facetious or an exaggeration or off-side on a regular basis, but when poor Eddie does it he is put under this horrible microscope and people take it way too seriously and they apply these types of comments to his overall personality or thought process. It really isn't fair that any of us do this.

no kidding. my sister had to email me an apology as she said something in an email the other day after a bottle of wine that she meant jokingly but she realized later on that it could have been taken as an insult.

imagine doing that in front of 15,000 people live, how many on periscope, and how many will listen to the bootleg of it for years to come.god I can't imagine that type of shit.

Absolutely. And thank goodness that hasn't deterred him from bantering (and even ranting) on stage.

When he does I go get a beer. I'm old enough to know I don't go to a concert to learn how I should vote.

ladydocNYC

KV4053 said:

I think part of the (very little) backlash you received is due, in part, to mentioning your profession and then proceeding to analyze a celebrity based solely on media exposure (I'm assuming he's not your patient). Why mention your profession? .

Good point. Thanks for saying it, and saying it nicely.

I thought mentioning my profession would give context to where I was coming from and help clarify what I was saying. I guess I also thought it might make what I was saying more interesting to some people. I claim NO special insight into Ed's mind but I do fancy that I have a bit of insight, by virtue of my profession, into the process of overcoming internal struggles. Ed's always been open about his internal struggle to come to terms with some parts of his personal history.

But you're right, it would have been better not to mention it. This isn't the right place for that.

slightofjeff

Dr. Delight said:

I was at that Hershey Pa show in '03, it was fantastic. You flop your breasts out at the lead singer, expect to get slammed unless its an 80's glory band. Lets not pretend Vedder hasnt done this before to people/bands. Good Charlotte(MSG?) Big deal.

As for performances, I will absolutely take any PJ performance from lets say '95-'03 any day over present day PJ. Yadda yadda, they may play the songs a little bit better, but there is no substitute for the youthful energy and the way Ed sounded better back then. Shows were 2-2:30 hours, and they let it fly. Better song selections were played(IMO) because the material was more solid.

The "youthful energy" was pretty much gone by 1995, and purposefully so. Ed was standing stock still at the mic and barely moving from a 3-foot radius around it. Stone looked practically comatose. IMO, there was a lot more "energy" at a show in say 2006 than in 1995.

The show I saw on the '95 tour is one of my favorites because it was my first, and because it was during the era when the band was the biggest one on earth. But in terms of pure performance ... I've seen maybe 20 better shows since then.

JH6056

My first post on this, and really OP, to me it all depends on WHAT Ed is saying he now regrets. What aspect of his behavior? What does he want a re-do on?

To me, the only thing he might want to re-do or regret is some of the ways they handled personnel decisions (and that is just a guess from reading PJ books and hearing mostly about Dave A's departure and how that went down). But his live show presence? His attitude/suspicion of fame? Seeming avoidance of commercial success?

In some ways, especially after Kurt died, those were healthy concerns, or at least totally understandable ones.

Until you've been minding your own business and someone recognizes you and starts a stampede of people screaming your name, I don't think anyone here can really judge what is "regretful" about how PJ - even when they didn't agree internally - handled fame and the explosion of success they experienced.

So I don't know if I agree with Ed or not, because I haven't seen the film yet and I don't know if he goes into detail about what he regrets. He may be being unduly hard on himself with that 20/20 rear view mirror vision. Or... he may legit be thinking back on maybe some decisions or behaviors we don't even know about that he does know and regrets. Who knows... But I DO know that what I know of his behaviors and what he was reacting to, I have nothing but respect for the most part. I don't know how he did it, and I don't know how the whole band got through some of the experiences they had without totally imploding (I'm sure they came close several times), or without becoming a rock and roll cliche.

Pretty stellar that they're celebrating 25 yrs this year... I remember when Sonic Youth got to 20 yrs and some of the comments Ed made about that milestone for them and how incredible it was, and now PJ is at 25. That really is a testament to their efforts at well-being, and having lives outside of the band (despite what Jeff says on Sirius ), and trying hard not to give too far into the mania and madness that surrounded them now for decades.

Hey, they haven't had a wildly commercially successful album in how long? Yet they sold out 2 nights at Fenway and Wrigley... they've done so much right.

And even the things they did wrong in their early days... were about as right as they could've managed, which makes them not wrong. Just learning opportunities...

JH6056

killmoretrout said:

Found a 'mosquito bite' link on Youtube -> https://youtu.be/bLHTfKueFL4

I hadn't seen or heard that one before. Beyond cringe-worthy.

That bro-wave shit is pretty reprehensible, and I'd be embarrassed if I were EV on that one, but I do think it's a pretty far outlier (unless I'm being naive). I don't believe that drunk dude is the band or the guy that has put in decades of activism for women's rights, the environment, encouraging voter turnout/registration, fighting monolithic, monopolistic corporations, supporting LBGT rights, etc., etc. They've earned my respect over the years on a lot of fronts.

In summary: OP was pretty dead-on.

I was at that show. I think in his frantic effort to dissuade that from "becoming a thing" as we say now, he just went ALL THE WAY OFF. It was sexist in many ways, but I also think he didn't want ANYONE to mistake him or the band for people who wanted that to happen at their shows or who would respond to that. Also, to be fair, this was either at the same time or soon after Guns and Roses had made a habit of staring their shows an hour or more late, which led to literally an hour plus of camera crews roaming stadiums and finding women to badger into flashing their boobs. For more than an hour this was 'entertainment" and it tainted a lot of shows around that time. So I also always took his hostility towards this act as a bigger hostility to that whole trend.

Not that that makes the specifics of this any less cringe-worthy, but I think it was about a whole lot more than just "Eww, I'm going ot shame you".

KV4053

JH6056 said:

killmoretrout said:

Found a 'mosquito bite' link on Youtube -> https://youtu.be/bLHTfKueFL4

I hadn't seen or heard that one before. Beyond cringe-worthy.

That bro-wave shit is pretty reprehensible, and I'd be embarrassed if I were EV on that one, but I do think it's a pretty far outlier (unless I'm being naive). I don't believe that drunk dude is the band or the guy that has put in decades of activism for women's rights, the environment, encouraging voter turnout/registration, fighting monolithic, monopolistic corporations, supporting LBGT rights, etc., etc. They've earned my respect over the years on a lot of fronts.

In summary: OP was pretty dead-on.

I was at that show. I think in his frantic effort to dissuade that from "becoming a thing" as we say now, he just went ALL THE WAY OFF. It was sexist in many ways, but I also think he didn't want ANYONE to mistake him or the band for people who wanted that to happen at their shows or who would respond to that. Also, to be fair, this was either at the same time or soon after Guns and Roses had made a habit of staring their shows an hour or more late, which led to literally an hour plus of camera crews roaming stadiums and finding women to badger into flashing their boobs. For more than an hour this was 'entertainment" and it tainted a lot of shows around that time. So I also always took his hostility towards this act as a bigger hostility to that whole trend.

Not that that makes the specifics of this any less cringe-worthy, but I think it was about a whole lot more than just "Eww, I'm going ot shame you".

You are 100% correct that this was on the heels of GNR and other concerts. Not sure if that played into it, but I recall at the time thinking how different he was from the hair band lead singers

Wma31394

I saw soundgarden at the aragon brawlroom, must have been 95 or 96...women were flashing their fun bags all over the place...i don't remember exact words but Cornell was promoting it...after all it is rock n roll right???

KV4053

This thread reminds me that I initially hated Soundgarden because Ben Shepherd spit on a fan in the front row at a show in April 1992 when PJ was opening for them. Don't get me wrong, I loved Soundgarden's music, but Ben's behavior was unacceptable. I still can't stand him because of that incident. Ben needed a wall built between him and the audience.