voter id requirements

PJfanwillneverleave1 · August 2016

Oh my god.
If you don't have ID you are shady.
Done and done.

oftenreading · August 2016

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
Oh my god.
If you don't have ID you are shady.
Done and done.

PJFan now officially outed as a 15 year old girl.

PJfanwillneverleave1 · August 2016

oftenreading said:

show previous quotes
PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
Oh my god.
If you don't have ID you are shady.
Done and done.
PJFan now officially outed as a 15 year old girl.

OK then.
I hope these homeless people that you deal with don't experience insults from you like that to me.

oftenreading · August 2016

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

show previous quotes
oftenreading said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
Oh my god.
If you don't have ID you are shady.
Done and done.
PJFan now officially outed as a 15 year old girl.
OK then.
I hope these homeless people that you deal with don't experience insults from you like that to me.

You know you're laughing.

Unless you really are a 15 year old girl, and then of course you're not. They have no sense of humour.

mace1229 · August 2016

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
Oh my god.
If you don't have ID you are shady.
Done and done.

Agree. The few I know without an ID are all trying to avoid taxes, child support, state fees or something else. Yes, it may take weeks or months to get the documentation if you don't have it, but it's not difficult. And how much more notice do you need for an election, it's pretty predictable when it's going to happen....not like they just decide to have it one morning.

rgambs · August 2016

mace1229 said:

show previous quotes
PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
Oh my god.
If you don't have ID you are shady.
Done and done.
Agree. The few I know without an ID are all trying to avoid taxes, child support, state fees or something else. Yes, it may take weeks or months to get the documentation if you don't have it, but it's not difficult. And how much more notice do you need for an election, it's pretty predictable when it's going to happen....not like they just decide to have it one morning.

Why is it so important to you that these ID laws be enacted in the face of a lack of evidence that they are needed?
The only reason you have provided is a childish, petty argument that boils down to "I have to have an ID so they should too".

mace1229 · August 2016

I never said "I have an ID so they should too." I did say you need an ID for EVERYTHING else, so why should voting be the exception where you don't have to prove who you are? And there's no valid reason not to have one. I don't buy into the it's too difficult for some. It's not, inconvenient maybe, but not difficult. And if you're poor, a $10 ID will last you 10 years.
There is little data on voter fraud because it is so incredibly easy to do it. All you need to register is a name and birthday (and I'm not even sure if those are cross referenced to make sure that person even exists-given the fact dead people are registered I doubt it is). No SSN, address, or anything else is needed. In a study DOI agents were able to register and vote 97% of the time using a deceased name or name of a felon in prison. You can literally go to a cemetery and write down 100 names and birthdays and expect nearly all of them to work.
But aside from potential fraud, I just don't get why it's an unreasonable request. heck, just bring in a copy of last year's tax return would be good enough-I mean since in a previous argument someone said if they pay taxes they should vote, ID or not.

seanwon · August 2016

rgambs said:
It's don't know how it works everywhere, but I have to register to vote once (for free), and if I vote regularly I don't have to register again. When I vote, they check my name off the list. If someone else voted using my name, they would know it and have evidence to show it. No ID required.
No ID needed.

Same here. I have never been asked to provide an ID to vote. They ask for my name and they flip to a page in a book which has a photocopy of my signature on it, and I have to sign my name under the photocopy of the signature. No ID required to prove that I am who I claim to be.

jeffbr · August 2016

seanwon said:

show previous quotes
rgambs said:
It's don't know how it works everywhere, but I have to register to vote once (for free), and if I vote regularly I don't have to register again. When I vote, they check my name off the list. If someone else voted using my name, they would know it and have evidence to show it. No ID required.
No ID needed.
Same here. I have never been asked to provide an ID to vote. They ask for my name and they flip to a page in a book which has a photocopy of my signature on it, and I have to sign my name under the photocopy of the signature. No ID required to prove that I am who I claim to be.

Where did they get the photocopy of your signature?

seanwon · August 2016

jeffbr said:

show previous quotes
seanwon said:

rgambs said:
It's don't know how it works everywhere, but I have to register to vote once (for free), and if I vote regularly I don't have to register again. When I vote, they check my name off the list. If someone else voted using my name, they would know it and have evidence to show it. No ID required.
No ID needed.
Same here. I have never been asked to provide an ID to vote. They ask for my name and they flip to a page in a book which has a photocopy of my signature on it, and I have to sign my name under the photocopy of the signature. No ID required to prove that I am who I claim to be.
Where did they get the photocopy of your signature?

Good question, I don't know. From the first time I voted perhaps and there was no photocopy then? Or maybe I had to sign something when I registered to vote? All that was about 20 years ago, so my memory is a little foggy.

jeffbr · August 2016

seanwon said:

show previous quotes
jeffbr said:

seanwon said:

rgambs said:
It's don't know how it works everywhere, but I have to register to vote once (for free), and if I vote regularly I don't have to register again. When I vote, they check my name off the list. If someone else voted using my name, they would know it and have evidence to show it. No ID required.
No ID needed.
Same here. I have never been asked to provide an ID to vote. They ask for my name and they flip to a page in a book which has a photocopy of my signature on it, and I have to sign my name under the photocopy of the signature. No ID required to prove that I am who I claim to be.
Where did they get the photocopy of your signature?
Good question, I don't know. From the first time I voted perhaps and there was no photocopy then? Or maybe I had to sign something when I registered to vote? All that was about 20 years ago, so my memory is a little foggy.

Yeah, I was just curious. I didn't know if they grabbed it from a voter registration form, or used the state drivers license./ID database to get the signature.

mace1229 · August 2016

Get it probably from a driver's license.
And That is irrelevant anyway.
Let's assume that copying a signature laid out in front of you is good enough proof (which it isn't for every other industry, but let's just assume it is).The potential for fraud isn't someone pretending to be you after you register. The fraud comes from registering under a different name who is not going to be registering themselves (dead, in jail, etc). Which has happened, although reportedly rare since it goes undetected 97% of the time so of course the data suggests it is rare.
And since virtually no information is needed to register, if you don't provide a driver's license number (which is optional) when you register a fake name, there is no signature to compare it to.
I just don't get why an ID is required to use virtually everything else and that is okay, but becomes too difficult when voting. There is not a valid reason as an adult to not have an ID, and if you chose to not have one to [most likely] avoid legal responsibilities, then that was a choice you made. Despite previous comments, they are incredibly easy and cheap to obtain. Just because it takes weeks to process doesn't mean it's difficult.

PJ_Soul · August 2016

mace1229 said:
Get it probably from a driver's license.
And That is irrelevant anyway.
Let's assume that copying a signature laid out in front of you is good enough proof (which it isn't for every other industry, but let's just assume it is).The potential for fraud isn't someone pretending to be you after you register. The fraud comes from registering under a different name who is not going to be registering themselves (dead, in jail, etc). Which has happened, although reportedly rare since it goes undetected 97% of the time so of course the data suggests it is rare.
And since virtually no information is needed to register, if you don't provide a driver's license number (which is optional) when you register a fake name, there is no signature to compare it to.
I just don't get why an ID is required to use virtually everything else and that is okay, but becomes too difficult when voting. There is not a valid reason as an adult to not have an ID, and if you chose to not have one to [most likely] avoid legal responsibilities, then that was a choice you made. Despite previous comments, they are incredibly easy and cheap to obtain. Just because it takes weeks to process doesn't mean it's difficult.

An ID is required to use virtually everything else? What do you mean?

mace1229 · August 2016

PJ_Soul said:

show previous quotes
mace1229 said:
Get it probably from a driver's license.
And That is irrelevant anyway.
Let's assume that copying a signature laid out in front of you is good enough proof (which it isn't for every other industry, but let's just assume it is).The potential for fraud isn't someone pretending to be you after you register. The fraud comes from registering under a different name who is not going to be registering themselves (dead, in jail, etc). Which has happened, although reportedly rare since it goes undetected 97% of the time so of course the data suggests it is rare.
And since virtually no information is needed to register, if you don't provide a driver's license number (which is optional) when you register a fake name, there is no signature to compare it to.
I just don't get why an ID is required to use virtually everything else and that is okay, but becomes too difficult when voting. There is not a valid reason as an adult to not have an ID, and if you chose to not have one to [most likely] avoid legal responsibilities, then that was a choice you made. Despite previous comments, they are incredibly easy and cheap to obtain. Just because it takes weeks to process doesn't mean it's difficult.
An ID is required to use virtually everything else? What do you mean?

Virtually anything that is tied to your name anyway.
To cash a check, open a bank account, use health insurance, use a credit card, travel, book a motel, rent a car, drive a car, even renting a movie, having a phone plan, renting an apartment or home, buying anything on layaway or financing, get a loan, getting a tax permit just to name off the top of my head.
What type of job does someone have if they don't need an ID? Many jobs require direct deposit. If not they write you a check, how do you cash it? Or are you getting paid under the table to avoid something? Or maybe you run your own business and sell art on the sidewalk-you need a tax license for that.

jeffbr · August 2016

mace1229 said:

show previous quotes
PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:
Get it probably from a driver's license.
And That is irrelevant anyway.
Let's assume that copying a signature laid out in front of you is good enough proof (which it isn't for every other industry, but let's just assume it is).The potential for fraud isn't someone pretending to be you after you register. The fraud comes from registering under a different name who is not going to be registering themselves (dead, in jail, etc). Which has happened, although reportedly rare since it goes undetected 97% of the time so of course the data suggests it is rare.
And since virtually no information is needed to register, if you don't provide a driver's license number (which is optional) when you register a fake name, there is no signature to compare it to.
I just don't get why an ID is required to use virtually everything else and that is okay, but becomes too difficult when voting. There is not a valid reason as an adult to not have an ID, and if you chose to not have one to [most likely] avoid legal responsibilities, then that was a choice you made. Despite previous comments, they are incredibly easy and cheap to obtain. Just because it takes weeks to process doesn't mean it's difficult.
An ID is required to use virtually everything else? What do you mean?
Virtually anything that is tied to your name anyway.
To cash a check, open a bank account, use health insurance, use a credit card, travel, book a motel, rent a car, drive a car, even renting a movie, having a phone plan, renting an apartment or home, buying anything on layaway or financing, get a loan, getting a tax permit just to name off the top of my head.
What type of job does someone have if they don't need an ID? Many jobs require direct deposit. If not they write you a check, how do you cash it? Or are you getting paid under the table to avoid something? Or maybe you run your own business and sell art on the sidewalk-you need a tax license for that.

I guess this is where I don't understand the push back regarding requiring IDs to vote. If someone doesn't have and can't acquire an ID, how do they even function in today's society at all? It seems to me they would have bigger problems to worry about than whether or not they can vote. I'm not passionate one way or the other about voter ID laws. I don't believe voter fraud is a huge problem, but I don't believe an ID requirement is an onerous barrier either, at least for anyone who wishes to function as a member of society. If they don't wish to function that way, why are they interested in voting? Perhaps if there are voter ID laws, there could be provisions within the laws to enable people under a certain income level to get free or subsidized IDs. If they're low income and on government assistance already, how do they get their food stamps / EBT cards without some form of ID? IDs are required for just about everything these days. People passionately arguing against requiring IDs to vote, are also arguing that the ID-less person should continue to function without access to all services and benefits provided to those with IDs. Instead of enabling their non-participation in society, perhaps we should be encouraging them to jump on board.

PJ_Soul · August 2016

mace1229 said:

show previous quotes
PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:
Get it probably from a driver's license.
And That is irrelevant anyway.
Let's assume that copying a signature laid out in front of you is good enough proof (which it isn't for every other industry, but let's just assume it is).The potential for fraud isn't someone pretending to be you after you register. The fraud comes from registering under a different name who is not going to be registering themselves (dead, in jail, etc). Which has happened, although reportedly rare since it goes undetected 97% of the time so of course the data suggests it is rare.
And since virtually no information is needed to register, if you don't provide a driver's license number (which is optional) when you register a fake name, there is no signature to compare it to.
I just don't get why an ID is required to use virtually everything else and that is okay, but becomes too difficult when voting. There is not a valid reason as an adult to not have an ID, and if you chose to not have one to [most likely] avoid legal responsibilities, then that was a choice you made. Despite previous comments, they are incredibly easy and cheap to obtain. Just because it takes weeks to process doesn't mean it's difficult.
An ID is required to use virtually everything else? What do you mean?
Virtually anything that is tied to your name anyway.
To cash a check, open a bank account, use health insurance, use a credit card, travel, book a motel, rent a car, drive a car, even renting a movie, having a phone plan, renting an apartment or home, buying anything on layaway or financing, get a loan, getting a tax permit just to name off the top of my head.
What type of job does someone have if they don't need an ID? Many jobs require direct deposit. If not they write you a check, how do you cash it? Or are you getting paid under the table to avoid something? Or maybe you run your own business and sell art on the sidewalk-you need a tax license for that.

Yeah, but those are all services and related to purchases and money. I don't see why voting and any of your examples should have anything to do with one another. Homeless people who panhandle are eligible voters. People who live off the grid are eligible voters. People who sleep on friends' couches, those who got any of the things you're talking about and THEN lost their ID or let it expire.... again, 25,000,000 people do in fact manage to survive without a license. It's not impossible. Even for me, since I live car-free, the only time I've needed to use my ID since I last left the country was to pick up concert tickets at will call, and those few glorious times when I got ID'd at the liquor store.

PJ_Soul · August 2016

jeffbr said:

show previous quotes
mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:
Get it probably from a driver's license.
And That is irrelevant anyway.
Let's assume that copying a signature laid out in front of you is good enough proof (which it isn't for every other industry, but let's just assume it is).The potential for fraud isn't someone pretending to be you after you register. The fraud comes from registering under a different name who is not going to be registering themselves (dead, in jail, etc). Which has happened, although reportedly rare since it goes undetected 97% of the time so of course the data suggests it is rare.
And since virtually no information is needed to register, if you don't provide a driver's license number (which is optional) when you register a fake name, there is no signature to compare it to.
I just don't get why an ID is required to use virtually everything else and that is okay, but becomes too difficult when voting. There is not a valid reason as an adult to not have an ID, and if you chose to not have one to [most likely] avoid legal responsibilities, then that was a choice you made. Despite previous comments, they are incredibly easy and cheap to obtain. Just because it takes weeks to process doesn't mean it's difficult.
An ID is required to use virtually everything else? What do you mean?
Virtually anything that is tied to your name anyway.
To cash a check, open a bank account, use health insurance, use a credit card, travel, book a motel, rent a car, drive a car, even renting a movie, having a phone plan, renting an apartment or home, buying anything on layaway or financing, get a loan, getting a tax permit just to name off the top of my head.
What type of job does someone have if they don't need an ID? Many jobs require direct deposit. If not they write you a check, how do you cash it? Or are you getting paid under the table to avoid something? Or maybe you run your own business and sell art on the sidewalk-you need a tax license for that.
I guess this is where I don't understand the push back regarding requiring IDs to vote. If someone doesn't have and can't acquire an ID, how do they even function in today's society at all? It seems to me they would have bigger problems to worry about than whether or not they can vote. I'm not passionate one way or the other about voter ID laws. I don't believe voter fraud is a huge problem, but I don't believe an ID requirement is an onerous barrier either, at least for anyone who wishes to function as a member of society. If they don't wish to function that way, why are they interested in voting? Perhaps if there are voter ID laws, there could be provisions within the laws to enable people under a certain income level to get free or subsidized IDs. If they're low income and on government assistance already, how do they get their food stamps / EBT cards without some form of ID? IDs are required for just about everything these days. People passionately arguing against requiring IDs to vote, are also arguing that the ID-less person should continue to function without access to all services and benefits provided to those with IDs. Instead of enabling their non-participation in society, perhaps we should be encouraging them to jump on board.

Forgive me if I've got the wrong person, but didn't you say in another thread that you pretty much reject government intervention? That you lean somewhat Libertarian? Nothing very libertarian about forcing people to pay for government issued ID. 25,000,000 without ID... and who gives a fuck what their circumstances are so that they don't have any??? What difference does it make why?? They are still citizens. I also think it's very presumptive to assume that anyone without an ID is basically a useless, nonfunctioning member of society.

jeffbr · August 2016

PJ_Soul said:

show previous quotes
jeffbr said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:
Get it probably from a driver's license.
And That is irrelevant anyway.
Let's assume that copying a signature laid out in front of you is good enough proof (which it isn't for every other industry, but let's just assume it is).The potential for fraud isn't someone pretending to be you after you register. The fraud comes from registering under a different name who is not going to be registering themselves (dead, in jail, etc). Which has happened, although reportedly rare since it goes undetected 97% of the time so of course the data suggests it is rare.
And since virtually no information is needed to register, if you don't provide a driver's license number (which is optional) when you register a fake name, there is no signature to compare it to.
I just don't get why an ID is required to use virtually everything else and that is okay, but becomes too difficult when voting. There is not a valid reason as an adult to not have an ID, and if you chose to not have one to [most likely] avoid legal responsibilities, then that was a choice you made. Despite previous comments, they are incredibly easy and cheap to obtain. Just because it takes weeks to process doesn't mean it's difficult.
An ID is required to use virtually everything else? What do you mean?
Virtually anything that is tied to your name anyway.
To cash a check, open a bank account, use health insurance, use a credit card, travel, book a motel, rent a car, drive a car, even renting a movie, having a phone plan, renting an apartment or home, buying anything on layaway or financing, get a loan, getting a tax permit just to name off the top of my head.
What type of job does someone have if they don't need an ID? Many jobs require direct deposit. If not they write you a check, how do you cash it? Or are you getting paid under the table to avoid something? Or maybe you run your own business and sell art on the sidewalk-you need a tax license for that.
I guess this is where I don't understand the push back regarding requiring IDs to vote. If someone doesn't have and can't acquire an ID, how do they even function in today's society at all? It seems to me they would have bigger problems to worry about than whether or not they can vote. I'm not passionate one way or the other about voter ID laws. I don't believe voter fraud is a huge problem, but I don't believe an ID requirement is an onerous barrier either, at least for anyone who wishes to function as a member of society. If they don't wish to function that way, why are they interested in voting? Perhaps if there are voter ID laws, there could be provisions within the laws to enable people under a certain income level to get free or subsidized IDs. If they're low income and on government assistance already, how do they get their food stamps / EBT cards without some form of ID? IDs are required for just about everything these days. People passionately arguing against requiring IDs to vote, are also arguing that the ID-less person should continue to function without access to all services and benefits provided to those with IDs. Instead of enabling their non-participation in society, perhaps we should be encouraging them to jump on board.
Forgive me if I've got the wrong person, but didn't you say in another thread that you pretty much reject government intervention? That you lean somewhat Libertarian? Nothing very libertarian about forcing people to pay for government issued ID. 25,000,000 without ID... and who gives a fuck what their circumstances are so that they don't have any??? What difference does it make why?? They are still citizens. I also think it's very presumptive to assume that anyone without an ID is basically a useless, nonfunctioning member of society.

Well, I am libertarian leaning. But I'm also rational, and understand that there are things required of us to function as a society. I'm not saying that anyone without an ID is a non-functioning member of society. I am saying that someone without an ID is not on a traditional path, and don't understand why they'd want to vote anyway. If they don't have a bank account, don't have a job, don't have a car, don't get government assistance, etc... then why vote? Sounds like they've either checked out, or aren't interested in joining in the first place. If it is strictly a financial issue that keeps them from having an ID, why don't we have provisions to assist them in obtaining one? Not just for voting, but for participating in the real world. It would make their lives easier all the way around. Again, I'm not trying to be exclusionary. I'm more interested in helping them and bringing them into the fold. It is the people arguing against needing an ID that are enabling them to continue living without access to the benefits at their disposal if only they had an ID.

EM194007 · August 2016

PJ_Soul said:

Yeah, but those are all services and related to purchases and money. I don't see why voting and any of your examples should have anything to do with one another. Homeless people who panhandle are eligible voters. People who live off the grid are eligible voters. People who sleep on friends' couches, those who got any of the things you're talking about and THEN lost their ID or let it expire.... again, 25,000,000 people do in fact manage to survive without a license. It's not impossible. Even for me, since I live car-free, the only time I've needed to use my ID since I last left the country was to pick up concert tickets at will call, and those few glorious times when I got ID'd at the liquor store.

Avoided it the first time around, let's try again.

EM194007 said:

show previous quotes
PJ_Soul said:
I really don't see how that matters. People are are totally irresponsible deadbeats (for whatever reason) have a right to vote too.
What about Canada?

http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=vot&dir=ids&document=index&lang=e

Why should people in the US show NOTHING to vote? Which you support!! But in Canada, that isn't how it works to vote.

PJ_Soul · August 2016

jeffbr said:

show previous quotes
PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:
Get it probably from a driver's license.
And That is irrelevant anyway.
Let's assume that copying a signature laid out in front of you is good enough proof (which it isn't for every other industry, but let's just assume it is).The potential for fraud isn't someone pretending to be you after you register. The fraud comes from registering under a different name who is not going to be registering themselves (dead, in jail, etc). Which has happened, although reportedly rare since it goes undetected 97% of the time so of course the data suggests it is rare.
And since virtually no information is needed to register, if you don't provide a driver's license number (which is optional) when you register a fake name, there is no signature to compare it to.
I just don't get why an ID is required to use virtually everything else and that is okay, but becomes too difficult when voting. There is not a valid reason as an adult to not have an ID, and if you chose to not have one to [most likely] avoid legal responsibilities, then that was a choice you made. Despite previous comments, they are incredibly easy and cheap to obtain. Just because it takes weeks to process doesn't mean it's difficult.
An ID is required to use virtually everything else? What do you mean?
Virtually anything that is tied to your name anyway.
To cash a check, open a bank account, use health insurance, use a credit card, travel, book a motel, rent a car, drive a car, even renting a movie, having a phone plan, renting an apartment or home, buying anything on layaway or financing, get a loan, getting a tax permit just to name off the top of my head.
What type of job does someone have if they don't need an ID? Many jobs require direct deposit. If not they write you a check, how do you cash it? Or are you getting paid under the table to avoid something? Or maybe you run your own business and sell art on the sidewalk-you need a tax license for that.
I guess this is where I don't understand the push back regarding requiring IDs to vote. If someone doesn't have and can't acquire an ID, how do they even function in today's society at all? It seems to me they would have bigger problems to worry about than whether or not they can vote. I'm not passionate one way or the other about voter ID laws. I don't believe voter fraud is a huge problem, but I don't believe an ID requirement is an onerous barrier either, at least for anyone who wishes to function as a member of society. If they don't wish to function that way, why are they interested in voting? Perhaps if there are voter ID laws, there could be provisions within the laws to enable people under a certain income level to get free or subsidized IDs. If they're low income and on government assistance already, how do they get their food stamps / EBT cards without some form of ID? IDs are required for just about everything these days. People passionately arguing against requiring IDs to vote, are also arguing that the ID-less person should continue to function without access to all services and benefits provided to those with IDs. Instead of enabling their non-participation in society, perhaps we should be encouraging them to jump on board.
Forgive me if I've got the wrong person, but didn't you say in another thread that you pretty much reject government intervention? That you lean somewhat Libertarian? Nothing very libertarian about forcing people to pay for government issued ID. 25,000,000 without ID... and who gives a fuck what their circumstances are so that they don't have any??? What difference does it make why?? They are still citizens. I also think it's very presumptive to assume that anyone without an ID is basically a useless, nonfunctioning member of society.
Well, I am libertarian leaning. But I'm also rational, and understand that there are things required of us to function as a society. I'm not saying that anyone without an ID is a non-functioning member of society. I am saying that someone without an ID is not on a traditional path, and don't understand why they'd want to vote anyway. If they don't have a bank account, don't have a job, don't have a car, don't get government assistance, etc... then why vote? Sounds like they've either checked out, or aren't interested in joining in the first place. If it is strictly a financial issue that keeps them from having an ID, why don't we have provisions to assist them in obtaining one? Not just for voting, but for participating in the real world. It would make their lives easier all the way around. Again, I'm not trying to be exclusionary. I'm more interested in helping them and bringing them into the fold. It is the people arguing against needing an ID that are enabling them to continue living without access to the benefits at their disposal if only they had an ID.

Well you don't need ID to maintain a bank account that you set up at a time when you did have ID. Same goes for many, many things, including having a job and property ownership. I mean, when was the last time your employer asked you for ID? I personally haven't been asked to produce ID for my employer ever, not even when I was hired. But even if they did ask for that when I was hired, I've had the same employer for 15 years. and they have been depositing my pay into the same bank account that I had when I was hired too. I could have allowed all of my ID to expire during that time. Just because someone doesn't have ID it doesn't mean they never had any in their life. But again, either way, I really don't see why it matters. I don't see why anyone gives a shit how difficult it might make life if someone doesn't have ID. Maybe they don't want ID. Maybe they can't afford to get it (I think it's pretty fucked up that the government would demand that people have ID to be eligible voters and then charge money for the ID). Maybe they are too lazy to bother getting it. Maybe they don't want to the government to have any info on them. None of those reasons seem to be anyone's business IMO. They are still citizens.
Seriously, I could very easily live indefinitely without ID right now. As I said, the only time I've needed it was when I've left the country and when some idiot thought I might not be old enough to buy booze, and when I picked up concert tix. I don't even need it to vote. I am already registered, and have been for years and years. As long as I file my taxes, the government NEVER has to see my ID unless I'm going through customs. Even at the polls, if memory serves, they just look at the registered voter card that I am mailed before an election.

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