Why all the killing?
Here's the question that came to my mind today:
If black people in America were not being killed without reason by some (emphasis some) law enforcement officers or killed when other measures could have been taken first, would the tragic shooting deaths of five police officers who we're just doing their job in Dallas on 7/7/16 have occurred? (Don't read between the lines. I'm just asking the question.)
Comments
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Here are some facts - almost 3/4 of police shootings (72 percent) in 2015 involved a race other than black.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/
Now, how many violent, high risk altercations do police officers have every year? I'd imagine the majority of those end peacefully. Sometimes the officers have no choice, and yes, sometimes the officers make mistakes and a tragedy occurs. You are dealing with high risk, high stress situations; human error will play a factor. But unfortunately that doesn't fit into a inflammatory narrative.0 -
Because we're human.will myself to find a home, a home within myself
we will find a way, we will find our place0 -
Brian, to answer your simple question: No, this specific event would not have occurred were it not for the perceived injust murder of a number of black Americans. There is a clear and direct correlation and obvious cause and effect
That is the simple answer to a simple question0 -
Too many answers, not enough question!
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
The question on my mind has to do with whether or not it is possible for there to be a shift in the American attitude that not only do we have a right to our opinions, but also have a right that our opinions be...right? I read the posts from people who live in other countries as they try to explain other avenues of thinking and we just go on explaining our side of things instead of listening. Do any other Americans feel that way when reading posts ,especially in AMT? Americans are hard-headed, are we not?0
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Thanks for understanding the thread concept and excellent question, OffSheGoes. We Americans don't always listen well and listening seems like a great place to start to make peace among ourselves and our neighbors. How can we make that happen?OffSheGoes35 said:The question on my mind has to do with whether or not it is possible for there to be a shift in the American attitude that not only do we have a right to our opinions, but also have a right that our opinions be...right? I read the posts from people who live in other countries as they try to explain other avenues of thinking and we just go on explaining our side of things instead of listening. Do any other Americans feel that way when reading posts ,especially in AMT? Americans are hard-headed, are we not?
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Ok Brian, you want questions? As an Irish girl, your culture is completely incomprehensible to me, so here are my questions regarding America
Why does mental illness lead to violence and murder to a far greater extent than in other Western countries?
Why is there such distrust of government and figures of authority in general amongst citizens?
Why do citizens seem to have no faith in the ability of law enforcement to protect them and believe the answer to this is to have a fully armed citizenry?
Is there any true sense of community in America? Do you feel a bond of kinship with your fellow American that gives their life added value to you?
Does it mean anything to be American or has the lack of shared heritage led to a fractured society where your fellow American means no more to you than a citizen of any other nation?
Do Americans see violence and premature death as simply a part of modern life? Have you become so desensitised to it as to barely register news stories concerning such incidents?
Do Americans ever look at their country and culture through objective eyes and view it in relation to other countries? Do they see aspects of other countries which they envy and do they recognise the faults of their own country?
Do Americans believe your country has the ability to change? If you have no faith in your government, what possible hope for you have for bringing positive change?
If indeed there is no faith in government, what exactly is it that the average American wants? Is there actually any clear view on the kind of country you want to have?
There seems to be an acknowledgement of a serious problem with racism. In a country where everyone but the native Americans can trace their roots to a foreign country, how can this be? How can a supposedly advanced country have such horrifically outdated views towards black people in particular?
When parents get that first sight of their newborn child and as they watch them grow up, do they envisage them buying a gun in preparation for the eventuality of them being the victim of a violent crime? Does this thought not sicken them and mobilise the nation to change their children's future?
I could go on but I'd likely piss people off...Post edited by jnimhaoileoin on0 -
Let us be pissed off for a while jnimhaoileoin. We are resilient. And let's hope that if we are pissed of by these excellent questions, eventually we will begin to think about them and perhaps we will take your questions seriously enough to find the answers to which they might lead. This is exactly the kind of stuff we Americans (and probably other first world people's) would do well to ponder.jnimhaoileoin said:Ok Brian, you want questions? As an Irish girl, your culture is completely incomprehensible to me, so here are my questions regarding America
Why does mental illness lead to violence and murder to a far greater extent than in other Western countries?
Why is there such distrust of government and figures of authority in general amongst citizens?
Why do citizens seem to have no faith in the ability of law enforcement to protect them and believe the answer to this is to have a fully armed citizenry?
Is there any true sense of community in America? Do you feel a bond of kinship with your fellow American that gives their life added value to you?
Does it mean anything to be American or has the lack of shared heritage led to a fractured society where your fellow American means no more to you than a citizen of any other nation?
Do Americans see violence and premature death as simply a part of modern life? Have you become so desensitised to it as to barely register news stories concerning such incidents?
Do Americans ever look at their country and culture through objective eyes and view it in relation to other countries? Do they see aspects of other countries which they envy and do they recognise the faults of their own country?
Do Americans believe your country has the ability to change? If you have no faith in your government, what possible hope for you have for bringing positive change?
If indeed there is no faith in government, what exactly is it that the average American wants? Is there actually any clear view on the kind of country you want to have?
There seems to be an acknowledgement of a serious problem with racism. In a country where everyone but the native Americans can trace their roots to a foreign country, how can this be? How can a supposedly advanced country have such horrifically outdated views towards black people in particular?
When parents get that first sight of their newborn child and as they watch them grow up, do they envisage them buying a gun in preparation for the eventuality of them being the victim of a violent crime? Does this thought not sicken them and mobilise the nation to change their children's future?
I could go on but I'd likely piss people off...
Thank you!"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Well, I just want to thank you brianlux, because this thread is a great opportunity to develop those listening skills we just spoke of! We just got some great questions to ponder. We have a place to start.
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My brother and his family live in Virginia, so my concern for America is not simply the abstract interest of a remote observer. From a psychological and anthropological point of view, I am also interested in the reasons why the country is the way it is. Could it even be that this is the fate of countries the size of America, Russia and China? I honestly think that a sense of community and kinship is a key factor in the comparitive peace of most European countries. We are far slower to consider violence against a fellow countryman or woman because we are more united as a nation. It's 4.30am here so I'm in danger of going off on a rambling soliloquy here...brianlux said:
Let us be pissed off for a while jnimhaoileoin. We are resilient. And let's hope that if we are pissed of by these excellent questions, eventually we will begin to think about them and perhaps we will take your questions seriously enough to find the answers to which they might lead. This is exactly the kind of stuff we Americans (and probably other first world people's) would do well to ponder.jnimhaoileoin said:Ok Brian, you want questions? As an Irish girl, your culture is completely incomprehensible to me, so here are my questions regarding America
Why does mental illness lead to violence and murder to a far greater extent than in other Western countries?
Why is there such distrust of government and figures of authority in general amongst citizens?
Why do citizens seem to have no faith in the ability of law enforcement to protect them and believe the answer to this is to have a fully armed citizenry?
Is there any true sense of community in America? Do you feel a bond of kinship with your fellow American that gives their life added value to you?
Does it mean anything to be American or has the lack of shared heritage led to a fractured society where your fellow American means no more to you than a citizen of any other nation?
Do Americans see violence and premature death as simply a part of modern life? Have you become so desensitised to it as to barely register news stories concerning such incidents?
Do Americans ever look at their country and culture through objective eyes and view it in relation to other countries? Do they see aspects of other countries which they envy and do they recognise the faults of their own country?
Do Americans believe your country has the ability to change? If you have no faith in your government, what possible hope for you have for bringing positive change?
If indeed there is no faith in government, what exactly is it that the average American wants? Is there actually any clear view on the kind of country you want to have?
There seems to be an acknowledgement of a serious problem with racism. In a country where everyone but the native Americans can trace their roots to a foreign country, how can this be? How can a supposedly advanced country have such horrifically outdated views towards black people in particular?
When parents get that first sight of their newborn child and as they watch them grow up, do they envisage them buying a gun in preparation for the eventuality of them being the victim of a violent crime? Does this thought not sicken them and mobilise the nation to change their children's future?
I could go on but I'd likely piss people off...
Thank you!0 -
OffSheGoes35 said:
Well, I just want to thank you brianlux, because this thread is a great opportunity to develop those listening skills we just spoke of! We just got some great questions to ponder. We have a place to start.
Wow, great point. So maybe scaling back, being more community focused would go along way. Food for thought!jnimhaoileoin said:
My brother and his family live in Virginia, so my concern for America is not simply the abstract interest of a remote observer. From a psychological and anthropological point of view, I am also interested in the reasons why the country is the way it is. Could it even be that this is the fate of countries the size of America, Russia and China? I honestly think that a sense of community and kinship is a key factor in the comparitive peace of most European countries. We are far slower to consider violence against a fellow countryman or woman because we are more united as a nation. It's 4.30am here so I'm in danger of going off on a rambling soliloquy here...brianlux said:
Let us be pissed off for a while jnimhaoileoin. We are resilient. And let's hope that if we are pissed of by these excellent questions, eventually we will begin to think about them and perhaps we will take your questions seriously enough to find the answers to which they might lead. This is exactly the kind of stuff we Americans (and probably other first world people's) would do well to ponder.jnimhaoileoin said:Ok Brian, you want questions? As an Irish girl, your culture is completely incomprehensible to me, so here are my questions regarding America
Why does mental illness lead to violence and murder to a far greater extent than in other Western countries?
Why is there such distrust of government and figures of authority in general amongst citizens?
Why do citizens seem to have no faith in the ability of law enforcement to protect them and believe the answer to this is to have a fully armed citizenry?
Is there any true sense of community in America? Do you feel a bond of kinship with your fellow American that gives their life added value to you?
Does it mean anything to be American or has the lack of shared heritage led to a fractured society where your fellow American means no more to you than a citizen of any other nation?
Do Americans see violence and premature death as simply a part of modern life? Have you become so desensitised to it as to barely register news stories concerning such incidents?
Do Americans ever look at their country and culture through objective eyes and view it in relation to other countries? Do they see aspects of other countries which they envy and do they recognise the faults of their own country?
Do Americans believe your country has the ability to change? If you have no faith in your government, what possible hope for you have for bringing positive change?
If indeed there is no faith in government, what exactly is it that the average American wants? Is there actually any clear view on the kind of country you want to have?
There seems to be an acknowledgement of a serious problem with racism. In a country where everyone but the native Americans can trace their roots to a foreign country, how can this be? How can a supposedly advanced country have such horrifically outdated views towards black people in particular?
When parents get that first sight of their newborn child and as they watch them grow up, do they envisage them buying a gun in preparation for the eventuality of them being the victim of a violent crime? Does this thought not sicken them and mobilise the nation to change their children's future?
I could go on but I'd likely piss people off...
Thank you!"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Good morning all, I have not read through this thread or even Brian's original post. I just saw the title and a line that I saw briefly last night from another thread and it stuck with through the night at work.....that line is......
Where do we go from here? It sounds like a line from a lyric from long ago song in the 70's that I used to say.
Ok, where do we go from here....? I have a thought process of if we have a problem come up with a solution, some may make sense some may not. I'll tackle this problem which is large from the black prospective. Clearly what that young man did in killing those police officers in revenge/anger ISIN'T the solution. What will probably come from those shootings will be officers who may not hesitate to protect themselves and their fellow officers. A officer may say "don't you move" and just an eye blink and he may feel threatened and that doesn't matter if you are black or white. So the end result of that shooting affects us all.
So solutions....if at sometime in your experiences you have been through police brutality or profiling BECOME part of that problem. What I mean is become a police officer, probation officer or a transit officer. Then do so with complete integrity by that I mean if one of you fellow officers is clearly doing something unlawful have the courage to speak up, end it or go to your superiors. I know this very very difficult which probably takes far more courage than Ali refusing to fight a war in Vietnam. However, sometimes in this life it takes ONE then another then another to break this divide that seems to get further and further between races. In time the community will look up to you and may say that man or woman is trying to make a positive difference that benefits us all in the end.
Another solution.....if in your past you have come across injustice in the court or falsely accused of a crime become a lawyer.....encourage your children to become lawyers. Do so with extreme INTEGRITY to put forth as an example of one who is there to preserve justice and put an end to the injustices we ALL may face from time to time.
I'd rather try concepts such as these rather than violence with force, it gets us nowhere. In fact it ends up putting us all backwards to a time in American history where things race wise was far worse. America does not ever need to go there been there done that.....lets expound on positive things/solutions to move this country forward so we can live in harmony and peace.
As far as a white perspective crap my brain hurts I'm STILL trying to figure out what song that rock lyric comes from......Where Do We Go From Here? Where's Brian or Who Princess when one needs them?
Peace to all.*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)0 -
Great ideas, g under p.
Why isn't there more support and less critiquing from whites when it comes to black protests? What I mean by that is, if we can all agree that Black Lives Matter, even if only under the blanket statement that All Lives Matter... why can't there be a white movement on behalf of black lives? Out of fear of repercussions? Welcome to their world.0 -
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Why can't we all just get along?0
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My question is: How does America turn around the collective apathy towards one another and induce collective empathy and love? Our media uses fear for control, we need to stop the collective fear and bring about love.0
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Along the lines of what I'm thinking! There needs to be more empathy and understanding, less division and looking at a group of people as 'different' when we are all the same - humans. No one is better than another. We need to help, not judge and oppress.OffSheGoes35 said:Great ideas, g under p.
Why isn't there more support and less critiquing from whites when it comes to black protests? What I mean by that is, if we can all agree that Black Lives Matter, even if only under the blanket statement that All Lives Matter... why can't there be a white movement on behalf of black lives? Out of fear of repercussions? Welcome to their world.0 -
^^It's like we've read each other's minds. 0
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OffSheGoes35 said:
^^It's like we've read each other's minds.
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Nope, the story behind why I would say.....where do we go from here? I was around 11 or 12 and when I would get in serious trouble with my mother and knew I was going to get it that's what I would say. I would say WE in that I would refer to me, myself and I was going to get a whooping big time. What was I going to do to get out of this mess I'm in.Free said:This is a great thread!
G - is it this?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SLi7Ljcy6n8
It's kind of coming back to me even though I've goggled it and I get today type songs. The next line went something like ...... ...... ..... And it rhymed with "here" ex fear or dear or clear. Help this is driving me NUTS!
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)0
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